Packers Huddle

Pugger wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:46

Didn't he agree to return this year and next and then become a FA? Unless we can find a trading partner this spring he is either playing for us, we trade him or retiring.

That doesn't change anything that I said. They can restructure his deal without his permission. They can extend him, they can trade him, he can retire... the cap hit pretty much stays the same.

NCF wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:52

Pugger wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:46

Didn't he agree to return this year and next and then become a FA? Unless we can find a trading partner this spring he is either playing for us, we trade him or retiring.

That doesn't change anything that I said. They can restructure his deal without his permission. They can extend him, they can trade him, he can retire... the cap hit pretty much stays the same.

How/why would the cap hit stay the same if we trade him? Wouldn't his new team take on the contract?

im pretty much cool with riding with love in 2022 and hoping to be surprised, but be content with hopefully a top 10 pick in 2023 if Love sucks (like he has shown to). I want to see love pass or fail, and be given the chance to pass or fail. Then I want to praise or slander Gutey for how Love turns out. Then I want a top 10 pick if Love does suck so we can remedy the QB situation in the proper way.

Labrev wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:44

Blow it up.

- Let go or trade away every player who will not still be in their prime after we give them a second contract and it expires, with limited exceptions.
- Deal Rodgers and Adams away together for a blockbuster deal.
- Take advantage getting Rodgers off the books and of MVS and t'Onion's down years, bring them back on "prove it" deals. Love will need someone to throw to. Also EQ will probably be a nice bargain deal with familiarity.
- Figure out if Bakhtiari's knee will actually heal or if he's a Lemon, act accordingly.
- Let Jordan know he's the guy as early as you can and that he's got to show us something this season. If he doesn't the resources from a Rodgers trade and/or our draft capital to upgrade the QB spot, keep trying at that position until you hit.

Can't trade Adams (unless we clear cap and tag him), he's a free agent.

There are not that many players whom we could trade for a significant haul apart from AR. Namely the Smiths and Amos, all in the last years of their deals and approaching the 30-year-old mark. I guess technically also Turner, Lowry, Cobb and Crosby, and maybe Turner could actually have some takers.

Pugger wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:54

NCF wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:52

Pugger wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:46

Didn't he agree to return this year and next and then become a FA? Unless we can find a trading partner this spring he is either playing for us, we trade him or retiring.

That doesn't change anything that I said. They can restructure his deal without his permission. They can extend him, they can trade him, he can retire... the cap hit pretty much stays the same.

How/why would the cap hit stay the same if we trade him? Wouldn't his new team take on the contract?

His 2022 cap hit on our books will be around $25 million regardless because of accounting rules with the cap.

If we keep him, the cost for 2023 - 2025 will be suuuuuper expensive. We will never have a 2021 Packers caliber team again with Rodgers under center unless he agrees to a 3 - 4 year extension at a SIGNIFICANT discount that basically has his cap hits being comprised of money we already paid him.

Rodgers has $26 million of cap being devoted to him in 2022 or beyond by the Packers no matter what. This is money that was paid to Rodgers prior to this year that we deferred so we could sign his buddies and put together amazing teams.

When people on this forum said we were all in for 2021...we meant it.

I completely was on board with it for the chance at a ring. It was totally going to be worth it with a ring. Just sucks it ended the way it did.

You can do all this roster planning, signing, have diamonds in the rough and have it all not matter because your long snapper gets completely owned on a routine punt play.

Football is a brutal game if your name isn't Tom Brady.

Pugger wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:54

NCF wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:52

Pugger wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:46

Didn't he agree to return this year and next and then become a FA? Unless we can find a trading partner this spring he is either playing for us, we trade him or retiring.

That doesn't change anything that I said. They can restructure his deal without his permission. They can extend him, they can trade him, he can retire... the cap hit pretty much stays the same.

How/why would the cap hit stay the same if we trade him? Wouldn't his new team take on the contract?

