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If the QB is doing this, they need to sit their ass on the bench. QB progression should not be based on his "faith" in his receivers. That completely negates play design.
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play, football 10 fking 0ne.
and I have no interest in talking to you, please don't tag my post
It seems like you are saying two different things here in your original post and your reply yoop. There's a difference between passing a receiver on a given play if he wasn't open, for a variety of reasons. He could be out of position (which can only be known by us outsiders if we had inner knowledge of the routes/adjustments on the play), if he slips, if he is covered, etc. Obviously once you go past a player on progressions, the only way you would likely target him is if the play goes into scramble mode- which is almost a new play of sorts.
When you say the QB changes the order of the reads, I would agree with 23 that this is not acceptable, as the progressions are in a given order based on the structure of the play.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
I do find it odd so many knock Rodgers for not having more Super Bowls and the same criticism isn’t applied to the GM who has entirely more control over the outcome of the team than the QB.
Who is knocking Rodgers for not having more Super Bowls?
There is a misunderstanding between the two parties:
1) - I will absolutely say Rodgers not winning more than 1 ring does impact his legacy in being in that next tier. I think there is something to be said for rising up in the postseason and Rodgers just hasn't consistently done that. He didn't have the Mahommes postseason. He has for a game. But not a string of games.
2) - I however never wanted to "fire" Rodgers or say his performance was unforgiveable until I saw the actual team window end. Moving on from Rodgers is far more about the state of the Packers than it was about Rodgers. It was and is clearly time. We had a great shot in 2020 and 2021 and didn't get it done. It was easy to see we would never be that good again so I was ready to reload and move on. But again. Rodgers time is done and not winning another ring is part of that legacy calculation.
As for BG, he too didn't win one. That will be part of his legacy. He did have weak spots on his roster. That being said, I don't blame a GM for poor team building when his players were in position and just didn't make the play. Hard for me to blame BG for a Davante Adams TD drop which would have been enough for us.
BG isn't legendary status GM. Nobody is putting him there. But he also isn't "needs to be fired now GM". As usual, this place is so extreme it is absolutely ridiculous. It is so ridiculous that the group that is saying, "3 13 win seasons is enough to see how 2023 and 2024 goes" is somehow a radical thought.
If the QB is doing this, they need to sit their ass on the bench. QB progression should not be based on his "faith" in his receivers. That completely negates play design.
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play, football 10 fking 0ne.
and I have no interest in talking to you, please don't tag my post
It seems like you are saying two different things here in your original post and your reply yoop. There's a difference between passing a receiver on a given play if he wasn't open, for a variety of reasons. He could be out of position (which can only be known by us outsiders if we had inner knowledge of the routes/adjustments on the play), if he slips, if he is covered, etc. Obviously once you go past a player on progressions, the only way you would likely target him is if the play goes into scramble mode- which is almost a new play of sorts.
When you say the QB changes the order of the reads, I would agree with 23 that this is not acceptable, as the progressions are in a given order based on the structure of the play.
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play.
where did I say he changes the route sequence, he does, but that isn't the point of my post Matt, obviously he changes the sequence at times from the called play route progressions when the defense reads and adjust, but when the first or second read is covered he can't what on that receiver he has to move to number 3 and so on.
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play, football 10 fking 0ne.
and I have no interest in talking to you, please don't tag my post
It seems like you are saying two different things here in your original post and your reply yoop. There's a difference between passing a receiver on a given play if he wasn't open, for a variety of reasons. He could be out of position (which can only be known by us outsiders if we had inner knowledge of the routes/adjustments on the play), if he slips, if he is covered, etc. Obviously once you go past a player on progressions, the only way you would likely target him is if the play goes into scramble mode- which is almost a new play of sorts.
When you say the QB changes the order of the reads, I would agree with 23 that this is not acceptable, as the progressions are in a given order based on the structure of the play.
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play.
where did I say he changes the route sequence, he does, but that isn't the point of my post Matt, obviously he changes the sequence at times from the called play route progressions when the defense reads and adjust, but when the first or second read is covered he can't what on that receiver he has to move to number 3 and so on.
That's what you said in response, which I agree with, as it's what I said too. Your original post was:
Yoop wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023 10:29
"again when the QB lacks faith in a receiver to separate, or be where he's suppose to be during route progression check points, then he automatically becomes the last read in the route tree"
Maybe you didn't mean what you typed there. If what you meant is that as the designated read he isn't in the right spot, the qb moves on to the next read, on that particular play, then I agree with what you meant, and neither of us agree with what you typed.
