Packers Huddle

Rodgers still has enough talent to win

Jones and Dillon obviously do to

we need to get this OL right

and we need another receiver

the defense needs to stop the run and play m ore physical, hope Gary gets healthy and Campbell just has a bruised knee and is back next week or two.

there are still 9 games left to the season, no time to talk of a rebuild, we have Rodgers for another season unless we want to live with huge dead cap money, that aint going to happen.

I think the blown drafts he was referring to was 2018 and 2020.

paco wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 09:33

I think decisions would have been very different if Rodgers wouldn't have been back in the picture. I think they both deserve the chance to put together a team without that piece affecting things.

but he is in the picture, and probably will be for another year,

the time to get rid of Rodgers was after the 2018 season but Murphy gave him a contract that made that very hard to do, then extended it again which makes it impossible now, Rodgers is hear till he retires probably next year.

so we need to live with that and improve the team we have now, all this talk of rebuilding with a buffer year is dependent on the ability of Love to take over or spending mucho for someone who is, so basically we have to eat Rodgers dead cap, an spend a bunch more for another QB, cause I didn't see enough progress from LOve to think he's ready.

Rodgers being here imo had nothing to do with who Guty drafted, it was a good draft, we have some good prospects, he simply needed to do more to replace Adams, huge fail there.

Labrev wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 09:59

I think the blown drafts he was referring to was 2018 and 2020.

2015 was a blown draft. 2018 wasn't good, but getting Alexander makes it below average. 2020 is far from a blown draft. Dillon and Runyan themselves take it to average draft category.

Labrev wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 09:59

I think the blown drafts he was referring to was 2018 and 2020.

Huh. I would've thought he was referring to every draft led by the inept Gutekunst.

As [mention]Pckfn23[/mention] noted, there are several metrics that place Gute's drafting grade within the end tier of the "elite" GMs lupe himself provided. I started a more thorough player/roster breakdown of those GM's drafted players still in the league, players still on their respective teams, All-Pro/Pro-Bowl selections, etc. and Gute was right there with a few of those guys despite consistently drafting near the end of the rounds. I was going to compile some data but then remembered who I was conversing with and realized it would all just be a waste of time. Gute will always be a bum because...well, meh receivers.

Just because the players or positions lupe preferred didn't get selected doesn't make for a "bust" draft. It makes for a bitter, disgruntled fan who can't see past the team mistakenly thinking their once elite but now declining QB could perform at/near that level just one more year with young but developing talent.

Yoop wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 10:11

paco wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 09:33

I think decisions would have been very different if Rodgers wouldn't have been back in the picture. I think they both deserve the chance to put together a team without that piece affecting things.

but he is in the picture, and probably will be for another year,

the time to get rid of Rodgers was after the 2018 season but Murphy gave him a contract that made that very hard to do, then extended it again which makes it impossible now, Rodgers is hear till he retires probably next year.

so we need to live with that and improve the team we have now, all this talk of rebuilding with a buffer year is dependent on the ability of Love to take over or spending mucho for someone who is, so basically we have to eat Rodgers dead cap, an spend a bunch more for another QB, cause I didn't see enough progress from LOve to think he's ready.

Rodgers being here imo had nothing to do with who Guty drafted, it was a good draft, we have some good prospects, he simply needed to do more to replace Adams, huge fail there.

Rodgers is here and we'll deal with it as long as he is. My only points is I would like Gutey and MLF to have a shot at building a team without him. That's all. I do think Rodgers being there affected the drafts, some. Gutey made a choice and said the defense and run games will be good enough along with a back to back MVP. They haven't been. If Love was QB or someone else, you don't think that would have altered his thinking?

Labrev wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 09:28

Apart from WR, the roster talent is pretty good across the board. Gute has been good overall.

MLF is the one I am less sure about. This team is not playing like the sum of its parts.

Agreed. I am fine with the roster talent. But I am annoyed by the lack of production from the talent. The largest thing I notice is the lack of intensity. We just seem to never be able to knock off the "soft" feel from GB.

Every year we can't tackle. Every year we don't run enough. And the offensive line production is waaaaaay off kilter from the sum of its parts.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 10:12

Labrev wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 09:59

I think the blown drafts he was referring to was 2018 and 2020.

2015 was a blown draft. 2018 wasn't good, but getting Alexander makes it below average. 2020 is far from a blown draft. Dillon and Runyan themselves take it to average draft category.

Yeah 2018 was bad. Whatever, show me a good GM that hasn't had a bad draft. As for 2020, I think that one aged poorly, but not for reasons I would fault on Gute. To me, he was clearly grocery shopping for MLF in Day 2, who was in his second year, not him choosing the most talented guys straight-up. Remember how much MLF hyped up Deguara?

On that note, I think the offense that MLF envisioned running at the time is very different than the one he has ended up adopting after adapting it to Rodgers's preferences. MLF's pre-GB offenses didn't give many snaps to receivers other than WR1 and 2, those snaps went to RBs and TEs. It seems to me that that changed, entirely to accommodate Rodgers, who is used to having 3-4 WRs on the field and prefers throws to the outside rather than over the middle (and is allergic to checkdowns).

