Joe Barry reportedly to be hired as DC

[Yoop]

Yeah hes not perfect for the spot either. But a big upgrade from our previous options in my opinion. That said, think of that play where we asked Campbell to pretty much do the impossible and cover Hockenson on the play where he scored on the pretty much unguardable pass, I would like to see less Campbell and more someone like King picking up the coverage on a play like that. King is not small.

Campbell played that poorly, the lber has to disrupt that route or he'll ne beaten every time, Dougherty said Stokes should have come off his man and defended that over the top.

whatever we say concerning King or Sullivan about last year has to include that our secondary was rated 9th last year, we saw both give up big plays, but over all they played pretty well, the big boney's is what we fix on though as fans

Honestly not sure what you are arguing with me about.

I said I think King or a safety would be better equipped to cover an elite TE like Hockensen, do you disagree?

I said I dont think king will be perfect or elite in the slot, but I think he is far better than Sullivan, do you disagree?

Finally, I said Stokes, Jaire, King on inside, and Amos and Savage at safety is probably going to be the most complete secondary unit we have had in years, do you disagree?

sorry for not wording that better, but I was agreeing with you, just worded your comments diff.

[Pckfn23]

Definitely didn't play it poorly, may have been able to play it a bit better. He got picked a bit and was right in his hip pocket. Not a lot he could have done and his own coaches talked about that.

[NCF]

but there is actually a fairly big window to drop that ball in, too much green between Hock and sideline.

He comes from the slot. Campbell is on his inside hip the entire time. No one can squeeze that any harder. Goff dropped it in the bucket. I don't know what people expect, but I still say that was damn near perfect coverage and the QB/TE made a really nice play.

[Drj820]

It is a tall order and it was a perfect throw and a perfect catch, but you gotta force him a little tighter to the sideline there. Gunna have to agree with mike here (I think, because I'm really quite sure what he is disagreeing with, but I agree with his comment).


Now I am not sure if Campbell is capable of doing that to a guy like Hockenson, so might be some bigger issues there in terms of personnel, play call, but there is actually a fairly big window to drop that ball in, too much green between Hock and sideline.

Even if he was supposed to have deeper help there, it wasn't particularly 'good' coverage. Again, maybe not a knock because he physically might not be able to do it to such an athletic tight end. So going forward, let's try not to put him in that situation.

I believe he is physically not up for that tasks, so therefore I take blame off of him and put it on the coaches for putting him in that position. Also, sometimes there isnt anyone to harshly blame...that was just a great throw to a great TE. But I would blame Barry overall.

[BF004]

but there is actually a fairly big window to drop that ball in, too much green between Hock and sideline.

He comes from the slot. Campbell is on his inside hip the entire time. No one can squeeze that any harder. Goff dropped it in the bucket. I don't know what people expect, but I still say that was damn near perfect coverage and the QB/TE made a really nice play.

I am not expecting DeVondre Campbell to hold that coverage, that is what I am saying. But it wasn't 'good' coverage, certainly not perfect or even near. Was about as good as maybe he could do.

But maybe he shouldn't be covering Hockenson 1 on 1 on the slot. Perhaps Amos or Savage or even King or Sullivan?

If we keep doing that this year, I think there are going to be a lot fairly easy TD's given up to TE's.

[Yoop]

It is a tall order and it was a perfect throw and a perfect catch, but you gotta force him a little tighter to the sideline there. Gunna have to agree with mike here (I think, because I'm really quite sure what he is disagreeing with, but I agree with his comment).


Now I am not sure if Campbell is capable of doing that to a guy like Hockenson, so might be some bigger issues there in terms of personnel, play call, but there is actually a fairly big window to drop that ball in, too much green between Hock and sideline.

Even if he was supposed to have deeper help there, it wasn't particularly 'good' coverage. Again, maybe not a knock because he physically might not be able to do it to such an athletic tight end. So going forward, let's try not to put him in that situation.

Campbell could have easily jammed him which would have thrown Hock off his route, thats how he is taught to play that, but the bigger fail was on our rookie Stokes for staying with double coverage so long after the ball left the QB's hand, if he had moved towards the edge he would have been in over the top position.

maybe Hock would have still caught it , or if Campbell had fronted up Hock Goff might have looked elsewhere to throw the ball.

