From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
NCF, we have zero chance of landing any of the top 3 edge rushers, all 3 will go top 10
Honestly, the EDGE class is DEEP but not necessarily strong at the top. I think that Tyree Wilson and Mike Murphy would be back half of round 1 picks in most drafts, but will go top 15 because there's no one else to fill the void between Will Anderson and the rest.
But I also think there will be guys going in round 3 that would normally be second round guys because the next block has SO many different, intriguing options.
So I'm not concerned about getting a top-3 EDGE. In fact I don't want it. The value is on Day 2 or late in round one (depending on when the run starts) with guys like the athletic freak Keion White, who had insane GPS-timed numbers at the senior bowl this week in terms of his speed and acceleration, but is 280 pounds. And then you have undersized, but plenty strong Nolan Smith. You have a pure pass rusher in BJ Ojalari. Zach Harrison who is likely to have Gary-like measurables will go in the second. A guy I haven't seen much out of but who is considered a strong EDGE player in Isaiah Foskey. Derrick Hall and Will McDonald coming off of strong senior bowl weeks will be on day two (Hall might sneak into round 1 but I think that'd be a mistake). Oh, I almost totally forgot Byron Young and Tuli Tuipulotu.
I mean the second-round graded EDGE players are almost too numerous to name. And I like Dylan Horton as a 2nd rounder, but I dunno if others see him quite that high. And a ton of them have elite athletic upside in there, as well. I guess my point is that we don't need a top EDGE defender (and I even left Lucas Van Ness off the list because I'm not sure if he'll go at like 12 or like 25) to get a very quality member of an edge rotation from the jump to develop.
And that doesn't even include my Day Three sleepers that I love like Caleb Murphy (who had 26 sacks at Ferris St this past season, and while he didn't show out in practices at the Shrine game, but destroyed his opposing OTs in the game routinely). And Danny Perales. And this guy BJ Thompson from Steven F. Austin University, who is Will Anderson light but considered possibly one of the better all-around athletes at the Shrine Game in recent years.
I mean this is a REALLY good year to be searching for some pass rushers to fill out a rotation that can develop into starters.
thanks for all the imput Yoho, It'll take me a bit to sort out the players you mentioned, so I might come back to this post and add a comment later.
IMO we need to improve the pass rush, even if Gary comes back 100% so hopefully we can get some help there at edge or a DT, from what I've read there a big drop off after Wilson and Murphy, who most draft boards have as top 10 picks.
we have a few positions that could use improvement, Safety is also high on the list.
NCF, we have zero chance of landing any of the top 3 edge rushers, all 3 will go top 10
Honestly, the EDGE class is DEEP but not necessarily strong at the top. I think that Tyree Wilson and Mike Murphy would be back half of round 1 picks in most drafts, but will go top 15 because there's no one else to fill the void between Will Anderson and the rest.
But I also think there will be guys going in round 3 that would normally be second round guys because the next block has SO many different, intriguing options.
So I'm not concerned about getting a top-3 EDGE. In fact I don't want it. The value is on Day 2 or late in round one (depending on when the run starts) with guys like the athletic freak Keion White, who had insane GPS-timed numbers at the senior bowl this week in terms of his speed and acceleration, but is 280 pounds. And then you have undersized, but plenty strong Nolan Smith. You have a pure pass rusher in BJ Ojalari. Zach Harrison who is likely to have Gary-like measurables will go in the second. A guy I haven't seen much out of but who is considered a strong EDGE player in Isaiah Foskey. Derrick Hall and Will McDonald coming off of strong senior bowl weeks will be on day two (Hall might sneak into round 1 but I think that'd be a mistake). Oh, I almost totally forgot Byron Young and Tuli Tuipulotu.
I mean the second-round graded EDGE players are almost too numerous to name. And I like Dylan Horton as a 2nd rounder, but I dunno if others see him quite that high. And a ton of them have elite athletic upside in there, as well. I guess my point is that we don't need a top EDGE defender (and I even left Lucas Van Ness off the list because I'm not sure if he'll go at like 12 or like 25) to get a very quality member of an edge rotation from the jump to develop.
