Whose Side Are You On?

[Yoop]

or that Love was BPA at slot 26, specially as it pertained to our other positional needs

There is no pertinency to positional needs when discussing BPA. BPA is BPA. You think I'm nuts because I believe Gutey liked Love enough to draft him despite the &%$@ storm he knew was coming and yet you believe he reached for a QB just to !@#$ off his HOF signal caller. Like, think it through... Why?

BPA becomes best player available in regards to positional needs, and that how teams are forced to draft these days, and there where other positions taken after we took Love that have produced more, QB's fall into another catagory because they often ar not expected to perform right away, and that to me is the only way Guty can say Love was BPA.

I also didn't say you where NUTS, don't read into stuff I didn't say so you can act pissed off at me, I said your being gullible to believe everything the FO says.

I think Guty feels insulted that Rodgers would question anything he does, so ya, if ya read any of the cronoligy of events that led to this situations, I think Guty reached for a QB, and by passed any of those receivers to send a message to Rodgers, of course I do, I've never wavered from this position 10 pages ago, Guty made a point to tell his QB by his actions that I run this team, and what you did prior with Ted or McCarthy isn't going to happen any more, you have to remember, it was Rodgers complaints that forced the firing of both Ted and Mike, or are you oblivious to all of that?

[NCF]

you have to remember, it was Rodgers complaints that forced the firing of both Ted and Mike, or are you oblivious to all of that?

Very oblivious, apparently. Rodgers did NOT get Ted fired. Ted wasn't even fired!! I hate to agree with [mention]lupedafiasco[/mention] on this one, but Ted sitting in his press box on Christmas Eve and on national television looking like he just escaped from the locked dementia unit at the local nursing home is what created the need for replacement. I think his health issues came on fast and I doubt he put up much fight about agreeing it was time. I also don't think Rodgers got McCarthy fired, but there is probably much more of a direct correlation there. I think Murphy probably made up his mind about firing McCarthy at the same time Ted was replaced, but the timing was a little off. He needed a season like 2018 to pull the trigger and he didn't even wait until the end of it. Is Rodgers the biggest and most important voice in the locker room? Absolutely. Was he the only one that lost faith in McCarthy? I highly, highly doubt it. So to act like Rodgers single-handedly caused the end of the McCarthy era is a bit too far for me.

[salmar80]

Your first conspiracy theory was more plausible then saying the Packers didnt plan to draft Love if he was available. They moved up to get him because they wanted him. They werent willing to get up in the top ten to make sure they got him, but once he was still around...they executed their plan to get him.

Not every plan is the same.

There's a huge difference between having a pre-draft plan to replace your QB and doing everything you can to execute that plan (= 49ers and to lesser extent Bears in 2021 draft), and executing a minor trade up to pick a falling QB because he's the premium position BPA and your preferred prospects went early.

The previous is a plan to replace your QB. The latter is a reaction to how the board fell. It's picking a project that may replace your QB if that QB declines or gets injured. I guess you can call it a plan, if you count building a draft board and sticking to it "a plan".

Also, in the latter case, that pick may end up just serving as a backup or be eventual trade bait, which would be sub-optimal but bearable, since it's only a late 1st rounder, not an all-in move that costs you multiple 1st rounders or more.

How low would a QB pick had to have been for you not to see it as a succession plan to AR? Original pick at 30, so no trade up? 33rd, so it would "just" be a 2nd? 62nd? 3rd round? Any QB brought in is an insult to AR?

Also, would like this answered: As long as AR plays on a super high level he won't be replaced. And if he doesn't, if he hits the wall or gets into an injury spiral, would you like to have him on a fully guaranteed deal and to have no options?

To answer your question about how low a QB would need to be, I would say it would need to be a QB we did not move up to get and the qb would need to be drafted at a spot where there werent other obvious needs on the roster that needed to be filled. For instance, there were WRs available (Higgins, Pittman Jr) and ILBs (my favorite Queen). Yet in the first three rounds we drafted replacements for starters on our current roster. Love for Rodgers in 2 years at the time, Dillon for Jones who we did not expect to be able to get to stay so cheaply, and Deguara for Tonyan who we didnt expect to pop or for Bust Sternberger.

