How did we get from there to here? His name is Nijman and he would be a starting LT on many teams. The other thing that happened is that Runyan proved to be a better than average LG in his second year - the kid can play! That frees up Jenkins to play RT.go pak go wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022 17:13How did we go from "we need to draft a Tackle early and often" last year in your mind to "we don't need no Olinemen" this year when we literally have less Olinemen outside of center than we did last year?TheSkeptic wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022 16:42I fail to understand what is wrong with
Bakh, Runyan, Myers, Newman, Jenkins with Nijman as the swing tackle.
You have not 1 but 2 Olineman in your draft that are going to be bench warmers on O. As for ST, how many Olinemen play on the kickoff or Kick return or punt teams???
The problem on ST is the lack of a kickoff returner and a punt returner and a cold weather kickoff and a cold weather punter. Ideally you draft a return specialist in the 5th or 6th or 7th round and you draft a punter who can kick off also in the 6th or 7th rounds. If you can't, then go the UDFA route. And tell the long snapper to put on 10 pounds or he is history.
Getting a Swing Guard/Tackle isn't sexy, but I can absolutely see the merit.
"Fix Your Special Teams"-mock draft.
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And he just received a RFA tender that undoubtedly will have him signing a new deal elsewhere in 2023. You guys really have to think beyond the current year when it comes to The Draft. So many are so fixated on Year 1 returns, only.TheSkeptic wrote: ↑30 Mar 2022 14:08How did we get from there to here? His name is Nijman and he would be a starting LT on many teams.
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Yoop wrote: ↑30 Mar 2022 13:41I was just thinking how nice it would be to have a couple bull dozier guards like we had with Sitton and Lang, to open some bigger gaps for Dillon and Jones, we really sucked at run blocking last year, true our line even with the injury's ranked middle of the league, but our pass pro got us that grade, run blocking I'd bet we ranked mid 20's, but I'am to tired now to look that uppaco wrote: ↑30 Mar 2022 08:48I know everyone is questioning getting rid of Turner. He was good and wouldn't cost a ton. But the decision was made and that's that. Swing tackles are easy enough to find. We keep doing it successfully. We'll probably sign another vet after the draft.
We can argue targeting any OL position in the 1st until the cows come home. We had some back and forth on Green in my mock thread as well as I did the same thing. Odds are, you draft a 1st round OL, he's starting. That means that he's either our starting RT, LG, or RG. That pushes Nijman to the bench/swing tackle, or Newman/Runyan.
Don't think about it in terms of who is hurt now. Gutey sure isn't drafting a 1st round OL to fill a hole for a few weeks or even 1 season.
In any case, I can see an argument for it. Can never have enough quality OL. But I also agree, we are pretty well set with what we have and can find the depth we need later in the draft or in FA.
Not according to ESPN analytics:
17. Green Bay Packers
LT. Elgton Jenkins A-, LG. Jon Runyan C+, C. Lucas Patrick C-, RG. Royce Newman C-, RT. Billy Turner C+, T. Yosh Nijman C
The Packers offensive probably had the most stressful season of any of the good offensive lines. They played a large chunk of the season with four starters out. Their best player, David Bakhtiari, was on IR to start the year, and he was supposed to be back somewhere around midway through the season, but he ended up having a setback and did not play until week 18. Elgton Jenkins was a pro-bowl guard in 2020, but he was moved to LT this season to replace Bakhtiari, and was excellent. Unfortunately, he only made it through eight games before being lost for the year to injury. Josh Myers was the team’s second-round pick and got the nod as the team’s day one starting center. He was off to an inconsistent start but showed flashes that he could play. However, he ended up missing 10 straight games after his week-six start before coming back for the finale. Patrick Lucas was slated to play guard this season but was moved to center while Myers was out and did a solid job. With Jenkins playing tackle and Lucas now at center, the guard spots were mostly played by Jon Runyan, a 2020 sixth-round pick, and Royce Newman, their 2021 fourth-round pick. Newman and Runyan ended up starting the most games upfront for the Packers. Runyan ended up having a good season and looks like a real player for this team moving forward. He finished 13th among guards in PA% in his first full season as a starter. Newman had his moments where he looked like a day three rookie, but he had a solid season and could one day be a legitimate starter in this league. The Packers were hit hardest at the tackle positions this season. Not only did Bakhtiari and Jenkins miss a lot of time, but the starting RT Billy Turner was lost for the season in week 14. Turner was having a solid season before the injury. Yosh Nijman took over at LT after Jenkins went down and was serviceable there. Dennis Kelly took over at RT for Turner down the stretch and played well. So well that it looks like the Packers are going to go with him at RT over Nijman for the playoffs. Given all the injuries and lineup changes it’s hard to put a lot of stock in this unit’s overall numbers on the year. However, the one thing you can hang your hat on this season about this group is the fact that Rodgers was protected most of the season, and they didn’t hurt this team because they ended up with the best record in the NFL.