And that doesn't even include my Day Three sleepers that I love like Caleb Murphy (who had 26 sacks at Ferris St this past season, and while he didn't show out in practices at the Shrine game, but destroyed his opposing OTs in the game routinely). And Danny Perales. And this guy BJ Thompson from Steven F. Austin University, who is Will Anderson light but considered possibly one of the better all-around athletes at the Shrine Game in recent years.
I mean this is a REALLY good year to be searching for some pass rushers to fill out a rotation that can develop into starters.
Great write up Yoho. Admittently I haven't had the time this year to dig in like I normally do but wow what a group you put together.
Don't care what level 26 sacks is nuts but why didn't he make a jump to the next level. He looks really really lean imo.
Van Ness is tough as nails.
if we agree on everything else I will tell you you are dead wrong on Murphy. That dude is a better athlete then Anderson and bigger . He's a top 10 in any draft and just scratching the surface as a pass rusher . That's scary. it really is especially considering he was ranked one of the best run defenders through his career. This dude is elite.
if we agree on everything else I will tell you you are dead wrong on Murphy. That dude is a better athlete then Anderson and bigger . He's a top 10 in any draft and just scratching the surface as a pass rusher . That's scary. it really is especially considering he was ranked one of the best run defenders through his career. This dude is elite.
Ok, so I see Murphy as someone who is a slightly lesser Gary.... someone who went 12th overall. Someone who we knew would take maybe 2 years to justify his stock because he was a long-term project. Someone who showed the elite measurables but never had the production we expected. Someone whose run D in college was better than his pass rush production in college.
Gary is a pick I was hesitant about but came to admire and love. Murphy is similar--scratching the surface, more potential than production, a bit of a risk. That, to me, is a guy who should go around 16 or later. Not top 15. Back half of the first round. We went a couple picks earlier and our risk paid off. I'm glad we did it. But it was and still should be considered a gamble on development and that risk lessens the value to me.
Combining high ceilings and certainty/high floors is what creates the top-of-first-round value. Guys that are elite in their ceiling while still being somewhat sure things as football players. That's a top 15 kind of guy to me. This draft doesn't have more than maybe 6 or 7 of those guys. So I feel like the value between picks 5 and 15-20 is pretty bad. This class does not have nearly 15 top-15 caliber players. Murphy is a guy who will be drafted in that range for his upside, but who is an undeniable gamble in my eyes.
Great write up Yoho. Admittently I haven't had the time this year to dig in like I normally do but wow what a group you put together.
Yeah, ESPN/Scout, Inc/McShay has 14 edge rushers in their top 65. Daniel Jeremiah on nfl.com has 11 in his top 50. Th Athletic has 11 in the consensus big board's top-60. Basically, all sources have about 21-22% of the first two rounds. One edge every 4-5 picks. But none have more than 4 in their top 20; One every 5-6 picks.
The strength of this edge class is on day two and it's hard to narrow down my favorite options, but it's easy to think with one or two picks in the second and third rounds apiece, depending on if we trade Rodgers, we can add a solid player.
Gary is a pick I was hesitant about but came to admire and love. Murphy is similar--scratching the surface, more potential than production, a bit of a risk. That, to me, is a guy who should go around 16 or later. Not top 15. Back half of the first round. We went a couple picks earlier and our risk paid off. I'm glad we did it. But it was and still should be considered a gamble on development and that risk lessens the value to me.
see I think this is where we differ Yoho. ya know how you/we consider TE's project picks, and shy away from using a high pick on them, for me it's the same with using a high pick on any player outside of QB and DT on a player like a Gary that needs coaching up, a top 15 pick imo should be near plug and play ready.
to me thats what separates the Andersons from the rest, there readiness provides a more productive rookie contract, we'll be paying dearly for what has been so far 1 good season from Gary.