The first three picks in the drafts were future replacements for current positions that were filled. None of them helped the 2021 Packers. That didnt make Rodgers happy. Its silly to pretend that the Packers drafted Love with the intention for him to be a 4 year backup while Rodgers played out his full deal. They showed they didnt plan to honor his deal and they put his time in GB "on the clock". They did this because they "Loved" Love and felt like they could win with him after some time and didnt need to deal with Rodgers drama anymore. Very arrogant decision. We will soon see if their arrogance was well placed.

Sorry, but your simplistic "1 player per 1 starting position is all you need" -thinking isn't shared by the front office nor by me.

Dillon wasn't drafted to replace Jones. Otherwise, well, he would've replaced him. If you don't see the value in having two different kinds of high quality backs, well, it's about Jones' new contract's worth. Deguara wasn't drafted to replace Tonyan or Sterny. He's a different body type, an H-back who is more of a receiving FB than a TE that is sometimes flexed to FB. Same with Gary, who seems redundant, but without whom there would be no roaming Z.

Are those ideal, maximum year 1 value picks? No. And you'll rarely see those, because a) teams don't think like draftniks who have to make things simple for the casual fans = "draft is all about filling 1-year needs", and b) there are 31 other teams with boards and plans of their own, so trades to match value with need aren't automatic.

If we only addressed QB when there are absolutely zero short- or long-term needs at other positions, we'd never address it.

The Packers drafted Rodgers without knowing if he'd ever play for us. There was no 2-year plan or 3-year plan. It all depended on what Favre did. There was a decent chance AR never played a snap for us considering Favre's streak. Why the heck would it be different in Love's case, who, btw, was drafted even lower even with the trade up?

Both AR and Love were drafted because a) there was a rare chance of getting a QB with talent late in 1st, and b) the starter is getting up in age. There's no need for a simplistic succession PLAN in any of this. There IS room for adding options for the organization in case something happens with the starter.

I do think Gutey is tied to the decision, and that he should've known AR would throw a hissy fit (and given him a courtesy heads up call). As with TT, if his QB pick turns out great, fantastic. If his QB pick sinks the franchise, he's outta here.

[Yoop]

agreed, as I said, this thread divides the forum, cause there is no place for compromise, it's either you side with everything either side does or says, or your against everything they say or do.

This is so foolish and does seem to be the stand you take on everything.

And I don't know if I'm compromising, but I'm thinking things through. Like saying the Packer's clearly blamed Rodgers for the struggles in 2017 and 2018. Like there is just no possible shred of evidence that is the case. Every, literally every, piece of evidence points to the contrary.

I dont think that so much as I think he was pissed with Rodgers for forcing his hand with MCarthy and wanting input with team decisions, Guty taking Love was Guty saying he was in charge and I don't need to listen to a word you say.

[Yoop]

you have to remember, it was Rodgers complaints that forced the firing of both Ted and Mike, or are you oblivious to all of that?

Very oblivious, apparently. Rodgers did NOT get Ted fired. Ted wasn't even fired!! I hate to agree with @lupedafiasco on this one, but Ted sitting in his press box on Christmas Eve and on national television looking like he just escaped from the locked dementia unit at the local nursing home is what created the need for replacement. I think his health issues came on fast and I doubt he put up much fight about agreeing it was time. I also don't think Rodgers got McCarthy fired, but there is probably much more of a direct correlation there. I think Murphy probably made up his mind about firing McCarthy at the same time Ted was replaced, but the timing was a little off. He needed a season like 2018 to pull the trigger and he didn't even wait until the end of it. Is Rodgers the biggest and most important voice in the locker room? Absolutely. Was he the only one that lost faith in McCarthy? I highly, highly doubt it. So to act like Rodgers single-handedly caused the end of the McCarthy era is a bit too far for me.

