Jordan Freaking Love

[Yoop]

'Funny how getting chewed out by their QB in front of millions of people was not at all necessary for the WRs to improve.

Obviously taking a shot at Rodgers here. I would have preferred him not doing that either. Other legendary QBs have gotten openly testy with their teammates during games on national TV also though. I think we all know that. I am referring to P. Manning and Brady.

Some guys can handle it and it might be a positive, others maybe not so much. I guess I just feel like sticking up for my old QB.

I know MLF (not Rodgers) bitched the hell out of Musgrave this year for something he did wrong openly and then preceded to bench him for a bit. Sometimes its tough to be chill when you practice something over and over and then a teammate or coworker somehow $%@# it up.

Again. I would have preferred Rodgers not do that sort of thing ( although i don't believe he had any malicious point to it, he was just frustrated as a professional athlete.) Sometimes I feel Rogers got criticized too much for this. I do think he got to be a crabby old man a bit toward the end in GB. I will give you that. But, (tears) Thats my QB man.

give Love 4 or 5 years, he wont be inclined to put up with receivers that continually screw up, or play with there cell phones when they be should listening in meetings, If a player can't handle constructive criticism from his QB then maybe playing in the NFL is to much for them.

this is a team sport, when one guy screws up it affects every player, I want a leader that demands accountability

[TheSkeptic]

'Funny how getting chewed out by their QB in front of millions of people was not at all necessary for the WRs to improve.

Obviously taking a shot at Rodgers here. I would have preferred him not doing that either. Other legendary QBs have gotten openly testy with their teammates during games on national TV also though. I think we all know that. I am referring to P. Manning and Brady.

Some guys can handle it and it might be a positive, others maybe not so much. I guess I just feel like sticking up for my old QB.

I know MLF (not Rodgers) bitched the hell out of Musgrave this year for something he did wrong openly and then preceded to bench him for a bit. Sometimes its tough to be chill when you practice something over and over and then a teammate or coworker somehow $%@# it up.

Again. I would have preferred Rodgers not do that sort of thing ( although i don't believe he had any malicious point to it, he was just frustrated as a professional athlete.) Sometimes I feel Rogers got criticized too much for this. I do think he got to be a crabby old man a bit toward the end in GB. I will give you that. But, (tears) Thats my QB man.

give Love 4 or 5 years, he wont be inclined to put up with receivers that continually screw up, or play with there cell phones when they be should listening in meetings, If a player can't handle constructive criticism from his QB then maybe playing in the NFL is to much for them.

This is not something that Love will have to worry about. With 5 starting quality WR's and 2 starting quality TE's and everyone young, anyone who is not pulling his weight will not be on the field. Rodgers did have to worry about this as for a while he had only Adams as a legitimate starter, a bunch of WR#4's and a TE that was never the same after an ACL injury.

this is a team sport, when one guy screws up it affects every player, I want a leader that demands accountability

[TheSkeptic]

'Funny how getting chewed out by their QB in front of millions of people was not at all necessary for the WRs to improve.

Obviously taking a shot at Rodgers here. I would have preferred him not doing that either. Other legendary QBs have gotten openly testy with their teammates during games on national TV also though. I think we all know that. I am referring to P. Manning and Brady.

Some guys can handle it and it might be a positive, others maybe not so much. I guess I just feel like sticking up for my old QB.

I know MLF (not Rodgers) bitched the hell out of Musgrave this year for something he did wrong openly and then preceded to bench him for a bit. Sometimes its tough to be chill when you practice something over and over and then a teammate or coworker somehow $%@# it up.

Again. I would have preferred Rodgers not do that sort of thing ( although i don't believe he had any malicious point to it, he was just frustrated as a professional athlete.) Sometimes I feel Rogers got criticized too much for this. I do think he got to be a crabby old man a bit toward the end in GB. I will give you that. But, (tears) Thats my QB man.

give Love 4 or 5 years, he wont be inclined to put up with receivers that continually screw up, or play with there cell phones when they be should listening in meetings, If a player can't handle constructive criticism from his QB then maybe playing in the NFL is to much for them.

this is a team sport, when one guy screws up it affects every player, I want a leader that demands accountability

This is not something that Love will have to worry about. With 5 starting quality WR's and 2 starting quality TE's and everyone young, anyone who is not pulling his weight will not be on the field. Rodgers did have to worry about this as for a while he had only Adams as a legitimate starter, a bunch of WR#4's and a TE that was never the same after an ACL injury.