I also believe in the draft and develop process of team building, however, not so much when it comes to first round, specially high first round picks, the cost of these high draft picks, and the cost to retain them is just to high now to have a 12 slot draft pick grooming for 2 or more seasons on there rookie deal for me, nothing about the Gary pick made sense to me, the position had been fortified through UFA with the Smiths, imho we should have turned that slot into 2 picks in the top 40, and groomed those two, as your explaining here with this edge class, often your looking at the same player, one simply not as polished yet as the other.
with the bidding war for talent, ya need every season a rookie can provide, and if I'am picking top 20 that becomes a priority for me.
My big board up until we pick right now. I would pretty much follow this to a T right now if I was picking and it makes me think just how truly disgusting this draft class is.
Jalen Carter
Will Anderson
Myles Murphy
Anthony Richardson
Bijan Robison
Quinten Johnston
Broderick Jones
Paris Johnson
Jaxon Smith Njigba
Peter Skoronski
Tyree Wilson
Christian Gonzalez
Bryan Bresee
Bryce Young
Joey Porter
My big board up until we pick right now. I would pretty much follow this to a T right now if I was picking and it makes me think just how truly disgusting this draft class is.
Jalen Carter
Will Anderson
Myles Murphy
Anthony Richardson
Bijan Robison
Quinten Johnston
Broderick Jones
Paris Johnson
Jaxon Smith Njigba
Peter Skoronski
Tyree Wilson
Christian Gonzalez
Bryan Bresee
Bryce Young
Joey Porter
What makes you like Anthony Richardson so much above the rest?
This order change at all if QB's are just Aaron, just Jordan, or still both are on roster?
This is my order without Rodgers. With him I wouldn’t even consider taking a QB. That would be about as stupid as trading up for a QB when you were in the cusp of a SB. That just wouldn’t make any sense.
For me of the 4 possible 1st round QBs I think they’re all significantly flawed but Richardson has all upside.
Bryce Young is just too small and I’m always cautious of those Bama/OSU QBs that just dominate everyone because they’re stacked in the line and at receiver. They don’t see much adversity. I’m very interested to see where he measures. These 6’ and less QBs fail or get hurt more often than not.
Strouds arm to me isn’t that special. He’s fine. His athleticism is fine. He’s also had the best WR cast in college football history. Again he never had to really carry his team.
Levis to me is Jordan Love. He’s got a good arm and he’s mobile. He’s got good size but he’s not good on the field. He’s gonna be a 24 year old rookie. He should be better than he is.
Richardson has a cannon and he’s an athletic freak for the position. He’s got good size. He’s the next QB to play that’s gonna be that dual threat with good coaching.
Levis to me is Jordan Love. He’s got a good arm and he’s mobile. He’s got good size but he’s not good on the field. He’s gonna be a 24 year old rookie. He should be better than he is.
I'm so glad someone else said this because I've been thinking it for weeks (though their different ages matter a bit)
Also, while I totally agree with you Lupe about how "disgusting" the draft class is, to me, that only applies to the top tiers. It's a bad year to have a high pick. But I think there are like 16 players with a "first round grade*" but maybe 45 with "second round grades*"
*grades referring to my personal overall vibes of where I would select a player in a typical draft
I guess it depends what you consider early. I think everything dries up around pick 12 if 4 QBs go in those picks. If you have a mid pick like we do you’re screwed because there’s no value. I think the picks in the 20s have solid value.
I would be surprised if we see many trade in this draft. I can’t see players teams are in love with moving up for.
I guess it depends what you consider early. I think everything dries up around pick 12 if 4 QBs go in those picks. If you have a mid pick like we do you’re screwed because there’s no value. I think the picks in the 20s have solid value.
I would be surprised if we see many trade in this draft. I can’t see players teams are in love with moving up for.
Yes, I agree. I think if we're stuck at 15, we will wind up drafting someone who in normal years would go in the 20s. Because that's the best we have available. But I also think we should try to make as many selections as possible between, say, 25 and 75
I can’t imagine Johnston making it out of the top 10 after the combine. I think JSN won’t participate but I think he’s a real possibility. His type though usually goes late 1st early 2nd as like that technically good receiver but not physically dominant.
After research I really like Paris Johnson a ton. He is just a good person. Broderick Jones I think is a good fit for us. Skoronski I think is a good fit too as a guard. I really don’t want to be stuck with Tyree Wilson. I think he reminds me a bit of Marcus Davenport which is fine he’s just not going to be anything special IMO.
