Packers Huddle

I’d like to see an expanded view and the video. Yes he’s wide open in this still. Rodgers to me looks to be looking right. Who was the first read, what’s the progression?

Was he the first read and where the cut block that was supposed to happen, didn’t happen and forced him to not throw the ball immediately like designed and look to the right? From this still he’s either just come off of looking at Wilson, or coming over to him imo.

I don’t know, do you guys? Apparently some do.

go pak go wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:11

Labrev wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 11:59

Yoop wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 11:47

to bad the FO didn't

Can't use that excuse now, this just happened with a different team/FO, one that you actually said would do a way better job serving him than our stinky FO has done (oof)...

Come on Labrev. The Jets have been ignoring the WR position for the last 6 to 7 years. They had how long to prepare for the eventual arrival of Rodgers and all they give him is a quick wraped junior varsity version 2021 Packers receiving corps.

You just wait. Had Rodgers not been injured...he would have lit the field on fire with the Jets. Probably another MVP run with his new team and new toys. I know it.

your so funny

funny how Guty finally caved and did exactly what I've been asking for Rodgers for 6 years, for his new boy..

Rodgers and this offense was best in the league when he had great receivers versus just ONE, and he almost always had a better protecting OL then he did last night for the Jets, the jets receivers weren't the problem, so dragging them into this as way to dis Rodgers is so lame.

musclestang wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:36

I’d like to see an expanded view and the video. Yes he’s wide open in this still. Rodgers to me looks to be looking right. Who was the first read, what’s the progression?

Was he the first read and where the cut block that was supposed to happen, didn’t happen and forced him to not throw the ball immediately like designed and look to the right? From this still he’s either just come off of looking at Wilson, or coming over to him imo.

I don’t know, do you guys? Apparently some do.

I don't know either. But he definitely held the ball on what was designed to be a quick throw. There is definitely reporting that he specifically complained to coaches about the blocking schemes that are designed for him to throw quickly. And he definitely has had a long-term trend of holding the ball, avoiding the middle of the field, and taking unnecessary sacks.

So to me a screenshot doesn't matter. Maybe there was a different read. Maybe there wasn't a quick option. But the play was designed to go quickly, and Rodgers failed to go quickly; he needed to throw it away if he couldn't find the open guy on a cut blocked 3-step drop. It's been his documented and evidence-backed m.o. for a long time. It's the flaw in his game I hated watching as a fan of his team, and that the national media never really grasped in their obsessive talk about him (because the highlights and accolades and positives far outweighed it).

But watching it live, video without screenshots, I commented about how long he held the ball, before knowing he was hurt. BF commented that a receiver was open across the middle. That was the view from the game as it happened, and it's the view of Rodgers as a QB for years.

He went down making the same mistake he so often makes. As Labrev said, this very thing has been his achilles heel for quite some time. The irony of that specific term and this specific injury is only too fitting. That doesn't mean he "deserves" to get hurt or anything. It's just not surprising that if he got injured it happened on a play like this where it was a quick design, he held the ball, and there was an option available to him if he had made a quick decision.

musclestang wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:36

I’d like to see an expanded view and the video. Yes he’s wide open in this still. Rodgers to me looks to be looking right. Who was the first read, what’s the progression?

Was he the first read and where the cut block that was supposed to happen, didn’t happen and forced him to not throw the ball immediately like designed and look to the right? From this still he’s either just come off of looking at Wilson, or coming over to him imo.

I don’t know, do you guys? Apparently some do.

Wilson is the 3rd read and he gets to him. Needs to pull the trigger, then the pass rusher doesn't bring him down.

musclestang wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:36

I’d like to see an expanded view and the video. Yes he’s wide open in this still. Rodgers to me looks to be looking right. Who was the first read, what’s the progression?

Was he the first read and where the cut block that was supposed to happen, didn’t happen and forced him to not throw the ball immediately like designed and look to the right? From this still he’s either just come off of looking at Wilson, or coming over to him imo.

I don’t know, do you guys? Apparently some do.

nobody here would bring that camera angle Musclestang, it wouldn't support there point of view that Rodgers is at fault for his injury holds the ball to long,

Yoop wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:45

nobody here would bring that camera angle Musclestang, it wouldn't support there point of view that Rodgers is at fault for his injury holds the ball to long,

I just did and it supports that Rodgers should have thrown to Wilson.

