Packers Offseason Philosophy: Least Important Positions

[go pak go]

See I think Bak's injury is a significant reason why we don't have 2 SB rings from the last two years.

I think we very well win both SBs if he was protecting the LT spot and Turner was at RT.

You sign big time players for big time games. I know it obviously comes to a point. And I think we are at the point for Adams and Rodgers because their cap will simply be too large. But from a cap standpoint, signing even Bak for this run was good. He had a low cap hit this year for the intended purpose of putting together a run. It just didn't work out.

But Alexander is a guy you sign with the intention of keeping a Packer for another 5 years at least. And I can't let those guys go. 23, 97, and 52 are the pillars of the new defense.

I thought the consensus here was special teams cost us this year? Keep chugging beers at Bucks games during ur rehab Bak!. We cant win it without you.

I mean that's the easy target like it was in 2014.

But when you're an "offensive team", the goal should be 24 points. The Packers had that goal in 2014 at Seattle (especially when the D gives you 5 turnovers) and they should have had that vs SF. It's really hard to expect a win when you can't even put up 20 points.

And I have such a hard time blaming a loss on the most insignificant players on the team. Just as I don't blame businesses for failing because they had a poor intern hire.

[Realist]

See I think Bak's injury is a significant reason why we don't have 2 SB rings from the last two years.

I think we very well win both SBs if he was protecting the LT spot and Turner was at RT.

You sign big time players for big time games. I know it obviously comes to a point. And I think we are at the point for Adams and Rodgers because their cap will simply be too large. But from a cap standpoint, signing even Bak for this run was good. He had a low cap hit this year for the intended purpose of putting together a run. It just didn't work out.

But Alexander is a guy you sign with the intention of keeping a Packer for another 5 years at least. And I can't let those guys go. 23, 97, and 52 are the pillars of the new defense.

I thought the consensus here was special teams cost us this year? Keep chugging beers at Bucks games during ur rehab Bak!. We cant win it without you.

I mean that's the easy target like it was in 2014.

But when you're an "offensive team", the goal should be 24 points. The Packers had that goal in 2014 at Seattle (especially when the D gives you 5 turnovers) and they should have had that vs SF. It's really hard to expect a win when you can't even put up 20 points.

And I have such a hard time blaming a loss on the most insignificant players on the team. Just as I don't blame businesses for failing because they had a poor intern hire.

So I am happy that u feel the special teams excuse is silly(I hope). Rodgers wins the MVP without Bak. How does his playing get us to 24 in the SF game?

[go pak go]

I thought the consensus here was special teams cost us this year? Keep chugging beers at Bucks games during ur rehab Bak!. We cant win it without you.

I mean that's the easy target like it was in 2014.

But when you're an "offensive team", the goal should be 24 points. The Packers had that goal in 2014 at Seattle (especially when the D gives you 5 turnovers) and they should have had that vs SF. It's really hard to expect a win when you can't even put up 20 points.

And I have such a hard time blaming a loss on the most insignificant players on the team. Just as I don't blame businesses for failing because they had a poor intern hire.

So I am happy that u feel the special teams excuse is silly(I hope). Rodgers wins the MVP without Bak. How does his playing get us to 24 in the SF game?

We didn't get to 24 for a few reasons:

1. The Lewis fumble took a possession away and our defense I think got robbed on a fumble recovery that would have put us near the same spot.

2. Aaron Jones didn't take advantage of a play and ran a really, really stupid run after the catch that cost us at minimum a time out and 10 extra yards and at maximum a TD.

3. Our tackle situation was pretty poor. Especially at RT which didn't allow routes to develop.

4. Deguara's drop over the middle was huge. You can't drop plays that are there to be made.

5. Rodgers missed check downs. Especially in the 2nd half. An underrated key play was missing a checkdown and instead he tried to run it on his own but got tripped up the Dlineman. That was a play on 2nd down primed to get us moving, but it stalled us instead as we once again were facing a 3rd and long.

6. AJ Dillon being out. I think he is more important to our team than Aaron Jones and him being out was a killer.

7. The obvious miss of Lazard or even Q on that final drive.

Every time a play was there to be made, someone didn't make it. It was the fault of the QB, the TE, the RB. They just didn't make the play when it was there to be made which could have gotten us going. You have to make the plays when the plays are there to be made. And our offense really struggled doing that which put them behind the chains and right into SF's hands.

