Page 109 of 204
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 10:23
by Drj820
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:12
who can say exactly why Rodgers is upset, but the stats from last years playoff loss to the Bucs shows our receivers where less then stellar, why anyone would think a quality slot receiver wouldn't or couldn't have made a difference is being less then honest, these stats show that Adams needed more then his WR buddies where able to deliver, sure eliminating the drops could have delivered a victory to, same with increasing the run touches, but sticking to the point I'am 99% sure that Rodgers would have rather seen a WR drafted two years ago versus Jarren Love, so ya, I think the talent issue or lack of good be at least part of the reason Rodgers is upset.
Wide Receivers
Davante Adams 68, Allen Lazard 58, Marquez Valdes-Scantling 46, Equanimeous St. Brown 17
The Packers tried to get Davante Adams going, but could only find production from him on a few quick-breaking routes or on some smoke screens. He finished with nine catches for 67 yards and one score on 15 targets, with three of those incompletions coming on back-to-back-to-back plays with goal-to-go in the second quarter.
While Adams struggled with his efficiency, MVS was tremendous in the game. He got the Packers’ offense kick-started with a 50-yard touchdown on Green Bay’s second series, then caught three more passes for some big plays. All told, he finished the day with four grabs for 115 yards.
Lazard was a third-down machine again, catching three passes for 62 yards, two coming on big third down conversions including a 23-yard gain on 3rd-and-15 from the shadow of the Packers’ own end zone. However, he was the target on Rodgers’ interception; Sean Murphy-Bunting had a clear hold on Lazard’s shoulder pad throughout his route but was not flagged as he undercut the route and intercepted the pass with a little bit of time left in the first half. St. Brown caught his only target for ten yards, but dropped a two-point conversion in the second half that might have changed the scoring equation late in the game (though the ball was ever-so-slightly tipped by Ndamukong Suh at the line of scrimmage).
Tight Ends
Robert Tonyan 47, Marcedes Lewis 29, Dominique Dafney 17
The Packers got a typical game from Tonyan — four catches for 22 yards and a touchdown. Lewis pitched in with a few big plays, catching three passes for 28 yards.
MVS is the only one with over 67 yrds receiving, 67 yrds
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-t ... ng-absence
Packers have attempted to upgrade the WR position this offseason though...Funchess is back (whom i dont have high expectations for but will certainly be an upgrade over St Brown one would hope) and Amari Rodgers is gonna be a star (just watch
)
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 10:24
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 09:35
One perspective sees love as simply an insurance policy in case things go bad with Rodgers due to age or injury, one perspective intends on Love replacing Rodgers while Rodgers is still under contract. Both plans may never come to fruition due to Love sucking, Rodgers winning super bowls and multiple MVPs, but the draft pick had an intention...i do believe it was to replace Rodgers, and Rodgers knows this...not just to let them compete.
tend to agree, the Company line of "he is our QB for this season and beyond translates to imho he is our QB till Love gets some coaching up, which as Rodgers said would have been 2020 cept Covid monkey wrenched Loves progress and Rodgers had such a great season the FO would look like fools to try and trade him, I agree this is probably the main reason Rodgers has held out, and this will be his last season as a Packer.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 10:31
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:23
Packers have attempted to upgrade the WR position this offseason though...Funchess is back (whom i dont have high expectations for but will certainly be an upgrade over St Brown one would hope) and Amari Rodgers is gonna be a star (just watch )
yep, took 6 years to finally use higher then a 4th round pick on a WR, I think Amari will be our #2 receiver this season, Lafluers schemes revolve around play action, Mis direction and small ball, a receiver like Amari should become a star in it.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 10:39
by NCF
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:31
I think Amari will be our #2 receiver this season
I really, really don't. Not this soon. I think he will have a role, but not nearly this extensive.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 10:42
by Drj820
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:39
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:31
I think Amari will be our #2 receiver this season
I really, really don't. Not this soon. I think he will have a role, but not nearly this extensive.