https://www.olinestats.com/articles/202 ... e-rankings
this from PFF
14. GREEN BAY PACKERS (UP 2)
LT Yosh Nijman | 63.8
LG Jon Runyan | 65.0
C Lucas Patrick | 57.6
RG Royce Newman | 56.1
RT Billy Turner | 66.2
Green Bay’s offensive has had its best players picked off throughout the season. David Bakhtiari — arguably the top pass-blocking left tackle in the game — only returned for a cameo performance in Week 18, while Elgton Jenkins went down for the season after eight games. Despite those injuries, the Packers' line continues to be fine.
Yosh Nijman earned an average 63.8 PFF grade and was better than average as a pass-blocker, surrendering 20 pressures in 10 games and 356 pass-blocking snaps. With a healthy Bakhtiari and Jenkins, this would be a top-10 line.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021 ... e-rankings
top half of league, mostly because of injury, but those Guard grades need to improve, there is other data that supports my opinion, our RB are amongst league leaders for yards after first contact, that is a solid indicator that we struggling opening run lanes, and it supports what I /we see, Dillon driving and carrying defenders, and Jones forced to bounce out , so bringing in a T/G to compete with Runyan and Newman seems fine to me.
LT. Elgton Jenkins A-, LG. Jon Runyan C+, C. Lucas Patrick C-, RG. Royce Newman C-, RT. Billy Turner C+, T. Yosh Nijman C
The Packers offensive probably had the most stressful season of any of the good offensive lines. They played a large chunk of the season with four starters out. Their best player, David Bakhtiari, was on IR to start the year, and he was supposed to be back somewhere around midway through the season, but he ended up having a setback and did not play until week 18. Elgton Jenkins was a pro-bowl guard in 2020, but he was moved to LT this season to replace Bakhtiari, and was excellent. Unfortunately, he only made it through eight games before being lost for the year to injury. Josh Myers was the team’s second-round pick and got the nod as the team’s day one starting center. He was off to an inconsistent start but showed flashes that he could play. However, he ended up missing 10 straight games after his week-six start before coming back for the finale. Patrick Lucas was slated to play guard this season but was moved to center while Myers was out and did a solid job. With Jenkins playing tackle and Lucas now at center, the guard spots were mostly played by Jon Runyan, a 2020 sixth-round pick, and Royce Newman, their 2021 fourth-round pick. Newman and Runyan ended up starting the most games upfront for the Packers. Runyan ended up having a good season and looks like a real player for this team moving forward. He finished 13th among guards in PA% in his first full season as a starter. Newman had his moments where he looked like a day three rookie, but he had a solid season and could one day be a legitimate starter in this league. The Packers were hit hardest at the tackle positions this season. Not only did Bakhtiari and Jenkins miss a lot of time, but the starting RT Billy Turner was lost for the season in week 14. Turner was having a solid season before the injury. Yosh Nijman took over at LT after Jenkins went down and was serviceable there. Dennis Kelly took over at RT for Turner down the stretch and played well. So well that it looks like the Packers are going to go with him at RT over Nijman for the playoffs. Given all the injuries and lineup changes it’s hard to put a lot of stock in this unit’s overall numbers on the year. However, the one thing you can hang your hat on this season about this group is the fact that Rodgers was protected most of the season, and they didn’t hurt this team because they ended up with the best record in the NFL.
https://www.olinestats.com/articles/202 ... e-rankings
this from PFF
14. GREEN BAY PACKERS (UP 2)
LT Yosh Nijman | 63.8
LG Jon Runyan | 65.0
C Lucas Patrick | 57.6
RG Royce Newman | 56.1
RT Billy Turner | 66.2
Green Bay’s offensive has had its best players picked off throughout the season. David Bakhtiari — arguably the top pass-blocking left tackle in the game — only returned for a cameo performance in Week 18, while Elgton Jenkins went down for the season after eight games. Despite those injuries, the Packers' line continues to be fine.
