Packers Huddle

Here is the page where you can find all PFR Advanced defensive stats for 2021:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... vanced.htm

At the top, click Previous Season, if you want to go back to 2020 and before.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

02 Jan 2022 23:41

Rodgers and Adams have both said that 2 weeks off would mess up the zone they're in. Trust the men themselves. They want to play,. They don't want 2 weeks off. Pull them early, certainly. But you don't sit your starters giving them two weeks off when your leaders went public saying that it would disrupt the roll they're on.

NCF wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 15:01

wow thats huge news

NCF wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 15:02

That might explain Savage's problems

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 15:07

That might explain Savage's problems

Long COVID for the last 2 months without testing positive until today?

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 15:07

NCF wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 15:02

That might explain Savage's problems

BF004 wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 14:32

Yoop wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 14:21

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 14:14

What would you like me to explain?

He didn't ask you now did he ? thing is there is no explanation given, and believe me I've tried, but maybe your better at getting a answer from PFR, they have not answered my emails, as I said, best guess is they count the first hurry and unless there is a hit or a sack thats all the hurry's they count.

imo that discards hurry's from other players on that play.

and your sarcasm is noted.

Well don't bother asking PFR, they list right on their website exactly how they define them. But then they also note they get all of their statistics from SportsRadar. That's who you want to ask how they define/determine a hurry. PFR just presents the numbers they get and calculate.

I'll share this again, I know I have in the past.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... _stats.htm


image.png

thanks, I do remember this from the last time you posted it, thing is they do the total pressures the same as PFF, hurry's + hit's, (knockdowns) and sacks combined those 3 equal total pressures, whats not explained, and what we can guess is that PFF is more liberal when it comes to hit's and hurry's and sports radar is ultra stingy, ya simply can not have a 45 pressure difference as is the case with Z in 2019, that to me is mind boggling, sport radar has to be omiting pressures for some reason that I'am missing.

[mention]Yoop[/mention], can you produce the hurry definition from PFF? How about the pressure definition from PFF?

SportsRadar is not omitting anything. This is not another conspiracy. Until we know what actually constitutes a hurry and a pressure from PFF there is no need to fabricate reasons why they are different. There really is no reason to get all upset that they are different, either.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 15:57

@Yoop, can you produce the hurry definition from PFF? How about the pressure definition from PFF?

SportsRadar is not omitting anything. This is not another conspiracy. Until we know what actually constitutes a hurry and a pressure from PFF there is no need to fabricate reasons why they are different. There really is no reason to get all upset that they are different, either.

hear PFF explains why giving Gary 2nd best in league really does matter, Sports Radar keeps stats, PFF explains the reason for the grade., and why would you think sports radar isn't omitting pressures, how do you explain PFR giving Z 50 combined sacks, hits and hurries and PFF giving him 95 ? Sports radar people would have to have there eyes closed, it just doesn't jive is all I'am saying.


Pressures matter

All pass-rushers are trying to sack the quarterback, but even the best will only do so on around three percent of their snaps on the field. Hits and hurries combine with sacks to form a much more robust picture of total pressure generated.

Pressure that does not result in a sack is important too, as just pressuring the quarterback sees an average drop in passer rating of 32.0 points from 94.4 to 61.8 over the past 10 years. That’s the equivalent of turning Ben Roethlisberger into Blaine Gabbert just by hurrying him in the pocket.

Beasley led the league in sacks, but he was just 18th even among edge defenders when it comes to total pressures. Compare that to a player like Oakland’s Khalil Mack who led the league with 96 combined sacks, hits and hurries, and Beasley has a significant deficit in total pressure.

When we used our analytics to run numbers to find out just how valuable pressure was compared to sacks, our Expected Points Added data showed that a sack is worth around 2.1 pressures of any other kind. So, a player like Mack would only need to have had an extra 11 hits or hurries to have added more value as a pass-rusher than Beasley despite having five fewer sacks over the season. Mack, in reality, had 40 more pressures, and so had a significantly higher PFF grade than Beasley.

https://www.pff.com/grades

heres there description of what constitutes a pressure, real common sense stuff.

Under pressure passing is any time the quarterback is disturbed from his normal throwing motion from set up to release, or anytime a pressure is registered on a given passing play.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-signat ... a-glossary

[mention]Yoop[/mention] No, that article is not explaining why "giving" Gary 2nd best in the league really is important. Your article only explains why pressures themselves are important and valuable, which no one has ever denied that pressures are valuable and important.

and why would you think sports radar isn't omitting pressures how do you explain PFR giving Z 50 combined sacks, hits and hurries and PFF giving him 95 ?