We've essentially used some cap wizardry to delay when the huge cap charges from signing bonuses that have been paid to AR hit our books. If we trade/cut AR (or he retires), those cap charges will immediately hit our books even if he's no longer on the team (="dead cap").

Long story short, whether we trade or cut or extend AR, in all of those cases we can free up around 20M in cap space, but it's hard or impossible to free up more.

The team that would trade for AR would only inherit the base salary portion of the contract (26.5M). And since GB eats the dead cap, the new team would have a clean slate to work out an extension that could push his 2022 and 2023 cap hits super low. So, not only would they get AR, they'd get him in a great situation for a short-term SB push.

There's nothing GB can do to match that because of the aforementioned cap charges hanging over them...

Currently AR's 2022 cap hit is enormous 46M. There is zero chance he stays on that.

It's technically possible to restructure that a little bit under the current contract. We could free up 13M for 2022, leaving a 33M cap hit. But that would still mean we'd have to let a lot of good players go.

That is why me and others are not viewing AR staying for one more year under the same contract as an option. If Rodgers wants to go to a team with immediate SB chance in 2022, he will force a trade (in worst case, getting cut) and then do the contract extension, and that team will have a couple of years' window of low cap charges to load the roster with free agents. If AR plans to play for a while, he could sign a long extension with us, and try to re-load the team after a 2022 cap reckoning.

go pak go wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:43

Half Empty wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:42

Just got up to see the results. Maybe too early, but my biggest question is the thread title - 2020 Post-Morten?

May as well say 2011 Post Mortem. They are all the same.

Had my coffee and still don't understand the 2020. Looked like the initial post was about this season.

Half Empty wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 09:54

go pak go wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:43

Half Empty wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:42

Just got up to see the results. Maybe too early, but my biggest question is the thread title - 2020 Post-Morten?

May as well say 2011 Post Mortem. They are all the same.

Had my coffee and still don't understand the 2020. Looked like the initial post was about this season.

Probably just a simple clerical error, no biggy.

Half Empty wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 09:54

go pak go wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:43

Half Empty wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:42

Just got up to see the results. Maybe too early, but my biggest question is the thread title - 2020 Post-Morten?

May as well say 2011 Post Mortem. They are all the same.

Had my coffee and still don't understand the 2020. Looked like the initial post was about this season.

Fixed.

Also fixed it to be post mortem, not Post-Morten, which was funny to me because Morten is a common Norwegian name. So the thread was originally "wrong year Mail-Morten", and I was very confused.

Salmar80 wrote:If AR plans to play for a while, he could sign a long extension with us, and try to re-load the team after a 2022 cap reckoning.

I thought AR made it pretty clear in his presser last night he has no interest in being part of a rebuild. Pretty confident he is gone.

After yet another playoff disappointment, can’t say I’m terribly disappointed with that reality. If Rodgers couldn’t get the team over the hump with this 2021 roster, I am wholly convinced he wouldn’t get the team over the hump with a cap depleted 2022 and beyond roster. I am ready to accept the fact this era has ended and ready to see if Love is, indeed, worth the investment Gute put into him.

Cut our losses with Rodgers (and likely Adams, as much as I love that guy) and sign as much of the young core as you can. Prioritize Jenkins, Alexander, Douglas and, if there’s anything leftover, Campbell. Focus on defense and rushing offense going forward and see if Love can be a Garoppolo, Foles, Dilfer, or Brad Johnson for us. If not, use the draft capital gained from Rodgers and find a QB who can be.

APB wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 10:01

Salmar80 wrote:If AR plans to play for a while, he could sign a long extension with us, and try to re-load the team after a 2022 cap reckoning.

I thought AR made it pretty clear in his presser last night he has no interest in being part of a rebuild. Pretty confident he is gone.

After yet another playoff disappointment, can’t say I’m terribly disappointed with that reality. If Rodgers couldn’t get the team over the hump with this 2021 roster, I am wholly convinced he wouldn’t get the team over the hump with a cap depleted 2022 and beyond roster. I am ready to accept the fact this era has ended and ready to see if Love is, indeed, worth the investment Gute put into him.