I dont think it will matter if he is #2 or #3 or #4, I think he has the talent to see the field a lot this year and i think that will turn into production. WRs come into the league and make a splash early these days, I think there isnt enough talent ahead of him to keep him off the field.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 11:08
by Yoop
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:39
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:31
I think Amari will be our #2 receiver this season
I really, really don't. Not this soon. I think he will have a role, but not nearly this extensive.
why? McCarthy isn't here any longer, and he cared more about players not making mistakes then he did about scheming there success and every receiver he had was held back for those reasons, If Matt thinks Amari knows the plays he wont hold him back, if he was willing to use Ervin in game one last year he'll do the same with Rodgers.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 11:13
by go pak go
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 09:09
Drj820 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 08:32
Interesting situation if my prediction and others like andrew brandt and GPG are correct.
If Rodgers has a bad year, makes the decision to move on to Love easier, yet hurts his value.
If Rodgers has another great year, makes his value in a trade sky high, yet makes the Packers look like they are moving off an elite QB who is showing no signs of slowing down, and makes you wonder if its neccesary at all.
I think the decision has already been made, though. This might be part of Rodgers' beef, but maybe he really cannot do anything to force the Packers hand next year and is essentially our lame-duck QB. With our salary cap issues, I think getting Rodgers off the books next year is almost a necessity and begins a mini rebuild that will give us enough wiggle-room to re-set the core of our team which may or may not include big extensions for Adams, Jenkins, Gary, Savage, and most pressing, Jaire.
Yeah I really think this assumption is incorrect.
We know the Packers tried to re-work the deal of Rodgers to free up 21 cap space. A decision to do that likely meant the Packers TRIED to keep Rodgers longer than this year because of deferring cap further out. The consequence if we would have re-worked the deal is more dead cap space in 2023 BUT we would be able to legitimately keep Rodgers in 21 and 22.
The fact that Rodgers did not agree to a restructure and now is forcing expensing of bonus in 21 means that the Packers cap situation is worse in 21 (and ultimately 22 because you can roll cap) which now in turns makes the 22 cap situation dire and likely needs to move on from Rodgers.
A restructure would make Rodgers in GB longer possible. No restructure put a time clock on it. I very much don't buy that Rodgers "sniffed out" the Packers wanted to move on after this year. External evidence suggests the Packers wanted to do everything it could to keep Rodgers until at least after the 2022 season.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 11:25
by salmar80
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 11:08
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:39
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:31
I think Amari will be our #2 receiver this season
I really, really don't. Not this soon. I think he will have a role, but not nearly this extensive.
why? McCarthy isn't here any longer, and he cared more about players not making mistakes then he did about scheming there success and every receiver he had was held back for those reasons, If Matt thinks Amari knows the plays he wont hold him back, if he was willing to use Ervin in game one last year he'll do the same with Rodgers.
I'm sure LaFleur will utilize Amari.... IF he's ready. But I'd be cautious of the amount of expectations I'd place on 3rd round rookie, especially when he fits both theoretical need on the field AND your personal narrative. Of course I hope AmaRod lights the league on fire starting week 1 of his NFL career, but there's a biiig chance we may have to be more patient than we'd like to be.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 11:58
by NCF
go pak go wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 11:13
A restructure would make Rodgers in GB longer possible. No restructure put a time clock on it.
I mean, this is my assumption, so not sure you actually are disagreeing with me. I don't care what happened six months ago. The fact is we are now here in the present and everything else you said regarding his contract and the cap ramifications I fully agree with.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 11:59
by Yoop
go pak go wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 11:13
We know the Packers tried to re-work the deal of Rodgers to free up 21 cap space. A decision to do that likely meant the Packers TRIED to keep Rodgers longer than this year because of deferring cap further out. The consequence if we would have re-worked the deal is more dead cap space in 2023 BUT we would be able to legitimately keep Rodgers in 21 and 22.
how do we know this? never heard it from the FO or Rodgers, and why would Rodgers agree to something like this had it even been offered, it lessons his tradability the longer he stays here, just doesn't make sense to me.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 12:01
by NCF
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 11:08
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:39
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:31
I think Amari will be our #2 receiver this season
I really, really don't. Not this soon. I think he will have a role, but not nearly this extensive.
why? McCarthy isn't here any longer, and he cared more about players not making mistakes then he did about scheming there success and every receiver he had was held back for those reasons, If Matt thinks Amari knows the plays he wont hold him back, if he was willing to use Ervin in game one last year he'll do the same with Rodgers.
