Packers Huddle

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 20:50

bud fox wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 20:48

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 18:49

Like what?! This is the craziest statement I have ever heard.

Often times a odds makers look to grow there book will put out a line for attention to grow there brand and market.

Often they will limit bet size.

Its standard. You won't see it from a well established odds maker.

Interestingly enough it looks like you didn't read the article because this was not an up and coming Sports book.

Yeah didn't see who it was to be honest.

bud fox wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 20:53

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 20:50

bud fox wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 20:48

Often times a odds makers look to grow there book will put out a line for attention to grow there brand and market.

Often they will limit bet size.

Its standard. You won't see it from a well established odds maker.

Interestingly enough it looks like you didn't read the article because this was not an up and coming Sports book.

Yeah didn't see who it was to be honest.

Not surprising. Blind faith/allegiance is more your gig.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 14:39

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 14:24

I'd like to see Rodgers show up for camp, play lights out, limit Love's 1st team snaps, then retire the day before the first game. He doesn't want to play for GB and he owes all of us absolutely nothing.

Finally someone is sounding picture perfect exactly like the Favre fans in 2005.

The nostalgia! I kinda missed all the futile controversy of the last time a player was supposedly bigger than the team! Thanks, @Ghost_Lombardi !

Except it isn't 2005, AR has never hinted at immediate retirement year after year and year, and AR is the reigning MVP, not a fading, immobile star prone to throwing away games with INTs.

If an employee doesn't want to play for a team, why would management force him to stay? Our GM and front office has f'ed up all of this.

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 21:03

salmar80 wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 14:39

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 14:24

I'd like to see Rodgers show up for camp, play lights out, limit Love's 1st team snaps, then retire the day before the first game. He doesn't want to play for GB and he owes all of us absolutely nothing.

Finally someone is sounding picture perfect exactly like the Favre fans in 2005.

The nostalgia! I kinda missed all the futile controversy of the last time a player was supposedly bigger than the team! Thanks, @Ghost_Lombardi !

Except it isn't 2005, AR has never hinted at immediate retirement year after year and year, and AR is the reigning MVP, not a fading, immobile star prone to throwing away games with INTs.

If an employee doesn't want to play for a team, why would management force him to stay? Our GM and front office has f'ed up all of this.

Rodgers wasn't the MVP when they drafted Love, far from it. There are HUGE salary cap implications to trading Rodgers. Letting him sit a year or retire solves that and garners similar compensation.

This is all media hype. Rodgers had an MVP season so his agents is trying to leverage this season to get a no trade contract. Want it done now while his market value is highest.

Packers FO are in cap hell and need to wait a year to do something. Thus the impasse. Very common contract negotiations and one side is leaking a narrative to the press. Sucks for the fans but I can see what both sides are trying to do. I do believe Rodgers could have stopped the drama but I think he loves it.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 15:05

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 14:47

go pak go wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 10:37

Oh I believe we will be netting multiple first round picks next spring. I don't see why the price would reduce as long as Rodgers stays healthy. If he puts on a comparable 2020 performance...we will do just fine.

Very big IF. But even if he duplicates last season and plays like an ordinary QB in the playoffs again, why would any team give up multiple 1st round picks for a QB that plays like an average QB in the playoffs 3 years in a row?

It would sell a lot of tickets and jerseys. And could save a team prez and/or GM their jobs.

Anyone who trades for Aaron Rodgers gets their fans an instant ticket to SB hopes. That's worth a lot in many places.

AR's lack of more SB wins would just be explained by Yoop logic: every time it was someone else's fault.

it was, are you so blinded by your homerism that you didn't see King give up two easy TD's or drops by receivers, or the free flow of pass rushers forcing Rodgers out of the pocket, and issues like that, outside of Rodgers control that ended every playoff game, people are acting as though Rodgers is to blame for those losses and thats utter nonsense.

Yoop wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 07:34

salmar80 wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 15:05

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 14:47

Very big IF. But even if he duplicates last season and plays like an ordinary QB in the playoffs again, why would any team give up multiple 1st round picks for a QB that plays like an average QB in the playoffs 3 years in a row?

It would sell a lot of tickets and jerseys. And could save a team prez and/or GM their jobs.