[Yoop]

Obviously taking a shot at Rodgers here. I would have preferred him not doing that either. Other legendary QBs have gotten openly testy with their teammates during games on national TV also though. I think we all know that. I am referring to P. Manning and Brady.

Some guys can handle it and it might be a positive, others maybe not so much. I guess I just feel like sticking up for my old QB.

I know MLF (not Rodgers) bitched the hell out of Musgrave this year for something he did wrong openly and then preceded to bench him for a bit. Sometimes its tough to be chill when you practice something over and over and then a teammate or coworker somehow $%@# it up.

Again. I would have preferred Rodgers not do that sort of thing ( although i don't believe he had any malicious point to it, he was just frustrated as a professional athlete.) Sometimes I feel Rogers got criticized too much for this. I do think he got to be a crabby old man a bit toward the end in GB. I will give you that. But, (tears) Thats my QB man.

give Love 4 or 5 years, he wont be inclined to put up with receivers that continually screw up, or play with there cell phones when they be should listening in meetings, If a player can't handle constructive criticism from his QB then maybe playing in the NFL is to much for them.

this is a team sport, when one guy screws up it affects every player, I want a leader that demands accountability

This is not something that Love will have to worry about. With 5 starting quality WR's and 2 starting quality TE's and everyone young, anyone who is not pulling his weight will not be on the field. Rodgers did have to worry about this as for a while he had only Adams as a legitimate starter, a bunch of WR#4's and a TE that was never the same after an ACL injury.

the point is that Love wont put up with lack of effort when it comes to players knowing and performing just as Rodgers did, and we should support that, not sit and whine because the QB expects players to do stuff right, no one gets on a player thats giving a 100% on the field or in the team meetings, Rodgers never did that. I think some people just look for anything to complain about the past QB

[Labrev]

This is not up for debate anymore. Chew-outs were defended as necessary to get poor play to improve. Yet we saw no improvement last season when this was done. I said then, clearly it is not working, so a different approach needs to be pursued.

And people were like, "well what else is there??" like it's some kind of rocket science.

Love just showed how it's done. What Love did was work behind the scenes to get them to improve. He worked out with them in the offseason, and in-season, he hosted film-session dinners to get everyone on the same page and build real camaraderie (much apart from the last guy who couldn't be bothered to work out with them in the offseason). This time, we DID we improvement.

Turns out, humiliating guys in public just destroys their confidence and leads to no improvement, while taking young guys under your wing and guiding them actual constructive criticism (not the deranged hissy fits that's disingenuously being called constructive) gets positive results.

Who would have thought?!?

[Labrev]

Or, for that matter, here is what Aaron Jones did after Dontayvion Wicks fumbled the ball in the Rams game.



He literally made Wicks keep his head up! And, as noted in the Tweet, he has been great ever since. That is how it's done. This is not rocket science.

[Yoop]

BS, it it wasn't up for debate any more why do you keep bringing it up? reality is that the team needed Doubs, Watson, Touri etc. to get up to speed, catch balls, run routes right so Rodgers pushed them, and they did improve, your acting like these youngsters should be lolly coddled.

Rodgers had 20 years in the league, if you don't think Love will run out of patience with age your fooling yourself, also if you don't think Rodgers did the same &%$@ Love is doing now his rookie season it's because you where 10 years old at the time, he did behind the scenes stuff with his receivers back then to, just maybe if you weren't so blinded by your hate for the guy you'd realize that.

[NCF]

I think we don't know what Love will do with success and age. What we do know (at least most of us) is that Rodgers didn't handle success and age as well as he could have (in hindsight). Neither did Brett. I think Jordan is very different than Brett and Aaron. He's just more chill and we haven't seen a glimpse of anything overwhelm him, yet. I think Brett and Aaron have a little more alpha... and maybe entitlement than I see in Jordan.

[Labrev]

it it wasn't up for debate any more why do you keep bringing it up?