Yoop wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:45

musclestang wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:36

I’d like to see an expanded view and the video. Yes he’s wide open in this still. Rodgers to me looks to be looking right. Who was the first read, what’s the progression?

Was he the first read and where the cut block that was supposed to happen, didn’t happen and forced him to not throw the ball immediately like designed and look to the right? From this still he’s either just come off of looking at Wilson, or coming over to him imo.

I don’t know, do you guys? Apparently some do.

nobody here would bring that camera angle Musclestang, it wouldn't support there point of view that Rodgers is at fault for his injury holds the ball to long,

Just like yesterday with the Musgrave turning around conversation, you again make statements that are easily disproven. Perhaps this time the old dog will learn...?

The video evidence does indeed show that, yes, there were throwing options. Rodgers just chose not to. It's not lost upon observers that his options involved throwing over the middle, too, yet he chose not to.

Too funny...

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:44

Rodgers.gif

Wilson is the 3rd read and he gets to him. Needs to pull the trigger, then the pass rusher doesn't bring him down.

If Love held the ball like that, we'd be furious

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:43

musclestang wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:36

I’d like to see an expanded view and the video. Yes he’s wide open in this still. Rodgers to me looks to be looking right. Who was the first read, what’s the progression?

Was he the first read and where the cut block that was supposed to happen, didn’t happen and forced him to not throw the ball immediately like designed and look to the right? From this still he’s either just come off of looking at Wilson, or coming over to him imo.

I don’t know, do you guys? Apparently some do.

I don't know either. But he definitely held the ball on what was designed to be a quick throw. There is definitely reporting that he specifically complained to coaches about the blocking schemes that are designed for him to throw quickly. And he definitely has had a long-term trend of holding the ball, avoiding the middle of the field, and taking unnecessary sacks.

So to me a screenshot doesn't matter. Maybe there was a different read. Maybe there wasn't a quick option. But the play was designed to go quickly, and Rodgers failed to go quickly; he needed to throw it away if he couldn't find the open guy on a cut blocked 3-step drop. It's been his documented and evidence-backed m.o. for a long time. It's the flaw in his game I hated watching as a fan of his team, and that the national media never really grasped in their obsessive talk about him (because the highlights and accolades and positives far outweighed it).

But watching it live, video without screenshots, I commented about how long he held the ball, before knowing he was hurt. BF commented that a receiver was open across the middle. That was the view from the game as it happened, and it's the view of Rodgers as a QB for years.

He went down making the same mistake he so often makes. As Labrev said, this very thing has been his achilles heel for quite some time. The irony of that specific term and this specific injury is only too fitting. That doesn't mean he "deserves" to get hurt or anything. It's just not surprising that if he got injured it happened on a play like this where it was a quick design, he held the ball, and there was an option available to him if he had made a quick decision.

again, extending plays is what made Rodgers famous, and he was as good at it as any QB I've ever seen, then his ability at the WR position declined, to the point that extending plays often got him sacked because no one could clear, even Adams, so why keep McCarthy for 2018 after we new this stuff, why draft 3 very raw receiver that almost certainly had no chance to help McCarthy's offense or the QB tutored for years extending plays that same year?

Rodgers did well dialing the extending plays back and getting the ball out on schedule most of the time for Matts first 3 years, and even last year.

I think people are complaining about a trait that Rodgers is defined by, extending plays hoping to get more then a 5 yrd dumper is who Aaron Rodgers is, and he'll go first ballot because of it, to me it is a shame that Ted and then Brian didn't fix the WR position 6 or 7 years ago, most of all because I loved watching Rodgers extend plays and usually it working out to a huge gain.

APB wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:54

Yoop wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:45

musclestang wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:36

I’d like to see an expanded view and the video. Yes he’s wide open in this still. Rodgers to me looks to be looking right. Who was the first read, what’s the progression?

Was he the first read and where the cut block that was supposed to happen, didn’t happen and forced him to not throw the ball immediately like designed and look to the right? From this still he’s either just come off of looking at Wilson, or coming over to him imo.

I don’t know, do you guys? Apparently some do.

nobody here would bring that camera angle Musclestang, it wouldn't support there point of view that Rodgers is at fault for his injury holds the ball to long,

Just like yesterday with the Musgrave turning around conversation, you again make statements that are easily disproven. Perhaps this time the old dog will learn...?