Anyone who trades for Aaron Rodgers gets their fans an instant ticket to SB hopes. That's worth a lot in many places.

AR's lack of more SB wins would just be explained by Yoop logic: every time it was someone else's fault.

it was, are you so blinded by your homerism that you didn't see King give up two easy TD's or drops by receivers, or the free flow of pass rushers forcing Rodgers out of the pocket, and issues like that, outside of Rodgers control that ended every playoff game, people are acting as though Rodgers is to blame for those losses and thats utter nonsense.

And here we go yet again...

so funny

.

I seriously don't know why people think Rodgers wants a "no trade clause"

It doesn't take much of a person to look at the 2022 - 2025 outlook and see this team has to be blown up. Rodgers's friends can't be on the team if he is on the team. If I am Rodgers, and I actually care about having fun and winning, I don't want to be on the Packers after this season.

This roster is an unsustainable train wreck waiting to happen. This roster is too top heavy of high priced stars.

And it's why we are seeing our "stars" like Z, Rodgers, Adams complain. They all have issues with their contract and they all disappear when we need them.

Yoop wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 07:34

salmar80 wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 15:05

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 14:47

Very big IF. But even if he duplicates last season and plays like an ordinary QB in the playoffs again, why would any team give up multiple 1st round picks for a QB that plays like an average QB in the playoffs 3 years in a row?

It would sell a lot of tickets and jerseys. And could save a team prez and/or GM their jobs.

Anyone who trades for Aaron Rodgers gets their fans an instant ticket to SB hopes. That's worth a lot in many places.

AR's lack of more SB wins would just be explained by Yoop logic: every time it was someone else's fault.

it was, are you so blinded by your homerism that you didn't see King give up two easy TD's or drops by receivers, or the free flow of pass rushers forcing Rodgers out of the pocket, and issues like that, outside of Rodgers control that ended every playoff game, people are acting as though Rodgers is to blame for those losses and thats utter nonsense.

Side A: acknowledges Rodgers missed plays. Adams had a drop. EQSB had a drop. Savage didn't make a play. Redmond dropped an INT. King had his worst game of his career. MLF didn't pound the ball.

Side B: acknowledges everything side A acknowledges. Side B mentions more drops to juice it up a bit. Side B doesn't acknowledge Rodgers shortcomings and instead insists he is the best player on the field in every playoff loss.

Yet side A is the one blinded homerism.

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 09:03

Yoop wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 07:34

salmar80 wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 15:05

It would sell a lot of tickets and jerseys. And could save a team prez and/or GM their jobs.

Anyone who trades for Aaron Rodgers gets their fans an instant ticket to SB hopes. That's worth a lot in many places.

AR's lack of more SB wins would just be explained by Yoop logic: every time it was someone else's fault.

it was, are you so blinded by your homerism that you didn't see King give up two easy TD's or drops by receivers, or the free flow of pass rushers forcing Rodgers out of the pocket, and issues like that, outside of Rodgers control that ended every playoff game, people are acting as though Rodgers is to blame for those losses and thats utter nonsense.

Side A: acknowledges Rodgers missed plays. Adams had a drop. EQSB had a drop. Savage didn't make a play. Redmond dropped an INT. King had his worst game of his career. MLF didn't pound the ball.

Side B: acknowledges everything side A acknowledges. Side B mentions more drops to juice it up a bit. Side B doesn't acknowledge Rodgers shortcomings and instead insists he is the best player on the field in every playoff loss.

Yet side A is the one blinded homerism.

bull, side B stipulates all players make mistakes, just that Rodgers makes less then others in PO games

Florio hits the nail on the head


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/much-money ... 58129.html

and Ghost and Willie was great did to, while this FO has put together a great team, it failed to make sure it's main star is happy, and that florio article paints the picture why.

Yoop wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 09:13

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 09:03

Yoop wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 07:34

it was, are you so blinded by your homerism that you didn't see King give up two easy TD's or drops by receivers, or the free flow of pass rushers forcing Rodgers out of the pocket, and issues like that, outside of Rodgers control that ended every playoff game, people are acting as though Rodgers is to blame for those losses and thats utter nonsense.

Side A: acknowledges Rodgers missed plays. Adams had a drop. EQSB had a drop. Savage didn't make a play. Redmond dropped an INT. King had his worst game of his career. MLF didn't pound the ball.