[Realist]

I mean that's the easy target like it was in 2014.

But when you're an "offensive team", the goal should be 24 points. The Packers had that goal in 2014 at Seattle (especially when the D gives you 5 turnovers) and they should have had that vs SF. It's really hard to expect a win when you can't even put up 20 points.

And I have such a hard time blaming a loss on the most insignificant players on the team. Just as I don't blame businesses for failing because they had a poor intern hire.

So I am happy that u feel the special teams excuse is silly(I hope). Rodgers wins the MVP without Bak. How does his playing get us to 24 in the SF game?

We didn't get to 24 for a few reasons:

1. The Lewis fumble took a possession away and our defense I think got robbed on a fumble recovery that would have put us near the same spot.

2. Aaron Jones didn't take advantage of a play and ran a really, really stupid run after the catch that cost us at minimum a time out and 10 extra yards and at maximum a TD.

3. Our tackle situation was pretty poor. Especially at RT which didn't allow routes to develop.

4. Deguara's drop over the middle was huge. You can't drop plays that are there to be made.

5. Rodgers missed check downs. Especially in the 2nd half. An underrated key play was missing a checkdown and instead he tried to run it on his own but got tripped up the Dlineman. That was a play on 2nd down primed to get us moving, but it stalled us instead as we once again were facing a 3rd and long.

6. AJ Dillon being out. I think he is more important to our team than Aaron Jones and him being out was a killer.

7. The obvious miss of Lazard or even Q on that final drive.

Every time a play was there to be made, someone didn't make it. It was the fault of the QB, the TE, the RB. They just didn't make the play when it was there to be made which could have gotten us going. You have to make the plays when the plays are there to be made. And our offense really struggled doing that which put them behind the chains and right into SF's hands.

Remember the wide open drops by Sanfran early? Ur excuses are well thought out and presented. There is no excuse to lose a game as the number one seed if we were championship quality. Overpaying Bak and others aint the answer. Time to move on. We kicked the can down the road last year and there is no reason to keep trying it again. The regular season darling thing is getting old for me.

[Yoop]

I'd agree with this guy, Campbell was our biggest improvement on defense, we had very good pass rush prior with out Gary, we had pretty good coverage prior to drafting Stokes, albeit when King was over matched, which to me said more about Pettine then King.

Campbell greatly increased our run stopping ability, and also had excellent coverage production, take his game out of the equation and this defense finishes late teens or even bottom 1/3 in the league, instead of 13th, we gotta bring Campbell, the chance of replacing his production through the draft is slimmer then you know what

NFC X-factors
Seed
1
Green Bay Packers
13-4
De'Vondre Campbell
Linebacker · Year 6
Green Bay's leading tackler was one of the most egregious Pro Bowl snubs, but Packer backers certainly appreciate his skills as the silent assassin on a defense with dominant potential. Campbell has excelled as a sideline-to-sideline defender in every aspect; the former Falcons fourth-rounder not only gobbles up ball carriers (146 total tackles), but he is a sneaky quarterback hunter (two sacks and six QB hits) and ballhawk (two interceptions, two forced fumbles and a fumble recovery). If the Packers' defense dominates throughout the tournament, No. 59 will be in the middle of the action as the primary playmaker.

[Pckfn23]

It would be beyond idiotic to move on from Bakhtiari in 2022. He costs more to cut or trade.

[Realist]

It would be beyond idiotic to move on from Bakhtiari in 2022. He costs more to cut or trade.

The signing was the issue. We realize we are stuck with him now.

[go pak go]

So I am happy that u feel the special teams excuse is silly(I hope). Rodgers wins the MVP without Bak. How does his playing get us to 24 in the SF game?

We didn't get to 24 for a few reasons:

1. The Lewis fumble took a possession away and our defense I think got robbed on a fumble recovery that would have put us near the same spot.

2. Aaron Jones didn't take advantage of a play and ran a really, really stupid run after the catch that cost us at minimum a time out and 10 extra yards and at maximum a TD.

