Packers Huddle

Drj820 wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 19:46

Lafleur seems to agree with me and Texas

Lafleur has now doubled down on Joe Barry by allowing him to continue to be his Defensive Coordinator.

Lafleur's tenure in Green Bay should now be fully tied to that of his preferred DC.

Good luck with that Matt.

This one is for [mention]Yoop[/mention], only because I haven’t seen Rodgers’ play defended quite enough…

LombardiTime wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 20:47

Drj820 wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 19:46

Lafleur seems to agree with me and Texas

Lafleur has now doubled down on Joe Barry by allowing him to continue to be his Defensive Coordinator.

Lafleur's tenure in Green Bay should now be fully tied to that of his preferred DC.

Good luck with that Matt.

His tenure would always be tied with Barry…he hired him after firing Pettine.

Barry was not the problem but keeping him is a terrible move and should prompt MLF's ouster.

The one thing we had in 2010 that we didn't have in any subsequent year was elite defense. Everything else we've been as good or better at some point after and it wasn't enough. The common denominator is defense. There's a reason for the saying, it really does win championships.

Barry is not the guy for the job.

Barry's stupid defensive schemes cost us probably 4 wins this season, I was waiting to see what Lafleur would do concerning Barry, and I'am not sure I put a lot of stock in what he said to the media, but a repeat of his stupidity again next year and both he and Lafleur should be fired, people complain about Rodgers and the offense, and rightly so, but that was mildly expected since the OL was a patchwork effort and the receiver group was even worse, the run game and this defense was relied on to carry this team, and both had production declines this year.

APB those stats don't show dropped passes, go rewatch that 2020 PO game, drops cost us that game, I'am sure you'd see some in those other PO games to, seem people here refuse to consider any reason for poor stats other then Rodgers is a lousy QB.

Labrev wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 21:46

Barry was not the problem but keeping him is a terrible move and should prompt MLF's ouster.

The one thing we had in 2010 that we didn't have in any subsequent year was elite defense. Everything else we've been as good or better at some point after and it wasn't enough. The common denominator is defense. There's a reason for the saying, it really does win championships.

Barry is not the guy for the job.

actually we had a top 15 defense in 2015, actually top 12 I think.

when someone says a offense almost solely carried by Rodgers 016 through 020 was better then the defense it says alot about the QB, cause the rest of this offense was certainly short on skill position players, I can only imagine how much better Rodgers would have been on a team with a GM that didn't waste so many picks on defense.

and actually the term defense wins championships is false, there is prove of that too, often the teams that have the best defense watch games in january, why you might ask, because like us they spent so much to build that great defense, there offense lacks skill position players, just as we have the last 6 years, teams that go far in the PO's tend to have great balance, both sides of the ball are good, so obviously they have good defense, but they also are able to move the ball and score points.

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 22:34

actually we had a top 15 defense in 2015, actually top 12 I think.

Yeah and Top-15/Top-12 isn't elite.

So, like I said, not as good as 2010. Thank you for agreeing with me.

and actually the term defense wins championships is false, there is prove of that to

No.

Labrev wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 22:41

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 22:34

actually we had a top 15 defense in 2015, actually top 12 I think.

Yeah and Top-15/Top-12 isn't elite.

So, like I said, not as good as 2010. Thank you for agreeing with me.

and actually the term defense wins championships is false, there is prove of that to

No.

yes, I brought evidence of it a month or so back, in 018 or 019 the 3 best defenses in the league never even made the PO's, obviously some of the greatest defenses do win SB's, but those teams usually have a great offense too, doesn't mean much if your defenses holds the opponent to 14 points, if you can't score 15 then that great defense didn't do good enough.

your trying to explain a perfect case scenario to, we had a young and rising Rodgers, a pretty good RB situation, 3 very good receivers, and we just spent heavily rebuilding the defense for a new DC installing a 3-4 which already had a HOF CB and a safety on his way to being one, what should concern you is just how quickly that top 5 defense disappeared, a year later it was back out of the top 10 and the best year since was that 2015 group, just to hard to keep a defense top 5 or so, look at all the resources we threw at ours this last decade, your better off building a offense that can out score most others cause having a defense that can hold the best offenses to under 17 points is a act very few accomplish.