I brought it up now because now, the opposite approach was finally tried. So now we have the data to confirm my hypothesis.

if you don't think Love will run out of patience with age your fooling yourself,

Okay, and we can also lay this idea to rest, because Aaron Jones is a vet and showed patience to Wicks after a costly fumble.

also if you don't think Rodgers did the same &%$@ Love is doing now his rookie season it's because you where 10 years old at the time,

And how old were you, 90? You cannot be expected to remember what you had for breakfast earlier in the day, much less remember years later what was going on at Lambeau Field.

he did behind the scenes stuff with his receivers back then to,

He did it "back then" -?

Well that begs the question, why did he stop doing something ostensibly beneficial to the team?

I think some people just look for anything to complain about the past QB

You think this (wrongly) because you are an emotional person. You do not understand dispassionate, logical thinking men like me.

I am only interested in what works. If a thing does not work, I want to try something different, until we find something that does. Clearly what was going on did not work, so I wanted to try the opposite approach. We did it this time, it did work.

That is accountability in a REAL sense, identifying a problem area and trying different things to get improvement, making it a principle and holding everyone to that standard.

You talk accountability, but in reality, you play favorites, notably exempting Rodgers from ANY accountability.

[MY_TAKE]

This is not up for debate anymore.

apparently it is...LOL

I am not really disagreeing with your overall premise. I believe some of his former teammates have stuck up for him too some.

I just spoke up because you were ripping him.

[Yoop]

And how old were you, 90? You cannot be expected to remember what you had for breakfast earlier in the day, much less remember years later what was going on at Lambeau Field.

old enough to know that I read of Rodgers and his receivers getting together in his early years, old enough to know Jones is a puppy now compared to Rodgers the last decade, old enough to know that older players/people lose patience when young guys continue screwing up, prettu much the way I've lost patience with you, and others that continue to hate on Rodgers.


I wasn't going to answer you because I'am sure you'll drag this conversation to hell and back, and this is a time to rejoice, and you'll just ruin it, C YA

[Labrev]

I just spoke up because you were ripping him.

There's the problem. I was ripping an action. Interpreting the action as a proxy for debating Aaron Rodgers implies that the person is the primary target. He is not; I am opposed to the action regardless of the person.

And frankly, there would be little disagreement with my take if it were read at its face-value rather than an extension of a separate debate, because it's intuitively understandable as true. The only disagreement would come from people who like or identify as tyrant leaders.

Yet it gets uncomfortable here because of what it implies about Rodgers, who for some is a sacred cow.

I do not believe in sacred cows; they are an impediment to free thought.

[go pak go]

Rodgers can have the excuses of being too old and not wanting to the team chemistry stuff. That is fine.

But it just proves even more why I wanted to move on and the result we are seeing shows the importance of a QB being in synce with his young team. I'm sure Jordan Love will change at some point too. I was convinced Rodgers wouldn't...until he did. But until then I am enjoying the heck out of watching Jordan Love.

[Yoop]

Rodgers can have the excuses of being too old and not wanting to the team chemistry stuff. That is fine.

But it just proves even more why I wanted to move on and the result we are seeing shows the importance of a QB being in synce with his young team. I'm sure Jordan Love will change at some point too. I was convinced Rodgers wouldn't...until he did. But until then I am enjoying the heck out of watching Jordan Love.

It's foolish to think as players age they'll have the same exuberance as they did 15 years prior when they started, we drafted 20 receivers during Rodgers tenure and brought in that many or more UDFA, thats 15 seasons of Rodgers breaking in new recruits.

He soured it seems the last few seasons of breaking in marginal talent, imho as most older QB's would, and which I also expect we'll see with Love in that time frame, it human nature.

[go pak go]

Rodgers can have the excuses of being too old and not wanting to the team chemistry stuff. That is fine.

But it just proves even more why I wanted to move on and the result we are seeing shows the importance of a QB being in synce with his young team. I'm sure Jordan Love will change at some point too. I was convinced Rodgers wouldn't...until he did. But until then I am enjoying the heck out of watching Jordan Love.