well Ted had needed to step down for more then a year, so many position where completely neglected for at least 3 years running, and McCarthy should been fired about 3 years prior as well, Sitton said it best 3 years prior when he was let go with comments that we are so vanilla on offense every DC in the leaqgue knows how to defend up, and how many reports do you need to read concerning everything on offense for us WAS SO HARD to accomplish, about the only people in the league that thought we where doing alright was our fans, well some of em anyway, I had been asking for changes just as long as Sitton, maybe you where tooo, but now are back sliding in this conversation with me

so when I say our team was poorly managed its no big secret, and if it was so obvious to some of us Rodgers obviously new it long before any of us, and he openly said so in media pressers.

now I'll finish with this because believe it or not I do have a life to live, things to do, I can't talk about this all day, I think Guty does have a resentment with Roders dating back to 2018, I do think it became a power struggle when Rodgers FORCED Guty to take action with McCarthy, and I think it carried over to the first year with Lafluer and Rodgers reluctance to openly accept his new coach sight unseen and without even a conference call from Guty about his choice prior, whether they blamed Rodgers for the time it took for Matts schemes to gell or be fully accepted by Rodgers I don't think is pertenate, I think Guty and the3 scouts did prep pre on upcoming QB's in the draft, decided who he would take if they dropped towards move up range and he took Love when he did, I have my doubts (realistic or not) that taking a WR much much more then just a consideration and only if one dropped to where3 we took love or even later, he planned to send his revenge for Rodgers 2018 antics in some way, why people only think Rodgers holds a grudge and Guty does not is whats goffy here.

[NCF]

now I'll finish with this because believe it or not I do have a life to live, things to do, I can't talk about this all day, I think Guty does have a resentment with Roders dating back to 2018, I do think it became a power struggle when Rodgers FORCED Guty to take action with McCarthy, and I think it carried over to the first year with Lafluer and Rodgers reluctance to openly accept his new coach sight unseen and without even a conference call from Guty about his choice prior, whether they blamed Rodgers for the time it took for Matts schemes to gell or be fully accepted by Rodgers I don't think is pertenate, I think Guty and the3 scouts did prep pre on upcoming QB's in the draft, decided who he would take if they dropped towards move up range and he took Love when he did, I have my doubts (realistic or not) that taking a WR much much more then just a consideration and only if one dropped to where3 we took love or even later, he planned to send his revenge for Rodgers 2018 antics in some way, why people only think Rodgers holds a grudge and Guty does not is whats goffy here.

Again, critical facts are being missed unless you are just misspeaking. Gutey had nothing to do with McCarthy getting fired. That was 100% Murphy's decision. New power structure. Remember all that? Murphy fired McCarthy. Murphy hired LaFleur. Gutey did neither.

So, back to the BIG revenge tour. Why isn't Murphy the target? As for The 2020 Draft, I guess you can doubt all you want. Words from his mouth suggested he wanted a WR. You think he is lying. Nothing more to discuss there, then.

[Drj820]

Not every plan is the same.

There's a huge difference between having a pre-draft plan to replace your QB and doing everything you can to execute that plan (= 49ers and to lesser extent Bears in 2021 draft), and executing a minor trade up to pick a falling QB because he's the premium position BPA and your preferred prospects went early.

The previous is a plan to replace your QB. The latter is a reaction to how the board fell. It's picking a project that may replace your QB if that QB declines or gets injured. I guess you can call it a plan, if you count building a draft board and sticking to it "a plan".

Also, in the latter case, that pick may end up just serving as a backup or be eventual trade bait, which would be sub-optimal but bearable, since it's only a late 1st rounder, not an all-in move that costs you multiple 1st rounders or more.

How low would a QB pick had to have been for you not to see it as a succession plan to AR? Original pick at 30, so no trade up? 33rd, so it would "just" be a 2nd? 62nd? 3rd round? Any QB brought in is an insult to AR?

Also, would like this answered: As long as AR plays on a super high level he won't be replaced. And if he doesn't, if he hits the wall or gets into an injury spiral, would you like to have him on a fully guaranteed deal and to have no options?

To answer your question about how low a QB would need to be, I would say it would need to be a QB we did not move up to get and the qb would need to be drafted at a spot where there werent other obvious needs on the roster that needed to be filled. For instance, there were WRs available (Higgins, Pittman Jr) and ILBs (my favorite Queen). Yet in the first three rounds we drafted replacements for starters on our current roster. Love for Rodgers in 2 years at the time, Dillon for Jones who we did not expect to be able to get to stay so cheaply, and Deguara for Tonyan who we didnt expect to pop or for Bust Sternberger.