3. Our tackle situation was pretty poor. Especially at RT which didn't allow routes to develop.

4. Deguara's drop over the middle was huge. You can't drop plays that are there to be made.

5. Rodgers missed check downs. Especially in the 2nd half. An underrated key play was missing a checkdown and instead he tried to run it on his own but got tripped up the Dlineman. That was a play on 2nd down primed to get us moving, but it stalled us instead as we once again were facing a 3rd and long.

6. AJ Dillon being out. I think he is more important to our team than Aaron Jones and him being out was a killer.

7. The obvious miss of Lazard or even Q on that final drive.

Every time a play was there to be made, someone didn't make it. It was the fault of the QB, the TE, the RB. They just didn't make the play when it was there to be made which could have gotten us going. You have to make the plays when the plays are there to be made. And our offense really struggled doing that which put them behind the chains and right into SF's hands.

Remember the wide open drops by Sanfran early? Ur excuses are well thought out and presented. There is no excuse to lose a game as the number one seed if we were championship quality. Overpaying Bak and others aint the answer. Time to move on. We kicked the can down the road last year and there is no reason to keep trying it again. The regular season darling thing is getting old for me.

They aren't excuses. Excuses is the act of "excusing" or trying to make lightly of poor play. These are causes and statements. These are reasons why we didn't get to 24 points.

I absolutely remember the early drops by SF. I was going to actually mention that but saw my post was getting long and decided not to get into that. Our defense played fantastic but not 3 points fantastic. There was for sure a TD dropped by SF's TE.

But you wanted to know how we didn't get to 24 and my response was simple. Our players didn't execute. It's not an excuse. It's the reason. Once again they shriveled up when the opportunity was there.

And I too want to move on. I have made that abundantly clear over the past few weeks.

[go pak go]

It would be beyond idiotic to move on from Bakhtiari in 2022. He costs more to cut or trade.

The signing was the issue. We realize we are stuck with him now.

So am I right in saying your assertion is to invest less in our Oline?

Or is it more about changing philosophy to not have "highest paid player at a position"

[Realist]

It would be beyond idiotic to move on from Bakhtiari in 2022. He costs more to cut or trade.

The signing was the issue. We realize we are stuck with him now.

So am I right in saying your assertion is to invest less in our Oline?

Or is it more about changing philosophy to not have "highest paid player at a position"

My assertion is that the signing of bak at 95 mil was ridiculous. Of course o line always needs investment.

[Labrev]

So you are GM. You have to put together a Packers roster. What position groups are investing the least amount in?

Frankly, I would transition to being an ugly football team.

with Rodgers:
-- I would not give him more "help" at receiver. I would actually get rid of the receivers he falls in love with so he plays like a QB that actually has to survey the field. Trade Adams away. Cut Cobb, we will probably need to anyway.

-- I would hold onto Dillon tightly, and probably get a few more Power RBs that will grind out yards even if it's a stout defense. Make every 3rd down require 5 yards or less to convert. This will work nicely with Rodgers having no big-play WRs.

-- I would keep investing in OL in the mids, keep that position group deep/strong.

-- Defense: this is what Rodgers *actually* needs, a defense that keeps forcing punts/turnovers over and over because Rodgers needs to keep getting the ball back and deep within the other team's territory to string together a scoring drive that will put the game away (... and will still wind up forcing us to settle for field-goals)

no Rodgers:
-- QB need only be a game-manager, plus some other quality that makes them difficult (e.g. can run a bit, is very cool under pressure, etc).
-- Same OL philosophy
-- Have a solid RB stable, but no mega-deals
-- Diverse group of skills from receivers. In lieu of a star RB or QB, I am willing to invest in star WR or even TE talent, and a couple of the OL spots.
-- Defense wins championships, focus on keeping it strong.

Either:
-- Premium: IDL, CB
-- Standard, Tier 1: WR, OL, LB; Std. Tier 2: RB, S #1, TE
-- Substandard: EDGE, S #2. It's not an EDGE league anymore, QBs get the ball out too fast. Just rotate between run-stopper and speed-rusher.

[go pak go]

I can't like a post more Labrev.

You and I have the exact same thoughts on building a team.

[Pugger]

I mean that's the easy target like it was in 2014.

