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Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:31
by paco
Half Empty wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:14
NCF wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 09:01
go pak go wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 08:55
My guess on the Keke thing is it deeper than just not stopping the run.
We know he has been hurt. We know he has not practiced. We know he has been a healthy scratch. That all being said, if they thought he was a good fit in the locker room and part of the team, they would have just IR'd him at this point to open a roster spot.
Because they didn't do this....something tells me there is more to this that we just don't know right now.
There is a salary cap component to his release that actually saves us a chunk next year, but still, I agree there is more to it than just that.
Definitely not a cap expert, and this is strictly for curiosity, but I don't see anything on the major cap sites that show how the release now saves anything. Can you relate a quick-and-dirty explanation?
/
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:33
by salmar80
Half Empty wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:14
NCF wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 09:01
go pak go wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 08:55
My guess on the Keke thing is it deeper than just not stopping the run.
We know he has been hurt. We know he has not practiced. We know he has been a healthy scratch. That all being said, if they thought he was a good fit in the locker room and part of the team, they would have just IR'd him at this point to open a roster spot.
Because they didn't do this....something tells me there is more to this that we just don't know right now.
There is a salary cap component to his release that actually saves us a chunk next year, but still, I agree there is more to it than just that.
Definitely not a cap expert, and this is strictly for curiosity, but I don't see anything on the major cap sites that show how the release now saves anything. Can you relate a quick-and-dirty explanation?
/
Since he was cut after last regular season game, he has already earned his full salary, so cutting him saves no cap this season.
For 2022, we "save" $965,000 with 78k in dead cap. Which is really nothing, since even a minimum salary player makes close to that, so actual saving is like 200k.
I think Ingall is mistaken about the 2022 savings. Keke's entire contract was worth 2.8M. I don't see how the last year could have a 2.2M saving.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:40
by paco
salmar80 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:33
Half Empty wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:14
NCF wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 09:01
There is a salary cap component to his release that actually saves us a chunk next year, but still, I agree there is more to it than just that.
Definitely not a cap expert, and this is strictly for curiosity, but I don't see anything on the major cap sites that show how the release now saves anything. Can you relate a quick-and-dirty explanation?
/
Since he was cut after last regular season game, he has already earned his full salary, so cutting him saves no cap this season.
For 2022, we "save" $965,000 with 78k in dead cap. Which is really nothing, since even a minimum salary player makes close to that, so actual saving is like 200k.
What you said appears to be much more accurate than what Ken Ingalls put out there. Not sure how he came up with a number over $2M. His total contract over 4 years was only about $2.8M.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:43
by NCF
salmar80 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:33
Half Empty wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:14
NCF wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 09:01
There is a salary cap component to his release that actually saves us a chunk next year, but still, I agree there is more to it than just that.
Definitely not a cap expert, and this is strictly for curiosity, but I don't see anything on the major cap sites that show how the release now saves anything. Can you relate a quick-and-dirty explanation?
/
Since he was cut after last regular season game, he has already earned his full salary, so cutting him saves no cap this season.
For 2022, we "save" $965,000 with 78k in dead cap. Which is really nothing, since even a minimum salary player makes close to that, so actual saving is like 200k.
I think Ingall is mistaken about the 2022 savings. Keke's entire contract was worth 2.8M. I don't see how the last year could have a 2.2M saving.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:44
by paco
NCF wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:43
Not sure how I missed that tweet. That explains it.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:46
by YoHoChecko
You guys.
This is not about the cap.
It is not about his play (alone).
Something happened. It's obvious. And I don't understand why everyone is grasping so hard at a "why" when we already know and it is patently obvious that the "why" is an unknown factor.
We do not have to go through every possible factor and rule it out or in as a rationale. A guy who played 64% of the snaps and then who goes weirdly inactive and then is released from a rookie contract days before the playoffs is not being released for cap savings or on-field performance issues. Like... just stop with these dumb half-wit explanations of what this could mean.
It's absurdly obviously not about the cap and while his lack of playing improvement may make him more expendable, the timing and recent activity around it make it almost as obviously not about his on-field performance. Why are we like this?
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:47
by Pckfn23
NCF wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:43
salmar80 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:33
Half Empty wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:14
Definitely not a cap expert, and this is strictly for curiosity, but I don't see anything on the major cap sites that show how the release now saves anything. Can you relate a quick-and-dirty explanation?
/
Since he was cut after last regular season game, he has already earned his full salary, so cutting him saves no cap this season.
For 2022, we "save" $965,000 with 78k in dead cap. Which is really nothing, since even a minimum salary player makes close to that, so actual saving is like 200k.
I think Ingall is mistaken about the 2022 savings. Keke's entire contract was worth 2.8M. I don't see how the last year could have a 2.2M saving.
That would be a WEIRD escalator in a rookie contract. Not sure Ingalls is right here.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:47
by Pckfn23
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:46
You guys.
This is not about the cap.
It is not about his play (alone).
We know this, we are simply talking cap. NO ONE is saying he was cut for cap reasons. EVERYONE here understands that it was most likely about something off the field.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:50
by NCF
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:46
It's absurdly obviously not about the cap and while his lack of playing improvement may make him more expendable, the timing and recent activity around it make it almost as obviously not about his on-field performance. Why are we like this?
