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Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 15 Feb 2024 18:21
by BF004
go pak go wrote: ↑15 Feb 2024 17:55
BF004 wrote: ↑15 Feb 2024 15:47
Well A) That has nothing to do with the conversation. It was Brian was a terrible GM from '18-'21. B) By no means do I think he was perfect and without blame, just think terrible is a terrible description given our success. C) Not sure how or why that brought our your response about never anyone to blame. With an lol at the end. So yeah, about the level of quality I'm used to. Just calling a spade a spade. D) On this completely unrelated and different topic about 2023 kickers, I was the only person on the board that I remember saying we should sign Mason Crosby to our active 53, and not just after the fact, how about that. So interesting you would choose my post to reference about never anyone to blame, one who was actively pre-emptively asking to fix the kicker spot for the playoffs, for the reason of not fixing the kicker spot. With an lol.
You and I were both in the kick the tires on Crosby camp. We talked about the open roster spot with Enegbare going on IR.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 15 Feb 2024 18:55
by RingoCStarrQB
Regardless of the Packers place kicking challenges, beating Dallas on the road and getting to the NFC Championship Game versus the San Francisco 49ers with the youngest team in the league was an awesome feat all by itself.............. again "regardless". So quit all of this bellyaching.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 16 Feb 2024 08:14
by Drj820
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑15 Feb 2024 18:55
Regardless of the Packers place kicking challenges, beating Dallas on the road and getting to the NFC Championship Game versus the San Francisco 49ers with the youngest team in the league was an awesome feat all by itself.............. again "regardless". So quit all of this bellyaching.
would have been awesome to make it to the NFC Championship game, totally agree
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 16 Feb 2024 15:27
by APB
It's somewhat fascinating to me how there is this belief that Crosby would have undoubtedly been an upgrade for a playoff run.
Crosby struggled with two teams this past year, hitting 5/7 FGs and 6/7 XPs. Only 2 of his 16 KO went for touchbacks. Carlson had better season % stats in every category. Crosby was every bit as bad (or worse) as Carlson and would have been a sure 35 yd line starting spot (or better) for opposing offenses with his feeble kickoffs.
Anders wasn't good, sure, but Crosby wasn't the answer either. The Ghost of Crosby's Past still haunts this forum.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 16 Feb 2024 15:44
by Yoop
APB wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 15:27
It's somewhat fascinating to me how there is this belief that Crosby would have undoubtedly been an upgrade for a playoff run.
Crosby struggled with two teams this past year, hitting 5/7 FGs and 6/7 XPs. Only 2 of his 16 KO went for touchbacks. Carlson had better season % stats in every category. Crosby was every bit as bad (or worse) as Carlson and would have been a sure 35 yd line starting spot (or better) for opposing offenses with his feeble kickoffs.
Anders wasn't good, sure, but Crosby wasn't the answer either. The Ghost of Crosby's Past still haunts this forum.
we like Mason more
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 16 Feb 2024 16:35
by Labrev
I would have been in favor of bringing in Crosby for our playoff run for the XPs and high-pressure kicks under 45 yards, while having Carlson hit the kickoffs and kicks over 45 yards. I think Crosby is a slightly more trustworthy kicker in the clutch/playoffs.
That said, Mase was no Mr. Reliable himself. I think the improvement he offers over Carlson, if any at all, is minimal. So it was not some egregious error to stick with Carlson.
Those who complain why went with Carlson at all, I just keep having to ask, "Who would you have gone with?"
It's easy to say Carlson is not good enough, but it is kind of a meaningless criticism is you cannot point to an opportunity we had to get a guy who would have been better.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 16 Feb 2024 16:46
by Yoop
Labrev wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 16:35
I would have been in favor of bringing in Crosby for our playoff run for the XPs and high-pressure kicks under 45 yards, while having Carlson hit the kickoffs and kicks over 45 yards. I think Crosby is a slightly more trustworthy kicker in the clutch/playoffs.
That said, Mase was no Mr. Reliable himself. I think the improvement he offers over Carlson, if any at all, is minimal. So it was not some egregious error to stick with Carlson.
Those who complain why went with Carlson at all, I just keep having to ask, "Who would you have gone with?"
