Rodgers can have the excuses of being too old and not wanting to the team chemistry stuff. That is fine.
But it just proves even more why I wanted to move on and the result we are seeing shows the importance of a QB being in synce with his young team. I'm sure Jordan Love will change at some point too. I was convinced Rodgers wouldn't...until he did. But until then I am enjoying the heck out of watching Jordan Love.
It's foolish to think as players age they'll have the same exuberance as they did 15 years prior when they started, we drafted 20 receivers during Rodgers tenure and brought in that many or more UDFA, thats 15 seasons of Rodgers breaking in new recruits.
He soured it seems the last few seasons of breaking in marginal talent, imho as most older QB's would, and which I also expect we'll see with Love in that time frame, it human nature.
Agreed. So maybe it's better to move on earlier rather than get to that stage that we saw in 2021 and especially into 2022.
2022 should have never happened. It made little sense at the time and it makes complete nonsense now. 2022 should have been Love's real first year.
thats just speculation, we don't know with any certainty that Love wouldn't have busted a year ago, the pass rush got to Rodgers just as it did with Love early this season in 2022.
with hind sight being 2020 I'd take you back to 2017, Rodgers was pretty upset then, in fact one could say he played butt hurt that season after we traded Nelson, what happened, Murphy redid his contract with a 100 million dollar raise, Ted was demoted, Capers was fired, and again Rodgers had Adams and a cast of rookies, another season of trying to make McCarthy's iso vert schemes work minus the talent for them to be successful, and Rodgers reverted to the malcontent QB we came to know, could say the time to trade Rodgers was when the 2017 season ended, I even mentioned that back then.
problem is we had no back up like Love at the time, and Rodgers was a franchise type player, and proved that again with Lafleur.
all Rodgers actually wanted was a receiving group that Love now has, I've said that a million times, yet I get so much flack over what seemed common knowledge.
Rodgers can have the excuses of being too old and not wanting to the team chemistry stuff. That is fine.
But it just proves even more why I wanted to move on and the result we are seeing shows the importance of a QB being in synce with his young team. I'm sure Jordan Love will change at some point too. I was convinced Rodgers wouldn't...until he did. But until then I am enjoying the heck out of watching Jordan Love.
Really don't disagree. I was annoyed with him not embracing the young talent and not working out with them and such. However, There are plenty of veterans in their sports that don't want to deal with rookies or young guys. It doesn't necessarily make them dicks. It might, but maybe not.
Lebron James is a good example of this.
Does kind of make you a less than stellar teammate though. Yeah, it's not easy to relate to people 15-20 years younger than you, but when you're getting paid that kind of money to be the franchise QB, you gotta learn how to do it.
I agree. I was pissed at him and thought he was being a little bitch actually.
It's foolish to think as players age they'll have the same exuberance as they did 15 years prior when they started, we drafted 20 receivers during Rodgers tenure and brought in that many or more UDFA, thats 15 seasons of Rodgers breaking in new recruits.
He soured it seems the last few seasons of breaking in marginal talent, imho as most older QB's would, and which I also expect we'll see with Love in that time frame, it human nature.
Agreed. So maybe it's better to move on earlier rather than get to that stage that we saw in 2021 and especially into 2022.
2022 should have never happened. It made little sense at the time and it makes complete nonsense now. 2022 should have been Love's real first year.
thats just speculation, we don't know with any certainty that Love wouldn't have busted a year ago, the pass rush got to Rodgers just as it did with Love early this season in 2022.
I would be shocked if Love played to any type of level in 2022 as he has in 2023. But that doesn't or wouldn't make him a bust.
Love played great in limited time in 2022. Love played fine enough the first 8 games with a very poor 3 game stretch in the middle (Las Vegas, Denver, and MN)
But I very much am confident to say Love would not have busted had he played in 2022. I think we would still be in that 7-10 to 9-8 record (though looking less impressive than 2023)
You may be opposed to the action but make no mistake about it, you were talking directly about Rodgers lets not get cute with language semantics.
Oh I was well aware at the time that my post is a shot at Rodgers. But no, it is not a shot at Rodgers for the sake of taking a shot at him.
