Yeah I'm done with LaFleur. I got talked out of calling for his head earlier, and I do see him as a good coach in certain respects, but he's not the man for the job anymore.
MLF was a great choice in 2019, where the job was to rejuvenate a stagnant Rodgers, and there was a short window of opportunity (2020-21) where we may have been able to go the distance with him + Adams. Didn't work out. It is what it is. That window has slammed shut. Now this thing is in *desperate* need of a rebuild but LaFleur is stuck in the 2019-2021 model.
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The only team that can go the distance with Rodgers is a team like Denver pre-Peyton Manning, a team that built the best roster you can possibly build without having to pay for an elite (or even good) QB that is SO good that they can drag their washed-up, glorified game-manager QB across the finish line. If the game is put on Rodgers's shoulders, he will choke it away, 10 times out of 10, even if he has the best WR in the league on his team like in 2020.
Rodgers doesn't even want it that much. He just said two days ago that if he walked away from the game now, he'd have no regrets. Straight from the horse's mouth: he's content with only 1 ring. In stark contrast to Brady, who keeps coming back because he wants yet another.
Gotta tell ya, I'm feeling pretty Doomer from what I've heard of MLF's press conference. He still seems to be in the "run it back" mindset.
"Run it back" to what, Matt? We did that last season, and finished worse, getting eliminated one round earlier. We did it this season, did not even clinch the wildcard.
You keep trying to "run it back" and it's been trending in the wrong direction.
They think they are just a few players away. They're not. There is serious systemic rot in the org.
Lafleur just wants to beg Rodgers back. He can figure the rest of it out from there. You can tell hes terrified to go into the deep waters without his buddy 12.
do you think thats unique to Lafleur, coaches by nature are leery of rocking the boat, change to them is a four letter word, what about McCarthyism did you miss
he continued to use iso vertical routes long after his deep threat receivers where gone, coaches tend to be stubborn minded type people.
Yeah I'm done with LaFleur. I got talked out of calling for his head earlier, and I do see him as a good coach in certain respects, but he's not the man for the job anymore.
MLF was a great choice in 2019, where the job was to rejuvenate a stagnant Rodgers, and there was a short window of opportunity (2020-21) where we may have been able to go the distance with him + Adams. Didn't work out. It is what it is. That window has slammed shut. Now this thing is in *desperate* need of a rebuild but LaFleur is stuck in the 2019-2021 model.
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The only team that can go the distance with Rodgers is a team like Denver pre-Peyton Manning, a team that built the best roster you can possibly build without having to pay for an elite (or even good) QB that is SO good that they can drag their washed-up, glorified game-manager QB across the finish line. If the game is put on Rodgers's shoulders, he will choke it away, 10 times out of 10, even if he has the best WR in the league on his team like in 2020.
Rodgers doesn't even want it that much. He just said two days ago that if he walked away from the game now, he'd have no regrets. Straight from the horse's mouth: he's content with only 1 ring. In stark contrast to Brady, who keeps coming back because he wants yet another.
I am in the same boat. I am fine sticking with the MLF system but if I see the Packers organization once again try and "piece it together" for another run, I too will be in the "done with MLF" camp.
Matt's hire as a coach was two pronged:
1. Revitalize Rodgers's career. I have to give him an A for that. Definitely had a hiccup in the postseasons but an A overall.
2. Develop the team after Rodgers. If he doesn't want to have life beyond Rodgers at this point...I'm done.
We should have moved on last year. It is now blatantly obvious this year. We have to move on.
Gotta tell ya, I'm feeling pretty Doomer from what I've heard of MLF's press conference. He still seems to be in the "run it back" mindset.
"Run it back" to what, Matt? We did that last season, and finished worse, getting eliminated one round earlier. We did it this season, did not even clinch the wildcard.
You keep trying to "run it back" and it's been trending in the wrong direction.
They think they are just a few players away. They're not. There is serious systemic rot in the org.
Lafleur just wants to beg Rodgers back. He can figure the rest of it out from there. You can tell hes terrified to go into the deep waters without his buddy 12.
do you think thats unique to Lafleur, coaches by nature are leery of rocking the boat, change to them is a four letter word, what about McCarthyism did you miss
Pete Carroll was thrilled to get a haul of picks for russ wilson and go it alone without him. He even made the playoffs this year.
Lafleur just wants to beg Rodgers back. He can figure the rest of it out from there. You can tell hes terrified to go into the deep waters without his buddy 12.
do you think thats unique to Lafleur, coaches by nature are leery of rocking the boat, change to them is a four letter word, what about McCarthyism did you miss
Pete Carroll was thrilled to get a haul of picks for russ wilson and go it alone without him. He even made the playoffs this year.
first I'am fine with firing everyone from Murphy on down, as I said prior, Murphy didn't need to give Rodgers the contract in the off season after the 2017 season, he still had 2 years on the previous contract, imho that was shut up money, or please don't ask for a trade money, Rodgers was upset back then, beyond obvious to anyone not defending this FO, the lack of receiver talent had crippled the ability of McCarthy's deep zone passing schemes to work, which boiled over the following season, with out any real short passing scheme other then slants or the behind the los stacked receiver sets Rodgers was forced to scramble and extend plays for receiver to separate and clear.
Rodgers stayed, the rest is the history of Rodgers making Adams his number one read and throwing the ball to him rather then trusting a guy like MVS and other with a drop rate near equal to there reception count and gained MVP honors doing it, but at the cost of winning PO games do to lack of skill position talent imo the insanity of not providing Rodgers with more talented receivers should cost these guys there jobs, but imo Lafleur isn't to blame as much as those above him.