The video evidence does indeed show that, yes, there were throwing options. Rodgers just chose not to. It's not lost upon observers that his options involved throwing over the middle, too, yet he chose not to.

Too funny...

Let's be fair here. Rodgers was looking right and saw 3 Bills defenders heading from the right toward the middle where the receiver coming from the left was heading towards. It was already pretty late to throw it to him and not get the receiver's head taken off.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:44

musclestang wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:36

I’d like to see an expanded view and the video. Yes he’s wide open in this still. Rodgers to me looks to be looking right. Who was the first read, what’s the progression?

Was he the first read and where the cut block that was supposed to happen, didn’t happen and forced him to not throw the ball immediately like designed and look to the right? From this still he’s either just come off of looking at Wilson, or coming over to him imo.

I don’t know, do you guys? Apparently some do.

Rodgers.gif

Wilson is the 3rd read and he gets to him. Needs to pull the trigger, then the pass rusher doesn't bring him down.

Looks like he sees the rusher as soon as he looks to Wilson. And he might have gotten the ball off, but he would have been stepping into a free running truck. Not sure that’s a better choice

Yoop wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 13:00

again, extending plays is what made Rodgers famous, and he was as good at it as any QB I've ever seen, then his ability at the WR position declined, to the point that extending plays often got him sacked because no one could clear, even Adams, so why keep McCarthy for 2018 after we new this stuff, why draft 3 very raw receiver that almost certainly had no chance to help McCarthy's offense or the QB tutored for years extending plays that same year?

Rodgers did well dialing the extending plays back and getting the ball out on schedule most of the time for Matts first 3 years, and even last year.

I think people are complaining about a trait that Rodgers is defined by, extending plays hoping to get more then a 5 yrd dumper is who Aaron Rodgers is, and he'll go first ballot because of it, to me it is a shame that Ted and then Brian didn't fix the WR position 6 or 7 years ago, most of all because I loved watching Rodgers extend plays and usually it working out to a huge gain.

He did make loads and loads of money and fame and special plays through avoiding sacks and extending plays. I agree.

And then he kept aging and he failed to adapt. He didn't become Tom Brady or Drew Brees who ALWAYS got the throw off and often to a checkdown, turning negative or neutral plays into small positives.

The point is not to throw 5-yard passes every play, as you keep saying, or to be a robot, as you've mentioned.

The point is to play within the system, up-tempo, and get the ball out of his hands once he lacked the athleticism or bodily constitution to escape and absorb in his earlier years.

You're right, in 2020 and 2021 he did a much better job. As he got comfortable in a quicker offense, he did release the ball faster. There is evidence of that (I think he was near the top one year in low time to release, which is a reversal of his career numbers). But he often reverted.

I don't understand the argument here. It's not like people are saying he was bad. They're saying the thing he did worst in his game was getting rid of the ball quickly and over the middle. Numerous reviews and tape studies and numbers have been crunched to this degree, and the eye test confirmed it as well.

You can be great as a play extender. And you can be great as a pocket manager. Rodgers had the capability to do either. But he LIKED the former so much more that he never fully bought into his role. He tried to escape Leonard Floyd last night and got caught. On a 3-step drop with 3 reads down the middle of the field within 10-12 yards of the line of scrimmage. With a blocking scheme that mandated a quick release. There was no big play to be made. It was make the throw, or don't. He took the sack. It was emblematic of his larger flaw.

Yoop wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 12:36

Labrev wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 11:59

Yoop wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 11:47

to bad the FO didn't

Can't use that excuse now, this just happened with a different team/FO, one that you actually said would do a way better job serving him than our stinky FO has done (oof)...

sure I can, just did, and it makes a ton of sense to me.

No idea why, seeing as the Packers FO has almost nothing to do with his supporting cast in NYJ.

never new the Jets OL coach preferred his tackles to lay down, (chop block) this is another classic example of Rodgers coaches not taking his advice, and now they got him hurt, serves those people right,

Nope, Rodgers's injury is his own damn fault. If he took what he was given and followed the play as it was drawn up than think he knows better than the coaches, because he is too arrogant to realize someone he does not think is smarter than him might still have good ideas worth listening to, then he never would have gotten hit, sacked, and injured.