Cut our losses with Rodgers (and likely Adams, as much as I love that guy) and sign as much of the young core as you can. Prioritize Jenkins, Alexander, Douglas and, if there’s anything leftover, Campbell. Focus on defense and rushing offense going forward and see if Love can be a Garoppolo, Foles, Dilfer, or Brad Johnson for us. If not, use the draft capital gained from Rodgers and find a QB who can be.

Yeah, sure sounded like he's likely to leave.

But there are different levels of rebuilds. All the other teams in the division are firing their GMs and head coaches, or otherwise still suck, so even without an all-in year roster, we would be in the playoffs in 2022 with AR under center. I mean, with a solid draft, we'd have a chance.

I guess that can still be too little for AR, but who knows. A complicated fella.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 10:14

APB wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 10:01

Salmar80 wrote:If AR plans to play for a while, he could sign a long extension with us, and try to re-load the team after a 2022 cap reckoning.

I thought AR made it pretty clear in his presser last night he has no interest in being part of a rebuild. Pretty confident he is gone.

After yet another playoff disappointment, can’t say I’m terribly disappointed with that reality. If Rodgers couldn’t get the team over the hump with this 2021 roster, I am wholly convinced he wouldn’t get the team over the hump with a cap depleted 2022 and beyond roster. I am ready to accept the fact this era has ended and ready to see if Love is, indeed, worth the investment Gute put into him.

Cut our losses with Rodgers (and likely Adams, as much as I love that guy) and sign as much of the young core as you can. Prioritize Jenkins, Alexander, Douglas and, if there’s anything leftover, Campbell. Focus on defense and rushing offense going forward and see if Love can be a Garoppolo, Foles, Dilfer, or Brad Johnson for us. If not, use the draft capital gained from Rodgers and find a QB who can be.

Yeah, sure sounded like he's likely to leave.

But there are different levels of rebuilds. All the other teams in the division are firing their GMs and head coaches, or otherwise still suck, so even without an all-in year roster, we would be in the playoffs in 2022 with AR under center. I mean, with a solid draft, we'd have a chance.

I guess that can still be too little for AR, but who knows. A complicated fella.

On some level, in a 24-hour span, the Detroit Lions became the most stable and enviable team in the NFCN.

APB wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 07:53

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 07:43

Couple of things need to happen if Rodgers is coming back:

Drayton needs to be fired.
You have to get a playmaker WR/TE in the first round.

Everything else is really there. Seriously. I think that's why people need to stop making excuses for Rodgers.

Everything else won’t be there if Rodgers returns, though. A Rodgers return will force a roster purge that will significantly weaken the offense, defense, and ST from a player perspective.

Precisely. If the Packers keep Rodgers and he does not take a major pay cut (I am not talking about a restructure which leaves the Packers in salary cap hell for 5 years, I am talking about $15 mil a year until he retires or 4 years, whichever comes first, with no incentives or bonuses or extra money of any kind) then good riddance to a greedy player who puts himself above the team and screws over his teammates on the D who did come to play yesterday and proved themselves to be the best D in the league.

I honestly do not see Rodgers taking a major pay cut to stay in Green Bay. Therefore he isn't coming back. People need to accept this. He isn't coming back.

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 07:43

Couple of things need to happen if Rodgers is coming back:

Drayton needs to be fired.
You have to get a playmaker WR/TE in the first round.

Everything else is really there. Seriously. I think that's why people need to stop making excuses for Rodgers.

Drayton needs to be fired full stop. Regardless of whether Rodgers is coming back. I don't know whether he and his staff have been given such poor resources (especially practice time) that their job was inpossible, in which case he should be fired because he didn't make enough of a song and dance about it, or if he was given resources and presided over the worst special teams by any NFL team ever on his own merits, in which case he should be fired.

And probably all his staff should be fired as well. When things are as bad as this, fire the lot of them, players and coaches alike. I will exclude the punter who has been quite good. There may be one or two coaches in the lower reaches of the team who weren't to blame and could be spared the purge. But basically, the whole lot wants firing and rebuilding.