Side B: acknowledges everything side A acknowledges. Side B mentions more drops to juice it up a bit. Side B doesn't acknowledge Rodgers shortcomings and instead insists he is the best player on the field in every playoff loss.

Yet side A is the one blinded homerism.

bull, side B stipulates all players make mistakes, just that Rodgers makes less then others in PO games

No joke. I have not once heard you ever identify a fault that Rodgers has had in playoffs games beyond a "everyone makes mistakes" generality.

Like that is the absolute definition of homerism.

If we are going to make general statements about Rodgers being the least bad player in playoff games, let's look at the data.

In 2 NFC Championship games and a wildcard loss (3 games), Rodgers has done the following:

-thrown under 200 yards passing
-thrown 1 TD or less
-thrown 2 INTs or more

In 2 NFC Championship games

-thrown under 60% completion

When you look at the 2019 NFC Championship stats, you will be more inclined to be like, "oh. Rodgers played well. It was the team who sucked"

His stats were the following:
31 for 39
326 yards
2 TDs and 2 INTs

They look good right?

But when you actually look into the game, you will see these stats are inflated because of garbage time.

1st Half:
1 first down - punt
4 yards - punt
-11 yards - punt
Rodgers gets a big play to Kumerow and Packers drive....Rodgers fumbles and 9ers recover
Rodgers throws an interception
1 yard - punt

To sum up the 1st Half- Rodgers has 2 turnovers and 4 first downs. Crosses midfield once. Packers are down 27 - 0

2nd Half:
When being down by 27, the Packers put 3 TD drives together. Once we get back to somewhat being in the game, Rodgers throws a pick.


When you actually look at the data and the playoff losses each year, you will come to find Rodgers lost because the team let him down in roughly half the losses and the other half Rodgers was just as responsible for the loss.

Not Responsible: 2011, 2012, 2016, 2020
Responsible: 2013, 2014, 2019

2010 NFC Championship we won despite Rodgers and 2015 is kind of a toss up. The defense did amazing holding AZ's offense to low scoring but Rodgers did make a miracle happen the final drive with no WRs to work with.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

24 Jul 2021 14:15

What I do loathe is AR expecting and demanding more influence, security, respect, whatever his real beef is - ON TOP of his massive contracts. Without giving ANYTHING in return, except for the QB services he's already paid for.

Tom costs 10.5M against the cap this season. AR costs 37.2M

This!

There are a lot of reasons that we could consider players in any sport to be GOAT. And Rodgers and Brady are both in that conversation, for sure. But one measure of a great player is how much he is willing to sacrifice for the good of the team and how much he would actually lead instead of just play. (I could point to Marino, but I’ll digress.)

Want to see a motivational QB at that level? Look at Brady. Look at Namath for a time. Staubach and Bradshaw. Manning. But not Rodgers. He prefers to “lead” by his play on the field. And clearly, his attitude off the field is NOT great leadership. That indirectly leads to wins or losses just like almost anything else. Aaron Rodgers is NOT the GOAT. And this is actually a reason why the Packers should consider trading him. We’ll get more than 10 wins in 2021 with him, for sure. And maybe a deep playoff run. But the team won’t be as good as what is could’ve been as long as he carries this nonsense. A player can’t pull this and then “just show up and play” and then expect the motivation and cohesion that the team needs to just show up.

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 09:38

No joke. I have not once heard you ever identify a fault that Rodgers has had in playoffs games beyond a "everyone makes mistakes" generality.

why would I, you and others here do all of that for me, with any lose you and others quickly point out any failure Rodgers had, and your doing it again with these losses in 013, 015, and 019 and you did it last year to but now retracting that.

heres a link ( and there are many) that supports Rodgers i n PO games

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/aaron-rod ... rances-217

also, stop with this we can't afford Rodgers and Adams crap also, those are the two hardest players to replace, prior to jettasing those two I'd dump both Smiths, Clark, or any other max contract player on the roster before those two go

Yoop wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 09:58

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 09:38

No joke. I have not once heard you ever identify a fault that Rodgers has had in playoffs games beyond a "everyone makes mistakes" generality.

why would I, you and others here do all of that for me, with any lose you and others quickly point out any failure Rodgers had, and your doing it again with these losses in 013, 015, and 019 and you did it last year to but now retracting that.

heres a link ( and there are many) that supports Rodgers i n PO games

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/aaron-rod ... rances-217

also, stop with this we can't afford Rodgers and Adams crap also, those are the two hardest players to replace, prior to jettasing those two I'd dump both Smiths, Clark, or any other max contract player on the roster before those two go

Yeah I'm completely opposite.