It's easy to say Carlson is not good enough, but it is kind of a meaningless criticism is you cannot point to an opportunity we had to get a guy who would have been better.
right because we have just as much insider info as these GM's
It's not up to us to know who is available, who we could possibly pick off someones PS
and what is minimal improvement? 1 EP, 1 FG to tie or win a game isn't the same as a miss during the season or when the outcome isn't in doubt, I just can't relate to that as minimal, we should have brought someone in, and again it's not up to us to know who that should be, where not making 5 mil. to manage this team
hopefully Carlson has a 2nd year leap, gets consistent, like his brother.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 16 Feb 2024 17:39
by Labrev
Yoop wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 16:46
Labrev wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 16:35
I would have been in favor of bringing in Crosby for our playoff run for the XPs and high-pressure kicks under 45 yards, while having Carlson hit the kickoffs and kicks over 45 yards. I think Crosby is a slightly more trustworthy kicker in the clutch/playoffs.
That said, Mase was no Mr. Reliable himself. I think the improvement he offers over Carlson, if any at all, is minimal. So it was not some egregious error to stick with Carlson.
Those who complain why went with Carlson at all, I just keep having to ask, "Who would you have gone with?"
It's easy to say Carlson is not good enough, but it is kind of a meaningless criticism is you cannot point to an opportunity we had to get a guy who would have been better.
right because we have just as much insider info as these GM's
It's not up to us to know who is available, who we could possibly pick off someones PS
and what is minimal improvement? 1 EP, 1 FG to tie or win a game isn't the same as a miss during the season or when the outcome isn't in doubt, I just can't relate to that as minimal, we should have brought someone in, and again it's not up to us to know who that should be, where not making 5 mil. to manage this team
hopefully Carlson has a 2nd year leap, gets consistent, like his brother.
I know you recently made this argument for your WR pet topic so you are gonna play this card a lot now, but in this case, although we cannot "know" it is very safe to infer, because good kickers are even harder to find now than QBs—no good kicker is "available" because then the team has them (which is only about 16 teams) that gives them away will not have one. Duh. Unless you do something ridiculous like offer a 1st round pick or a quality starter, which would just be stupid.
Also, practice squads are public knowledge.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 12:16
by Yoop
Labrev wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 17:39
Yoop wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 16:46
Labrev wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 16:35
I would have been in favor of bringing in Crosby for our playoff run for the XPs and high-pressure kicks under 45 yards, while having Carlson hit the kickoffs and kicks over 45 yards. I think Crosby is a slightly more trustworthy kicker in the clutch/playoffs.
That said, Mase was no Mr. Reliable himself. I think the improvement he offers over Carlson, if any at all, is minimal. So it was not some egregious error to stick with Carlson.
Those who complain why went with Carlson at all, I just keep having to ask, "Who would you have gone with?"
It's easy to say Carlson is not good enough, but it is kind of a meaningless criticism is you cannot point to an opportunity we had to get a guy who would have been better.
right because we have just as much insider info as these GM's
It's not up to us to know who is available, who we could possibly pick off someones PS
and what is minimal improvement? 1 EP, 1 FG to tie or win a game isn't the same as a miss during the season or when the outcome isn't in doubt, I just can't relate to that as minimal, we should have brought someone in, and again it's not up to us to know who that should be, where not making 5 mil. to manage this team
hopefully Carlson has a 2nd year leap, gets consistent, like his brother.
I know you recently made this argument for your WR pet topic so you are gonna play this card a lot now, but in this case, although we cannot "know" it is very safe to infer, because good kickers are even harder to find now than QBs—no good kicker is "available" because then the team has them (which is only about 16 teams) that gives them away will not have one. Duh. Unless you do something ridiculous like offer a 1st round pick or a quality starter, which would just be stupid.
Also, practice squads are public knowledge.
I make that argument because it's the truth, every season we see GM's sign players, you, me, and hardly any one ever heard of, that doesn't mean the player is a noted improvement, we see our own players leave here and succeed elsewhere, as well as come here and do well after never really doing well prior, so for you to spout this jargon you can be sure falls on deaf ears.
what is the cost of winning? I ask because you seem to have a price tag on it, I never have, and never will, I laugh when someone says one player wont make a difference, I do so because that is proven false in every game, production is the only real measuring stick I pay attention to.