It is a shot at a specific practice of his that I dislike and do not want to see again, in the same vein there were things Favre did that I disliked and did not want to see again (throwing up prayers that often came down as INTs), things that by the way I have condemned when other people do them.
Your statement is just an opinion nonetheless. There is no absolute proof one way is better than the other.
Every theory is "just an opinion" but some are much truer than others. I substantiated my opinion with some reasonably sound logic and evidence: we tried the chew-out route last year, little improvement from struggling players; we tried a very different tack this year, saw much more improvement from struggling players (a couple of the exact same players as from last year).
More to the point, it was argued last year that chew-outs MUST be done for "accountability" purposes. Yet improvement on offense occurred without chew-outs from their QB or other veteran teammates. So that idea has been debunked, pretty objectively.
do you even bother to look at seasonal game stats, or just spout anything you think you remember that u accuse me of?
after Rodgers chewed out the receivers, Doubs and Watson started to play better, ran better routes and caught the balls thrown there way, Rodgers, as well as the coaches got after the receivers, and it helped.
again just wait till Love has 10 or so years in, if the receivers need a shove you can be sure Love will provide it, openly if needed.
Rodger has been fed up for years, and we all saw it, your not enlightening any one here, I would have been as well, and you would have been to, no substantial resources devoted to the WR position for 8 years would do that to any quality QB, specially a HOF one, you think Brady or Bree's, Aikman, Manning would stand still for that insanity? no way, and if people here weren't so homered up ya wouldn't either. geesus, this has to be the densest of any argument in this forum ever.
and I personally havn't like Rodgers for years, I can separate the player from the person, no problem with that.
Agreed. So maybe it's better to move on earlier rather than get to that stage that we saw in 2021 and especially into 2022.
2022 should have never happened. It made little sense at the time and it makes complete nonsense now. 2022 should have been Love's real first year.
thats just speculation, we don't know with any certainty that Love wouldn't have busted a year ago, the pass rush got to Rodgers just as it did with Love early this season in 2022.
I would be shocked if Love played to any type of level in 2022 as he has in 2023. But that doesn't or wouldn't make him a bust.
Love played great in limited time in 2022. Love played fine enough the first 8 games with a very poor 3 game stretch in the middle (Las Vegas, Denver, and MN)
But I very much am confident to say Love would not have busted had he played in 2022. I think we would still be in that 7-10 to 9-8 record (though looking less impressive than 2023)
we have no idea if Love would have over come the pass rush this season had Lafleur not devoted stopping free rushers and getting this line to protect better, plenty of QB's just like Love never did, in fact pass rush imho ends the career for most young QB's, your guessing
thats just speculation, we don't know with any certainty that Love wouldn't have busted a year ago, the pass rush got to Rodgers just as it did with Love early this season in 2022.
I would be shocked if Love played to any type of level in 2022 as he has in 2023. But that doesn't or wouldn't make him a bust.
Love played great in limited time in 2022. Love played fine enough the first 8 games with a very poor 3 game stretch in the middle (Las Vegas, Denver, and MN)
But I very much am confident to say Love would not have busted had he played in 2022. I think we would still be in that 7-10 to 9-8 record (though looking less impressive than 2023)
we have no idea if Love would have over come the pass rush this season had Lafleur not devoted stopping free rushers and getting this line to protect better, plenty of QB's just like Love never did, in fact pass rush imho ends the career for most young QB's, your guessing
I watched the game last Sunday. I watched the game in MN. I watched the game vs CHI. I saw plenty of free rushers and I also saw the ball end up in Wicks's and Doubs's hands in the EZ on the same play a free rusher was heading to Jordan.
Love would have been just fine.
The slew of posters here would have called him a bust for a bit longer but Love would still be in the same spot today. He's clearly got the processing and "learn from mistakes" mentality to overcome this stuff. No question about it.
This is not up for debate anymore. Chew-outs were defended as necessary to get poor play to improve. Yet we saw no improvement last season when this was done. I said then, clearly it is not working, so a different approach needs to be pursued.
And people were like, "well what else is there??" like it's some kind of rocket science.
