Cheese Curds - News Around The League 2023

[Labrev]

I can’t even imagine the posts we’d see from @lupedafiasco if this were a Saints forum…

For those who feel like GMs should just ignore the cap and spend freely in FA, New Orleans is a team that follows that model, and we see the result: NFL Purgatory. They never field an awful team, but they have not fielded a good one in years.

[Yoop]

I can’t even imagine the posts we’d see from @lupedafiasco if this were a Saints forum…

For those who feel like GMs should just ignore the cap and spend freely in FA, New Orleans is a team that follows that model, and we see the result: NFL Purgatory. They never field an awful team, but they have not fielded a good one in years.

It's what GM's do when they have a great QB in declining years and a team built to compete, they keep as much of that group together hoping for lady luck, the same as we did, the same as the Rams did, same as Philly, or Pitts. a GM would be a fool not to, because that is what fans expect them to do.

[Pckfn23]

Think I’ve seen like 242 a lot for expectations.

The Packers can use this to extend Love.

Simply means Love's price tag will go up.

Personally I don't think it has much to do with Love's contract. In an indirect way, it might, but his contract will reflect his value compared to other QBs around the league. Now those QBs could get larger contracts because of the greater cap rise, but I don't see Love getting tip top QB money just yet.

[Labrev]

I can’t even imagine the posts we’d see from @lupedafiasco if this were a Saints forum…

For those who feel like GMs should just ignore the cap and spend freely in FA, New Orleans is a team that follows that model, and we see the result: NFL Purgatory. They never field an awful team, but they have not fielded a good one in years.

It's what GM's do when they have a great QB in declining years and a team built to compete, they keep as much of that group together hoping for lady luck, the same as we did, the same as the Rams did, same as Philly, or Pitts. a GM would be a fool not to, because that is what fans expect them to do.

They have still been doing this after Brees left.

[Pckfn23]

I can’t even imagine the posts we’d see from @lupedafiasco if this were a Saints forum…

For those who feel like GMs should just ignore the cap and spend freely in FA, New Orleans is a team that follows that model, and we see the result: NFL Purgatory. They never field an awful team, but they have not fielded a good one in years.

It's what GM's do when they have a great QB in declining years and a team built to compete, they keep as much of that group together hoping for lady luck, the same as we did, the same as the Rams did, same as Philly, or Pitts. a GM would be a fool not to, because that is what fans expect them to do.

Drew Brees has not been a Saint since the 2020 season. That explanation doesn't explain what the Saints are doing.

[Yoop]

For those who feel like GMs should just ignore the cap and spend freely in FA, New Orleans is a team that follows that model, and we see the result: NFL Purgatory. They never field an awful team, but they have not fielded a good one in years.

It's what GM's do when they have a great QB in declining years and a team built to compete, they keep as much of that group together hoping for lady luck, the same as we did, the same as the Rams did, same as Philly, or Pitts. a GM would be a fool not to, because that is what fans expect them to do.

Drew Brees has not been a Saint since the 2020 season. That explanation doesn't explain what the Saints are doing.

minus the QB and it's the same thing, they hoped Winston or some other QB could support the rest of the talent, they made several bad decisions, got a little to deep, but dozens of other teams are above the cap, plus there is a big jump in the cap this season, they may decide it's time to rebuild and cut a bunch of it this season.
I find it funny for any Packer fan to shade the Saints when we did basically the same thing, just as a bunch of other teams also did.

[Pckfn23]

It's what GM's do when they have a great QB in declining years and a team built to compete, they keep as much of that group together hoping for lady luck, the same as we did, the same as the Rams did, same as Philly, or Pitts. a GM would be a fool not to, because that is what fans expect them to do.

Drew Brees has not been a Saint since the 2020 season. That explanation doesn't explain what the Saints are doing.

minus the QB and it's the same thing, they hoped Winston or some other QB could support the rest of the talent, they made several bad decisions, got a little to deep, but dozens of other teams are above the cap, plus there is a big jump in the cap this season, they may decide it's time to rebuild and cut a bunch of it this season.
I find it funny for any Packer fan to shade the Saints when we did basically the same thing, just as a bunch of other teams also did.