Carlson was not producing, competition pushes others to improve, almost any street kicker could have produced a better Carlson.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 12:31
by Labrev
Yoop wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024 12:16
Labrev wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 17:39
Yoop wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 16:46
right because we have just as much insider info as these GM's
It's not up to us to know who is available, who we could possibly pick off someones PS
and what is minimal improvement? 1 EP, 1 FG to tie or win a game isn't the same as a miss during the season or when the outcome isn't in doubt, I just can't relate to that as minimal, we should have brought someone in, and again it's not up to us to know who that should be, where not making 5 mil. to manage this team
hopefully Carlson has a 2nd year leap, gets consistent, like his brother.
I know you recently made this argument for your WR pet topic so you are gonna play this card a lot now, but in this case, although we cannot "know" it is very safe to infer, because good kickers are even harder to find now than QBs—no good kicker is "available" because then the team has them (which is only about 16 teams) that gives them away will not have one. Duh. Unless you do something ridiculous like offer a 1st round pick or a quality starter, which would just be stupid.
Also, practice squads are public knowledge.
I make that argument because it's the truth, every season we see GM's sign players, you, me, and hardly any one ever heard of, that doesn't mean the player is a noted improvement, we see our own players leave here and succeed elsewhere, as well as come here and do well after never really doing well prior, so for you to spout this jargon you can be sure falls on deaf ears.
what is the cost of winning? I ask because you seem to have a price tag on it, I never have, and never will, I laugh when someone says one player wont make a difference, I do so because that is proven false in every game, production is the only real measuring stick I pay attention to.
Carlson was not producing, competition pushes others to improve, almost any street kicker could have produced a better Carlson.
We haven't heard of them because we have better things to do with our time than research it, not because only GMs are privy to the info. It's all public knowledge. Every PS is out in the open. Everyone who ever played college football and is not on a team can be called up. So no, who is a FA can be called up is not some insider information.
So that just leaves trade targets. As to that, no one is going to trade away their kicker. **They need** their kicker. If they get rid of them, then they won't have one. DUH!!
So no, we know with near-100% certainly what was available at K. You can say "we don't know what's available" at any other position, but not K. Anyone who can rub two braincells together can figure this one out.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 12:37
by Drj820
Some of you are hilarious with your excuses. Anders missed what…a kick in like 7+ games?
There is 1000% more than 32 people in the world who would not miss a kick in 7+ straight games. Any team that wants to find one just needs to bring some competition in and test them out…something we never even attempted to do.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 12:51
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024 12:37
Some of you are hilarious with your excuses. Anders missed what…a kick in like 7+ games?
There is 1000% more than 32 people in the world who would not miss a kick in 7+ straight games. Any team that wants to find one just needs to bring some competition in and test them out…something we never even attempted to do.
It's useless, when someone thinks they could do the job of a GM if they only had the time, or know of players that could be brought in if they had the time a GM does
He thinks he's defending our GM I suppose, actually he's insulting him, he's saying that 1. no one was available, and 2. that he knows as much as our GM concerning that a player might be.
GM's have vast sources of info providers, far more accurate providers then any news source is privy to, and our GM has been doing this stuff as long as most in the business, and for what ever reason decided not to bring any in even when Carlson was beyond inconsistent, almost any college kicker that went undrafted could have pushed Carlson for the kicking job.
homers got ta home
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 15:01
by Labrev
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024 12:37
Some of you are hilarious with your excuses. Anders missed what…a kick in like 7+ games?
It's not a blighted "excuse" I literally said I was in favor of bringing in Crosby for situational use and, before the season, wanted us to sign Randy Bullock before the season and PS Carlson.
Lol and yoop would have been so mystified if we signed Bullock, because when a GM signs someone he doesn't know, he thinks it's because FOs are esoteric cabals that conjure up players from the ether by reciting incantations from ancient tomes of forbidden knowledge
There is 1000% more than 32 people in the world who would not miss a kick in 7+ straight games. Any team that wants to find one just needs to bring some competition in and test them out…something we never even attempted to do.
Then why aren't they on rosters to replace all these other low-80% kickers like Carlson?