[Drj820]

But maybe he shouldn't be covering Hockenson 1 on 1 on the slot. Perhaps Amos or Savage or even King or Sullivan?

We are on same page

Way too big on a task for Campbell.

[go pak go]

but there is actually a fairly big window to drop that ball in, too much green between Hock and sideline.

He comes from the slot. Campbell is on his inside hip the entire time. No one can squeeze that any harder. Goff dropped it in the bucket. I don't know what people expect, but I still say that was damn near perfect coverage and the QB/TE made a really nice play.

I am not expecting DeVondre Campbell to hold that coverage, that is what I am saying. But it wasn't 'good' coverage. Was about as good as maybe he could do.

But maybe he shouldn't be covering Hockenson 1 on 1 on the slot. Perhaps Amos or Savage or even King or Sullivan?

If we keep doing that this year, I think there are going to be a lot fairly easy TD's given up to TE's.

I'm interested to see if they put Kevin King in the slot again this week with the intent on staying on guys like Kittle. I'm hopeful they can find a role for King and that this could be part of that role of being in slot to cover your less "agility" guys.

[Yoop]

but there is actually a fairly big window to drop that ball in, too much green between Hock and sideline.

He comes from the slot. Campbell is on his inside hip the entire time. No one can squeeze that any harder. Goff dropped it in the bucket. I don't know what people expect, but I still say that was damn near perfect coverage and the QB/TE made a really nice play.

Campbell had to know he's a mis match against Hock, so what you do is disrupt the route, why get into a race around that edge against him specially with a pic play possibility, Campbell has to jam him, thats his best possibility to destroy that play, yes it was a great throw and catch, I wont argue that, but my lead in to this conversation mimicks what DR> J just said, we have other players much better suited to cover that play, as I said we need to have hybrid lbers covering players like Hock.

[Pckfn23]

Campbell could have easily jammed him which would have thrown Hock off his route

No, he couldn't as Hockenson is in the slot, off the line. It is very very tough to jam when the receiver is off the line. Given that Hockenson is a superior athlete that is just not a technique that will work in that situation.

thats how he is taught to play that

He is? You were in the LB room?

Is his coverage 100% perfect, no. Is is it bad or poor? Also no

[NCF]

But maybe he shouldn't be covering Hockenson 1 on 1 on the slot. Perhaps Amos or Savage or even King or Sullivan?

We're matching their 11 personnel with our Nickel. Remember, we all got mad when Pettine continued to trot out Dime against these looks. Need a LB to cover someone. My point is I disagree that Campbell vs Hockenson is a schematic match-up failure there.

[BF004]

He comes from the slot. Campbell is on his inside hip the entire time. No one can squeeze that any harder. Goff dropped it in the bucket. I don't know what people expect, but I still say that was damn near perfect coverage and the QB/TE made a really nice play.

I am not expecting DeVondre Campbell to hold that coverage, that is what I am saying. But it wasn't 'good' coverage. Was about as good as maybe he could do.

But maybe he shouldn't be covering Hockenson 1 on 1 on the slot. Perhaps Amos or Savage or even King or Sullivan?

If we keep doing that this year, I think there are going to be a lot fairly easy TD's given up to TE's.

I'm interested to see if they put Kevin King in the slot again this week with the intent on staying on guys like Kittle. I'm hopeful they can find a role for King and that this could be part of that role of being in slot to cover your less "agility" guys.

Maybe in spots, but Detroit doesn't really have those small shifty WR's. That is pretty much all SF has. Just don't like the matchup as much this week with King inside, unless it is on Kittle or Sanu.

[go pak go]

I am not expecting DeVondre Campbell to hold that coverage, that is what I am saying. But it wasn't 'good' coverage. Was about as good as maybe he could do.

But maybe he shouldn't be covering Hockenson 1 on 1 on the slot. Perhaps Amos or Savage or even King or Sullivan?

If we keep doing that this year, I think there are going to be a lot fairly easy TD's given up to TE's.

I'm interested to see if they put Kevin King in the slot again this week with the intent on staying on guys like Kittle. I'm hopeful they can find a role for King and that this could be part of that role of being in slot to cover your less "agility" guys.

