Packers Huddle

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:04**

Booooooooo.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:08**

Pugger wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:03

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 08:33
Like this is who he is. He's Clowney, which is great.
What could be the reason Gary is being overlooked by a lot of talking heads?

I think Gary gets his due during games by the commentators. He's a game-relevant level of star right now. I think it was more a thing that Clowney was OVER-hyped due to his college career and even recruiting before that. Clowney was expected to be a phenomenon and that kept him in the conversation, along with his inability/decision not to/circumstances to stick with a team very long so there was always buzz around bringing him in.

Gary needs to string a couple years at this level together and people will start talking about him more.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:09**

I want the national media to be obsessed with Gary after he signs his extension.

I am perfectly fine with his current level of attention.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:10**

Gary still even had a bit of a slow start to year and really hasn't had the production. And in terms of a visible stat like stats, he's kind of been racking them up just recently. His lack of national attention/hype/awareness if justified for now.

However I think he'll be getting the benefit of the doubt heading into next year and if he even matches what he is doing now, he'll be talked about as one of the best defenders in football.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:17**

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:03

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 08:55

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 08:47
What you say is wrong. Period. It isn't rational (see your conspiracy that PFR is intentionally not counting pressures) and it isn't common sense. This is no twisting of your comments at all, you are simply getting lost in what is actually being said. PFR's data is not incomplete. This is you making things up because you simply do not like their data. The incomplete data actually comes from PFF since we in the general public can't see it as it is behind a large pay wall.
BS, go count the hurry's in the clip 004 brought, I easily see 3 hurries, one culminating in a sack, I bet SR only counts the sack, and that is mis leading, thats why I don't like there data reporting.
And this is you making things up again. We are all glad you can see 3, but it isn't what you can see that counts. Can you show us that PFF counted 3? If you actually would care to spend some time reading what has been shown to you, you would see that PFR would most likely count at least 2 pressures. Preston Smith would get a pressure for the sack, for sure. One or both of Anderson or Gary would get a pressure through a hurry that forced the QB out of the pocket. That would fit their definition.

and you are acting deceitful when saying PFF doesn't describe what constitutes a hurry, it's spelled out in several of the clips I've brought, just not exactly how you'd frame it, but it's the same thing.
No, it hasn't been, not at all. You have not brought anything from PFF or the related articles that even mentioned Hurries. You actually fabricated the definition a few posts up. I am not the one being deceitful. The only thing you have brought from PFF or explaining PFF pressures is QB Under Pressure Passing. That is the only thing.

How $%@# hard is it to realize that the definitions of a pressure from PFF and from PFR are DIFFERENT?! How $%@# hard is it to understand that that doesn't make either wrong or incomplete?!

if PFR counted all 3 in that vid a pressure, then they wouldn't miss half of the pressures Gary has produced this year, your supporting a data service that neglects to account for all the hurries that acure on any given play, and as I said, thats fine, you stick to PFR.

again PFF defines exactly what constitutes a HURRY, you simply refuse to accept there explanation, rather you'd rather a hurry only count the idiotic way PFR/SR define it, a hit is not a hurry unless the guy knock s the QB to the ground, again, does that even make sense to you? it doesn't to me.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:27**

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:17
again PFF defines exactly what constitutes a HURRY, you simply refuse to accept there explanation, rather you'd rather a hurry only count the idiotic way PFR/SR define it, a hit is not a hurry unless the guy knock s the QB to the ground, again, does that even make sense to you? it doesn't to me.

It doesn't make sense to you because you are arguing with yourself, again. No one would rather anything... we just accept that it's two different entities producing two different statistics based on different definitions.

If you can grasp that one simple fact then we can all move on to whether one is more valuable than the other (which is probably your real contention and you will likely find one that some, if not most, agree with).

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:29**

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:17
if PFR counted all 3 in that vid a pressure, then they wouldn't miss half of the pressures Gary has produced this year, your supporting a data service that neglects to account for all the hurries that acure on any given play, and as I said, thats fine, you stick to PFR.

It's 1 play, 1 example. There are hundreds in an NFL season. This one could count 3 and another could only count 1 or none. That doesn't mean PFR is missing anything or neglecting to count hurries. It is clearly defined what they count as a hurry.

again PFF defines exactly what constitutes a HURRY, you simply refuse to accept there explanation,

NO, absolutely not. PFF does not define exactly what constitutes a hurry. Please bring it here and show us all. I'll stop posting here for good, if you can bring where you already posted the PFF definition of a hurry.