It seems like you are saying two different things here in your original post and your reply yoop. There's a difference between passing a receiver on a given play if he wasn't open, for a variety of reasons. He could be out of position (which can only be known by us outsiders if we had inner knowledge of the routes/adjustments on the play), if he slips, if he is covered, etc. Obviously once you go past a player on progressions, the only way you would likely target him is if the play goes into scramble mode- which is almost a new play of sorts.
When you say the QB changes the order of the reads, I would agree with 23 that this is not acceptable, as the progressions are in a given order based on the structure of the play.
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play.
where did I say he changes the route sequence, he does, but that isn't the point of my post Matt, obviously he changes the sequence at times from the called play route progressions when the defense reads and adjust, but when the first or second read is covered he can't what on that receiver he has to move to number 3 and so on.
That's what you said in response, which I agree with, as it's what I said too. Your original post was:
Yoop wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023 10:29
"again when the QB lacks faith in a receiver to separate, or be where he's suppose to be during route progression check points, then he automatically becomes the last read in the route tree"
Maybe you didn't mean what you typed there. If what you meant is that as the designated read he isn't in the right spot, the qb moves on to the next read, on that particular play, then I agree with what you meant, and neither of us agree with what you typed.
On this page as well.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
It seems like you are saying two different things here in your original post and your reply yoop. There's a difference between passing a receiver on a given play if he wasn't open, for a variety of reasons. He could be out of position (which can only be known by us outsiders if we had inner knowledge of the routes/adjustments on the play), if he slips, if he is covered, etc. Obviously once you go past a player on progressions, the only way you would likely target him is if the play goes into scramble mode- which is almost a new play of sorts.
When you say the QB changes the order of the reads, I would agree with 23 that this is not acceptable, as the progressions are in a given order based on the structure of the play.
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play.
where did I say he changes the route sequence, he does, but that isn't the point of my post Matt, obviously he changes the sequence at times from the called play route progressions when the defense reads and adjust, but when the first or second read is covered he can't what on that receiver he has to move to number 3 and so on.
That's what you said in response, which I agree with, as it's what I said too. Your original post was:
Yoop wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023 10:29
"again when the QB lacks faith in a receiver to separate, or be where he's suppose to be during route progression check points, then he automatically becomes the last read in the route tree"
Maybe you didn't mean what you typed there. If what you meant is that as the designated read he isn't in the right spot, the qb moves on to the next read, on that particular play, then I agree with what you meant, and neither of us agree with what you typed.
lets take it a step further, if a player fails to be where he's suppose to be over and over why would a QB even look his way if under pressure the second go around? I think that was part of my thinking, how many times would you look at Brown or scantling or some of the other very raw receivers Rodgers has had to work with this last decade.
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play.
where did I say he changes the route sequence, he does, but that isn't the point of my post Matt, obviously he changes the sequence at times from the called play route progressions when the defense reads and adjust, but when the first or second read is covered he can't what on that receiver he has to move to number 3 and so on.
That's what you said in response, which I agree with, as it's what I said too. Your original post was:
Yoop wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023 10:29
"again when the QB lacks faith in a receiver to separate, or be where he's suppose to be during route progression check points, then he automatically becomes the last read in the route tree"
Maybe you didn't mean what you typed there. If what you meant is that as the designated read he isn't in the right spot, the qb moves on to the next read, on that particular play, then I agree with what you meant, and neither of us agree with what you typed.
lets take it a step further, if a player fails to be where he's suppose to be over and over why would a QB even look his way if under pressure the second go around? I think that was part of my thinking, how many times would you look at Brown or scantling or some of the other very raw receivers Rodgers has had to work with this last decade.
A simple reason, actually. It's the QB's job to follow the progressions and make the correct throw. Failure to do so results in missing open receivers by locking on to who you think will be the best option before following the prescribed order of progressions- which are designed that way for good reason. In a pressure situation, there is a hot designation there as well.
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play, football 10 fking 0ne.
If by "football" you mean "Madden gameplay" then yes Football 101.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
That's what you said in response, which I agree with, as it's what I said too. Your original post was:
Yoop wrote: ↑17 Mar 2023 10:29
"again when the QB lacks faith in a receiver to separate, or be where he's suppose to be during route progression check points, then he automatically becomes the last read in the route tree"
Maybe you didn't mean what you typed there. If what you meant is that as the designated read he isn't in the right spot, the qb moves on to the next read, on that particular play, then I agree with what you meant, and neither of us agree with what you typed.
lets take it a step further, if a player fails to be where he's suppose to be over and over why would a QB even look his way if under pressure the second go around? I think that was part of my thinking, how many times would you look at Brown or scantling or some of the other very raw receivers Rodgers has had to work with this last decade.