If MLF knew then what he knows now, I doubt we make those same picks.

Labrev wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 10:44

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 10:12

Labrev wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 09:59

I think the blown drafts he was referring to was 2018 and 2020.

2015 was a blown draft. 2018 wasn't good, but getting Alexander makes it below average. 2020 is far from a blown draft. Dillon and Runyan themselves take it to average draft category.

Yeah 2018 was bad. Whatever, show me a good GM that hasn't had a bad draft. As for 2020, I think that one aged poorly, but not for reasons I would fault on Gute. To me, he was clearly grocery shopping for MLF in Day 2, who was in his second year, not him choosing the most talented guys straight-up. Remember how much MLF hyped up Deguara?

On that note, I think the offense that MLF envisioned running at the time is very different than the one he has ended up adopting after adapting it to Rodgers's preferences. MLF's pre-GB offenses didn't give many snaps to receivers other than WR1 and 2, those snaps went to RBs and TEs. It seems to me that that changed, entirely to accommodate Rodgers, who is used to having 3-4 WRs on the field and prefers throws to the outside rather than over the middle (and is allergic to checkdowns).

If MLF knew then what he knows now, I doubt we make those same picks.

I tell you what. Josiah Deguara could be a very key cog in this offensive machine the rest of this year and in the future if they use him right.

That dude can BLOCK. Not only is he blocking well in the open field as an H-back, but holy sh*t did everyone notice how long he held the opposing DE (don't think it was Miller) as an in-line TE last night?

I am actually coming away from the loss to the Bills with a little more optimism than in the past few weeks.

The OLine was definitely good on the run game. That is improvement. For pass pro, they still have work to do. They were putting Tom in at LG and that’s new for him. But Bahk and Myers were solid. If Jenkins can get on the field and Bahk play more, I think they can still be good.

Once the OLine improves, Rodgers and the pass game will improve. (It’s actually remarkable that we stayed within 10 points of the Bills with almost no passing offense.) He showed more confidence in his protection last night. That’s a long time coming.

If Watson can get on the field and stay on, it looks like MLF is going to give him more plays than just jet sweeps. Doubs is coming off a game that can be a motivator for him and the scheme overall.

28 looked much better, more like what he did last year. And that’ll be great. 33 is showing team MVP form.

I actually think this offense is showing signs of life. And that’ll keep the defense OFF the field more. Maybe they even learn to make more stops if they don’t play as much. But I’m ready to fire the DC in a big way. Too much talent and too little production. Not enough cohesion.

I’m already calling for a win next week! A narrow one, sure. But still a win.

I actually think the Quay Walker pick similarly was "grocery shopping" for Joe Barry. LBers are a big part of the scheme that Barry brought over from LA. If this were still the Mike Pettine defense, we probably take EDGE George Karlaftis with one of those picks, Wyatt probably still gets chosen with one of them. The Packers of yesteryears certainly don't take Quay Walker at 22.

Point is, there's more that goes into draft picks than straight up talent-eval and GM judgment.

go pak go wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 10:51

Labrev wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 10:44

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 10:12

2015 was a blown draft. 2018 wasn't good, but getting Alexander makes it below average. 2020 is far from a blown draft. Dillon and Runyan themselves take it to average draft category.

Yeah 2018 was bad. Whatever, show me a good GM that hasn't had a bad draft. As for 2020, I think that one aged poorly, but not for reasons I would fault on Gute. To me, he was clearly grocery shopping for MLF in Day 2, who was in his second year, not him choosing the most talented guys straight-up. Remember how much MLF hyped up Deguara?

On that note, I think the offense that MLF envisioned running at the time is very different than the one he has ended up adopting after adapting it to Rodgers's preferences. MLF's pre-GB offenses didn't give many snaps to receivers other than WR1 and 2, those snaps went to RBs and TEs. It seems to me that that changed, entirely to accommodate Rodgers, who is used to having 3-4 WRs on the field and prefers throws to the outside rather than over the middle (and is allergic to checkdowns).

If MLF knew then what he knows now, I doubt we make those same picks.

I tell you what. Josiah Deguara could be a very key cog in this offensive machine the rest of this year and in the future if they use him right.

That dude can BLOCK. Not only is he blocking well in the open field as an H-back, but holy sh*t did everyone notice how long he held the opposing DE (don't think it was Miller) as an in-line TE last night?

At the half, Dungy highlighted a play where Deguara looked to be open deep downfield, Rodgers was even looking that way to throw, but the DT pushed Zach Tom into him for a sack before that could happen.