Yosh Nijman earned an average 63.8 PFF grade and was better than average as a pass-blocker, surrendering 20 pressures in 10 games and 356 pass-blocking snaps. With a healthy Bakhtiari and Jenkins, this would be a top-10 line.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021 ... e-rankings
top half of league, mostly because of injury, but those Guard grades need to improve, there is other data that supports my opinion, our RB are amongst league leaders for yards after first contact, that is a solid indicator that we struggling opening run lanes, and it supports what I /we see, Dillon driving and carrying defenders, and Jones forced to bounce out , so bringing in a T/G to compete with Runyan and Newman seems fine to me.
[mention]Yoop[/mention] - with all due respect, I've never even heard of that first site. The apparent single evaluator doesn't describe his grading criteria nor does he even mention run blocking in his write-up. The PFF grade, too, fails to address anything regarding the quality of run block proficiency, instead focusing on injuries and Yosh Nijman.
I'm not huge on ESPN analytics but at least they lay out their grading criteria and have a huge staff to view and grade individuals/units.
Regardless of which data evaluation you take to heart, none of them presented reflect the dire state of run block inefficiency you described originally.
I'm not huge on ESPN analytics but at least they lay out their grading criteria and have a huge staff to view and grade individuals/units.
Regardless of which data evaluation you take to heart, none of them presented reflect the dire state of run block inefficiency you described originally.
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I’ll be with yoop on this one.
Injuries or whatever, I was not pleased with our run blocking at all last year.
I believe there were stats saying we had the most yards after contact by RBs last year. Guessing the run block win rate thing doesn’t give a very in depth analysis on actual run blocking.
I am pretty hopeful for this group going forward, getting two all pros back and some good old fashioned youth progression.
But I wouldn’t hesitate to take and OL at 22, G or T and Jenkins can just go wherever else. But probably should be taking two linemen in the draft regardless for depth and progression. Especially given the injuries we’ve been having here.
Injuries or whatever, I was not pleased with our run blocking at all last year.
I believe there were stats saying we had the most yards after contact by RBs last year. Guessing the run block win rate thing doesn’t give a very in depth analysis on actual run blocking.
I am pretty hopeful for this group going forward, getting two all pros back and some good old fashioned youth progression.
But I wouldn’t hesitate to take and OL at 22, G or T and Jenkins can just go wherever else. But probably should be taking two linemen in the draft regardless for depth and progression. Especially given the injuries we’ve been having here.
I agree, too. God bless the people that spend time grading individual OL play, but it's probably a really tough thing to do. I think Andy Herman has done a nice job explaining that while the individual grades are not bad, per se, if you compare what we had in 2021 vs 2020, it's clear to see the degradation as a unit when you lose a Bak, Jenkings, and Linsley. I also think guys like Newman and Myers, even with marginal improvement, can really improve the OL as a whole. Obviously, getting Bak back in the line-up is critical, too, but I suspect our run game will look much closer to the 2020 version this season than what we had last year.BF004 wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022 07:31I’ll be with yoop on this one.
Injuries or whatever, I was not pleased with our run blocking at all last year.
I believe there were stats saying we had the most yards after contact by RBs last year. Guessing the run block win rate thing doesn’t give a very in depth analysis on actual run blocking.
I am pretty hopeful for this group going forward, getting two all pros back and some good old fashioned youth progression.
But I wouldn’t hesitate to take and OL at 22, G or T and Jenkins can just go wherever else. But probably should be taking two linemen in the draft regardless for depth and progression. Especially given the injuries we’ve been having here.
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ESPN Analytics = ESPN Anal yticsAPB wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022 06:43@Yoop - with all due respect, I've never even heard of that first site. The apparent single evaluator doesn't describe his grading criteria nor does he even mention run blocking in his write-up. The PFF grade, too, fails to address anything regarding the quality of run block proficiency, instead focusing on injuries and Yosh Nijman.
I'm not huge on ESPN analytics but at least they lay out their grading criteria and have a huge staff to view and grade individuals/units.
