Page 2 of 3
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 13 Jan 2022 17:20
by Labrev
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑13 Jan 2022 15:51
Well suppose he plays well in the playoffs.
One more good player that can't be resigned if the Packers keep AR.
Mercilus is actually one of the few vet guys who may be *more* likely to stick around if Rodgers also does. He's clearly aging and on the decline, so even if he looks really good in the next few weeks, I still doubt he will be offered more than (at best) a modest deal.
At least one of the Smiths is likely gone next year, if not both, even if we don't keep Rodgers. Mercilus is a guy we could bring back pretty cheaply while keeping an experienced veteran presence in the EDGE room. If we keep one of the Smiths, though, no real need for Whitney.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 13 Jan 2022 17:40
by YoHoChecko
Labrev wrote: ↑13 Jan 2022 17:20
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑13 Jan 2022 15:51
Well suppose he plays well in the playoffs.
One more good player that can't be resigned if the Packers keep AR.
Mercilus is actually one of the few vet guys who may be *more* likely to stick around if Rodgers also does. He's clearly aging and on the decline, so even if he looks really good in the next few weeks, I still doubt he will be offered more than (at best) a modest deal.
At least one of the Smiths is likely gone next year, if not both, even if we don't keep Rodgers. Mercilus is a guy we could bring back pretty cheaply while keeping an experienced veteran presence in the EDGE room. If we keep one of the Smiths, though, no real need for Whitney.
Yeah, he came here to try for a championship and maybe earn one last nice contract. His injury basically ruined his shot at the latter. So he'll try to contribute to the championship, and hopefully he does.
If he gets that, though, will he want to build on that here? Will he fall in love with the town and community? Or will he feel he has scratched that itch, checked that box, and now he can try to maximize his dollars one last time. Or if he doesn't win one here, will he be hunting for bargain deals on contending teams next offseason?
The psychology and dominoes behind him (including the Smiths, which you mentioned) are really fascinating for a guy who has been such a tiny part of our season
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 13 Jan 2022 20:11
by BF004
This is getting nutty
No… Freaking… excuses…
Starting with the pass rush. Gunna be hard to keep Lowry and Garvin on the bench how they’ve been playing, hopefully this can get Kenny a few more breathers on obvious passing downs.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 13 Jan 2022 20:14
by BF004
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑13 Jan 2022 17:40
Yeah, he came here to try for a championship and maybe earn one last nice contract. His injury basically ruined his shot at the latter.
Make an impact and make a couple of timely sacks when it matters most, he’ll get himself a nice contract.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 13 Jan 2022 20:37
by BSA
Labrev wrote: ↑13 Jan 2022 17:20
Mercilus is a guy we could bring back pretty cheaply while keeping an experienced veteran presence in the EDGE room. If we keep one of the Smiths, though, no real need for Whitney.
Yeah, he's earned north of $62M so far...but hasn't experienced as much winning lately. I think he'd be a good value and a good vet addition even IF one of the Smiths comes back- because you need 4 EDGE guys to cover the 2000 OLB snaps in a typical season.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 13 Jan 2022 21:05
by Labrev
fwiw, Mercilus is an Akron, Ohio native, grew up there and went to college at Illinois -- do with that information what you will.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 13 Jan 2022 23:08
by Pugger
From all accounts he is a natural leader so his return is great for our D.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 10:17
by BF004
Lmao
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 11:13
by German_Panzer
I do not share your enthusiasm. All these players did not play competitively for months. There may be some exceptions, but the rule is that such players are non-factors in their first games and we talk about the Playoffs here which are like 150%-regular-season games in terms of effort & stress. I stay skeptic for now, maybe that changes after the divisional game.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 11:16
by YoHoChecko
German_Panzer wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 11:13
I do not share your enthusiasm. All these players
did not play competitively for months. There may be some exceptions, but the rule is that such players are
non-factors, I‘d think.
What is the precedent for that "rule."
Was T.O. a nonfactor when he returned for the Super Bowl after a broken leg? What are other examples. Give me the evidence behind such a rule.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 11:54
by YoHoChecko
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 11:16
German_Panzer wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 11:13
I do not share your enthusiasm. All these players
did not play competitively for months. There may be some exceptions, but the rule is that such players are
non-factors, I‘d think.
What is the precedent for that "rule."
Was T.O. a nonfactor when he returned for the Super Bowl after a broken leg? What are other examples. Give me the evidence behind such a rule.
Plus they have 2 weeks of practice, some had a partial Lions game, they'll be rotational role players for a divisional round and work their way in. They have the NFCCG to make an impact, they have another 2 weeks of practice.