A simple reason, actually. It's the QB's job to follow the progressions and make the correct throw. Failure to do so results in missing open receivers by locking on to who you think will be the best option before following the prescribed order of progressions- which are designed that way for good reason. In a pressure situation, there is a hot designation there as well.
how would you or I or any fan know what those right progressions are, or that a QB ( any QB) would have some receivers that will hold his attention more because he has faith in them MORE then others, once he's went through all his reads of the scripted play he will have his choice where to look next, and every QB in the league neglects to see what all 22 will say is a open receiver, every game, every team, every series of play there are open receivers the QB neglects to see, and ya know what, it has always been this way, if we'd have had all 22 years ago you'd be saying the same about most of those QB's.
people like Herman and others even say the same thing I'am telling you, they could pick apart any QB in the league, sure at times Rodgers has been guilty of polar vision, having just one guy like Adams can do that, when Rodgers had the prime Nelson, Cobb etc etc, Finley he spread the ball in every game to at least 6 or 8 different receivers, when receivers open on schedule, Rodgers will throw them the ball.
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play, football 10 fking 0ne.
If by "football" you mean "Madden gameplay" then yes Football 101.
I have never even done Madden football, not ever, but what I just said you can take to the bank, QB's don't have time to what on a receiver if he isn't where he is suppose to be
how would you or I or any fan know what those right progressions are,
Yet you say you know when the receiver runs the wrong route, or is not open on schedule... If you don't know the progression, you don't know the schedule...
every QB in the league neglects to see what all 22 will say is a open receiver, every game, every team, every series of play there are open receivers the QB neglects to see, and ya know what, it has always been this way, if we'd have had all 22 years ago you'd be saying the same about most of those QB's.
No one denies this.
people like Herman and others even say the same thing I'am telling you, they could pick apart any QB in the league, sure at times Rodgers has been guilty of polar vision, having just one guy like Adams can do that, when Rodgers had the prime Nelson, Cobb etc etc, Finley he spread the ball in every game to at least 6 or 8 different receivers, when receivers open on schedule, Rodgers will throw them the ball.
QBs will miss open guys, regardless of anything else, some more than others. Rodgers should be in the category we're that does not happen often.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
that is how it works, if the receiver fails to be at a determined point in his route when the QB reads through his progressions then he wont get looked at again, unless the QB extends the play, football 10 fking 0ne.
If by "football" you mean "Madden gameplay" then yes Football 101.
I have never even done Madden football, not ever, but what I just said you can take to the bank, QB's don't have time to what on a receiver if he isn't where he is suppose to be
That's not what your original statement was. You said a receiver that can't be trusted automatically becomes the last read.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
lets take it a step further, if a player fails to be where he's suppose to be over and over why would a QB even look his way if under pressure the second go around? I think that was part of my thinking, how many times would you look at Brown or scantling or some of the other very raw receivers Rodgers has had to work with this last decade.
A simple reason, actually. It's the QB's job to follow the progressions and make the correct throw. Failure to do so results in missing open receivers by locking on to who you think will be the best option before following the prescribed order of progressions- which are designed that way for good reason. In a pressure situation, there is a hot designation there as well.
how would you or I or any fan know what those right progressions are, or that a QB ( any QB) would have some receivers that will hold his attention more because he has faith in them MORE then others,
Well if there is one thing I have learned on this forum...the only one who does know is yoop.
You are the only one who constantly knows the receiver is in the wrong no matter what the All 22 or images, or other sources say.
It's the foundation of every one of your arguments.
Sorry. I accidentally used the wrong word. Not receiver. 3 stooges
A simple reason, actually. It's the QB's job to follow the progressions and make the correct throw. Failure to do so results in missing open receivers by locking on to who you think will be the best option before following the prescribed order of progressions- which are designed that way for good reason. In a pressure situation, there is a hot designation there as well.
how would you or I or any fan know what those right progressions are, or that a QB ( any QB) would have some receivers that will hold his attention more because he has faith in them MORE then others,
Well if there is one thing I have learned on this forum...the only one who does know is yoop.
You are the only one who constantly knows the receiver is in the wrong no matter what the All 22 or images, or other sources say.