The Packers have tried the "star road" for building a roster for the past decade and it didn't work. I prefer to long term try the "build a solid and deep team mode"

You can't complain there isn't enough supporting pieces and that's why the stars don't succeed in big moments but then also state, "do whatever is necessary to keep our biggest stars"

I'm excited for 2021. I want to see these guys give it one last chance at reaching glory. But honestly a part of me is really excited to ty and build a young, humble, and hungry team without all this drama again. The Packers are so top heavy which again is fine, until those top heavy players don't rise up when it is time to rise up.

But you are right. I don't think we could let go of Clark. He is too early in his deal. But to keep Rodgers and Adams, I too think both Smiths and Amos would probably have to go.

A guy I am starting to just love more and more is Aaron Jones.

He takes a deal that is by all means pretty team friendly (but still pays him handsomely). He goes to all voluntary practices even when all other vets leave town. He stays in GB to do charity work all offseason. All while going through a terrible offseason where his dad dies too young.

I used to think Jones was a clear cut candidate in 2023. But now I am thinking if we start from scratch and Jones continues to be the playmaker he is, that he will end up being a cornerstone of this roster moving forward.

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 09:38

Yoop wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 09:13

go pak go wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 09:03

Side A: acknowledges Rodgers missed plays. Adams had a drop. EQSB had a drop. Savage didn't make a play. Redmond dropped an INT. King had his worst game of his career. MLF didn't pound the ball.

Side B: acknowledges everything side A acknowledges. Side B mentions more drops to juice it up a bit. Side B doesn't acknowledge Rodgers shortcomings and instead insists he is the best player on the field in every playoff loss.

Yet side A is the one blinded homerism.

bull, side B stipulates all players make mistakes, just that Rodgers makes less then others in PO games

No joke. I have not once heard you ever identify a fault that Rodgers has had in playoffs games beyond a "everyone makes mistakes" generality.

Like that is the absolute definition of homerism.

If we are going to make general statements about Rodgers being the least bad player in playoff games, let's look at the data.

In 2 NFC Championship games and a wildcard loss (3 games), Rodgers has done the following:

-thrown under 200 yards passing
-thrown 1 TD or less
-thrown 2 INTs or more

In 2 NFC Championship games

-thrown under 60% completion

When you look at the 2019 NFC Championship stats, you will be more inclined to be like, "oh. Rodgers played well. It was the team who sucked"

His stats were the following:
31 for 39
326 yards
2 TDs and 2 INTs

They look good right?

But when you actually look into the game, you will see these stats are inflated because of garbage time.

1st Half:
1 first down - punt
4 yards - punt
-11 yards - punt
Rodgers gets a big play to Kumerow and Packers drive....Rodgers fumbles and 9ers recover
Rodgers throws an interception
1 yard - punt

To sum up the 1st Half- Rodgers has 2 turnovers and 4 first downs. Crosses midfield once. Packers are down 27 - 0

2nd Half:
When being down by 27, the Packers put 3 TD drives together. Once we get back to somewhat being in the game, Rodgers throws a pick.


When you actually look at the data and the playoff losses each year, you will come to find Rodgers lost because the team let him down in roughly half the losses and the other half Rodgers was just as responsible for the loss.

Not Responsible: 2011, 2012, 2016, 2020
Responsible: 2013, 2014, 2019

2010 NFC Championship we won despite Rodgers and 2015 is kind of a toss up. The defense did amazing holding AZ's offense to low scoring but Rodgers did make a miracle happen the final drive with no WRs to work with.

Defenses are gonna be great that we face in the NFCCG most likely, or the opposing team wouldn’t be in the game. The issue with Rodgers sub par stats have some to do with him, and a lot to do with the fact that hardly any QB in football history could throw the ball at will for tons of yards and tds against these defenses. The packers have needed balance in these games, like almost all good teams have, yet we have either not had a run game, or forgot we had a run game. A run game threat prevents the DL from teeing off on the QB in pass rush mode, and it brings more defenders into the box to try to stop the run, instead of having them focus on the pass.