Love just showed how it's done. What Love did was work behind the scenes to get them to improve. He worked out with them in the offseason, and in-season, he hosted film-session dinners to get everyone on the same page and build real camaraderie (much apart from the last guy who couldn't be bothered to work out with them in the offseason). This time, we DID we improvement.
Turns out, humiliating guys in public just destroys their confidence and leads to no improvement, while taking young guys under your wing and guiding them actual constructive criticism (not the deranged hissy fits that's disingenuously being called constructive) gets positive results.
Who would have thought?!?
Do I have to prove to once and for all what a good teammate is and how its done?
Re: Jordan Freaking Love
Posted: 19 Jan 2024 12:24
by packman114
All the "experts" continue to pick on Love for throwing off his back foot. Has anyone seen an interview with Clements that asks him about it? Is that something he teaches QBs in order to beat a free rusher?
None of these retired QBs think Love can have any consistency in the league if he continues to do that.
I would be shocked if Love played to any type of level in 2022 as he has in 2023. But that doesn't or wouldn't make him a bust.
Love played great in limited time in 2022. Love played fine enough the first 8 games with a very poor 3 game stretch in the middle (Las Vegas, Denver, and MN)
But I very much am confident to say Love would not have busted had he played in 2022. I think we would still be in that 7-10 to 9-8 record (though looking less impressive than 2023)
we have no idea if Love would have over come the pass rush this season had Lafleur not devoted stopping free rushers and getting this line to protect better, plenty of QB's just like Love never did, in fact pass rush imho ends the career for most young QB's, your guessing
I watched the game last Sunday. I watched the game in MN. I watched the game vs CHI. I saw plenty of free rushers and I also saw the ball end up in Wicks's and Doubs's hands in the EZ on the same play a free rusher was heading to Jordan.
Love would have been just fine.
The slew of posters here would have called him a bust for a bit longer but Love would still be in the same spot today. He's clearly got the processing and "learn from mistakes" mentality to overcome this stuff. No question about it.
ya never know, again maybe your right, however we kept Rodgers, hell we gave him a new contract because our GM and coaches weren't sure, your using hind sight you didn't have week 5, I'd bet most in his shoes back then fail.
we have no idea if Love would have over come the pass rush this season had Lafleur not devoted stopping free rushers and getting this line to protect better, plenty of QB's just like Love never did, in fact pass rush imho ends the career for most young QB's, your guessing
I watched the game last Sunday. I watched the game in MN. I watched the game vs CHI. I saw plenty of free rushers and I also saw the ball end up in Wicks's and Doubs's hands in the EZ on the same play a free rusher was heading to Jordan.
Love would have been just fine.
The slew of posters here would have called him a bust for a bit longer but Love would still be in the same spot today. He's clearly got the processing and "learn from mistakes" mentality to overcome this stuff. No question about it.
ya never know, again maybe your right, however we kept Rodgers, hell we gave him a new contract because our GM and coaches weren't sure, your using hind sight you didn't have week 5, I'd bet most in his shoes back then fail.
Yup. My largest gripe with BG and MLF is their offseason of spring 2022. They were stupid and played it stupid.
All the "experts" continue to pick on Love for throwing off his back foot. Has anyone seen an interview with Clements that asks him about it? Is that something he teaches QBs in order to beat a free rusher?
None of these retired QBs think Love can have any consistency in the league if he continues to do that.
My opinion is, its not ideal and will probably come back to burn him at some point, hopefully not anytime in the next 3 games Just thinking off the top of my head, his worse plays have been them kind of throws off the back foot. Recently he has had some nice plays doing that because he has thrown them with some juice or the player was so wide open it didnt matter.
All the "experts" continue to pick on Love for throwing off his back foot. Has anyone seen an interview with Clements that asks him about it? Is that something he teaches QBs in order to beat a free rusher?
None of these retired QBs think Love can have any consistency in the league if he continues to do that.
My opinion is, its not ideal and will probably come back to burn him at some point, hopefully not anytime in the next 3 games Just thinking off the top of my head, his worse plays have been them kind of throws off the back foot. Recently he has had some nice plays doing that because he has thrown them with some juice or the player was so wide open it didnt matter.
