Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 11 Jul 2021 10:22
Respect is something that can and should be reciprocated.
go pak go wrote: ↑10 Jul 2021 21:07Ultimately, I think there are three main parties to blame.
1. Packers have had instances where they did not live up their end. Particularly decisions from 2013 - 2015....TT made some really poor decisions.
2. Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers were not good leaders when it mattered most. Honestly, MLF wasn't either. When the game was on the line, he was a poor leader and didn't feed AJ the ball. He took the scared way out and trusted #12 when he should have trusted #28. MM made critical errors. I would actually even elevate that to the Packers leaders in general (I'm looking at you Davante, Jones and Z). Our highest paid players always play smaller when we need them to play bigger (outside of Jaire and Clark)
3. Luck. The Packers have about as bad of luck as I can remember any team over a 20 year span.
go pak go wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 09:37
But I am gathering your overall theme has transformed now to the Packers having inferior coaching the last ten years.
Which I can support. I used to be a pretty fervent MM supporter and defender. But he really sucked in January from January 2012 - January 2016. Shoot. Even January 2008 vs the Giants. We just made poor decisions.
I feel MLF unfortunately has been under the same trap so far.
now I think we are on the same page, little early to blame MLF of the same fails as McCarthy in big games, he was severly handicapped with Jones and Bak injured, sure we can blame him for not running more, but the Bucs scoring 14 points to finish the first and start the second half will get a Coach to over thinking himself, and worrying about playing catch up ball, losing Jones short ball ability really hurt, no real slot receiver, and no time for Rodgers to throw, I brought up Adams before, his stats are a tail of the tape 11 receptions for a measly 65 yrds, the only receiver to do well was MVS, what 4 catches for a buck something 2 TD's ( I think), yes Matt should have stuck to the run more, but as you said our best players didn't play up to ability, still end the end it seemed like Matt didn't do his best work either.go pak go wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 09:37I quit reading after this because I realized you didn't read my post.
But I am gathering your overall theme has transformed now to the Packers having inferior coaching the last ten years.
Which I can support. I used to be a pretty fervent MM supporter and defender. But he really sucked in January from January 2012 - January 2016. Shoot. Even January 2008 vs the Giants. We just made poor decsisions.
I feel MLF unfortunately has been under the same trap so far.
Yes, agreed. But I also think that Jones and Dillon will be more effective if opposing teams have the legend of Aaron Rodgers to contend with rather than the allure of messing with an inexperienced first-time starter.
We said the same thing about McCarthy after 2014. I mean at that point, we knew we lost out on about 3 shots (2011, 2013 and 2014). But there were plenty of "excuses"Yoop wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 10:34now I think we are on the same page, little early to blame MLF of the same fails as McCarthy in big games, he was severly handicapped with Jones and Bak injured, sure we can blame him for not running more, but the Bucs scoring 14 points to finish the first and start the second half will get a Coach to over thinking himself, and worrying about playing catch up ball, losing Jones short ball ability really hurt, no real slot receiver, and no time for Rodgers to throw, I brought up Adams before, his stats are a tail of the tape 11 receptions for a measly 65 yrds, the only receiver to do well was MVS, what 4 catches for a buck something 2 TD's ( I think), yes Matt should have stuck to the run more, but as you said our best players didn't play up to ability, still end the end it seemed like Matt didn't do his best work either.go pak go wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 09:37I quit reading after this because I realized you didn't read my post.
But I am gathering your overall theme has transformed now to the Packers having inferior coaching the last ten years.
Which I can support. I used to be a pretty fervent MM supporter and defender. But he really sucked in January from January 2012 - January 2016. Shoot. Even January 2008 vs the Giants. We just made poor decsisions.
I feel MLF unfortunately has been under the same trap so far.
My question is: where did this criteria come from? You're literally just listing the things you don't like about the Packers and listing them as things championship teams have.Drj820 wrote: ↑10 Jul 2021 14:49That said, How many of those championship level rosters actually had the things that most championship teams have?
That would be an elite qb (check, theyve had that), a reliable run game when it’s necessary, special teams that NEVER hurt the team...only help, and a what...top ten-ish defense (generally top 5)?
what???? when we are talking about any certain subjects comments are bound to run over into others to formulate opinions, the reason I called you a 3rd street lawyer ( which was never meant to really insult you) is that you bring those comments back up with other subjects.go pak go wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 10:22Respect is something that can and should be reciprocated.
I don't think you should be expect me to read your long and tangent ridden posts when you don't read my posts. Because if you did, you would see that I agree with a lot of your positions. Honestly we aren't that far off from each other.
go pak go wrote: ↑10 Jul 2021 21:07Ultimately, I think there are three main parties to blame.
1. Packers have had instances where they did not live up their end. Particularly decisions from 2013 - 2015....TT made some really poor decisions.
2. Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers were not good leaders when it mattered most. Honestly, MLF wasn't either. When the game was on the line, he was a poor leader and didn't feed AJ the ball. He took the scared way out and trusted #12 when he should have trusted #28. MM made critical errors. I would actually even elevate that to the Packers leaders in general (I'm looking at you Davante, Jones and Z). Our highest paid players always play smaller when we need them to play bigger (outside of Jaire and Clark)
3. Luck. The Packers have about as bad of luck as I can remember any team over a 20 year span.go pak go wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 09:37
But I am gathering your overall theme has transformed now to the Packers having inferior coaching the last ten years.
Which I can support. I used to be a pretty fervent MM supporter and defender. But he really sucked in January from January 2012 - January 2016. Shoot. Even January 2008 vs the Giants. We just made poor decisions.
I feel MLF unfortunately has been under the same trap so far.
Our primary difference is you're an incredibly emotional dude and tremendous homer. Which means you will defend everyone and everything when it suits you and pull no daggers back to defend your position or chosen party of the day...even if it means if you attack somethin else you love in its place.
I mean one day you attack our talentless stooges WRs when it suits why Rodgers sucks or the next day you will defend our amazing and fast WRs when you feel someone is bashing WRs who play for the team you love. You do the same for coaches such as MM, MLF, Capers, TT, Gute. You also use really strong language like "carry the team on back, laughing stock, three stooges, etc." The language you use most definitely puts you in the group that the supporting cast, coaching staff and front office are a bunch of talentless idiots since 2010.
The only thing you will never deter from though, based on my observation of your posts for forever, is you will talk about the "idea" of saying Rodgers isn't perfect. But will never actually pin him on part of the blame.
So we basically get, "how do you expect the coaches to coach well when there is no talent" to "how do you expect the talent to come out when the coaches can't coach"...etc.
We blame Rodgers when he is to blame. And we blame other players when they are to blame. It's called objectivity.Yoop wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 11:00the reason I defend Rodgers is that you and others tend to over blame him for the team playing poorly, just as you tended to do with the 2011 loss or any other loss for that matter, when most of those losses can be blamed on others and poor coaching decisions, I said he was not perfect and also even the very best players make mistakes, as I said the teams that make the fewest mistakes usually win, and our QB tends to make very few.
Rodgers makes far less mistakes in these PO losses then anyone else, thats why I defend him, and what you think is a errant throw could be the fault of the receiver, as to missing open receivers, he can't see 60 yrds wide, he can't see everyone with a split second prior to the pass rush arriving.YoHoChecko wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 11:13We blame Rodgers when he is to blame. And we blame other players when they are to blame. It's called objectivity.
I mean, that's the thing, though. We totally agree on almost all of this.Yoop wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 11:35I complained about the drafting of MVS< Brown and the other because Rodgers needed receiver talent not a bunch of groomers, just as a slot receiver would have helped us last year, seriously Yoho I can't for the life of me figure out why you or GPG can't see my point of view (maybe you do) if we are always building for tomorrow then it tends to leave us short handed of ready to play talent, D&D is great to a limit, but Rodgers needed more then the 3 stooges in 018
I defend Rodgers because it's probable he will be the best QB the Packers have had in my lifetime, and we should have never let the receiver group decline, 6 years of not drafting a receiver higher then round 4 is a travesty that should not have happened.
sure I too expect Rodgers back this year, agree, this is the best place for him to get a ring.
the trials and tribulations of a relationship it's all good GPG. I try to not converse with people I don't respect or like, sorry for ever giving you the impression I lack either for you I read everything you post.go pak go wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 10:22Respect is something that can and should be reciprocated.
I don't think you should be expect me to read your long and tangent ridden posts when you don't read my posts. Because if you did, you would see that I agree with a lot of your positions. Honestly we aren't that far off from each other.
Yeah, boredom and brevity do not coexist well in my brain.lupedafiasco wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 12:51tl;dr.
There was one person to blame for this years championship loss and that was Kevin King. No way around that.
Hahaha. We have a complicated relationship yoop.Yoop wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 13:00the trials and tribulations of a relationship it's all good GPG. I try to not converse with people I don't respect or like, sorry for ever giving you the impression I lack either for you I read everything you post.go pak go wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 10:22Respect is something that can and should be reciprocated.
I don't think you should be expect me to read your long and tangent ridden posts when you don't read my posts. Because if you did, you would see that I agree with a lot of your positions. Honestly we aren't that far off from each other.
so much in your last post here that is worthy of response as usual, I'll have to come back to it when I have a bit more time, I'am painting the spare bedroom today, have a ton of company coming in 2 weeks.YoHoChecko wrote: ↑11 Jul 2021 12:02I also believe that Rodgers' play in that period became listless and undisciplined and less effective for reasons BEYOND those external factors, and that a true leader and competitor would not have let his frustration with the coaching staff wreck his play on the field.
I don’t think you can say they had the better RBs. Theirs played better in that game but they weren’t better. Jones &%$@ all over both Jones and Fournette in terms of talent. I think had Bak been in their the lines would have been a push. It’s unfortunate because with Wagner and Turner we can’t help Turner every play and they both got embarrassed. Rodgers was just under siege the entire game.bud fox wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021 01:01Yoho please ... Rodgers has the two highest rated seasons of all time. He has won the Superbowl, super bowl MVP and regular season MVP.
