From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
I got the impression that they wanted to play a bunch of zone but the secondary couldn't communicate well enough to know who was covering where. You're right, that responsibility goes up to Barry and even LaFleur, but I tend to think Gray is most responsible for that specific deficiency.
From comments I've read - zone coverage requires players who all see things similarly and have the green light to play their assignment to what they are seeing. Opponents use motions/shifts etc. to mess all that up... and were too successful, too often. I believe this was the source of some angst between Barry, Gray and the DBs.
We also know there were some behind the scenes issues with Savage - he's typically the guy charged with getting the DBs aligned.
Benching a starter is a significant move, glad to see Savage responded well. But he likely contributed to the problems as much as the coaches
Packers secondary as ranked # 14 in opponent passer rating at 88 ( 86.2 in 2021)
Packers secondary was ranked # 10 in passing TDs allowed with 1.3/ gm ( 1.7 in 2021 )
I think Gray is a good coach and his players obviously liked him, but I just think the fit with him and Barry wasn't ideal and I think Barry getting his own guy can help improve things. We'll see.
well said
Gray has coached for 8 different NFL teams ( including as a DC) and alongside some very talented defensive minds. He's seen it all.
But Zimmer got tired of Gray for some reason and apparently there are philosophical issues with Barry in GB. If MLF is going to die on Joe Barry Hill, then it makes sense to get Joe a DB coach who shares his defensive outlook.
This is a HUGE hire for MLF and Barry - and I really think they need to look outside the org and outside their buddy list on this one
I think Gray is a good coach and his players obviously liked him, but I just think the fit with him and Barry wasn't ideal and I think Barry getting his own guy can help improve things. We'll see.
well said
Gray has coached for 8 different NFL teams ( including as a DC) and alongside some very talented defensive minds. He's seen it all.
But Zimmer got tired of Gray for some reason and apparently there are philosophical issues with Barry in GB. If MLF is going to die on Joe Barry Hill, then it makes sense to get Joe a DB coach who shares his defensive outlook.
This is a HUGE hire for MLF and Barry - and I really think they need to look outside the org and outside their buddy list on this one
Don't count on it. MLF only hires his friends, that is how Barry got the job in the first place.
I think Gray is a good coach and his players obviously liked him, but I just think the fit with him and Barry wasn't ideal and I think Barry getting his own guy can help improve things. We'll see.
well said
Gray has coached for 8 different NFL teams ( including as a DC) and alongside some very talented defensive minds. He's seen it all.
But Zimmer got tired of Gray for some reason and apparently there are philosophical issues with Barry in GB. If MLF is going to die on Joe Barry Hill, then it makes sense to get Joe a DB coach who shares his defensive outlook.
This is a HUGE hire for MLF and Barry - and I really think they need to look outside the org and outside their buddy list on this one
Don't count on it. MLF only hires his friends, that is how Barry got the job in the first place.
this caught my eye as I was googling for quality and available defensive coaches to fill the void of the departed Johnny Gray position
How do you defend five eligible receivers and the 57,600 square feet of grass they can run through on a football field? You can try to run with each receiver, you can cover areas of the field, or you use a combination of the techniques. Coverages could be the most complex part of the game because there are so many ways to do it. To simplify things, we can bucket coverages into four categories: man, zone, zone match, or man match. Each type of coverage has its strengths and weaknesses and requires different skills from the players running them.
Explaining the four coverage categories: Man, zone, zone match and man match
Pretty sure that Detroit’s defensive resurgence, such as it was, coincided with Pleasant’s mid season firing.
Hiring Pleasant to replace Gray would be both underwhelming and unsurprising.
It helped playing the Packers twice.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
"He can be one of the top quarterbacks in the NFL":
A chat with the man who knows Jordan Love best
I guess now he’s on Aaron’s time, Green Bay’s time. It seems like you’re tight with the Packers. What’s that relationship like? What’s their belief in Jordan right now?