Deguara can play. It's kinda frustrating that while MLF and AR insist on involving our sub-par WRs in the offense heavily and asking them to do more than they are realistically capable of... all at the expense of capable players who could actually pick up the slack. Amari Rodgers should not be on the field over Deguara in any situation at all.

paco wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 10:33

Yoop wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 10:11

paco wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 09:33

I think decisions would have been very different if Rodgers wouldn't have been back in the picture. I think they both deserve the chance to put together a team without that piece affecting things.

but he is in the picture, and probably will be for another year,

the time to get rid of Rodgers was after the 2018 season but Murphy gave him a contract that made that very hard to do, then extended it again which makes it impossible now, Rodgers is hear till he retires probably next year.

so we need to live with that and improve the team we have now, all this talk of rebuilding with a buffer year is dependent on the ability of Love to take over or spending mucho for someone who is, so basically we have to eat Rodgers dead cap, an spend a bunch more for another QB, cause I didn't see enough progress from LOve to think he's ready.

Rodgers being here imo had nothing to do with who Guty drafted, it was a good draft, we have some good prospects, he simply needed to do more to replace Adams, huge fail there.

Rodgers is here and we'll deal with it as long as he is. My only points is I would like Gutey and MLF to have a shot at building a team without him. That's all. I do think Rodgers being there affected the drafts, some. Gutey made a choice and said the defense and run games will be good enough along with a back to back MVP. They haven't been. If Love was QB or someone else, you don't think that would have altered his thinking?

got your point now

thing is if we had traded Rodgers with the talent we had prior to the last draft, and the way the top group of receivers where off the board in the first 2/3rds of round one, I doubt our first 3 picks would be different, Campbell wont last forever ( might be done for the season now) so we needed to draft his replacement, same with DL, Wyatt may be struggling now, but thats common for rookie DT's, and no one was arguing when we picked Watson, and it's easy to see the explosion when he has the ball, just needs to get stronger and some experience.

we would have had to either live with Love or find a more experienced vet QB, and that can cost a lot depending, so what we would have gotten for Rodgers might have needed to be used some there, the rest on maybe a trade for a receiver or future drafts.

I'd still like to see Guty buy a WR today, get the best one and restructure his contract for next year.

APB wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 10:23

Labrev wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 09:59

I think the blown drafts he was referring to was 2018 and 2020.

Huh. I would've thought he was referring to every draft led by the inept Gutekunst.

As @Pckfn23 noted, there are several metrics that place Gute's drafting grade within the end tier of the "elite" GMs lupe himself provided. I started a more thorough player/roster breakdown of those GM's drafted players still in the league, players still on their respective teams, All-Pro/Pro-Bowl selections, etc. and Gute was right there with a few of those guys despite consistently drafting near the end of the rounds. I was going to compile some data but then remembered who I was conversing with and realized it would all just be a waste of time. Gute will always be a bum because...well, meh receivers.

Just because the players or positions lupe preferred didn't get selected doesn't make for a "bust" draft. It makes for a bitter, disgruntled fan who can't see past the team mistakenly thinking their once elite but now declining QB could perform at/near that level just one more year with young but developing talent.

Its not just drafting though. Those GMs I listed all make terrific trades to push the envelope while we sat on our hands. We are always behind the strategy to win a SB. Its an arms race come the trade deadline. You need to make moves to push your team just that much farther. We are just unwilling to do that.

paco wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 11:58

that ejection came after he was penalized for unsportsman like conduct a minute later from the booth above, it was another in a long list of bull &%$@ ticky tacky calls that go against the Packers all season, and also makes me think the league is helping vegas beat the spread

My dad recently also said he thinks the NFL is rigged. He said that the way Mahommes suddenly forgot how to throw in the AFCCG after lighting up the scoreboard against the Bills one week earlier, allowing Cincy to get the upset, he just couldn't buy it.

LA winning the championship definitely feels like an outcome they would have wanted, too. They definitely seem to want to make the Rams franchise really take off in LA knowing how lucrative of a market it can be in theory (in reality, the LA crowd isn't into football and if they are, they cheer for the 9ers).

I certainly can't dismiss the theory. It seems like every industry in the world is deeply corrupt.

Labrev wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 12:51

My dad recently also said he thinks the NFL is rigged. He said that the way Mahommes suddenly forgot how to throw in the AFCCG after lighting up the scoreboard against the Bills one week earlier, allowing Cincy to get the upset, he just couldn't buy it.

LA winning the championship definitely feels like an outcome they would have wanted, too. They definitely seem to want to make the Rams franchise really take off in LA knowing how lucrative of a market it can be in theory (in reality, the LA crowd isn't into football and if they are, they cheer for the 9ers).

I certainly can't dismiss the theory. It seems like every industry in the world is deeply corrupt.

Guessing ur dad's theory doesn't apply to mlb. Yankees Dodgers would seem to have been a more preferred matchup.

quay walker did nothing wrong

Yoop wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 12:10

paco wrote: ↑

31 Oct 2022 11:58

that ejection came after he was penalized for unsportsman like conduct a minute later from the booth above, it was another in a long list of bull &%$@ ticky tacky calls that go against the Packers all season, and also makes me think the league is helping vegas beat the spread

I didn't have an issue with the flag. You have to not do that no matter what. But an ejection? I've seen other crap like that not evoke an ejection.