It's as they say, pride comes before the fall.

But yes, it does serve the coaches right, their mistake was ever putting their faith in that stubborn donkey.

Rodgers is and always has been a big play QB, asking him to throw dinky dunkers is like asking a marathoner to run a sprint

What a ridiculous comment.

A slant over the middle of probably at least seven air yards is not a "dinky dunker" <sic>. By that thinking, every pass that is not a long ball shot play is just dinking and dunking, when in reality what people refer to as dinking and dunking are short checkdown passes to RBs in the flats and other passes around the LOS. That completion probably moves the chains at the very least. If you want big play passes, you will have more chances to do it if you stay on the field, which means you need some plays that just move the chains.

Second, with all the space in front of him, he probably would have racked up a lot of YAC yards.

Third, that's Garrett Wilson, the Jets' best WR (on a receiving corps. that is purportedly so much better than what he had last year), whom Rodgers has compared to Davante Adams. Why on earth would you pass up an easy opportunity to get the ball in his hands, knowing he will make good things happen with it, no matter where on the field he is receiving the ball?

like asking a marathoner to run a sprint, sure they can do it, but it's not what they do best.

I think if ya want a QB to adjust from what they do best to a new preferred scheme then ya do that when there mahomes age, and even he will at times revert back to old tendencies, Rodgers can do anything and make any kind of throw but the short coastal stuff bores him, same way it would bore any great passer.

Funny thing is, you have said Mac's problem was we needed more "small ball" as you called it than all the iso vert routes. Now Rodgers's new team dials up some small ball and you are like, no, bad, small ball does not let Rodgers make downfield plays as he does best. And it's just sooo boring.

It's why Lafleur has always given Rodgers the freedom to extend plays simply because it usually ends up hugely positive outcome, people castigate him based on the very few times it's not.

Yeah, and then LaFleur gave Rodgers the freedom to walk out the door. Notice how Matt finally stopped looking scared at the thought of not having Rodgers at QB at the end of last season? MLF got tired of his crap.

[mention]Yoop[/mention],

You always claimed if Rodgers just had guys like young/prime Cobb he would have thrown over the middle more.

Well, there goes that argument: he had Garrett Wilson, last year's OROY, a WR more naturally gifted than Cobb, who got open on schedule i.e. BEFORE the pressure came, he had everything you claimed he needed to throw over the middle...

... and Rodgers STILL did not pull the trigger on the slant.

musclestang wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 13:23

Looks like he sees the rusher as soon as he looks to Wilson. And he might have gotten the ball off, but he would have been stepping into a free running truck. Not sure that’s a better choice

Knowing it is a 3 step drop and the linemen are cutting the pass rushers, he HAS TO let it fly the moment he sees Wilson open. Instead he sees Wilson open and in the next instant sees the pass rush and tries to extend the play.

musclestang wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 13:23

Looks like he sees the rusher as soon as he looks to Wilson. And he might have gotten the ball off, but he would have been stepping into a free running truck. Not sure that’s a better choice

Than getting hit/injured anyway while losing his team yardage with a sack? Yes, throwing to Wilson objectively is a (much) better choice.

Regardless, standing tall in the pocket and delivering a pass when pressure and a likely hit is coming is in the job description at QB.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 13:25

Yoop wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 13:00

again, extending plays is what made Rodgers famous, and he was as good at it as any QB I've ever seen, then his ability at the WR position declined, to the point that extending plays often got him sacked because no one could clear, even Adams, so why keep McCarthy for 2018 after we new this stuff, why draft 3 very raw receiver that almost certainly had no chance to help McCarthy's offense or the QB tutored for years extending plays that same year?

Rodgers did well dialing the extending plays back and getting the ball out on schedule most of the time for Matts first 3 years, and even last year.

I think people are complaining about a trait that Rodgers is defined by, extending plays hoping to get more then a 5 yrd dumper is who Aaron Rodgers is, and he'll go first ballot because of it, to me it is a shame that Ted and then Brian didn't fix the WR position 6 or 7 years ago, most of all because I loved watching Rodgers extend plays and usually it working out to a huge gain.

He did make loads and loads of money and fame and special plays through avoiding sacks and extending plays. I agree.