I think yet again you are confusing hurries and pressures. They are not the same thing. All hurries are pressures. Not all pressures are hurries.

rather you'd rather a hurry only count the idiotic way PFR/SR define it

Not idiotic at all, different. This shows right here you simply do not like it, nothing more, nothing less.

a hit is not a hurry unless the guy knock s the QB to the ground, again, does that even make sense to you? it doesn't to me.

A hit isn't a hurry at all. A hurry is when the QB throws before they are ready or is flushed from the pocket. A QB knockdown where the QB hits the ground after the throw is a pressure.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:33**

Yoop enough.

Literally everyone on this board accepts and understands the difference between the two sites for the exception of you. You have a lot of pride and get very upset when you sense you are wrong about football because you like to point out that you have been watching football longer than when I was suckling my mama's teet or whatever you usually say....yada yada yada.

I don't even know how much I can say you are wrong here because I don't even know what you are saying. You are basically just shouting at a wall.

Hurries are subjective. Everyone here gets that. Again...except you. It is why every week we often bring BOTH site's data here so we can compare because that is what thoughtful analysts do. They analyze. They compare. Because one is higher than the other literally makes no difference other than the fact that they are simply different grading formats. They are both able to grade based on their criteria as long as their criteria remains consistent which we have seen they materially do.

Bringing this up every single week is starting to take the fun away on this board.

We had a legit conversation on this board about this last spring and we came to the conclusion for the difference. We often bring in PFR because that data is free and nobody really has PFF paid content. It is what it is. The stats are subjective.

Get off of this horse and move on or bring your thoughts out better so at least we can understand what you are talking about.

Nobody is ganging up on you. We literally just don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:42**

NCF wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:27

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:17
again PFF defines exactly what constitutes a HURRY, you simply refuse to accept there explanation, rather you'd rather a hurry only count the idiotic way PFR/SR define it, a hit is not a hurry unless the guy knock s the QB to the ground, again, does that even make sense to you? it doesn't to me.
It doesn't make sense to you because you are arguing with yourself, again. No one would rather anything... we just accept that it's two different entities producing two different statistics based on different definitions.

If you can grasp that one simple fact then we can all move on to whether one is more valuable than the other (which is probably your real contention and you will likely find one that some, if not most, agree with).

I do understand that, and my main point is that PFF does a far better job to show and explain how they determine there grades, it's all spelled out in several of the articles I brought, not complicated at all.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:46**

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:42
I do understand that, and my main point is that PFF does a far better job to show and explain how they determine there grades, it's all spelled out in several of the articles I brought, not complicated at all.

It was not spelled out in the articles you brought. This was literally the ONLY thing you brought that spelled anything out for PFF and it isn't even the right stat:

Under pressure passing is any time the quarterback is disturbed from his normal throwing motion from set up to release, or anytime a pressure is registered on a given passing play.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-signat ... a-glossary

The only other thing you brought was this: https://www.pff.com/grades - which explains WHY pressures matter, NOT what pressures are.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:53**

By comparison this is what we have from PFR:
QB Pressures = hurries + knockdowns + all sack plays (half and full for players, just full sacks for teams)
Hurries - QB threw the ball earlier than intended or chased out of the pocket
QB Knockdowns - QB hit the ground after the throw
Sack - Official since 1982, based on play-by-play, game film and other research since 1960

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 09:58**

go pak go wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:33
Yoop enough.

Literally everyone on this board accepts and understands the difference between the two sites for the exception of you. You have a lot of pride and get very upset when you sense you are wrong about football because you like to point out that you have been watching football longer than when I was suckling my mama's teet or whatever you usually say....yada yada yada.

I don't even know how much I can say you are wrong here because I don't even know what you are saying. You are basically just shouting at a wall.

Hurries are subjective. Everyone here gets that. Again...except you. It is why every week we often bring BOTH site's data here so we can compare because that is what thoughtful analysts do. They analyze. They compare. Because one is higher than the other literally makes no difference other than the fact that they are simply different grading formats. They are both able to grade based on their criteria as long as their criteria remains consistent which we have seen they materially do.

Bringing this up every single week is starting to take the fun away on this board.

We had a legit conversation on this board about this last spring and we came to the conclusion for the difference. We often bring in PFR because that data is free and nobody really has PFF paid content. It is what it is. The stats are subjective.