Regardless of which data evaluation you take to heart, none of them presented reflect the dire state of run block inefficiency you described originally.
it's not so easy to find run grades, most main line grade sites had us ranked about 15, mid league.
seriously I don't know if your arguing with what we both saw or just me, you had to see far to often what I just described to you, Dillon carrying defenders, and Jones looking for a hole to run through, giving up and bouncing it wide was what we saw on most run plays, I give credit to Lafluer for just continuing to use it, course what choice did he have with only one reliable receiver, McCarthy would have abandoned the run for sure.
I'd like to keep Jenkins at guard, but he will be so much better at RT then Njiman that I expect he'll take that spot, and that leaves us with Runyan who looks to be cusping up to a sold Guard, and Newman who struggled all season as a run blocker, so a mid round G to push him and compete seems like a logical pick to me.
Again, I doubt the Packer O-line was top 5 as the ESPN analytics graded them but I also don't think the above statement is at all accurate in the unit's run blocking evaluation.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.7 yds/att, tied for 7th among RBs with more than 100 carries, while AJ Dillon averaged 4.3 yds/att (tied for 21st). Sure, these guys are good with YAC but are you honestly gonna argue the O-line blocking "sucked" and it was all individual effort? I think you guys are overly focused on some difficult individual games/performances while dismissing what was overall a very solid season from the unit despite the multitude of injuries.
[mention]NCF[/mention] brought up Andy Herman. Even Andy consistently had multiple O-linemen within his top 5 weekly grades. The selective sites [mention]Yoop[/mention] brought to "prove" his point still listed the unit as average, at worst. Far from "they sucked" anyway.
I honestly don't get where this overall "sucked" analysis is coming from.
injuries and youth certainly didnt help the OL run block. But i also blame play selection. Run blocking is a mentality. Gotta think real mean and want to drive somebody backwards and take their dignity. Gotta fire off the ball.
Pass blocking is defensive in nature. Dig in, get back on your heels and hold the line.
I think its hard for OLmen to switch rapidly between the skills needed to succeed at both. I think our inclination to abandon the run and pass alot makes it hard to get the OL in a rhythm of run blocking.
Pass blocking is defensive in nature. Dig in, get back on your heels and hold the line.
I think its hard for OLmen to switch rapidly between the skills needed to succeed at both. I think our inclination to abandon the run and pass alot makes it hard to get the OL in a rhythm of run blocking.
I Do Not Hate Matt Lafleur
OK then sucked might be the wrong word, but the sites I used are only a few, there are others that gave us about the same ranking.APB wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022 10:48Again, I doubt the Packer O-line was top 5 as the ESPN analytics graded them but I also don't think the above statement is at all accurate in the unit's run blocking evaluation.
Aaron Jones averaged 4.7 yds/att, tied for 7th among RBs with more than 100 carries, while AJ Dillon averaged 4.3 yds/att (tied for 21st). Sure, these guys are good with YAC but are you honestly gonna argue the O-line blocking "sucked" and it was all individual effort? I think you guys are overly focused on some difficult individual games/performances while dismissing what was overall a very solid season from the unit despite the multitude of injuries.
@NCF brought up Andy Herman. Even Andy consistently had multiple O-linemen within his top 5 weekly grades. The selective sites @Yoop brought to "prove" his point still listed the unit as average, at worst.
I honestly don't get where this overall "sucked" analysis is coming from.
I like Labrevs pick of Green because he will be a road grading run blocker, as well as great at pass pro, but there are others mid rounds that could be a improvement over Newman and probably Runyan as well, our RB's did get those averages based a lot on individual effort, I'am not the only guy thats point out yards after initial contact, which is a huge indicator of run blocking success.
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I think the discrepancy in opinions of the OLine lie not in whether or not it "sucked," but in whether or not it was a strength of our 2021 team or just a contributing unit that didn't let us down most of the time.
And the answer is that the OL was pretty average because the players who bring it up from average to strength were injured. Our literal two best OL were out for a combined 26 games and the OL still held up. That made it a strength of the roster and an average unit on the field, if that makes sense.
Moving forward, we have a starting 5 that can be at least as good as last year (Bakh, JRJ, Myers, Newman, Nijman) with the eventual return of Jenkins adding strength to the unit.