But when you're an "offensive team", the goal should be 24 points. The Packers had that goal in 2014 at Seattle (especially when the D gives you 5 turnovers) and they should have had that vs SF. It's really hard to expect a win when you can't even put up 20 points.

And I have such a hard time blaming a loss on the most insignificant players on the team. Just as I don't blame businesses for failing because they had a poor intern hire.

So I am happy that u feel the special teams excuse is silly(I hope). Rodgers wins the MVP without Bak. How does his playing get us to 24 in the SF game?

We didn't get to 24 for a few reasons:

1. The Lewis fumble took a possession away and our defense I think got robbed on a fumble recovery that would have put us near the same spot.

2. Aaron Jones didn't take advantage of a play and ran a really, really stupid run after the catch that cost us at minimum a time out and 10 extra yards and at maximum a TD.

3. Our tackle situation was pretty poor. Especially at RT which didn't allow routes to develop.

4. Deguara's drop over the middle was huge. You can't drop plays that are there to be made.

5. Rodgers missed check downs. Especially in the 2nd half. An underrated key play was missing a checkdown and instead he tried to run it on his own but got tripped up the Dlineman. That was a play on 2nd down primed to get us moving, but it stalled us instead as we once again were facing a 3rd and long.

6. AJ Dillon being out. I think he is more important to our team than Aaron Jones and him being out was a killer.

7. The obvious miss of Lazard or even Q on that final drive.

Every time a play was there to be made, someone didn't make it. It was the fault of the QB, the TE, the RB. They just didn't make the play when it was there to be made which could have gotten us going. You have to make the plays when the plays are there to be made. And our offense really struggled doing that which put them behind the chains and right into SF's hands.

Plus we get a FG blocked right before the half.

[go pak go]

So I am happy that u feel the special teams excuse is silly(I hope). Rodgers wins the MVP without Bak. How does his playing get us to 24 in the SF game?

We didn't get to 24 for a few reasons:

1. The Lewis fumble took a possession away and our defense I think got robbed on a fumble recovery that would have put us near the same spot.

2. Aaron Jones didn't take advantage of a play and ran a really, really stupid run after the catch that cost us at minimum a time out and 10 extra yards and at maximum a TD.

3. Our tackle situation was pretty poor. Especially at RT which didn't allow routes to develop.

4. Deguara's drop over the middle was huge. You can't drop plays that are there to be made.

5. Rodgers missed check downs. Especially in the 2nd half. An underrated key play was missing a checkdown and instead he tried to run it on his own but got tripped up the Dlineman. That was a play on 2nd down primed to get us moving, but it stalled us instead as we once again were facing a 3rd and long.

6. AJ Dillon being out. I think he is more important to our team than Aaron Jones and him being out was a killer.

7. The obvious miss of Lazard or even Q on that final drive.

Every time a play was there to be made, someone didn't make it. It was the fault of the QB, the TE, the RB. They just didn't make the play when it was there to be made which could have gotten us going. You have to make the plays when the plays are there to be made. And our offense really struggled doing that which put them behind the chains and right into SF's hands.

Plus we get a FG blocked right before the half.

I wasn't talking about STs. I was talking about offense.

[Scott4Pack]

well just take a look at the best defenses this year, all had superior ILB play

Ok I took a look and nope, you can't just say things because you want them to be true.

Also, none of the top 6 highest paid LB's made it to the playoffs.

As much as I love De'Vondre and the impact he had on our D, I would honestly be a little considered about our $$ allocation to RB and LB. History tends to show that isn't money well spent. As great as those guys are and I want them both and there are always exceptions to the numbers. But yeah.

Check #3 on that highest paid list. I seem to recall the Titans being the #1 seed in the AFC.

:-)

[Yoop]

As much as I love De'Vondre and the impact he had on our D, I would honestly be a little considered about our $$ allocation to RB and LB. History tends to show that isn't money well spent. As great as those guys are and I want them both and there are always exceptions to the numbers. But yeah.

I still think my point is valid, here are the top 9 defenses, and all have very good ILB's

#1 Rams, when ya have Donald and Robinson you get to skimp a little at ILB

#2 Tampa Lavonte David and Devin White

#3 Colts Darious Leonard

#4 Baltimore Patrick Queen

#5 Cleveland Anthony Walker

#6 Washington Jamin Davis

#7 Patriots Donte Hightower

#8 Denver ?