Very simply, because SportsRadar counts a pressure as a QB KNOCKDOWN, not just a QB HIT, AND they have a VERY specific definition of a hurry which is when a passer is chased from the pocket or forced to throw before they are ready. They are not omitting anything, they are more selective to what constitutes a hurry or pressure compared to whatever PFF does.

Sports radar people would have to have there eyes closed, it just doesn't jive is all I'am saying.

It doesn't jive with you because you don't want it to, not because it is actually reality. You are still so stuck on the PFF vs. PFR thing that you can't realize the way they are counting a pressure is different (but the same name). Maybe that is where you are hung up. They are calling their stat by the same name, but it is counting slightly different things. Does that help?

heres there description of what constitutes a pressure, real common sense stuff.

Under pressure passing is any time the quarterback is disturbed from his normal throwing motion from set up to release, or anytime a pressure is registered on a given passing play.

That isn't actually a definition of a defensive pressure. It is the definition of the QB Under Pressure stat, but let's go with it because it MIGHT be similar. It would then be no wonder they are so liberal in assigning a pressure since it is, "any time the quarterback is disturbed from his normal throwing motion from set up to release." So that means if a QB has to move his feet at all because of a defender, it is a pressure, even if he only moved a few feet, was able to reset, and threw the pass in rhythm. There isn't anything inherently wrong with this, but it will obviously account for why PFF has such an inflated Pressure number compared to PFR (assuming this is actually the definition of a defensive pressure).

the same as PFF, hurry's + hit's, (knockdowns) and sacks combined those 3 equal total pressures

Let me ask again, since you claim the PFF pressures includes hurries, what is the PFF definition of a hurry?

Interestingly enough about get all up in arms over Gary being snubbed by PFR, PFF rates Gary as the 74th best EDGE Defender in the NFL. Whitney Merciless and Jonathan Garvin are rated better than he is... Might want to ask why PFF is snubbing Gary?! Is PFF omitting Gary's good plays?!

Aaron Rodgers is the 32nd rated QB in the League. SNUBBED! OMITTED!



I do not think these ranks are the case, just want to point on we can see almost nothing about PFF, just snippets here are there and never a full picture.

Just realized that even though it's been 13-3 all three years and NFCCG exits in the first 2, we've actually had better regular season/seeding outcomes each year.

2019: 13-3 was good for the 2-seed in the NFC; the AFC 1-seed also had a better record. So, 3th in the NFL, 2nd in the NFC.

2020: 13-3 was good for the 1-seed in the NFC; but the AFC 1-seed had a better record. So 2nd in the NFL, 1st in the NFC.

2021: 13-3, 14-3, or 13-4 is good for the 1-seed in the NFC. The AFC 1-seed will have fewer wins. So 1st in the NFL, 1st in the NFC.

I mean, take this play. Who gets credit for a pressure?


Preston obviously, he clearly gets a sack, knockdown or hurry. Does Gary, Clark or Anderson?

Could be for PFF and their criteria, they give Gary a pressure. PFR might say no but because Gary doesn't directly force the QB scramble off schedule.





No one is omitting or ignoring pressures. It simply subjective and differing thresholds. Why I said PFR's still hold value, possibly more, just likely it is a more definitive pressure like this for Gary.




Here is an example where PFF maybe grants a pressure, PFR maybe not.

BF004 wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 17:21

I mean, take this play. Who gets credit for a pressure?
...

No one is omitting or ignoring pressures. It simply subjective and differing thresholds. Why I said PFR's still hold value, possibly more, just likely it is a more definitive pressure like this for Gary.
...

Here is an example where PFF maybe grants a pressure, PFR maybe not.

Daaaang you bringing pictures to a word fight.

Very few pics, but a fun time at the game! So much to catch up on with what happened and stuff today. Will try to do that tomorrow.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 16:56

@Yoop No, that article is not explaining why "giving" Gary 2nd best in the league really is important. Your article only explains why pressures themselves are important and valuable, which no one has ever denied that pressures are valuable and important.

and why would you think sports radar isn't omitting pressures how do you explain PFR giving Z 50 combined sacks, hits and hurries and PFF giving him 95 ?

Very simply, because SportsRadar counts a pressure as a QB KNOCKDOWN, not just a QB HIT, AND they have a VERY specific definition of a hurry which is when a passer is chased from the pocket or forced to throw before they are ready. They are not omitting anything, they are more selective to what constitutes a hurry or pressure compared to whatever PFF does.

Sports radar people would have to have there eyes closed, it just doesn't jive is all I'am saying.

It doesn't jive with you because you don't want it to, not because it is actually reality. You are still so stuck on the PFF vs. PFR thing that you can't realize the way they are counting a pressure is different (but the same name). Maybe that is where you are hung up. They are calling their stat by the same name, but it is counting slightly different things. Does that help?

heres there description of what constitutes a pressure, real common sense stuff.