Like, there is a LOT of time to work their way into "make an impact" shape, and there is a good chance they can make impacts in smaller roles along the way. The thought that getting Bakhtiari, Za'Darius, Myers, Cobb, Jaire, and Mercilus back will combine to be mostly a non-factor in the playoffs is absolutely nuts to me. Nuts, I tell ya!
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 12:08
by go pak go
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 11:54
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 11:16
German_Panzer wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 11:13
I do not share your enthusiasm. All these players
did not play competitively for months. There may be some exceptions, but the rule is that such players are
non-factors, I‘d think.
What is the precedent for that "rule."
Was T.O. a nonfactor when he returned for the Super Bowl after a broken leg? What are other examples. Give me the evidence behind such a rule.
Plus they have 2 weeks of practice, some had a partial Lions game, they'll be rotational role players for a divisional round and work their way in. They have the NFCCG to make an impact, they have another 2 weeks of practice.
Like, there is a LOT of time to work their way into "make an impact" shape, and there is a good chance they can make impacts in smaller roles along the way. The thought that getting Bakhtiari, Za'Darius, Myers, Cobb, Jaire, and Mercilus back will combine to be mostly a non-factor in the playoffs is absolutely nuts to me. Nuts, I tell ya!
Yeah the biggest thing is these "stars" are stepping in as role player roles outside of Bakh who would put in all snaps.
Like would I rather have Z and Mercilus on the field when we play our backup pass rushers (Garvin and Tipa) or Z and Mercilus?
Would I rather have Alexander on the field or Sullivan to cover that really good slot guy?
It's a no brainer to me. They don't have to be All Pro's. At minimum we are just asking for impact and less liability than your Sullivan, Amari Rodgers, Garvin/Tipa alignments.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 12:14
by Pckfn23
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 12:08
It's a no brainer to me. They don't have to be All Pro's. At minimum we are just asking for impact and less liability than your Sullivan, Amari Rodgers, Garvin/Tipa alignments.
100%. Other than Bakhtiari, we aren't replacing current starters with these guys coming back. Cobb is pushing EQ and Rodgers to the bench. Mercilus & Smith are pushing Garvin and Galeai to the bench. Alexander is pushing Sullivan to the bench. Turner comes back after a month absence. These returns will definitely be impactful in a positive way.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 13:36
by German_Panzer
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 12:14
These returns will definitely be impactful in a positive way.
I play devil‘s advocate here:
They can also impactful in a negative way. They can make mistakes and misjudgements because of lack of game experience and rhythm. They can be too hesistant due to fear of re-injury (resulting in playing below the level of the guy that won‘t play because of them). They can take away the rhythm of other guys. And they can turn out to get reinjured or „feeling something“ which can cost us a big play - imagine Jaire tackling a RB, gets reinjured, gets down and the RB runs thru. All this can happen in the first game when they come back and it is Playoff time, it is one and done. They are just a source of risk. That is why someone invented the flying word of „Never change a winning team“. I would not play a guy in a serious playoff game that did not have at least 2 games to get back in game shape except if I am in a desperate position or like if the Eagles should come to town.
This is why I‘d suggest to MLF to look for stats about long term injured players coming back. What are the odds they can come in and deliver at least on a decent level? I remember Rodgers had massive problems after just some weeks of absence back then in the Carolina game, I remember Raven Greene being a no show after his long term injury, there might be counter examples, but this is not just Madden NFL 22, where u can plug in players like avatars, this is real life football, this is not Detroit, man, this is the Super Bowl!
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 13:52
by paco
German_Panzer wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 13:36
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 12:14
These returns will definitely be impactful in a positive way.
I play devil‘s advocate here:
They can also impactful in a negative way. They can make mistakes and misjudgements because of lack of game experience and rhythm. They can be too hesistant due to fear of re-injury (resulting in playing below the level of the guy that won‘t play because of them). They can take away the rhythm of other guys. And they can turn out to get reinjured or „feeling something“ which can cost us a big play - imagine Jaire tackling a RB, gets reinjured, gets down and the RB runs thru. All this can happen in the first game when they come back and it is Playoff time, it is one and done. They are just a source of risk. That is why someone invented the flying word of „Never change a winning team“. I would not play a guy in a serious playoff game that did not have at least 2 games to get back in game shape except if I am in a desperate position or like if the Eagles should come to town.
This is why I‘d suggest to MLF to look for stats about long term injured players coming back. What are the odds they can come in and deliver at least on a decent level? I remember Rodgers had massive problems after just some weeks of absence back then in the Carolina game, I remember Raven Greene being a no show after his long term injury, there might be counter examples, but this is not just Madden NFL 22, where u can plug in players like avatars, this is real life football, this is not Detroit, man, this is the Super Bowl!
Who's coming back?
Bakhtiari and Myers already looked good against the Lions and showed no issues. And you don't leave a player of Bak's caliber out for continuity.