He does not have a single full season under a rating of 92.7. 9/14 full seasons he is over 100 rating.
In NFC championship Brady had better wrs, RB, line and defence. Brady still played worse than Rodgers.
Support the best player on your team and the best player in the league instead of being a brand shill.
Talking about NFC game specifically - do you agree for that game? I don't know how anyone could see it differently for the THAT gamelupedafiasco wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021 03:26I don’t think you can say they had the better RBs. Theirs played better in that game but they weren’t better. Jones &%$@ all over both Jones and Fournette in terms of talent. I think had Bak been in their the lines would have been a push. It’s unfortunate because with Wagner and Turner we can’t help Turner every play and they both got embarrassed. Rodgers was just under siege the entire game.bud fox wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021 01:01Yoho please ... Rodgers has the two highest rated seasons of all time. He has won the Superbowl, super bowl MVP and regular season MVP.
He does not have a single full season under a rating of 92.7. 9/14 full seasons he is over 100 rating.
In NFC championship Brady had better wrs, RB, line and defence. Brady still played worse than Rodgers.
Support the best player on your team and the best player in the league instead of being a brand shill.
I mean the thing about our offense is if you can get pressure and just double Davante you beat it. The 49ers did it the year before, the Buccs did it last year. That’s the formula. Just not a lot of teams have the front 4 to do it.
I mean you can’t go by that logic. The Packers had the better RBs. Jones didn’t play well in that game sure but I’m not going to go and trade him for Fournette because Fournette had one better game than Jones in a head to head. There’s their opposition to take into consideration as well. Jones was running into probably the best DT duo and LB duo in the NFL. Fournette and Ronald Jones were running into Clark and a bunch of bums. I guess Kirksey played well. The rest of those guy in the front 7 are trash at stopping the run. We knew this going in. So no &%$@ they outperformed our backs.bud fox wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021 06:01Talking about NFC game specifically - do you agree for that game? I don't know how anyone could see it differently for the THAT gamelupedafiasco wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021 03:26I don’t think you can say they had the better RBs. Theirs played better in that game but they weren’t better. Jones &%$@ all over both Jones and Fournette in terms of talent. I think had Bak been in their the lines would have been a push. It’s unfortunate because with Wagner and Turner we can’t help Turner every play and they both got embarrassed. Rodgers was just under siege the entire game.bud fox wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021 01:01Yoho please ... Rodgers has the two highest rated seasons of all time. He has won the Superbowl, super bowl MVP and regular season MVP.
He does not have a single full season under a rating of 92.7. 9/14 full seasons he is over 100 rating.
In NFC championship Brady had better wrs, RB, line and defence. Brady still played worse than Rodgers.
Support the best player on your team and the best player in the league instead of being a brand shill.
I mean the thing about our offense is if you can get pressure and just double Davante you beat it. The 49ers did it the year before, the Buccs did it last year. That’s the formula. Just not a lot of teams have the front 4 to do it.
The problem was we didn’t help one of the struggling OTs and leave the other alone, we hardly helped either of them. I remember play after playing wondering why Marcedes was going out for a pass instead of staying in and pass blocking. We went full insanity mode and did the same exact thing drive after drive from late 3rd quarter on, just hoping it would work better the next time. There was plenty to do to help slow the pass rush, we declined all options. Those options included bring in more pass blockers on the line (Brady’s Patriot teams were notorious for having like 7 guys blocking on the line), having a pass catching TE chip a DE before he goes out for a pass, throw very short passes (hard to do when jones is out of game and we didn’t have a real slot guy), or just do what was working...run the ball.lupedafiasco wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021 07:02I mean you can’t go by that logic. The Packers had the better RBs. Jones didn’t play well in that game sure but I’m not going to go and trade him for Fournette because Fournette had one better game than Jones in a head to head. There’s their opposition to take into consideration as well. Jones was running into probably the best DT duo and LB duo in the NFL. Fournette and Ronald Jones were running into Clark and a bunch of bums. I guess Kirksey played well. The rest of those guy in the front 7 are trash at stopping the run. We knew this going in. So no &%$@ they outperformed our backs.bud fox wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021 06:01Talking about NFC game specifically - do you agree for that game? I don't know how anyone could see it differently for the THAT gamelupedafiasco wrote: ↑12 Jul 2021 03:26
I don’t think you can say they had the better RBs. Theirs played better in that game but they weren’t better. Jones &%$@ all over both Jones and Fournette in terms of talent. I think had Bak been in their the lines would have been a push. It’s unfortunate because with Wagner and Turner we can’t help Turner every play and they both got embarrassed. Rodgers was just under siege the entire game.
I mean the thing about our offense is if you can get pressure and just double Davante you beat it. The 49ers did it the year before, the Buccs did it last year. That’s the formula. Just not a lot of teams have the front 4 to do it.