Get off of this horse and move on or bring your thoughts out better so at least we can understand what you are talking about.

Nobody is ganging up on you. We literally just don't know what the hell you are talking about.

oh please I spout something jokingly and you get all bent out of shape, you need to lighten up and quit taking everything I say as demeaning to you, you get on these defensive kicks over anything you don't agree with.
and if you can't tell when a QB is hurried or forced to change his plan then you simply are being obtuse, hurries are no more subjective then any other football play, your acting like 23 here when he says a HIT is not a hurry, we all can tell when a QB has to take he wouldn't if there had been NO pressure.
and if no one was ganging up on me here this convo would have been over yesterday, basically it's me saying Gary is and has been better this year then PFR/SR is willing to give him credit for compared to PFF who counts all pass rush pressures.

I've been ready to move on, what I'am not ready to do is cave to the insanity that PFR does a reputable Job of data formatting, in fact they don't, probably why they don't charge for there info.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 10:06**

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:58

oh please I spout something jokingly and you get all bent out of shape,

Yeah I don't think you can constitute what you have been spouting as a "joke"

Even just continuing to read your last post makes it apparent it is not a joke.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 10:16**

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:46

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:42
I do understand that, and my main point is that PFF does a far better job to show and explain how they determine there grades, it's all spelled out in several of the articles I brought, not complicated at all.
It was not spelled out in the articles you brought. This was literally the ONLY thing you brought that spelled anything out for PFF and it isn't even the right stat:

Under pressure passing is any time the quarterback is disturbed from his normal throwing motion from set up to release, or anytime a pressure is registered on a given passing play.
https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-signat ... a-glossary

The only other thing you brought was this: https://www.pff.com/grades - which explains WHY pressures matter, NOT what pressures are.

WTF, why do you need a hurry spelled out any different then what it said, a hurry equals a pressure any time a QB is forced to react to it, again why would you think PFF determines it differently? you make no sense, your playing word games, and as I said all 3 players in that 004 vid hurried that QB, and what seems obvious to me is that thats not how PFR recorded that play.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 10:26**

go pak go wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 10:06

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:58

oh please I spout something jokingly and you get all bent out of shape,
Yeah I don't think you can constitute what you have been spouting as a "joke"

Even just continuing to read your last post makes it apparent it is not a joke.

it almost always was, you get into this convo late, but the first thing you did was make fun of me, how would you respond?

there is a huge discrepancy between PFR/SR grades and data compared to PFF, and they reflect player rankings across the league, I find that unexceptable.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 10:29**

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 10:26

go pak go wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 10:06

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:58

oh please I spout something jokingly and you get all bent out of shape,
Yeah I don't think you can constitute what you have been spouting as a "joke"

Even just continuing to read your last post makes it apparent it is not a joke.

it almost always was, you get into this convo late, but the first thing you did was make fun of me, how would you respond?

there is a huge discrepancy between PFR/SR grades and data compared to PFF, and they reflect player rankings across the league, I find that unexceptable.

Alright. Super. So glad that is settled then.

Again.

For this week.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 10:32**

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 10:16
WTF, why do you need a hurry spelled out any different then what it said, a hurry equals a pressure any time a QB is forced to react to it, again why would you think PFF determines it differently? you make no sense, your playing word games, and as I said all 3 players in that 004 vid hurried that QB, and what seems obvious to me is that thats not how PFR recorded that play.

Because what you said is not the definition from PFF. What you think is irrelevant. I want to know what PFF thinks it is. I didn't give you MY definitions, I gave you PFRs definitions. If you don't know how PFF defines it, how can you know your definition aligns with them...

We don't know how PFR recorded the play, so you can't say that is not how they did. They haven't released their stats from this past week.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 10:33**

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 10:26

go pak go wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 10:06

Yoop wrote: ↑
04 Jan 2022 09:58

oh please I spout something jokingly and you get all bent out of shape,
Yeah I don't think you can constitute what you have been spouting as a "joke"

Even just continuing to read your last post makes it apparent it is not a joke.

it almost always was, you get into this convo late, but the first thing you did was make fun of me, how would you respond?

there is a huge discrepancy between PFR/SR grades and data compared to PFF, and they reflect player rankings across the league, I find that unexceptable.

PFR doesn't rank players...

So what you find unacceptable, doesn't actually exist...

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 10:35**

Now this is starting to turn into a joke.

Posted: **04 Jan 2022 10:40**

I stand corrected...

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