To me, that makes it really tough for me to justify an iOL in the first round--especially given how successfully we have found and trained those guys later (and we retained the OL coach). To me, you re-sign David Kelly who filled in fairly admirably at RT for OT depth, and you draft a guy who can challenge for RG/RT duties into the future. I have to think now that Jenkins is our RT of the future, and that Nijman and Kelly can hold it down until then.
Now, Green is ideally an iOL at the next level, rather than an OT (in my view and most of the people I read). So he could do that. But we'd essentially be drafting a guy to replace Newman after only one year of development. Surely Newman needs to improve his awareness in pass blocking (I think he was a more than adequate run blocker), but he was a 4th round rookie and I see no reason not to expect improvement there.
I think we need depth--maybe even 2 OL in this draft though I'd prefer not. But I don't see any reason to use a resource higher than pick 92. Ideally, no higher than pick 132. It depends on what the team thinks of guys like Hansen and Cole Van Lanen. I don't have much faith in CVL, honestly. He's a cute hometown story that looked entirely out of his depth in year one practices and camp. He'll likely improve but I don't see a starting quality player emerging from him. Hansen maybe can get to an EDS level interior reserve, but likely not even to a Lucas Patrick level, as Patrick had more athleticism by far.
And the answer is that the OL was pretty average because the players who bring it up from average to strength were injured. Our literal two best OL were out for a combined 26 games and the OL still held up. That made it a strength of the roster and an average unit on the field, if that makes sense.
Moving forward, we have a starting 5 that can be at least as good as last year (Bakh, JRJ, Myers, Newman, Nijman) with the eventual return of Jenkins adding strength to the unit.
To me, that makes it really tough for me to justify an iOL in the first round--especially given how successfully we have found and trained those guys later (and we retained the OL coach). To me, you re-sign David Kelly who filled in fairly admirably at RT for OT depth, and you draft a guy who can challenge for RG/RT duties into the future. I have to think now that Jenkins is our RT of the future, and that Nijman and Kelly can hold it down until then.
Now, Green is ideally an iOL at the next level, rather than an OT (in my view and most of the people I read). So he could do that. But we'd essentially be drafting a guy to replace Newman after only one year of development. Surely Newman needs to improve his awareness in pass blocking (I think he was a more than adequate run blocker), but he was a 4th round rookie and I see no reason not to expect improvement there.
I think we need depth--maybe even 2 OL in this draft though I'd prefer not. But I don't see any reason to use a resource higher than pick 92. Ideally, no higher than pick 132. It depends on what the team thinks of guys like Hansen and Cole Van Lanen. I don't have much faith in CVL, honestly. He's a cute hometown story that looked entirely out of his depth in year one practices and camp. He'll likely improve but I don't see a starting quality player emerging from him. Hansen maybe can get to an EDS level interior reserve, but likely not even to a Lucas Patrick level, as Patrick had more athleticism by far.
I mean, looking at the name list of our OL and the resumés of the ones injured for majority of last season, it had the potential to be THE worst OL in my time following the Packers. Even worse than the post-Sherman line featuring Will Whitticker. At least he was drafted, whereas Nijman wasn't...YoHoChecko wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022 11:45I think the discrepancy in opinions of the OLine lie not in whether or not it "sucked," but in whether or not it was a strength of our 2021 team or just a contributing unit that didn't let us down most of the time.
And the answer is that the OL was pretty average because the players who bring it up from average to strength were injured. Our literal two best OL were out for a combined 26 games and the OL still held up. That made it a strength of the roster and an average unit on the field, if that makes sense.
Moving forward, we have a starting 5 that can be at least as good as last year (Bakh, JRJ, Myers, Newman, Nijman) with the eventual return of Jenkins adding strength to the unit.
To me, that makes it really tough for me to justify an iOL in the first round--especially given how successfully we have found and trained those guys later (and we retained the OL coach). To me, you re-sign David Kelly who filled in fairly admirably at RT for OT depth, and you draft a guy who can challenge for RG/RT duties into the future. I have to think now that Jenkins is our RT of the future, and that Nijman and Kelly can hold it down until then.
Now, Green is ideally an iOL at the next level, rather than an OT (in my view and most of the people I read). So he could do that. But we'd essentially be drafting a guy to replace Newman after only one year of development. Surely Newman needs to improve his awareness in pass blocking (I think he was a more than adequate run blocker), but he was a 4th round rookie and I see no reason not to expect improvement there.