Under pressure passing is any time the quarterback is disturbed from his normal throwing motion from set up to release, or anytime a pressure is registered on a given passing play.

That isn't actually a definition of a defensive pressure. It is the definition of the QB Under Pressure stat, but let's go with it because it MIGHT be similar. It would then be no wonder they are so liberal in assigning a pressure since it is, "any time the quarterback is disturbed from his normal throwing motion from set up to release." So that means if a QB has to move his feet at all because of a defender, it is a pressure, even if he only moved a few feet, was able to reset, and threw the pass in rhythm. There isn't anything inherently wrong with this, but it will obviously account for why PFF has such an inflated Pressure number compared to PFR (assuming this is actually the definition of a defensive pressure).

the same as PFF, hurry's + hit's, (knockdowns) and sacks combined those 3 equal total pressures

Let me ask again, since you claim the PFF pressures includes hurries, what is the PFF definition of a hurry?

why are you turning this into a tongue twister???? why is this sentence so hard for your to accept????
this is a definition of a hurry as well as being counted as a pressure

Under pressure passing is any time the quarterback is disturbed from his normal throwing motion from set up to release, or anytime a pressure is registered on a given passing play.

your the one who wont accept a simple explanation, as the vids 004 just brought clearly shows, multiple players get pressure on any given play.

quoting you here
Very simply, because SportsRadar counts a pressure as a QB KNOCKDOWN, not just a QB HIT, AND they have a VERY specific definition of a hurry which is when a passer is chased from the pocket or forced to throw before they are ready. They are not omitting anything, they are more selective to what constitutes a hurry or pressure compared to whatever PFF does.

according to YOU, PFR doesn't count a hurry when a rusher forces the QB to get rid of the ball unless the QB has to move to do it, and if the rusher hits the QB it doesn't count as a pressure, do you even bother to think how idiotic that is, I'll go with PFF's idea that any time a QB is forced to hurry his throw it constitutes as a pressure, no wonder PFR is shorting Gary 35 pressures this year.

and Gary is ranked 2nd from PFF as a edge rusher, his ranking as a edge defender probably drops because of poorer run support and his lack of containing the edge, I don't know, his pass rush ability from the edge was all I was focused on.

BF004 wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022 17:21

I mean, take this play. Who gets credit for a pressure?


Preston obviously, he clearly gets a sack, knockdown or hurry. Does Gary, Clark or Anderson?

Could be for PFF and their criteria, they give Gary a pressure. PFR might say no but because Gary doesn't directly force the QB scramble off schedule.





No one is omitting or ignoring pressures. It simply subjective and differing thresholds. Why I said PFR's still hold value, possibly more, just likely it is a more definitive pressure like this for Gary.




Here is an example where PFF maybe grants a pressure, PFR maybe not.

why wouldn't you give a hurry to 3, they caused the QB to scramble, Gary had initial pressure, Anderson closed and forced him back inside and Preston sacked him, the hurry's ( pressure) forced the sack, thats why PFF counts them.

obviously both sites are used for reference, imo PFF does a more complete job.

I'll prefer reading a column like this over anything PFR ever produces, they do a dis service to every player when they limit the scope of there data.


Packers OLB Rashan Gary quietly producing an elite season as pass-rusher
Zach Kruse
Mon, January 3, 2022, 2:57 PM

He’s not going to the Pro Bowl, and he might not receive any All-Pro votes, but Green Bay Packers edge rusher Rashan Gary is quietly producing an elite season as an edge rusher in 2021.


Gary, who leads the team with 9.5 sacks, added eight more pressures to his total on Sunday night against the Minnesota Vikings, per Pro Football Focus. In just 15 games, Gary has 76 total pressures, which ranks as the second-most among all edge rushers entering Week 18. His pass-rushing productivity sits at 10.2, the third-best mark, while his pass-rush win rate is 25.1, also the third-best mark among edge rushers.

In many ways, Gary’s season greatly resembles the one being produced by Cleveland Browns edge rusher Myles Garrett. Gary just doesn’t have the crazy sack totals that often drive outside perception of a pass-rusher’s season. Garrett has 71 pressures, a pass-rushing productivity mark of 10.0 and a pass-rush win rate of 25.6.

Garrett is in the running for NFL Defensive Player of the Year. Gary was nothing more than an alternate for the Pro Bowl.

Labreve and some of you other Gary Gang members should have brought this yesterday, here I'am not a Gary Gang member, in fact I never even wanted Gary, but here I'am arguing that he be thought of better then PFR has shown him to be, like most fans who think sacks determine the quality of a edge rusher, PFR misses the value pressures produce, this article sheds more light on Gary, pressure often leads to sacks as was easily seen in the clips 004 brought.