It's the foundation of every one of your arguments.
Sorry. I accidentally used the wrong word. Not receiver. 3 stooges
we don't know who is the #1 read till the ball is snapped, and when the receiver is not at the pitch point, I feel confident that where the ball ended up wasn't the QB's fault, and when a QB throws a sideline pass and the receiver is 5 yrds from the side lines I figure the receiver screwed up, when 2 receivers run into a two stack zone, right away the first thought that pops into my head it was the QB's fault, sarcasm alert
how would you or I or any fan know what those right progressions are, or that a QB ( any QB) would have some receivers that will hold his attention more because he has faith in them MORE then others,
Well if there is one thing I have learned on this forum...the only one who does know is yoop.
You are the only one who constantly knows the receiver is in the wrong no matter what the All 22 or images, or other sources say.
It's the foundation of every one of your arguments.
Sorry. I accidentally used the wrong word. Not receiver. 3 stooges
we don't know who is the #1 read till the ball is snapped, and when the receiver is not at the pitch point, I feel confident that where the ball ended up wasn't the QB's fault, and when a QB throws a sideline pass and the receiver is 5 yrds from the side lines I figure the receiver screwed up, when 2 receivers run into a two stack zone, right away the first thought that pops into my head it was the QB's fault, sarcasm alert
We don't ever know who the #1 read is on any play, as we don't know what the play is. The QB who just called the play absolutely knows who the first read is. If he is open, you throw him the ball. If he isn't, then you progress to the 2nd read, 3rd, etc.
At this point, I think you are making two completely different arguments that seem like that are conflicting each other.
Well if there is one thing I have learned on this forum...the only one who does know is yoop.
You are the only one who constantly knows the receiver is in the wrong no matter what the All 22 or images, or other sources say.
It's the foundation of every one of your arguments.
Sorry. I accidentally used the wrong word. Not receiver. 3 stooges
we don't know who is the #1 read till the ball is snapped, and when the receiver is not at the pitch point, I feel confident that where the ball ended up wasn't the QB's fault, and when a QB throws a sideline pass and the receiver is 5 yrds from the side lines I figure the receiver screwed up, when 2 receivers run into a two stack zone, right away the first thought that pops into my head it was the QB's fault, sarcasm alert
We don't ever know who the #1 read is on any play, as we don't know what the play is. The QB who just called the play absolutely knows who the first read is. If he is open, you throw him the ball. If he isn't, then you progress to the 2nd read, 3rd, etc.
At this point, I think you are making two completely different arguments that seem like that are conflicting each other.
at this point I think your just twisting what I said, and repeating the 1, 2 3 mantra I said a post or two back,, I said once the ball is snapped we do at least have a idea, this back and forth of nit picking what I said is ending this conversation, I'am not confused about any of this, as you seem to be.
I guess it depends who has been pushing for Aaron the most, Hackett, Saleh, Douglas or Johnson.
But if it was anyone other than Johnson and he had to convinced...
Douglas is 20-46 an Saleh is 11-23. If they fail on getting Aaron and have another losing season, they are going to be fired, like no questions asked.
And if it was Johnson pushing most for it, then you basically got a free pass just getting it done and won't be 2nd guessed giving up the picks, internally.
As Packers, like I said, I'd probably come back to the table late next week and put forward a good faith, somewhat compromised offer, but otherwise, just sit and wait for NY to wisen up.
(Donald Driver, Greg Jennings and Jordy Nelson) plus Jermichael Finley and James Jones, they won the Super Bowl.
Finley was on IR that year. Nelson emerged as one of the top wideouts in the league the the year after the SuperBowl. He and Jones decent players in 2010, but not stars, and both of them struggled with drops early in their careers (including 2010, and even had a few in the Bowl game).
Jennings was, at the time, the only true star player at WR. Driver was established but well past his prime by that point.
Jennings and Nelson combined for 3 TD's
Nelson was 9 catches 140 yrds
Jennings 4 " 64
Jones " 50
Nelson was a star in 2010 SB
Jordy made the cover of Sports Illustrated in 2010 playoffs, as Antonio Freeman did in 1996 playoffs and Max McGee did in 1966 Super Bowl. These were the best of times IMHO. It wasn't just the SI cover WRs....it was the other receivers that contributed significantly to their team's successes as well. These were: Boyd Dowler, Carroll Dale, Andre Rison, Keith Jackson, James Jones, Donald Driver, Greg Jennings. Now we're starting over with Christian Watson and Romeo Doubs. More to come ....