#9 Buffalo Tremaine Edwards.

I'am not saying these are the best ILB's, but they are better then we've had till we got Campbell, we'll see what the FO thinks of having great ILB play when it comes time to keep him or let him walk.

agreed ILB may not be a key defensive position, but imo having a good one make the defense a lot better, we saw that with Martinez, and it was so obvious this year with Campbell.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-top-nine ... -broncos-h

[go pak go]

As much as I love De'Vondre and the impact he had on our D, I would honestly be a little considered about our $$ allocation to RB and LB. History tends to show that isn't money well spent. As great as those guys are and I want them both and there are always exceptions to the numbers. But yeah.

I still think my point is valid, here are the top 9 defenses, and all have very good ILB's

#1 Rams, when ya have Donald and Robinson you get to skimp a little at ILB

#2 Tampa Lavonte David and Devin White

#3 Colts Darious Leonard

#4 Baltimore Patrick Queen

#5 Cleveland Anthony Walker

#6 Washington Jamin Davis

#7 Patriots Donte Hightower

#8 Denver ?

#9 Buffalo Tremaine Edwards.

I'am not saying these are the best ILB's, but they are better then we've had till we got Campbell, we'll see what the FO thinks of having great ILB play when it comes time to keep him or let him walk.

agreed ILB may not be a key defensive position, but imo having a good one make the defense a lot better, we saw that with Martinez, and it was so obvious this year with Campbell.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-top-nine ... -broncos-h

So what position are you willing to cut back to make that happen?

We have 100's of threads on this board of "what we should invest more in". This thread is to identify what positions we are willing to cutback to pave way for our priority positions.

[BF004]

well just take a look at the best defenses this year, all had superior ILB play

Ok I took a look and nope, you can't just say things because you want them to be true.

Also, none of the top 6 highest paid LB's made it to the playoffs.

As much as I love De'Vondre and the impact he had on our D, I would honestly be a little considered about our $$ allocation to RB and LB. History tends to show that isn't money well spent. As great as those guys are and I want them both and there are always exceptions to the numbers. But yeah.

Check #3 on that highest paid list. I seem to recall the Titans being the #1 seed in the AFC.

:-)

My bad, definitely got thrown with the Texans jersey and the note below it saying originally signed by HOU, only a tiny little Tennessee logo. lol

[Pckfn23]

I still think my point is valid, here are the top 9 defenses, and all have very good ILB's

#1 Rams, when ya have Donald and Robinson you get to skimp a little at ILB

#4 Baltimore Patrick Queen

#6 Washington Jamin Davis

#8 Denver ?

[Yoop]

As much as I love De'Vondre and the impact he had on our D, I would honestly be a little considered about our $$ allocation to RB and LB. History tends to show that isn't money well spent. As great as those guys are and I want them both and there are always exceptions to the numbers. But yeah.

I still think my point is valid, here are the top 9 defenses, and all have very good ILB's

#1 Rams, when ya have Donald and Robinson you get to skimp a little at ILB

#2 Tampa Lavonte David and Devin White

#3 Colts Darious Leonard

#4 Baltimore Patrick Queen

#5 Cleveland Anthony Walker

#6 Washington Jamin Davis

#7 Patriots Donte Hightower

#8 Denver ?

#9 Buffalo Tremaine Edwards.

I'am not saying these are the best ILB's, but they are better then we've had till we got Campbell, we'll see what the FO thinks of having great ILB play when it comes time to keep him or let him walk.

agreed ILB may not be a key defensive position, but imo having a good one make the defense a lot better, we saw that with Martinez, and it was so obvious this year with Campbell.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-s-top-nine ... -broncos-h

So what position are you willing to cut back to make that happen?

We have 100's of threads on this board of "what we should invest more in". This thread is to identify what positions we are willing to cutback to pave way for our priority positions.

there are NO least important positions if you want a top tier defense, for years you and I clamored for better inside linebackers ( Kendricks, Edwards, Queen etc.) each year we passed on the position, we went from a 20th ranked defense to 13th and Campbell played a huge roll in that improvement.