The first three picks in the drafts were future replacements for current positions that were filled. None of them helped the 2021 Packers. That didnt make Rodgers happy. Its silly to pretend that the Packers drafted Love with the intention for him to be a 4 year backup while Rodgers played out his full deal. They showed they didnt plan to honor his deal and they put his time in GB "on the clock". They did this because they "Loved" Love and felt like they could win with him after some time and didnt need to deal with Rodgers drama anymore. Very arrogant decision. We will soon see if their arrogance was well placed.

Sorry, but your simplistic "1 player per 1 starting position is all you need" -thinking isn't shared by the front office nor by me.

Dillon wasn't drafted to replace Jones. Otherwise, well, he would've replaced him. If you don't see the value in having two different kinds of high quality backs, well, it's about Jones' new contract's worth. Deguara wasn't drafted to replace Tonyan or Sterny. He's a different body type, an H-back who is more of a receiving FB than a TE that is sometimes flexed to FB. Same with Gary, who seems redundant, but without whom there would be no roaming Z.

Are those ideal, maximum year 1 value picks? No. And you'll rarely see those, because a) teams don't think like draftniks who have to make things simple for the casual fans = "draft is all about filling 1-year needs", and b) there are 31 other teams with boards and plans of their own, so trades to match value with need aren't automatic.

If we only addressed QB when there are absolutely zero short- or long-term needs at other positions, we'd never address it.

The Packers drafted Rodgers without knowing if he'd ever play for us. There was no 2-year plan or 3-year plan. It all depended on what Favre did. There was a decent chance AR never played a snap for us considering Favre's streak. Why the heck would it be different in Love's case, who, btw, was drafted even lower even with the trade up?

Both AR and Love were drafted because a) there was a rare chance of getting a QB with talent late in 1st, and b) the starter is getting up in age. There's no need for a simplistic succession PLAN in any of this. There IS room for adding options for the organization in case something happens with the starter.

I do think Gutey is tied to the decision, and that he should've known AR would throw a hissy fit (and given him a courtesy heads up call). As with TT, if his QB pick turns out great, fantastic. If his QB pick sinks the franchise, he's outta here.

Oh I guess I just disagree with ya. I dont think you draft a QB in the first round for him to never see the field. First rounders are far too valuable to throw away like that. I also disagree that the Packers drafted Rodgers without knowing if he would play for us. I think they drafted him to eventually play right on schedule for when he did takeover. I think that was the plan for him.

Now, sometimes that original plan doesnt come to fruition. Like I believe the plan did not come to fruition for Aj Dillon replacing Jones. I think drafting a runningback in the second round is a lot of capital to put in a rb anyways, its an insane amount of capital to put into a rb that you plan on being a backup.

Rodgers could have done what Aaron Jones did and Brett Favre failed to do..which is play so good that the original plan never comes to fruition...but i believe Love was drafted to play after 2 or 3 seasons, and Dillon was drafted to replace Aaron Jones. Otherwise you wouldnt draft him so high. I dont believe the team believed the market would allow them to keep Jones, so they snagged Dillon. I dont believe they planned on letting Rodgers play out his full deal, so they grabbed Love in the first round.

[Yoop]

now I'll finish with this because believe it or not I do have a life to live, things to do, I can't talk about this all day, I think Guty does have a resentment with Roders dating back to 2018, I do think it became a power struggle when Rodgers FORCED Guty to take action with McCarthy, and I think it carried over to the first year with Lafluer and Rodgers reluctance to openly accept his new coach sight unseen and without even a conference call from Guty about his choice prior, whether they blamed Rodgers for the time it took for Matts schemes to gell or be fully accepted by Rodgers I don't think is pertenate, I think Guty and the3 scouts did prep pre on upcoming QB's in the draft, decided who he would take if they dropped towards move up range and he took Love when he did, I have my doubts (realistic or not) that taking a WR much much more then just a consideration and only if one dropped to where3 we took love or even later, he planned to send his revenge for Rodgers 2018 antics in some way, why people only think Rodgers holds a grudge and Guty does not is whats goffy here.