Look at Ervin's snap counts the past two years and add Tavon Austin in there, too, from last year. I know injuries played a big role, but it's not that many snaps. I fully agree with you that Amari will play that role immediately, but it's a small role. I don't think he is going to be stealing outside snaps from MVS, Lazard, or even Funchess. So I agree he will have a role and it likely will expand as the season goes on, but when you look at the snap counts and production next January, I fully expect Rodgers to be trailing the other guys. No knock on Rodgers whatsoever. It just takes some time to get these guys fully engrained.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 12:04
by NCF
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 11:59
how do we know this? never heard it from the FO or Rodgers, and why would Rodgers agree to something like this had it even been offered
I mean, this we have been over and over. We know this because every reputable media head reported it and Rodgers should have agreed to it because it would have given the Packers the ability to go after this better talent he supposedly knows we need. That is all things being equal. I suppose it's possible we could have done that with Rodgers and not pushed money out on Billy Turner, Preston Smith, Big Dog, etc., but I think if that had gotten done, we would have added more outside help. That is my opinion.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 12:05
by Drj820
go pak go wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 11:13
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 09:09
Drj820 wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 08:32
Interesting situation if my prediction and others like andrew brandt and GPG are correct.
If Rodgers has a bad year, makes the decision to move on to Love easier, yet hurts his value.
If Rodgers has another great year, makes his value in a trade sky high, yet makes the Packers look like they are moving off an elite QB who is showing no signs of slowing down, and makes you wonder if its neccesary at all.
I think the decision has already been made, though. This might be part of Rodgers' beef, but maybe he really cannot do anything to force the Packers hand next year and is essentially our lame-duck QB. With our salary cap issues, I think getting Rodgers off the books next year is almost a necessity and begins a mini rebuild that will give us enough wiggle-room to re-set the core of our team which may or may not include big extensions for Adams, Jenkins, Gary, Savage, and most pressing, Jaire.
Yeah I really think this assumption is incorrect.
We know the Packers tried to re-work the deal of Rodgers to free up 21 cap space. A decision to do that likely meant the Packers TRIED to keep Rodgers longer than this year because of deferring cap further out. The consequence if we would have re-worked the deal is more dead cap space in 2023 BUT we would be able to legitimately keep Rodgers in 21 and 22.
The fact that Rodgers did not agree to a restructure and now is forcing expensing of bonus in 21 means that the Packers cap situation is worse in 21 (and ultimately 22 because you can roll cap) which now in turns makes the 22 cap situation dire and likely needs to move on from Rodgers.
A restructure would make Rodgers in GB longer possible. No restructure put a time clock on it. I very much don't buy that Rodgers "sniffed out" the Packers wanted to move on after this year. External evidence suggests the Packers wanted to do everything it could to keep Rodgers until at least after the 2022 season.
That would just show that his 2020 MVP season moved the needle for the packers or backed up their plan for a year.
It does not have impact on what they were thinking at the 2020 draft when they may have gathered from the 2019 season that they could be successful without Rodgers.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 12:07
by Drj820
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 12:04
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 11:59
how do we know this? never heard it from the FO or Rodgers, and why would Rodgers agree to something like this had it even been offered
I mean, this we have been over and over. We know this because every reputable media head reported it and Rodgers should have agreed to it because it would have given the Packers the ability to go after this better talent he supposedly knows we need. That is all things being equal. I suppose it's possible we could have done that with Rodgers and not pushed money out on Billy Turner, Preston Smith, Big Dog, etc., but I think if that had gotten done, we would have added more outside help. That is my opinion.