I guess it depends what you consider early. I think everything dries up around pick 12 if 4 QBs go in those picks. If you have a mid pick like we do you’re screwed because there’s no value. I think the picks in the 20s have solid value.
I would be surprised if we see many trade in this draft. I can’t see players teams are in love with moving up for.
I feel like a lot of cliches are said every year. I only have 18 first round grades this year (don't think I've ever seen anyone have ~35-40, its always around 20)
There is a cliff right before our pick, we have no value, etc. etc.
I actually love a lot of the guys who are presently projected anywhere in that 10-25 range for us. Now we know everything will move around in the coming month and every team will have different values and tiers. I won't even consider value much at this point. And like I said, I like guys I like, don't care if PFF has them ranked 40 right now, maybe I'll like them less or they'll eventually move up to that 15 range.
I'm just finally excited to be talking draft again after the annual which position coaches we should hire and what coaches need to be fired portion of the offseason.
I can’t imagine Johnston making it out of the top 10 after the combine. I think JSN won’t participate but I think he’s a real possibility. His type though usually goes late 1st early 2nd as like that technically good receiver but not physically dominant.
After research I really like Paris Johnson a ton. He is just a good person. Broderick Jones I think is a good fit for us. Skoronski I think is a good fit too as a guard. I really don’t want to be stuck with Tyree Wilson. I think he reminds me a bit of Marcus Davenport which is fine he’s just not going to be anything special IMO.
Torn on Johnston, he is a freak among freaks and I'm guessing that will be backed up in Indy. But at the same time, I like him don't love him on the field? I wouldn't be too surprised if he goes top 10, but I don't quite love him at WR and I think he might need a year or two.
I have a feeling he isn't on our radar, but my goodness is Calijah Kancey impressive.
Super obvious who he will always be comped to, given height, weight, get off, college. But until I see his 6 pack, don't think it will ever be warranted.
I don't think he wins with power as much as Donald did, but my God is he quick.
I feel like a lot of cliches are said every year. I only have 18 first round grades this year (don't think I've ever seen anyone have ~35-40, its always around 20)
There is a cliff right before our pick, we have no value, etc. etc.
I actually love a lot of the guys who are presently projected anywhere in that 10-25 range for us. Now we know everything will move around in the coming month and every team will have different values and tiers. I won't even consider value much at this point. And like I said, I like guys I like, don't care if PFF has them ranked 40 right now, maybe I'll like them less or they'll eventually move up to that 15 range.
I'm just finally excited to be talking draft again after the annual which position coaches we should hire and what coaches need to be fired portion of the offseason.
You are voicing the thoughts I had, but knew they would just be taken wrong, so I didn't. If we pick at 25, there are only 20 first rounders. If we pick at 15, there are only 12. And Yoho always wants 15 2nd and 3rd round picks!
All of our looks are based on what we get from the media, whose opinions will change in the next 2 months due to the combine and more information from NFL teams coming out.
For our perceived first pick needs I see these guys as possible picks at the moment:
Branch - S
Battle - S
Anderson - OLB
Murphy - OLB
Wilson - OLB
Carter - OLB
Mayer - TE
Johnston - WR
Addison - WR
Hyatt - WR
Smith-Njigba - WR
Carter - DT
Bresee - DT
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
Okay, this guy is gonna be a Packer in a few months, isn't he? He's the most Green Bay pick imaginable.
If we get Pick 7 from Oakland, this guy is a Packer. If 15 is our highest pick, I fully expect the unexpected draft day slide befalls him and we take him there. He has been available from time to time when I have used the PFF sim.
I would be happy to get OL help in the 1st but I think I prefer the OSU and Georgia dudes over him.
Get ready for some Topps card posts when Ringo finds out.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
Honestly, I don't want OL in the first this year. It's not really a need, especially with Nijman as a RFA.
Palmy - "Very few have the ability to truly excel regardless of system. For many the system is the difference between being just a guy or an NFL starter. Fact is, everyone is talented at this level."