Calhoun: I don’t have that, “Hey, I’m going to call up Coach LaFleur.” I ran into him at the Combine and said, “Hey, I’m Coach Steve Calhoun.” He said, “OK, it’s good to put the face with the name. I know Jordan works with you in the offseason.” I just asked if there’s anything he sees in practice he wants to address in the offseason, let me know and I’ll send you film of his workouts and you can critique it. We’re all on the same page. We’re all in the boat rowing the same direction. We all want success, not only for Jordan but for the organization.
Aaron Jones is like my nephew. Him and my son are best friends because they played together in college — Aaron and Alvin call me “Uncle Steve” because I was tight with their Dad. And then Rob Tonyan, I’ve known him since college when he was a quarterback at Indiana State. So I’ve been training him since then, even since he came out with Detroit. I know Tyler Davis, the other tight end. I trained him when he came out of college.
I’ll talk to Jordan and then I’ll call Aaron, I’ll call Rob, I’ll call Tyler: “What else are you guys seeing?” They all have different perspectives on how Jordan’s doing.'
.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
That World Championship was brought to us in large part by 3 incredible football guys...
who 12 years later are hated on by a substantial segment of the fan base
That World Championship was brought to us in large part by 3 incredible football guys...
who 12 years later are hated on by a substantial segment of the fan base
Aaron Rodgers
Mike McCarthy
Dom Capers
I guess you could boil it down that way, if you want, but I think these guys had a lot to do with it as well:
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Speaking only for myself, I never hated Capers. His bad defenses correlated with abysmal talent, failure to replace huge losses like Woodson, Collins, and Shields. I was a TT fan generally but I think the poor defenses were largely on him.
Once the talent was back up to par, Dom's defenses were fine: not great, but good enough to win with, which is all you can really ask when you run your team through an Elite QB and top offense. We were right to move on when we did, but he was not a problem, much less 'the' problem.
I am probably the only Packer fan in the world with that opinion, yet I will 100% die on that hill.
I still think Mac is mediocre but now that it's not coming at my team's expense, he's no longer the source of ire for me, in fact I find it kind of endearing now. I similarly won't get worked up over Rodgers when he chokes another team's season away, not my problem. My hate for Mac then and Rodgers now was/is purely strategic, not emotional.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
I guess you could boil it down that way, if you want, but I think these guys had a lot to do with it as well
And perhaps most importantly...
That was one NFLN about 2-3 Fridays ago. It was an amazing comeback.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
That World Championship was brought to us in large part by 3 incredible football guys...
who 12 years later are hated on by a substantial segment of the fan base
Aaron Rodgers
Mike McCarthy
Dom Capers
I guess you could boil it down that way, if you want, but I think these guys had a lot to do with it as well:
Yup. That Super Bowl was also Jordy’s coming out.
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
Speaking only for myself, I never hated Capers. His bad defenses correlated with abysmal talent, failure to replace huge losses like Woodson, Collins, and Shields. I was a TT fan generally but I think the poor defenses were largely on him.
Once the talent was back up to par, Dom's defenses were fine: not great, but good enough to win with, which is all you can really ask when you run your team through an Elite QB and top offense. We were right to move on when we did, but he was not a problem, much less 'the' problem.
I am probably the only Packer fan in the world with that opinion, yet I will 100% die on that hill.
I still think Mac is mediocre but now that it's not coming at my team's expense, he's no longer the source of ire for me, in fact I find it kind of endearing now. I similarly won't get worked up over Rodgers when he chokes another team's season away, not my problem. My hate for Mac then and Rodgers now was/is purely strategic, not emotional.
finally a top 15 finish in 2015, but that defense, along with decent offense couldn't over come the $%&# affect, or the lack of run blocking.
agree, the problem wasn't Capers, we still lacked at safety and lber, and we where seeing the decline of the WR position, from great, to mediocre.