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 16:14
by lupedafiasco
Finding a kicker is significantly harder than what is being made out on here. There aren’t even 32 good kickers in the league and on top of that new ones are always coming in and old ones are getting forced out.
The stronger indictment on STs is Gutenbumst inability to get a LS in here. Every year since moving on from Goode we have have been churning out bad LS after bad LS to include drafting one in Hunter Bradley and the inexcusable trash LS we had in 2021.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 16:40
by BF004
That is probably most frustrating to me. It just simply isn’t good. Missed kick is understandable, your one job to snap it 7 yards and it not being perfect is not.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 17:06
by Drj820
Labrev wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024 15:01
Drj820 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024 12:37
Some of you are hilarious with your excuses. Anders missed what…a kick in like 7+ games?
It's not a blighted "excuse" I literally said I was in favor of bringing in Crosby for situational use and, before the season, wanted us to sign Randy Bullock before the season and PS Carlson.
Lol and yoop would have been so mystified if we signed Bullock, because when a GM signs someone he doesn't know, he thinks it's because FOs are esoteric cabals that conjure up players from the ether by reciting incantations from ancient tomes of forbidden knowledge
There is 1000% more than 32 people in the world who would not miss a kick in 7+ straight games. Any team that wants to find one just needs to bring some competition in and test them out…something we never even attempted to do.
Then why aren't they on rosters to replace all these other low-80% kickers like Carlson?
I’m on your side in this
But to answer your last question, it’s pride. Gutey drafted Anders, he was going to get a year competition free no matter what
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 17:45
by lupedafiasco
BF004 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024 16:40
That is probably most frustrating to me. It just simply isn’t good. Missed kick is understandable, your one job to snap it 7 yards and it not being perfect is not.
To me if that’s your only in you should be doing it even just 5 hours a day and it should be perfection.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 18:35
by MY_TAKE
No GM makes all the right decisions.
I love to scrutinize as much as the next fan and GMs need to be held accountable. There seems to be alot more good than bad in the job Gute has done. That Packers appear to have a top 8 roster with a top 8 head coach and they are all very young and getting better. Pretty hard to argue against that. Also a they have atop 8 QB already with only 1 year under his belt and he seemed to improve weekly.
T'he Packer are contenders right now. With a little luck and fortune, maybe they will play in the big game next year. As a fan thats all I can ask for is to have a realistic shot and I think we do.
Good Job Gute
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 19:05
by RingoCStarrQB
Drj820 wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 08:14
RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑15 Feb 2024 18:55
Regardless of the Packers place kicking challenges, beating Dallas on the road and getting to the NFC Championship Game versus the San Francisco 49ers with the youngest team in the league was an awesome feat all by itself.............. again "regardless". So quit all of this bellyaching.
would have been awesome to make it to the NFC Championship game, totally agree
I misspoke. What I should have said was "the playoff game vs the Niners was arguably the NFCCG one week early". Packers previously beat 4 playoff teams, including the Lions who lost to the Niners the following week in the actual NFCCG.
Re: Super Bowl LVIII
Posted: 17 Feb 2024 22:46
by go pak go
APB wrote: ↑16 Feb 2024 15:27
It's somewhat fascinating to me how there is this belief that Crosby would have undoubtedly been an upgrade for a playoff run.
Crosby struggled with two teams this past year, hitting 5/7 FGs and 6/7 XPs. Only 2 of his 16 KO went for touchbacks. Carlson had better season % stats in every category. Crosby was every bit as bad (or worse) as Carlson and would have been a sure 35 yd line starting spot (or better) for opposing offenses with his feeble kickoffs.
Anders wasn't good, sure, but Crosby wasn't the answer either. The Ghost of Crosby's Past still haunts this forum.
You wouldn't replace Anders with Crosby.
You would supplement Crosby on the roster to kick 45 and less because Anders was telling you he was bad at it the past 6 weeks. You let Anders take the long kicks.
The challenge with the Crosby talk wasn't the 53 man roster..it was the 46 game day roster. It would have been really hard finding who to sit to bring Crosby on board for the PATs.
Ultimately I would have made the same decision Gute did. But definitely considered and found valid arguments to try and find a way to have two kickers on the game day roster.