I think we need depth--maybe even 2 OL in this draft though I'd prefer not. But I don't see any reason to use a resource higher than pick 92. Ideally, no higher than pick 132. It depends on what the team thinks of guys like Hansen and Cole Van Lanen. I don't have much faith in CVL, honestly. He's a cute hometown story that looked entirely out of his depth in year one practices and camp. He'll likely improve but I don't see a starting quality player emerging from him. Hansen maybe can get to an EDS level interior reserve, but likely not even to a Lucas Patrick level, as Patrick had more athleticism by far.
Instead we got "OK, kinda average to good! Surpringly, not a weakness!". I was more than fine with that, and all those snaps will help the guys to elevate their games for the upcoming season. And if the top talent is healthy, it can be one helluva line.
So yeah, keep drafting 'em when value aligns, 5 starting spots out of 22 starters requires constant investment. But there's no panic.
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Yeah, though it's worth noting that Nijman was, athletically, the most gifted of the group. I mean his measurables are freakshow. He was just a raw, untrained ball of potential and the team spent two full years developing him, even keeping him on the active roster at times rather than just the PS to keep it going. And we clearly have a scheme that maximizes the OL effectiveness and a coach that is excellent at developing guys. So taking an athletic freakshow with enough dedication to do the work paid off for us. But Nijman was a 3-year project to get to that point.salmar80 wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022 12:18I mean, looking at the name list of our OL and the resumés of the ones injured for majority of last season, it had the potential to be THE worst OL in my time following the Packers. Even worse than the post-Sherman line featuring Will Whitticker. At least he was drafted, whereas Nijman wasn't...
Even so, if we retain Kelly, I'm not sure Nijman wins the RT job to start the season ahead of him. He's so much more finesse. He feels like a LT-only and has never been noted by anyone to have even practiced on the other side.
But as NCF pointed out somewhere, we can't count on retaining him. We're already paying Bakh a zillion dollars. A starting-caliber LT--even just an average one--will likely be too rich to retain assuming we also keep Jenkins. That's why I say we may need 2 OL... interior depth and future swing tackle behind Bakh and Jenkins. But we can also wait on the future swing tackle pretty easily so long as we keep a veteran RT around this year (and can use a veteran RT again next year for depth, since we seem to find one every year)
My decision to go with Green there was a mix of different factors:YoHoChecko wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022 11:45Moving forward, we have a starting 5 that can be at least as good as last year (Bakh, JRJ, Myers, Newman, Nijman) with the eventual return of Jenkins adding strength to the unit.
To me, that makes it really tough for me to justify an iOL in the first round--especially given how successfully we have found and trained those guys later (and we retained the OL coach). To me, you re-sign David Kelly who filled in fairly admirably at RT for OT depth, and you draft a guy who can challenge for RG/RT duties into the future. I have to think now that Jenkins is our RT of the future, and that Nijman and Kelly can hold it down until then.
Now, Green is ideally an iOL at the next level, rather than an OT (in my view and most of the people I read). So he could do that. But we'd essentially be drafting a guy to replace Newman after only one year of development. Surely Newman needs to improve his awareness in pass blocking (I think he was a more than adequate run blocker), but he was a 4th round rookie and I see no reason not to expect improvement there.
1.) I think our strategy for rounds 1 & 2 should be one pick for need (basically only one: WR), one for Value/BPA ala TT -- and any position you can make a reasonable argument for (basically everything other than QB, RB, or CB) is fair game.
2.) My draft philosophy -- a good drafter fills needs, a great drafter creates dominant position groups on the roster (some picks do both at once). I would argue OL is of moderately-high need, and ensuring its strength will do wonders for our O. We can get by with what we have, but there's *a lot* of room for improvement. All three previous playoff exits were due to a lack of offense; OL was a big part each time.
I agree Runyan and/or Newman can work out as our starting Gs, but neither are such exceptional talents that I would feel too bad about benching one for a star player there -- least of all if it elevates our O to run on any opponent and keeps Rodgers clean! Quite the opposite, I would feel great knowing that my OL is that deep and strong.