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 23:00

yes, I brought evidence of it a month or so back, in 018 or 019 the 3 best defenses in the league never even made the PO's, obviously some of the greatest defenses do win SB's, but those teams usually have a great offense too, doesn't mean much if your defenses holds the opponent to 14 points, if you can't score 15 then that great defense didn't do good enough.

Wow, really? I had no idea.

So... why have we been unable to go the distance without an elite defense, even with offenses that were at times as good or better than 2010?

Labrev wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 23:14

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 23:00

yes, I brought evidence of it a month or so back, in 018 or 019 the 3 best defenses in the league never even made the PO's, obviously some of the greatest defenses do win SB's, but those teams usually have a great offense too, doesn't mean much if your defenses holds the opponent to 14 points, if you can't score 15 then that great defense didn't do good enough.

Wow, really? I had no idea.

So... why have we been unable to go the distance without an elite defense, even with offenses that were at times as good or better than 2010?

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 22:15

Barry's stupid defensive schemes cost us probably 4 wins this season, I was waiting to see what Lafleur would do concerning Barry, and I'am not sure I put a lot of stock in what he said to the media, but a repeat of his stupidity again next year and both he and Lafleur should be fired, people complain about Rodgers and the offense, and rightly so, but that was mildly expected since the OL was a patchwork effort and the receiver group was even worse, the run game and this defense was relied on to carry this team, and both had production declines this year.

APB those stats don't show dropped passes, go rewatch that 2020 PO game, drops cost us that game, I'am sure you'd see some in those other PO games to, seem people here refuse to consider any reason for poor stats other then Rodgers is a lousy QB.

And what 4 games are these? I only see 2 games where the O scored more than 21 points (Giants and Eagles) and the Packers lost. And even the Giant's game there was plenty of blame for the O.

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 04:34

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 22:15

Barry's stupid defensive schemes cost us probably 4 wins this season, I was waiting to see what Lafleur would do concerning Barry, and I'am not sure I put a lot of stock in what he said to the media, but a repeat of his stupidity again next year and both he and Lafleur should be fired, people complain about Rodgers and the offense, and rightly so, but that was mildly expected since the OL was a patchwork effort and the receiver group was even worse, the run game and this defense was relied on to carry this team, and both had production declines this year.

APB those stats don't show dropped passes, go rewatch that 2020 PO game, drops cost us that game, I'am sure you'd see some in those other PO games to, seem people here refuse to consider any reason for poor stats other then Rodgers is a lousy QB.

And what 4 games are these? I only see 2 games where the O scored more than 21 points (Giants and Eagles) and the Packers lost. And even the Giant's game there was plenty of blame for the O.

Bingo. Some are underestimating how hard it is to play defense down after down when the O continues to put you in a bad spot. No complimentary football whatsoever this season. There are problems bigger than Barry.

Labrev wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 23:14

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 23:00

yes, I brought evidence of it a month or so back, in 018 or 019 the 3 best defenses in the league never even made the PO's, obviously some of the greatest defenses do win SB's, but those teams usually have a great offense too, doesn't mean much if your defenses holds the opponent to 14 points, if you can't score 15 then that great defense didn't do good enough.

Wow, really? I had no idea.

So... why have we been unable to go the distance without an elite defense, even with offenses that were at times as good or better than 2010?

never said we didn't need a better defense then we've had over the years, bottom 3rd of the league stopping the run, or some of the worst ST's units in the league. even as good as our offense has been some years it couldn't over come that.

we spent most of our draft resources on defense, and what do we have to show for it? what a waste, in the process, Guty wasted the last 5 years of a HOF QB's career, bravo, people that support this &%$@ are getting there just deserts.