Genuinely, has any side ever had a worse special teams unit? Yesterday's 10 point swing wasn't even their worst performance of the season.

And to add insult - has this been posted elsewhere - following San Fran's timeout, we only had 10 men on the field to block the final field goal.

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/p ... ers/590867

dsr wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 11:08

TheGreenMan wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 07:43

Couple of things need to happen if Rodgers is coming back:

Drayton needs to be fired.
You have to get a playmaker WR/TE in the first round.

Everything else is really there. Seriously. I think that's why people need to stop making excuses for Rodgers.

Drayton needs to be fired full stop. Regardless of whether Rodgers is coming back. I don't know whether he and his staff have been given such poor resources (especially practice time) that their job was inpossible, in which case he should be fired because he didn't make enough of a song and dance about it, or if he was given resources and presided over the worst special teams by any NFL team ever on his own merits, in which case he should be fired.

And probably all his staff should be fired as well. When things are as bad as this, fire the lot of them, players and coaches alike. I will exclude the punter who has been quite good. There may be one or two coaches in the lower reaches of the team who weren't to blame and could be spared the purge. But basically, the whole lot wants firing and rebuilding.

Genuinely, has any side ever had a worse special teams unit? Yesterday's 10 point swing wasn't even their worst performance of the season.

Definitely. Likely should have filed that under "Happening regardless"

And now, I mentioned in another thread that it was the worst special teams performance I've ever seen. Packers, opposing team, playoffs or regular season. Absolutely awful play.

It's absolutely clear Drayton needs to be canned. Probably more clear than any coach through here in a long time. Other guys you could argue for regarding certain things, but this unit is abysmal.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 10:01

Half Empty wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 09:54

go pak go wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 08:43

May as well say 2011 Post Mortem. They are all the same.

Had my coffee and still don't understand the 2020. Looked like the initial post was about this season.

Fixed.

Also fixed it to be post mortem, not Post-Morten, which was funny to me because Morten is a common Norwegian name. So the thread was originally "wrong year Mail-Morten", and I was very confused.

Thanks. At my age, I'm always concerned there's a reason for the stuff I don't understand.

Can someone who is good working with overthecap.com post or send me what a Jaire extension might look like?

I never know how to do the bonuses the right way. I was going to use Ramsey's contract as a starting point.

NCF wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 10:16

salmar80 wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 10:14

APB wrote: ↑

23 Jan 2022 10:01

I thought AR made it pretty clear in his presser last night he has no interest in being part of a rebuild. Pretty confident he is gone.

After yet another playoff disappointment, can’t say I’m terribly disappointed with that reality. If Rodgers couldn’t get the team over the hump with this 2021 roster, I am wholly convinced he wouldn’t get the team over the hump with a cap depleted 2022 and beyond roster. I am ready to accept the fact this era has ended and ready to see if Love is, indeed, worth the investment Gute put into him.

Cut our losses with Rodgers (and likely Adams, as much as I love that guy) and sign as much of the young core as you can. Prioritize Jenkins, Alexander, Douglas and, if there’s anything leftover, Campbell. Focus on defense and rushing offense going forward and see if Love can be a Garoppolo, Foles, Dilfer, or Brad Johnson for us. If not, use the draft capital gained from Rodgers and find a QB who can be.

Yeah, sure sounded like he's likely to leave.

But there are different levels of rebuilds. All the other teams in the division are firing their GMs and head coaches, or otherwise still suck, so even without an all-in year roster, we would be in the playoffs in 2022 with AR under center. I mean, with a solid draft, we'd have a chance.

I guess that can still be too little for AR, but who knows. A complicated fella.

On some level, in a 24-hour span, the Detroit Lions became the most stable and enviable team in the NFCN.

Cheers to those who wanted Jefferson instead of Love!

Labrev wrote: ↑

09 Feb 2022 21:45

Offseason goofiness 8,000,007.0