Again, critical facts are being missed unless you are just misspeaking. Gutey had nothing to do with McCarthy getting fired. That was 100% Murphy's decision. New power structure. Remember all that? Murphy fired McCarthy. Murphy hired LaFleur. Gutey did neither.

So, back to the BIG revenge tour. Why isn't Murphy the target? As for The 2020 Draft, I guess you can doubt all you want. Words from his mouth suggested he wanted a WR. You think he is lying. Nothing more to discuss there, then.

Guty was the GM in 018, just because Murphy did the deed in no way means that Guty was not involved with the situation to do so, and still could hold a grudge because Rodgers hadn't been on board to keep Mike on board for the 018 season at all, and quit using Mikes called plays early into the season, eventually it got so bad McCarthy had to be fired, why you'd think that didn't tick off both Gute as well as Murph doesn't make sense, I think both where fuming, in eithers shoes I would be.

when ya look closer into accending events from pre 018 up till the drafting of Love ya could cut the tension between Rodgers and the FO with a knife, but Rodgers being respectful of the FO through out all the years mostly just bit his tongue, finally he couldn't continue doing so as his own window of oppertunity was closing with the draft of Love, so he reacted.

I know some will never agree, you for instance, but that is how it looks from the cheap seats, and why you or anyone here would expect me to change my mind with so little evidence to get me to do so is crazy, I mean I'd like to, heck look how much easier it would be for me to get along, I've gotten 4 letters of reprimend from you mods because of my stance and repeating my position in convo's over 11 pages now it would be so much easier just to bow to all the pressure

when Ariens told Brady to adjust some of the schemes to his liking (or words to that affect) I thought, and completely believe that is how Rodgers should be treated.

I several times have mentioned that Rodgers is a player coach, I guess some of you must have thought I was nuts, but almost nothing I've ever said was closer to spot on true, Rodgers new McCarthy's offense as well as he did, and I'd bet if ya asked Lafluer he'd tell ya the same is true with his offense, yet Guty wants to treat him like a unwanted step child, but then thats how he has treated other players, we have first hand accounts of his arrogance, and that is my impression listening to his pressers, and that stuff leaves a bad impression with players, and it is probably why we have this situation.

[packman114]

Here's the things that don't make sense to me:

Rodgers says the culture is bad and needs to change...but all season long on Pat McAfee show he talked about how this was his favorite year ever because he was having so much fun and was in a better place on his life.

If the culture is bad and the FO doesn't treat people right...why are other players so happy here and resigning like Bak, Jones, Z, and Lewis?

If he cares so much about the fans why is he letting Miles Teller play them with stupid tweets from Hawaii? Or why doesn't he just say to the fans, "Don't believe everything you read, this is contract negotiations and it will get resolved one way or another." That's not committing to coming back but at least it's putting a better spin on things.

This is all about players taking control of the teams. Brady got it in Tampa, Wilson got it in Seattle and now Aaron is trying to get it here. NBA here we come! All as the new CBA negotiations get serious.

I personally don't like it but I've never been a pro athlete, so what do I know.

[German_Panzer]

The latest comment of Murphy ("Aaron is a complicated fella") basically declares war on #12. It shows cockyness and an attitude right into Aaron's face: "You are old, we have enough of your antics, we do not need your necessarily". No way such line would have come over Murphy's lips 10 years ago in a similiar standoff. The dude would have bj'ed Rodgers to make him feel wanted and comfortable. This will tell Rodgers that he won't get the trust and respect he's looking for. If I am Aaron then this made the train leave the station, point of no return.

It's also stupid because Murphy deliberately weakens the trade value of Rodgers with comments like the one above. You want to make your opponent think of as many suitors as possible, so that he's motivated to bring some dough to the table. Now they know already that one is done: GB. The only explanation is that everyone already knows it's deadwood and over. That fits with all these rumors that Rodgers already told players he won't come back.

[Pckfn23]

It wasn't from Murphy and it was not recent, unless of course Ted Thompson is a sentient zombie...