I simply pointed out that there IS a cap component to this. It would be far more difficult to release him if that impact was going the other way. In this case, it probably helped cement the decision that this was the right move to make. I completely agree the main reason is something else, but the cap consequences made the pending move more palatable.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:51
by NCF
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:47
That would be a WEIRD escalator in a rookie contract. Not sure Ingalls is right here.
It's not written into his deal, it's part of the CBA.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:51
by Yoop
DL tend to take time to develop, it's a tough position, But Keke has not amounted to anything, 50 freaking tackles over 3 years and 20 pressures, Keke is the type of player your always trying to improve upon.
ya know why the Niner fans expect to run on us? simple it's because we have guys like Keke defending the run, this has nothing to do with the person, it has to do with the player, and we need better then him on our DL.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:53
by paco
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:54
by APB
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 11:46
You guys.
This is not about the cap.
It is not about his play (alone).
Something happened. It's obvious. And I don't understand why everyone is grasping so hard at a "why" when we already know and it is patently obvious that the "why" is an unknown factor.
We do not have to go through every possible factor and rule it out or in as a rationale. A guy who played 64% of the snaps and then who goes weirdly inactive and then is released from a rookie contract days before the playoffs is not being released for cap savings or on-field performance issues. Like... just stop with these dumb half-wit explanations of what this could mean.
It's absurdly obviously not about the cap and while his lack of playing improvement may make him more expendable, the timing and recent activity around it make it almost as obviously not about his on-field performance. Why are we like this?
Kinda harsh post considering nobody here is advocating he was dumped for anything other than the unknown issue you just restated….?
The cap component is residual. That is the tangential discussion point.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 11:59
by Pckfn23
Interesting. So what I found: "One-year contract worth $2.133 million."
https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-free- ... ed-to-know
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 12:05
by YoHoChecko
I dunno; just seemed weird that there are like 2-3 pages on Keke here, residual or no.
And the gaslighty "no one here questions that it was for X reason" responses ignore a great deal of those 2-3 pages. Several people have proposed potential reasons related to his effort, his play, and cap considerations.
I just feel like it's a relatively minor event, the release of a 3rd-year 5th-round draft pick, and that the story of why WILL be interesting once told, but having not been told, we're dedicating an unusual amount of written and mental space to the fallout, which is incredibly minor.
Like, we're debating whether it saves a tiny bit of money or a little bit of money based on a performance escalator that isn't even counted in many sources' cap estimates for next year yet in a cap situation where there is soooo much deconstruction in line to occur that the dust won't settle for months.
I just find the enduring size and length of the response disproportionate to the event and its outcomes.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 12:08
by NCF
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 12:05
I just find the enduring size and length of the response disproportionate to the event and its outcomes.
I might suggest the same to you.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 12:10
by paco
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 12:05
I dunno; just seemed weird that there are like 2-3 pages on Keke here, residual or no.
And the gaslighty "no one here questions that it was for X reason" responses ignore a great deal of those 2-3 pages. Several people have proposed potential reasons related to his effort, his play, and cap considerations.
I just feel like it's a relatively minor event, the release of a 3rd-year 5th-round draft pick, and that the story of why WILL be interesting once told, but having not been told, we're dedicating an unusual amount of written and mental space to the fallout, which is incredibly minor.
Like, we're debating whether it saves a tiny bit of money or a little bit of money based on a performance escalator that isn't even counted in many sources' cap estimates for next year yet in a cap situation where there is soooo much deconstruction in line to occur that the dust won't settle for months.
I just find the enduring size and length of the response disproportionate to the event and its outcomes.
Its something to talk about. 49ers game talk is already getting stale. For me, I thought Keke was going to become a big contributor this year. Didn't happen. In the end, if it didn't work out, oh well.
It's not a huge deal on the surface right now. Not sure why your knickers are in a twist because people want to talk about it now. If you prefer to talk something else, give us a topic!
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Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 12:12
by Pckfn23
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022 12:05
And the gaslighty "no one here questions that it was for X reason" responses ignore a great deal of those 2-3 pages. Several people have proposed potential reasons related to his effort, his play, and cap considerations.
Incorrect. Those things are being talked about, not being used as reasons for his release.
I just feel like it's a relatively minor event, the release of a 3rd-year 5th-round draft pick, and that the story of why WILL be interesting once told, but having not been told, we're dedicating an unusual amount of written and mental space to the fallout, which is incredibly minor.
It is fairly unusual to waive a player that, as you said, a month ago was playing appreciable snaps, AND is cut between WC and DIV weekend.
Like, we're debating whether it saves a tiny bit of money or a little bit of money based on a performance escalator that isn't even counted in many sources' cap estimates for next year yet in a cap situation where there is soooo much deconstruction in line to occur that the dust won't settle for months.
We can't talk about that?
I just find the enduring size and length of the response disproportionate to the event and its outcomes.
Do we have to think that?
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 13:25
by Half Empty
At least I no longer feel as ignorant as I did when I asked (again, just for curiosity) about the cap impact.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 20 Jan 2022 13:27
by BSA
Hmmm...Keke and others may have earned those in the past, but for 2020 and 2021- those proven performance bonuses got wiped out by the COVID adjustments.
When the players/owners negotiated how to handle the huge drop in revenue, the proven performance bonuses were sacrificed by the players in order to artificially boost the COVID-cap. Trying to find the article on it - but I remember being disappointed that they eliminated that fantastic program.