And then he kept aging and he failed to adapt. He didn't become Tom Brady or Drew Brees who ALWAYS got the throw off and often to a checkdown, turning negative or neutral plays into small positives.

The point is not to throw 5-yard passes every play, as you keep saying, or to be a robot, as you've mentioned.

The point is to play within the system, up-tempo, and get the ball out of his hands once he lacked the athleticism or bodily constitution to escape and absorb in his earlier years.

You're right, in 2020 and 2021 he did a much better job. As he got comfortable in a quicker offense, he did release the ball faster. There is evidence of that (I think he was near the top one year in low time to release, which is a reversal of his career numbers). But he often reverted.

I don't understand the argument here. It's not like people are saying he was bad. They're saying the thing he did worst in his game was getting rid of the ball quickly and over the middle. Numerous reviews and tape studies and numbers have been crunched to this degree, and the eye test confirmed it as well.

You can be great as a play extender. And you can be great as a pocket manager. Rodgers had the capability to do either. But he LIKED the former so much more that he never fully bought into his role. He tried to escape Leonard Floyd last night and got caught. On a 3-step drop with 3 reads down the middle of the field within 10-12 yards of the line of scrimmage. With a blocking scheme that mandated a quick release. There was no big play to be made. It was make the throw, or don't. He took the sack. It was emblematic of his larger flaw.

Rodgers skills didn't decline so much Yoho that talent equal replacements for the declining Cobb ,Nelson, wouldn't have kept him from throwing inside or more on schedule.

you and I, I expect will always differ on this , I think it's almost impossible for a QB (any player) to reinvent themselves completely, and will at times revert back to earlier training and habits when push comes to shove and last season was a fair representation of that, seemed no one was open on schedule very often.

also why not do as we preach, we talk all the time about scheming around the strength of talent, we had the most talented deep ball passer in the league, who as you admit was great also in up tempo, what I'am trying to get across here is that any receiver with talent would do, instead our GM's gave him mid, to late, to UDFA wannabe's to make do, so why Rodgers gets the blame never made sense to me, so again, it gives me no pleasure to disagree with you and others, and obviously I know everyone mostly likes Rodgers, but I've always been on the other side of the isle with these complaints, cause imo it is so hard for anyone to switch from what has been very successful most of there career.

as I said I have never been able to figure out what went on in 2017, the issues seemed so clear to me, either help McCarthy, or fire him, his pass routes where failing because we didn't have the receiver talent to support them, and we had a QB that thrived in those pass schemes, the drafting of Brown, MVS and ? was such a futures decision, when we needed help for the present.

everyone has and are entitled to there opinion about this stuff, mine is that I blame our GM's for the downside of Rodgers career, I doubt and don't see any reason for that to change.

and in no way does that mean I dislike or hate Gutekunst.

Labrev wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 13:30

@Yoop,

You always claimed if Rodgers just had guys like young/prime Cobb he would have thrown over the middle more.

Well, there goes that argument: he had Garrett Wilson, last year's OROY, a WR more naturally gifted than Cobb, who got open on schedule i.e. BEFORE the pressure came, he had everything you claimed he needed to throw over the middle...

... and Rodgers STILL did not pull the trigger on the slant.

one has nothing to do with the other, any of those 3 WR would have been a pass over the middle, he passes over the middle more then he's given credit for

It seems if you look closely enough, Rodgers saw Wilson come free on the slant but he also saw Leonard Floyd coming full speed on the rush. Rodgers seems to let Wilson clear the middle while baiting Floyd to keep coming hard and trying to set him up with the spin move to escape and get outside the pocket and extend the play. Rodgers doesnt even attempt to release a pass to Wilson but does seem to be getting his feet and shoulders ready to Spin away from Floyd as he was coming full go. Rodgers has always relied on that move to escape the pocket and get out to the outside and find someone further down field or run it himself. I personally think that he was setting Floyd up to get an escape and he timing was off on the spin move and got dragged down while his feet where still trying to excute the spin and putting a lot of push on his lower legs because he wanted to spin away from Floyd and get outside. We have seen him do this countless of times and this time he timed it wrong and got his feet in a bad predicament. Just my opinion

I don't disagree, but it's an aspect of his game he should have been actively trying to change as he got older. It's not something that he can rely on as an almost 40 year old.