Cobb and Jaire are seasoned enough to not have to worry about causing any problem with the rhythm. Again, you don't leave Jaire off the field if he's ready to play.
Mercilus and Z are also seasoned vets, but will probably start off in situation roles in any case. Z (see Bak and Jaire).
Injuries shouldn't come into the conversation at all. They are either ready to play or they aren't. That's what practices are for, to judge that. Why do you think it took Bak this long to play? He didn't feel right and wasn't getting cleared.
You trust that these guys are going to be put in spots to succeed. None are new to the Packers and the schemes or have played this year already. They are practicing now and have a week or 2 to learn any new calls. Trust MLF that he knows what he's doing. He's earned that right.
People spent most of the year pissing and moaning about Bak not coming back. Now that guys are coming back, people are all worried like it'll cause a problem. I don't get it. It's not an off the street guy who's brand new to the team this week.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 14:18
by Pckfn23
German_Panzer wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 13:36
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 12:14
These returns will definitely be impactful in a positive way.
I play devil‘s advocate here:
They can also impactful in a negative way. They can make mistakes and misjudgements because of lack of game experience and rhythm. They can be too hesistant due to fear of re-injury (resulting in playing below the level of the guy that won‘t play because of them). They can take away the rhythm of other guys. And they can turn out to get reinjured or „feeling something“ which can cost us a big play - imagine Jaire tackling a RB, gets reinjured, gets down and the RB runs thru. All this can happen in the first game when they come back and it is Playoff time, it is one and done. They are just a source of risk. That is why someone invented the flying word of „Never change a winning team“. I would not play a guy in a serious playoff game that did not have at least 2 games to get back in game shape except if I am in a desperate position or like if the Eagles should come to town.
This is why I‘d suggest to MLF to look for stats about long term injured players coming back. What are the odds they can come in and deliver at least on a decent level? I remember Rodgers had massive problems after just some weeks of absence back then in the Carolina game, I remember Raven Greene being a no show after his long term injury, there might be counter examples, but this is not just Madden NFL 22, where u can plug in players like avatars, this is real life football, this is not Detroit, man, this is the Super Bowl!
They are no more source of risk than the player they are replacing. This isn't Devil's Advocate, this is hand wringing. While all of that CAN happen, an asteroid can end the world before the game too.
What are the odds they can come in and deliver? I was under the impression there was a rule is they will be a non-factor.
Raven Greene was a role player that barely played as it was, not an All-Pro or Pro Bowler. Aaron Rodgers was still injured for the Carolina game. He barely practiced before the game and never played again that season. All the players we are talking about are practice 2 weeks before our game.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 14:57
by TheSkeptic
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 12:14
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 12:08
It's a no brainer to me. They don't have to be All Pro's. At minimum we are just asking for impact and less liability than your Sullivan, Amari Rodgers, Garvin/Tipa alignments.
100%. Other than Bakhtiari, we aren't replacing current starters with these guys coming back. Cobb is pushing EQ and Rodgers to the bench. Mercilus & Smith are pushing Garvin and Galeai to the bench. Alexander is pushing Sullivan to the bench. Turner comes back after a month absence. These returns will definitely be impactful in a positive way.
And Myers is allowing Patrick to move to RG. That upgrades 2 positions!
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 14 Jan 2022 15:22
by Yoop
well being a advocate for the devil on this topic is not a good idea
old rule is injury shouldn't be a demotion, if a injured player is cleared to play, they play, and usually that works for the best, exceptions shouldn't change the rule.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 15 Jan 2022 08:40
by Pugger
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 12:14
go pak go wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 12:08
It's a no brainer to me. They don't have to be All Pro's. At minimum we are just asking for impact and less liability than your Sullivan, Amari Rodgers, Garvin/Tipa alignments.
100%. Other than Bakhtiari, we aren't replacing current starters with these guys coming back. Cobb is pushing EQ and Rodgers to the bench. Mercilus & Smith are pushing Garvin and Galeai to the bench. Alexander is pushing Sullivan to the bench. Turner comes back after a month absence. These returns will definitely be impactful in a positive way.
Besides Bak perhaps Turner returns to RT?
All of these guys - other than Meyers - are seasoned veterans so they know how to get into NFL playing shape quickly.
Re: Mercilus is back!!
Posted: 15 Jan 2022 09:57
by RingoCStarrQB
Yoop wrote: ↑14 Jan 2022 15:22
well being a advocate for the devil on this topic is not a good idea
old rule is injury shouldn't be a demotion, if a injured player is cleared to play, they play, and usually that works for the best, exceptions shouldn't change the rule.
Yes, that is the old rule. I believe the old rule still applies as long as the player is really healthy enough to play.
The backups should be competent to start if necessary. Sometimes, unfortunately, this is not always the case though.