Maybe in spots, but Detroit doesn't really have those small shifty WR's. That is pretty much all SF has. Just don't like the matchup as much this week with King inside, unless it is on Kittle or Sanu.

And that's primarily who I am meaning. I would expect to see some more Jaire in the slot this week too like we saw last week with King an Stokes on the outside.

My hope is they can figure out to carve out a role for King while at the same time not making it obvious what the defensive play will be when they see King in a specific spot.

I also think this is a good week to bring your safeties up. The advantage I am hoping for there is we have Alexander and Stokes who prove themselves of being to be to not get beat deep over the top due to speed which allows Savage and Amos to play up front on the run as well as taking coverage of those agility guys.

[BF004]

King did have some freaky good COD at the combine. Isn't always reflected on the field, but it is there. He is certainly good enough to have a role, get the guy a little confidence back and he could be really good in smaller, protected role. He is willingly physical, so I don't hate him in the slot.

[lupedafiasco]

I have absolutely no problem with that play. Cambpells coverage was tight and forced a tough throw and tough catch. Goff had just a couple yards to work with in the back of the end zone and Hockenson had to catch it over his shoulder. You put a DB on that and probably the same thing happens. Just a great play on offense.

[BSA]

from Sharp Football

What makes the Fangio/Staley/Barry defense work ? I snagged a couple snippets, but the entire article is worth a read

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/a ... ense-2021/

"...But what makes the defense work is not just that the two-high shell turns into Cover 2 or Quarters coverage with two deep safeties playing the pass at a high rate. Both Staley and Fangio use those pre-snap shells to disguise the coverage and still often rotate to a single-high coverage.
...The safety rotation worked well in coverage and one of the reasons is how much the structure of the defense works in the run game. The two-high shell presents the opposing offense with a light box, which can make it inviting to run the ball. The secret, of course, is that these defenses have their run fits structured to still be sound and effective against the run while more resources can be used to defend the pass.

In this defense, the line plays a gap-and-a-half which still allows linemen to play aggressively but also gives some protection for the second-level defenders who will need to fit the run behind them.

What gave Staley an advantage there were some of the odd-man fronts he deployed. The Rams’ most used personnel grouping was a 3-3-5 (three linemen, three linebackers, and five defensive backs), though two of those linebackers played on the edge, which produced more of a 5-1 look.

Each piece of the defense plays a part in why it works so well. Just using a two-high shell isn’t going to cut it. Presenting a light box without the run fits to keep the ground game contained doesn’t make an impact (looking at you, Mike Pettine Packers). We’re going to see more teams try to implement these tactics in an effort to keep up with modern offenses.

.

This article is from back in August - and is exactly what we've been seeing with the 3-3-5 alignment and playing the ILBs on the edge in nickel.
Adding Jaylon Smith to the defense takes Burks out and gives Barry a better line up to work with on Sunday. Stout vs run, but still protecting the back end. And with the depleted CB crew- its important for the Safeties to help in coverage...and still not get gashed by the run.
.

[RingoCStarrQB]

After 5 weeks the D is ranked 17th. Huh you say? Hard to imagine a massive turnaround yet.

ITS TIME FOR A SHUTOUT in CHI-TOWN against a rookie QB!

[Labrev]

For the most part, I've really liked how our defense has looked since the second half of Week 2. Some things to clean up (namely, RZ Defense) but it has been fun to watch lately -- lots of energy, pretty aggressive approach in general.

Props to Joe Barry for his role in that. Clark also really turned it up and Campbell has been a revelation. 'Hope they can keep it up (fingers crossed we can get Z and Alex back)...

[go pak go]

For the most part, I've really liked how our defense has looked since the second half of Week 2. Some things to clean up (namely, RZ Defense) but it has been fun to watch lately -- lots of energy, pretty aggressive approach in general.

Props to Joe Barry for his role in that. Clark also really turned it up and Campbell has been a revelation. 'Hope they can keep it up (fingers crossed we can get Z and Alex back)...

Same. This defense has been awesome and getting better and better.

I chaulk up the Bengals win to the defnese. I can't think of many games in 2020 where we won because of the defense.

[Pugger]

I too think we can all say Barry is an upgrade at DC over the last 2 we've had. I can't imagine this group playing like this after losing impact players if we had Capers or Pettine today. Perhaps MLF knows what he is doing as HC?