Lupe had a point, it's been a real &%$@ show

Drj820 wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 06:36

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 04:34

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 22:15

Barry's stupid defensive schemes cost us probably 4 wins this season, I was waiting to see what Lafleur would do concerning Barry, and I'am not sure I put a lot of stock in what he said to the media, but a repeat of his stupidity again next year and both he and Lafleur should be fired, people complain about Rodgers and the offense, and rightly so, but that was mildly expected since the OL was a patchwork effort and the receiver group was even worse, the run game and this defense was relied on to carry this team, and both had production declines this year.

APB those stats don't show dropped passes, go rewatch that 2020 PO game, drops cost us that game, I'am sure you'd see some in those other PO games to, seem people here refuse to consider any reason for poor stats other then Rodgers is a lousy QB.

And what 4 games are these? I only see 2 games where the O scored more than 21 points (Giants and Eagles) and the Packers lost. And even the Giant's game there was plenty of blame for the O.

Bingo. Some are underestimating how hard it is to play defense down after down when the O continues to put you in a bad spot. No complimentary football whatsoever this season. There are problems bigger than Barry.

right, the way Guty allowed this offense to degrade and stagnate with Adams as the only quality receiver put more stress on the defense when opponents could stop or limit our ability to run the ball, to think we could beat the better teams running the ball with great defense is the pipe dream, first, very few teams are able to accomplish it, if ya can't pass, most defenses can stop the run when they don't have to worry about the pass, we just witnessed that with our worst in the league run defense of ours, it's a passing league, and our GM limited our ability to do that, Bravo, the guy wasted the ability of a player he just paid a kings ransom to keep.

ya, there are problems bigger then Barry.

like some others though, I doubt anything will change

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 23:00

Labrev wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 22:41

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 22:34

actually we had a top 15 defense in 2015, actually top 12 I think.

Yeah and Top-15/Top-12 isn't elite.

So, like I said, not as good as 2010. Thank you for agreeing with me.

and actually the term defense wins championships is false, there is prove of that to

No.

yes, I brought evidence of it a month or so back, in 018 or 019 the 3 best defenses in the league never even made the PO's, obviously some of the greatest defenses do win SB's, but those teams usually have a great offense too, doesn't mean much if your defenses holds the opponent to 14 points, if you can't score 15 then that great defense didn't do good enough.

Keep exaggerating information there yoop.

2018 Top 3 Points Allwed Defenses

1. Chicago Bears - NFC North Champs
2. Baltimore Ravens - AFC North Champs
3. Tennessee Titans - 7-10

2018 SB was New England 13 and Rams 3.

New England ranked 7th and Rams 20th

But the real NFC Champs (New Orleans) was 14th


2019 Top 3 Points Allowed Defenses

1. New England - AFC East Champs
2. Buffalo - 10-6 Wildcard
3. Baltimore - AFC North Champs

2019 SB was KC Chiefs 31 and SF 20

KC ranked 7th and SF 8th in scoring defense.

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 06:46

Labrev wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 23:14

Yoop wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 23:00

yes, I brought evidence of it a month or so back, in 018 or 019 the 3 best defenses in the league never even made the PO's, obviously some of the greatest defenses do win SB's, but those teams usually have a great offense too, doesn't mean much if your defenses holds the opponent to 14 points, if you can't score 15 then that great defense didn't do good enough.

Wow, really? I had no idea.

So... why have we been unable to go the distance without an elite defense, even with offenses that were at times as good or better than 2010?

never said we didn't need a better defense then we've had over the years, bottom 3rd of the league stopping the run, or some of the worst ST's units in the league. even as good as our offense has been some years it couldn't over come that.

we spent most of our draft resources on defense, and what do we have to show for it? what a waste, in the process, Guty wasted the last 5 years of a HOF QB's career, bravo, people that support this &%$@ are getting there just deserts.

Lupe had a point, it's been a real &%$@ show

One draft invested in the offense and it went to an entire crop of backup players and we wonder why they were terrible.