The entire explanation revolved around the great QB. Taking that away makes it nonsensical.

What the Saints are doing is not the "same thing" as the Packers and a bunch of other teams. It is taking the back loading and void year philosophy to a whole new level. Comparing the Packers who are less than $500k above the cap to the Saints who are $81M above the cap lacks perspective and any sort of nuance.

[Madcity_matt]

It's what GM's do when they have a great QB in declining years and a team built to compete, they keep as much of that group together hoping for lady luck, the same as we did, the same as the Rams did, same as Philly, or Pitts. a GM would be a fool not to, because that is what fans expect them to do.

Drew Brees has not been a Saint since the 2020 season. That explanation doesn't explain what the Saints are doing.

minus the QB and it's the same thing, they hoped Winston or some other QB could support the rest of the talent, they made several bad decisions, got a little to deep, but dozens of other teams are above the cap, plus there is a big jump in the cap this season, they may decide it's time to rebuild and cut a bunch of it this season.
I find it funny for any Packer fan to shade the Saints when we did basically the same thing, just as a bunch of other teams also did.

Apples and orangutangs. Green Bay did it to extend the window with a HOF QB still holding onto his prime. The Saints, as mentioned did it for Brees...but then kept doing it repeatedly after he left. They will be in cap hell forever until they bite the bullet. Green Bay bit the bullet last year and already has a cap that is coming clean. Green Bay had a plan. Either the Saints don't, or if this is their plan... :shrug:

[lupedafiasco]

Drew Brees has not been a Saint since the 2020 season. That explanation doesn't explain what the Saints are doing.

minus the QB and it's the same thing, they hoped Winston or some other QB could support the rest of the talent, they made several bad decisions, got a little to deep, but dozens of other teams are above the cap, plus there is a big jump in the cap this season, they may decide it's time to rebuild and cut a bunch of it this season.
I find it funny for any Packer fan to shade the Saints when we did basically the same thing, just as a bunch of other teams also did.

Apples and orangutangs. Green Bay did it to extend the window with a HOF QB still holding onto his prime. The Saints, as mentioned did it for Brees...but then kept doing it repeatedly after he left. They will be in cap hell forever until they bite the bullet. Green Bay bit the bullet last year and already has a cap that is coming clean. Green Bay had a plan. Either the Saints don't, or if this is their plan... :shrug:

We still have a cap issue. Theres still a lot of void years and money pushed out we are going to eat this year. Not to mention Baks dead cap incoming and maybe Campbell.

I would argue we didnt have a plan. We drafted Love... then we paid Rodgers... then we traded Rodgers. A lot of waffling back and forth on our part that cost us $60M last season against the cap.

[Pckfn23]

Void years are the new normal. Back loaded contracts have been normal for decades. Bakhtiari's situation is supremely unfortunate, but not a product of poor management.

The Rodgers situation after drafting Love was not good. It was appeasing a star player who's ego was hurt by the drafting of Love. Extending him was not good business even though necessary.

[Yoop]

Drew Brees has not been a Saint since the 2020 season. That explanation doesn't explain what the Saints are doing.

minus the QB and it's the same thing, they hoped Winston or some other QB could support the rest of the talent, they made several bad decisions, got a little to deep, but dozens of other teams are above the cap, plus there is a big jump in the cap this season, they may decide it's time to rebuild and cut a bunch of it this season.
I find it funny for any Packer fan to shade the Saints when we did basically the same thing, just as a bunch of other teams also did.

Apples and orangutangs. Green Bay did it to extend the window with a HOF QB still holding onto his prime. The Saints, as mentioned did it for Brees...but then kept doing it repeatedly after he left. They will be in cap hell forever until they bite the bullet. Green Bay bit the bullet last year and already has a cap that is coming clean. Green Bay had a plan. Either the Saints don't, or if this is their plan... :shrug:

Obviously Loomis felt he had a good enough roster to carry a less then HOF bound QB, the NIners just did that with Purdy.

we did it with Rodgers with less then a SB caliber roster, has NO went to far over the cap, sure, but the goal is first of all to remain competitive, then hope for even more success.
I find it funny that Packer fans disparage the Saints after we did basically the same thing.