I gathered from the reporting that the Packers were resistant to offering Rodgers an extension and then when they saw how chapped he was at them, they offered him one and Rodgers rejected it. We have no idea whether it was a good/meaningful offer or not. It could have been substantial, or it could have been a ploy to make a bad offer, leak that they made an offer, and score some points in the PR battle.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 12:08
by Yoop
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 12:01
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 11:08
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 10:39
I really, really don't. Not this soon. I think he will have a role, but not nearly this extensive.
why? McCarthy isn't here any longer, and he cared more about players not making mistakes then he did about scheming there success and every receiver he had was held back for those reasons, If Matt thinks Amari knows the plays he wont hold him back, if he was willing to use Ervin in game one last year he'll do the same with Rodgers.
Look at Ervin's snap counts the past two years and add Tavon Austin in there, too, from last year. I know injuries played a big role, but it's not that many snaps. I fully agree with you that Amari will play that role immediately, but it's a small role. I don't think he is going to be stealing outside snaps from MVS, Lazard, or even Funchess. So I agree he will have a role and it likely will expand as the season goes on, but when you look at the snap counts and production next January, I fully expect Rodgers to be trailing the other guys. No knock on Rodgers whatsoever. It just takes some time to get these guys fully engrained.
no it isn't, just go look up how many receivers had to be used in the slot because Ervin was injured, and Austin sucked, look at the production per touch Ervin produced, he averaged almost 8 yrds touch, and I doubt even Adams ( most reps in slot) is as good as Amari could be in that position, I figure he'll have about 70 catches for about 700 yrds, we'll see though.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 12:13
by Yoop
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 12:04
I mean, this we have been over and over. We know this because every reputable media head reported it
come on, the media doesn't know much more then we do, and surely doesn't know anything concerning any terms associated with a extension, and Rodgers wants 3 or 4 years with the same team, why would he go along with a 1 or 2 year extension, that would deplete his bargaining power and attraction to some other team, makes no sense, and thats why I'am not buying it.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 12:14
by Drj820
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 12:08
70 catches for about 700 yrds, we'll see though
i too imagine production around this number, but for all purpose yards, which would place him probably about the 2nd most productive WR.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 12:15
by NCF
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 12:08
just go look up how many receivers had to be used in the slot because Ervin was injured
So, last year only, Ervin's best output was 28 snaps (38% for that day). MVS' WORST output was 47% in the finale and then 53% in the opener. Lazard's WORST output was 47% against Chicago and then 60% against Indy. Even at his best Ervin was not taking snaps away from those two. It was a part-time role and that is what I expect for Rodgers. At least at first.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 12:18
by NCF
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 12:13
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 12:04
I mean, this we have been over and over. We know this because every reputable media head reported it
come on, the media doesn't know much more then we do, and surely doesn't know anything concerning any terms associated with a extension, and Rodgers wants 3 or 4 years with the same team, why would he go along with a 1 or 2 year extension, that would deplete his bargaining power and attraction to some other team, makes no sense, and thats why I'am not buying it.
We are not even talking about an extension. We are talking about pushing cap dollars from now until later. That's it. It became a big deal because word was the Packers didn't need Rodgers' permission to re-work the deal for cap purposes. That turned out to be false and that is how the facts came out.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 13 Jul 2021 12:21
by Drj820
NCF wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 12:15
Yoop wrote: ↑13 Jul 2021 12:08
just go look up how many receivers had to be used in the slot because Ervin was injured
So, last year only, Ervin's best output was 28 snaps (38% for that day). MVS' WORST output was 47% in the finale and then 53% in the opener. Lazard's WORST output was 47% against Chicago and then 60% against Indy. Even at his best Ervin was not taking snaps away from those two. It was a part-time role and that is what I expect for Rodgers. At least at first.
But Amari is waaayyy more of a swiss army knife than one trick motion pony Ervin. They can do all the things they did with Ervin, plus let him play as a true WR at times too. I think the Ervin comparison sort of slights Aramis broad potential.