It's foolish to think as players age they'll have the same exuberance as they did 15 years prior when they started, we drafted 20 receivers during Rodgers tenure and brought in that many or more UDFA, thats 15 seasons of Rodgers breaking in new recruits.

He soured it seems the last few seasons of breaking in marginal talent, imho as most older QB's would, and which I also expect we'll see with Love in that time frame, it human nature.

Agreed. So maybe it's better to move on earlier rather than get to that stage that we saw in 2021 and especially into 2022.

2022 should have never happened. It made little sense at the time and it makes complete nonsense now. 2022 should have been Love's real first year.

[MY_TAKE]

I just spoke up because you were ripping him.

There's the problem. I was ripping an action. Interpreting the action as a proxy for debating Aaron Rodgers implies that the person is the primary target. He is not; I am opposed to the action regardless of the person.

And frankly, there would be little disagreement with my take if it were read at its face-value rather than an extension of a separate debate, because it's intuitively understandable as true. The only disagreement would come from people who like or identify as tyrant leaders.

Yet it gets uncomfortable here because of what it implies about Rodgers, who for some is a sacred cow.

I do not believe in sacred cows; they are an impediment to free thought.

You may be opposed to the action but make no mistake about it, you were talking directly about Rodgers lets not get cute with language semantics.

I really don't want to argue about much anymore ,but here I am. Your statement is just an opinion nonetheless. There is no absolute proof one way is better than the other. That my friend is a fact. I have soft spots or Favre and Rodgers. Not sure if they are on my sacred cow list. And once again, I didnt love it myself, but you said it and I responded in a little bit of defense.

[Labrev]

You may be opposed to the action but make no mistake about it, you were talking directly about Rodgers lets not get cute with language semantics.

Oh I was well aware at the time that my post is a shot at Rodgers. But no, it is not a shot at Rodgers for the sake of taking a shot at him.

It is a shot at a specific practice of his that I dislike and do not want to see again, in the same vein there were things Favre did that I disliked and did not want to see again (throwing up prayers that often came down as INTs), things that by the way I have condemned when other people do them.

Your statement is just an opinion nonetheless. There is no absolute proof one way is better than the other.

Every theory is "just an opinion" but some are much truer than others. I substantiated my opinion with some reasonably sound logic and evidence: we tried the chew-out route last year, little improvement from struggling players; we tried a very different tack this year, saw much more improvement from struggling players (a couple of the exact same players as from last year).

More to the point, it was argued last year that chew-outs MUST be done for "accountability" purposes. Yet improvement on offense occurred without chew-outs from their QB or other veteran teammates. So that idea has been debunked, pretty objectively.

[MY_TAKE]

Rodgers can have the excuses of being too old and not wanting to the team chemistry stuff. That is fine.

But it just proves even more why I wanted to move on and the result we are seeing shows the importance of a QB being in synce with his young team. I'm sure Jordan Love will change at some point too. I was convinced Rodgers wouldn't...until he did. But until then I am enjoying the heck out of watching Jordan Love.

Really don't disagree. I was annoyed with him not embracing the young talent and not working out with them and such. However, There are plenty of veterans in their sports that don't want to deal with rookies or young guys. It doesn't necessarily make them dicks. It might, but maybe not.
Lebron James is a good example of this.

[APB]

Sorry to barge in on yet another Rodgers off-topic debate, but it seems Davante Adams is sold on Jordan Love.

You know, the same Jordan Love mentioned in the topic line of this thread...?

[Acrobat]

Rodgers can have the excuses of being too old and not wanting to the team chemistry stuff. That is fine.

But it just proves even more why I wanted to move on and the result we are seeing shows the importance of a QB being in synce with his young team. I'm sure Jordan Love will change at some point too. I was convinced Rodgers wouldn't...until he did. But until then I am enjoying the heck out of watching Jordan Love.

Really don't disagree. I was annoyed with him not embracing the young talent and not working out with them and such. However, There are plenty of veterans in their sports that don't want to deal with rookies or young guys. It doesn't necessarily make them dicks. It might, but maybe not.
Lebron James is a good example of this.

Does kind of make you a less than stellar teammate though. Yeah, it's not easy to relate to people 15-20 years younger than you, but when you're getting paid that kind of money to be the franchise QB, you gotta learn how to do it.