[Pckfn23]

I find it funny that Packer fans disparage the Saints after we did basically the same thing.

No... We didn't. We did what you first explained and are now trying to move away from because that is not what the Saints are doing.

[Yoop]

I find it funny that Packer fans disparage the Saints after we did basically the same thing.

No... We didn't. We did what you first explained and are now trying to move away from because that is not what the Saints are doing.

your trying to make this about not having Brees, and that means you think Loomis is a fool, or Brian for doing what we did, again having a great QB makes it easier to do, but teams with less then HOF bound QB's also win it all in this league, there is no major difference.

[Drj820]

Saints have obviously cared way less about dead cap for a lot longer than the Packers. Outside of outlier years where you trade the franchise QB, the packers havent played anymore cap games than most teams.

Saints have obviously played more than most. Probably because they play in such a weak division that they think they can continue to make the playoffs if they continue to kick can down the road. They have wanted to delay "falling on the sword" as long as possible.

Cant blame em necessarily, but the plan obviously hasnt translated into the type of playoff run they were probably hoping for.

[Pckfn23]

I find it funny that Packer fans disparage the Saints after we did basically the same thing.

No... We didn't. We did what you first explained and are now trying to move away from because that is not what the Saints are doing.

your trying to make this about not having Brees, and that means you think Loomis is a fool, or Brian for doing what we did, again having a great QB makes it easier to do, but teams with less then HOF bound QB's also win it all in this league, there is no major difference.

Talk about a hard pivot. This was your own explanation of why the Saints are in the cap predicament they are:

It's what GM's do when they have a great QB in declining years and a team built to compete

This is NOT the Saints' situation. This was the Packers situation. What you originally said was wrong in explaining how the Saints got to their predicament.

Your latest comment is now completely irrelevant to the original conversation. It has nothing to do with liking or agreeing with Loomis or Gute. You are simply misrepresenting the entire situation with the Saints and then bashing others for not agreeing with your incorrect assessment of the situation. The Saints and Packers cap situations and the reasoning behind them are different going into 2024.

[Labrev]

we did basically the same thing.

Not according to you. You have for years now ranted against our FO for playing inexperienced young guys at various positions and that we should have brought in upgrades no matter what the price (you pride yourself on not putting a price on "winning").

If we wanted to know what that looks like in the real world, as opposed to the abstract world where every theory works perfectly, we can look at the Saints: nobody puts "a price on winning" less than they do, but they are not winning much.

[Labrev]

I don't really feel a need to "disparage" the Saints. I simply am the kind of person who wants to test things out and see the results.

If the results are good, then I can get on board with the idea. If not, I am not interested.

Every idea sounds great until you test it.

There are those who think the cap is totally meaningless and should not deter a team from adding guys at all. Hey, it's cool if you think that. I just want to see what results it produces when tested. The Saints are instructive because they are the only team that does that. The results do not inspire confidence, though.

[lupedafiasco]

Every Saints fan I know off the top of my head bitches nonstop about how their org has been run since that iconic draft in 2017.

[Yoop]

fools rush in

what is the job of the GM, obviously to build a competitive team, what does having a competitive team do? it fills the seats, so what actually is the job of a GM? obviously it amounts to the later.

with Rodgers kicking dead cap seemed more warranted, but it can be the same with NO, we are using the QB position or lack of with NO to say what they have done is wrong and it was OK with us doing it

Loomis is just trying to win enough to fill the seats while he finds a new QB, makes sense to me.

[Pckfn23]

Loomis is just trying to win enough to fill the seats while he finds a new QB, makes sense to me.

The hardest pivot you have made yet, and that is saying something! I thought he was doing it to extend a great QBs window???