When Jordan Love overthrows his players...he then gets nervous he will keep doing it and converts to "touch pass Jordan"
That is when you get nervous. He overthrew players in the first quarter in New York and then sucked the rest of the game.
do you even bother to look at seasonal game stats, or just spout anything you think you remember that u accuse me of?
after Rodgers chewed out the receivers, Doubs and Watson started to play better, ran better routes and caught the balls thrown there way, Rodgers, as well as the coaches got after the receivers, and it helped.
I would dispute that. Watson was shelved after his MIN screw-up, publicly called out, continued to struggle after call-out until he finally had a breakout game against Dallas. Doubs was up and down through the year, had a nice game in Week 3 or 4 against Tampa, then struggled, then midseason improved, then tapered off again. Neither of them show any clear relationship between getting yelled at and improving.
But, even if it were true that they improved after getting yelled at... this year, we had struggling skill players on offense improve their game without *ANY* amount of that treatment.
So it is NOT categorically necessary to treat struggling players that way for them to improve. That part has been proven unimpeachably.
Re: Jordan Freaking Love
Posted: 19 Jan 2024 12:57
by Labrev
And since we are all having fun wasting our time with this, here are the tangential arguments (from the main argument, which itself is tangential from the OP!! ). Smaller text so people don't whine about having to page through off-topic stuff....
again just wait till Love has 10 or so years in, if the receivers need a shove you can be sure Love will provide it, openly if needed.
I don't CARE if he does it. I care what empirical evidence says should be done. That's the difference between us.
If chew-outs worked, I would be all for it. Wild stuff, basing actions off of what gets results, I know...
you think Brady or Bree's, Aikman, Manning would stand still for that insanity?
As a matter of fact, yes, Brady put up with the age gap between him and younger players, and struggles from WRs, in very different ways than Rodgers did, and was successful.
Brees, LMAO!!! When the Saints drafted Michael Thomas, Brees (in his old age, mark you) made a point to work with him extensively in the offseason, which was vital to his productive rookie seasons. Rodgers? No offseason work with Watson/Doubs.
During NO's championship push, Thomas was his only elite receiving target, he and Kamara were their only O weapons, not unlike Rodgers "only" ( ) had Adams and Jones. You are claiming he would never "stand still for that insanity." Do we hear anything about Brees being "fed up" with his FO? The answer is no.
and if people here weren't so homered up ya wouldn't either. geesus, this has to be the densest of any argument in this forum ever.
You would know far more peace in life if you stopped clinging to absurdities and just went where the facts and evidence take you, but if you would rather die on the hill of nonsense, well... you chose that life.
and I personally havn't like Rodgers for years, I can separate the player from the person, no problem with that.
I actually like off-field Rodgers, so that's totally irrelevant. I can still see his shortcomings as a player though.
I don't CARE if he does it. I care what empirical evidence says should be done. That's the difference between us.
If chew-outs worked, I would be all for it. There is no evidence they do though and plenty of evidence that they do not. In fact, there is ample evidence for my opposite hypothesis. So I would prefer for him to go in that direction. If there is a third option that is better, I will want him to do that.
Wild stuff, basing action off of what works, I know...
of course chew outs work, when a player/or a worker is not performing to there capabilities, or screwing off ( which was the case when Rodgers bitched about the cell phone use, when Finley time and again ran the routes wrong) verbally chastising them helped and worked
you have zero hypothesis other then a bunch of Rooks responding to atti boys, which Rodgers was quick to hand out too.
I know I need a magnifying glass to read that small print, urrrrrrr
Re: Jordan Freaking Love
Posted: 19 Jan 2024 13:31
by Pckfn23
Re: Jordan Freaking Love
Posted: 19 Jan 2024 17:11
by TheSkeptic
In the offseason, Jordan Love, Jones, Doubs, Reed, Etling, Wicks and Watson all worked out together. Toure did not. Just saying...
). Smaller text so people don't whine about having to page through off-topic stuff....
) had Adams and Jones. You are claiming he would never "stand still for that insanity." Do we hear anything about Brees being "fed up" with his FO? The answer is no.