If we keep Jenkins at G, I also see Green as a high-end RT. We could re-sign Kelly, yes. We haven't, though. More pertinently, he was a decent fill-in but not a guy we want starting; the SF loss made that clear. You can say that was a bad call by MLF for that particular match-up, but that's what happens when you don't have a guy clearly good enough to keep Kelly on the bench, which Nijman was not given the decision to bench him. Nijman gets the job done but like with Runyan or Newman, he's not a star, not someone who elevates us.
Last edited by Labrev on 31 Mar 2022 14:20, edited 2 times in total.
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I am getting more and more open to taking OL early on.
My last mock I took Penning 28, but Green was a consideration.
Not backed by anything, but I feel like interior OL has a lower bust rate than tackles who often get over drafted. I love the upside of Penning, keeping Jenkins inside to eventually move to LT. But I feel like Green would just be a much safer pick and much quicker to contribute a high level and you just know Elgton is gunna be fine wherever.
My last mock I took Penning 28, but Green was a consideration.
Not backed by anything, but I feel like interior OL has a lower bust rate than tackles who often get over drafted. I love the upside of Penning, keeping Jenkins inside to eventually move to LT. But I feel like Green would just be a much safer pick and much quicker to contribute a high level and you just know Elgton is gunna be fine wherever.
Strength at OL is more important than ever with:
(1) Rodgers's legs starting to go (and him always having been a bit on the fragile side);
(2) loss of Adams, the one WR who reliably got open quickly, making pass-pro more of a need;
(3) the need to transition to more of a run game. Dillon was okay last year because he can make yards. Jones had a down year; we need him to bounce back. It's time to plow open some lanes.
There are a number of other questions I have at OL, for that matter: is Bakhtiari's knee going to fully heal, or did he mess it up such that Jenkins or Nijman will have to move to LT full-time? Will Myers stay healthy and play well? If not one or the other, Best 5 OL could mean Jenkins at C. It's early yet, and Myers gave us reasons for optimism, but between injuries or not progressing on schedule, "bust" is well within the realm of possibility. How long will Jenkins be out, how long do we want to go without one (or both, if worst-case strikes) of our two star-OL?
Looking at our current group of (Bakh(?)--JRJ--Myers--Newman--Nijman +Jenkins) I feel okay, but I do not feel jacked. We have very few other needs, so why not make it a strength, especially given how better OL play will elevate all other offensive position groups' success?
(1) Rodgers's legs starting to go (and him always having been a bit on the fragile side);
(2) loss of Adams, the one WR who reliably got open quickly, making pass-pro more of a need;
(3) the need to transition to more of a run game. Dillon was okay last year because he can make yards. Jones had a down year; we need him to bounce back. It's time to plow open some lanes.
There are a number of other questions I have at OL, for that matter: is Bakhtiari's knee going to fully heal, or did he mess it up such that Jenkins or Nijman will have to move to LT full-time? Will Myers stay healthy and play well? If not one or the other, Best 5 OL could mean Jenkins at C. It's early yet, and Myers gave us reasons for optimism, but between injuries or not progressing on schedule, "bust" is well within the realm of possibility. How long will Jenkins be out, how long do we want to go without one (or both, if worst-case strikes) of our two star-OL?
Looking at our current group of (Bakh(?)--JRJ--Myers--Newman--Nijman +Jenkins) I feel okay, but I do not feel jacked. We have very few other needs, so why not make it a strength, especially given how better OL play will elevate all other offensive position groups' success?
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“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
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I am on board with OL help, I just think that you can build it into a strength without first round picks and that our current regime seems to really focus on high-value positions in the early rounds (Savage at safety could be considered an exception, but the elite athleticism he brings somewhat mitigates that).
I think, especially the interior OL, is really deep with guys who have the skillset to develop, especially some of the smaller school guys.
Cole Strange from Chattanooga; Dylan Parham from Memphis; Luke Goedeke from Central Michigan; Zac Tom from Wake Forest
I'm also not sure why some guys like Cade Mays from Tennessee are so far down int he draft (I sorta feel like Tennessee players are pretty regularly under-drafted because they recruit some elite talent but not enough to compete in the SEC and the team struggles make everyone look a little worse).
I just think there are better ways to make OL a strength than drafting a round one guard when we've made a habit of turning potential into gold at the position, and have the scheme, front office, and coach to think we can continue to do so.