If 12 comes back, I pray to God that we can remember all the resources we have put into the running game and we can be patient with it and work to achieve balance in the playoffs or NFCCG if we shall return.

I guarantee you Rodgers will have some better stats against the leagues top defenses, with a little threat of running the ball.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 10:09

Defenses are gonna be great that we face in the NFCCG most likely, or the opposing team wouldn’t be in the game. The issue with Rodgers sub par stats have some to do with him, and a lot to do with the fact that hardly any QB in football history could throw the ball at will for tons of yards and tds against these defenses. The packers have needed balance in these games, like almost all good teams have, yet we have either not had a run game, or forgot we had a run game. A run game threat prevents the DL from teeing off on the QB in pass rush mode, and it brings more defenders into the box to try to stop the run, instead of having them focus on the pass.

If 12 comes back, I pray to God that we can remember all the resources we have put into the running game and we can be patient with it and work to achieve balance in the playoffs or NFCCG if we shall return.

I guarantee you Rodgers will have some better stats against the leagues top defenses, with a little threat of running the ball.

well said DR J.
I think poor defensive performance and poor coaching decisions are far more responsible for our PO losses then Rodgers.

look at that loss against the seahawks, McCarthy bangs Lacy in to a brick wall when Sherman and every other defender is in the box, yes Rodgers is hurt but he could have flipped it with his left hand to anyone for a 1st down, and the rest of the losses contain the same bone headed coaching decisions, but hey it's easier to just blame the QB

Drj820 wrote: ↑

25 Jul 2021 10:09

Defenses are gonna be great that we face in the NFCCG most likely, or the opposing team wouldn’t be in the game. The issue with Rodgers sub par stats have some to do with him, and a lot to do with the fact that hardly any QB in football history could throw the ball at will for tons of yards and tds against these defenses. The packers have needed balance in these games, like almost all good teams have, yet we have either not had a run game, or forgot we had a run game. A run game threat prevents the DL from teeing off on the QB in pass rush mode, and it brings more defenders into the box to try to stop the run, instead of having them focus on the pass.

If 12 comes back, I pray to God that we can remember all the resources we have put into the running game and we can be patient with it and work to achieve balance in the playoffs or NFCCG if we shall return.

I guarantee you Rodgers will have some better stats against the leagues top defenses, with a little threat of running the ball.

It gets tricky trying to explain macro trends because in-depth micro analysis can always have tangent explanations. I fully agree with that. Analysis is tough because excuses can be made easily. Especially when it's a football team with a 53 man roster and huge coaching staff. It's very easy to defend a player if you want, blame a player if you want, defend a coach if you want, blame a coach if you want, etc.

The challenge is on a macro level, upper management is expected to have a deep team with no weaknesses while playing in the parameters of keeping stars happy with huge cap burdening contracts.

The 2010 - 2012 era mantra was - we are too pass heavy dependent. No running game! No defense!

The 2013 - 2014 era we fixed that. Our defense was solid. Our running game exploded with Eddie Lacy. And our passing attack became consolidated but still deadly. The end results though were two playoff games with significant offensive disappointment ending the season.

The 2015 - 2016 era was a massive failure. It just was. This was the era of Rodgers carrying the team on his back. And it's true.

The 2017 - 2018 era was the massive failure being illustrated to all. And it had to be blown up.

The 2019 - 2020 era was a balanced approach but it came at great cost and is not on a sustainable track. Significant FA and draft capital spending on defense. Significant attention to run game on offense. 2020 was the most successful as it illustrated when playing within the offense taking what is given, just how successful it can be.

We went from "Rodgers has too many weapons, to Rodgers has no weapons" in this 10 year span. When I look at it, at some point I am like....well what do we need to do moving forward? Right now we are top heavy. Top heavy hasn't worked. I am happy to give it one more shot but then try a different approach if. And honestly, we are going to be forced to go a different approach if it does or doesn't work.

Long run I like our head coach. Long run I like a lot of our 2018 and 2019 drafted players. Long run I have hope for our 2020 and 2021 drafted players. I also really like Amos and likely Z.