I new you would bring stats to prove me wrong, but did you? I may have been off a little, but again those quality defenses had to also have a potent offense in order to win.

balance is what gets the Lombardi, I think fans are enamored with the great defenses over the years, the hitting and ferociousness gets the male juices flowing, it's our nature to love the physical aspect of the game, heres more on that.


3 reasons defense doesn’t win football championships


Football stats prove differently

Contrary to what might be believed, a deep look into statistics proves defense doesn`t win NFL championships, at least not more than offense does. In 2012, Moskowitz and Wertheim, authors of “Scorecasting: The Hidden Influences behind How Sports Are Played and Games Are Won,” analyzed data from 45 Super Bowls.

A worn claim by the defense advocates is that the top-ranked defense during the regular NFL football season has won 15 Super Bowls, whereas the top-ranked offense has won only eight. Moskowitz and Wertheim’s deeper look into statistics contradicts this claim. They assert that 38 out of 45 Super Bowls have been won by a top 10 defense and 22 have been won by a top 3 defense. Meanwhile, 38 Super Bowls have been won by a top 10 offense and 20 were won by a top 3 offense. So, if you widen the sample size, the differences are marginal, if they even exist.



The NFL’s changes favor offense

The NFL is always evolving. During the past decade, there has been a shift in the league that favors the offense. Rules have changed that mostly favor offense. For example, with the Concussion Protocol, the ban of hitting a quarterback helmet-to-helmet, and of the “horse-collar tackle,” offense numbers are high.

This trend is reflected in recent NFL seasons, which have been dominated by quarterbacks and passing offenses. The ball flies more, and apart from Super Bowl 50, recent seasons were dominated by offenses and specifically by Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Patrick Mahomes. Defense might have won football championships decades ago, but it doesn’t anymore.



Defense is glorified because the influence of offense is obvious

Historic NFL teams with great defense, like the 1984 Chicago Bears or the 2015 Denver Broncos, are rare and therefore more memorable than teams with great offense. They demonstrate and validate the virtues of defense, which are often overlooked. This brings many sports figures (from players to commentators) to glorify defense and to believe that it wins NFL championships. While great defense has won championships for certain NFL teams, it doesn’t mean that defense always leads to championship victories. The main difference is that because the importance of offense in football is obvious, it isn’t as glorified as defense. But this doesn’t mean that offense doesn’t win championships or that defense more often wins championships.

https://www.theperspective.com/debates/ ... %20offense.

this article also has 3 reasons supporting that defense does win Championships, again ya need both sides to be good.

I don't know where I found the info claiming the 3 best defenses didn't make the PO's maybe I remembered the years wrong, point is without the ability to score points even the best defense wont get a team far.

APB wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 20:49

This one is for @Yoop, only because I haven’t seen Rodgers’ play defended quite enough…

Yeah. Colin Cowherd was all over this too.

Time to move on folks! Rodgers isn’t making it happen.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 07:47

Yoop wrote: ↑

10 Jan 2023 06:46

Labrev wrote: ↑

09 Jan 2023 23:14

Wow, really? I had no idea.

So... why have we been unable to go the distance without an elite defense, even with offenses that were at times as good or better than 2010?

never said we didn't need a better defense then we've had over the years, bottom 3rd of the league stopping the run, or some of the worst ST's units in the league. even as good as our offense has been some years it couldn't over come that.

we spent most of our draft resources on defense, and what do we have to show for it? what a waste, in the process, Guty wasted the last 5 years of a HOF QB's career, bravo, people that support this &%$@ are getting there just deserts.

Lupe had a point, it's been a real &%$@ show

One draft invested in the offense and it went to an entire crop of backup players and we wonder why they were terrible.

ya, well, ya know it was all Rodgers fault, right?

for near a decade our major resources where squandered trying to build a defense that could win Championships, while Rodgers and our offensive coaches where given the left overs, what we got for that was rooting for some other team in the play offs
like you said, everyone from Murphy on down should be held accountable for this, rather people here will blame the QB and defend those bumbling fools.