I think, especially the interior OL, is really deep with guys who have the skillset to develop, especially some of the smaller school guys.
Cole Strange from Chattanooga; Dylan Parham from Memphis; Luke Goedeke from Central Michigan; Zac Tom from Wake Forest
I'm also not sure why some guys like Cade Mays from Tennessee are so far down int he draft (I sorta feel like Tennessee players are pretty regularly under-drafted because they recruit some elite talent but not enough to compete in the SEC and the team struggles make everyone look a little worse).
I just think there are better ways to make OL a strength than drafting a round one guard when we've made a habit of turning potential into gold at the position, and have the scheme, front office, and coach to think we can continue to do so.
I don't have a problem with that approach at all. That's more what I'm expecting them to do than what I did, anyway.YoHoChecko wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022 14:29I am on board with OL help, I just think that you can build it into a strength without first round picks and that our current regime seems to really focus on high-value positions in the early rounds (Savage at safety could be considered an exception, but the elite athleticism he brings somewhat mitigates that).
Where I think we may disagree is, I think OL in 1 is as good of an option to achieve that goal, and that an argument can be made for it being a better way to go about it (and with no real needs other than WR, we might as well), for a couple of reasons...
For one, I would consider most OL spots to be "high-value" positions. And at 28/late 1st? Any OL position can be reasonably drafted.
Two, I don't think it would be that much of a deviation from our usual drafting. Jenkins was a mid-high 2nd-round pick and has been an absolute rock on the OL. We could have taken him where we took Savage and nobody today would argue with it, other than with hindsight of knowing he was available later. So a similar pick at 28 is well within our current guys' philosophy.
Three, most importantly, Star Power. Sure, any one of the guys you named could become star players, but your odds of landing that star player is way better early in the draft than later. We like to point to Lang and Sitton, but that was a while ago, no longer a recent example. Odds are more likely that the guys you named will be Runyan or Newman than Lang or Sitton.
I'd ideally like more than just comparably-talented OL to "push" Runyan/Newman/Nijman; I want a substantial Upgrade, a guy with the ability to be dominant. Again, not saying that can't theoretically be found in the mids, but the guys who most clearly have that ability go Days 1 & 2.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
I liked Green and so does Daniel Jeremiah, the bit about de cleating, and sealing back side lbers caught my attention, put him with Jenkins and Myers and Dillon gonna truckLabrev wrote: ↑31 Mar 2022 14:16Strength at OL is more important than ever with:
(1) Rodgers's legs starting to go (and him always having been a bit on the fragile side);
(2) loss of Adams, the one WR who reliably got open quickly, making pass-pro more of a need;
(3) the need to transition to more of a run game. Dillon was okay last year because he can make yards. Jones had a down year; we need him to bounce back. It's time to plow open some lanes.
There are a number of other questions I have at OL, for that matter: is Bakhtiari's knee going to fully heal, or did he mess it up such that Jenkins or Nijman will have to move to LT full-time? Will Myers stay healthy and play well? If not one or the other, Best 5 OL could mean Jenkins at C. It's early yet, and Myers gave us reasons for optimism, but between injuries or not progressing on schedule, "bust" is well within the realm of possibility. How long will Jenkins be out, how long do we want to go without one (or both, if worst-case strikes) of our two star-OL?
Looking at our current group of (Bakh(?)--JRJ--Myers--Newman--Nijman +Jenkins) I feel okay, but I do not feel jacked. We have very few other needs, so why not make it a strength, especially given how better OL play will elevate all other offensive position groups' success?
Rank
28
7
Kenyon Green
Kenyon Green
Texas A&M · IOL · Junior
Green is a big, powerful prospect with nimble feet and versatility. The 6-4, 325-pounder lined up at four of the five OL positions in 2021, and is at his best at guard. In pass protection, he has quick feet and can bend and drop his weight before shooting his hands. He has a very firm anchor versus power rushers. When he's uncovered, he looks for work and delivers some de-cleating shots. In the run game, Green rolls his hips on contact and has the ability to wash defenders right down the line. He has the quickness to reach and seal on the backside. He is also very quick to the second level, but will get overaggressive at times and hit the deck. Overall, Green's ability to create a firm pocket should be highly coveted around the league.
we like versatile O lineman, and according to Jeremiah this is a weak OL class, I wouldn't know about that.