So much for manufactured outrage.

[Yoop]

Packers President Mark Murphy: Aaron Rodgers is a 'Complicated Fella'
Another shot across the bow?

ast week, Green Bay Packers president Mark Murphy wrote on the team website that the club's current rift with MVP quarterback Aaron Rodgers has "divided" the fan base. Murphy went on to write that the less both sides say publicly, the better, despite his quip coming in a mailbag in response to a fan question the executive was under no obligation to answer.

Fast forward to present times, and Murphy has once again stepped in it. During an event at Lambeau Field, Murphy fired yet another shot across Rodgers' bow in a very public forum.

"I'm often reminded though... of Ted Thompson, as most of you know, just a great general manager, passed away (earlier this year)," Murphy said on Thursday via NBC26. "(Thompson) often talked about Aaron, that he's a... and it wasn't just Aaron, a lot of different players. He would say 'He's a complicated fella.'"

the point is he didn't even have to make that comment, what possible good could come from Murphy making a comment like that, sounds to me as though he's creating a excuse not only to shade good light on himself and the FO, while pointing blame at Rodgers.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/pac ... ated-fella

[salmar80]

Per NBC 26:

Murphy was addressing conversations he used to have with the late Ted Thompson, who was the Packers general manager from 2005 to 2017.

"I'm often reminded though... of Ted Thompson, as most of you know, just a great general manager, passed away (earlier this year)," Murphy said. "(Thompson) often talked about Aaron, that he's a... and it wasn't just Aaron, a lot of different players. He would say 'He's a complicated fella.'"

"So, I'll just say that," Murphy said.

Murphy should be saying absolutely nothing about the situation or Aaron until the situation is resolved. He has to know that ANYTHING he utters will be taken to pieces, and if at all possible, scandalized to the max. Now, there are way worse things one could say, it could even be an inside joke Aaron is in on, and I don't think Murphy meant anything bad. But even tho this isn't egregious, it's still a bad idea to make any public comments.

Bad Mark

[Drj820]

Maybe Mark doesn’t want the issue resolved. He wants to be the only chef in the kitchen at Lambeau.

[Labrev]

I don't know how to vote on the poll...

Dispute itself: Rodgers (based on the limited information I have).

Future of franchise: Front Office, though hitching our wagon to Rodgers for the long haul would not make me unhappy or anything.

[Drj820]

Gutey doesn’t even get the credit for hiring Lafleur. Everytime i hear credit given, Murphy gets the shine. Gutey didn’t select Love without some urging from his boss. Murphy wants an army of yes men, Rodgers doesn’t fit the Bill...he must be removed in order for Murphy to complete his takeover and eliminate all oppositions that deflect credit away from Murphy.

[salmar80]

Gutey doesn’t even get the credit for hiring Lafleur. Everytime i hear credit given, Murphy gets the shine. Gutey didn’t select Love without some urging from his boss. Murphy wants an army of yes men, Rodgers doesn’t fit the Bill...he must be removed in order for Murphy to complete his takeover and eliminate all oppositions that deflect credit away from Murphy.

Damn!

I thought Murphy was:



But he actually is:



I mean, I'm pretty sure that if AR bolts and Love sucks and the team's fortunes fall accordingly, I'm sure Murphy gets the credit he deserves for that... Dunno how getting fired fits with his evil masterplan, but then I'm no mastermind.

[lake shark]

Murphy is a secret bears operative.

[Drj820]

Murphy is a secret bears operative.

He does have loyalties to Northwestern University, which happens to be in Illinois. Which happens to be the same state as the Bears play in. So theory checks out.

[Yoop]

welcome folks to conspiracy U, we dabble in out right lies, half truths, and innuendo, the truth, is never the real truth, in fact our convolutions are more accurate then even a tape or video, people that give those speeches and do those pressers are actors and paid to say those things

who really knows what message Murphy is trying to send, I doubt he even knows, I think everyone at 1265 would just like Rodgers to return, and talking or saying what Mark said probably isn't going to help that happen, If I where them I'd refuse to answer any question concerning Rodgers, the media mongrels be damned.