Yeah I'm done with LaFleur. I got talked out of calling for his head earlier, and I do see him as a good coach in certain respects, but he's not the man for the job anymore.
MLF was a great choice in 2019, where the job was to rejuvenate a stagnant Rodgers, and there was a short window of opportunity (2020-21) where we may have been able to go the distance with him + Adams. Didn't work out. It is what it is. That window has slammed shut. Now this thing is in *desperate* need of a rebuild but LaFleur is stuck in the 2019-2021 model.
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The only team that can go the distance with Rodgers is a team like Denver pre-Peyton Manning, a team that built the best roster you can possibly build without having to pay for an elite (or even good) QB that is SO good that they can drag their washed-up, glorified game-manager QB across the finish line. If the game is put on Rodgers's shoulders, he will choke it away, 10 times out of 10, even if he has the best WR in the league on his team like in 2020.
Rodgers doesn't even want it that much. He just said two days ago that if he walked away from the game now, he'd have no regrets. Straight from the horse's mouth: he's content with only 1 ring. In stark contrast to Brady, who keeps coming back because he wants yet another.
Labrev, I agree with the top half of your post but I disagree with what you say about Rodgers. I don't think he needs a loaded roster in order to win. Think about the Miami game. Our defense was able to force a couple of turnovers. By objective NFL standards, it was a very good defensive performance. To many of us Packers fans who've long been deprived of anything resembling a very good defense, it looked like snow in the Sahara.
I think that most QB's and their offenses are able to rely on their defense to be able to produce a turnover or two per game. That performance we saw in Miami wouldn't be an anomaly for a Tom Brady-led team. I don't have the numbers to back it up, but I feel like I could count on one hand the number of times our defense forced 2+ turnovers this season, or over the past 2 seasons for that matter.
It's been said many times, but I really believe that if Rodgers had anything close to a reliable, consistent defense, he'd have more rings, and he'd still contend for a Super Bowl.
Yeah I'm done with LaFleur. I got talked out of calling for his head earlier, and I do see him as a good coach in certain respects, but he's not the man for the job anymore.
MLF was a great choice in 2019, where the job was to rejuvenate a stagnant Rodgers, and there was a short window of opportunity (2020-21) where we may have been able to go the distance with him + Adams. Didn't work out. It is what it is. That window has slammed shut. Now this thing is in *desperate* need of a rebuild but LaFleur is stuck in the 2019-2021 model.
----------
The only team that can go the distance with Rodgers is a team like Denver pre-Peyton Manning, a team that built the best roster you can possibly build without having to pay for an elite (or even good) QB that is SO good that they can drag their washed-up, glorified game-manager QB across the finish line. If the game is put on Rodgers's shoulders, he will choke it away, 10 times out of 10, even if he has the best WR in the league on his team like in 2020.
Rodgers doesn't even want it that much. He just said two days ago that if he walked away from the game now, he'd have no regrets. Straight from the horse's mouth: he's content with only 1 ring. In stark contrast to Brady, who keeps coming back because he wants yet another.
Labrev, I agree with the top half of your post but I disagree with what you say about Rodgers. I don't think he needs a loaded roster in order to win. Think about the Miami game. Our defense was able to force a couple of turnovers. By objective NFL standards, it was a very good defensive performance. To many of us Packers fans who've long been deprived of anything resembling a very good defense, it looked like snow in the Sahara.
I think that most QB's and their offenses are able to rely on their defense to be able to produce a turnover or two per game. That performance we saw in Miami wouldn't be an anomaly for a Tom Brady-led team. I don't have the numbers to back it up, but I feel like I could count on one hand the number of times our defense forced 2+ turnovers this season, or over the past 2 seasons for that matter.
It's been said many times, but I really believe that if Rodgers had anything close to a reliable, consistent defense, he'd have more rings, and he'd still contend for a Super Bowl.
well said Ben, you explained that better then I've been trying to, our defense over the years has made it much harder for this offense to win games, specially so against teams with better defenses.
this season to many things didn't click on offense, first the inconsistent ability of the OL then the lack of experience at WR, I feel confident to say if Adams had still been on this team we'd have a few more wins, and probably be playing next week.
Yup. And isn’t that the same thing that has happened in recent Januaries? It isn’t all Aaron Rodgers doing less, of course. The OLine is a problem in January too.
So, what does that mean? I think we have several months to discuss. Lol.
Yeah I'm done with LaFleur. I got talked out of calling for his head earlier, and I do see him as a good coach in certain respects, but he's not the man for the job anymore.
MLF was a great choice in 2019, where the job was to rejuvenate a stagnant Rodgers, and there was a short window of opportunity (2020-21) where we may have been able to go the distance with him + Adams. Didn't work out. It is what it is. That window has slammed shut. Now this thing is in *desperate* need of a rebuild but LaFleur is stuck in the 2019-2021 model.
----------
The only team that can go the distance with Rodgers is a team like Denver pre-Peyton Manning, a team that built the best roster you can possibly build without having to pay for an elite (or even good) QB that is SO good that they can drag their washed-up, glorified game-manager QB across the finish line. If the game is put on Rodgers's shoulders, he will choke it away, 10 times out of 10, even if he has the best WR in the league on his team like in 2020.
Rodgers doesn't even want it that much. He just said two days ago that if he walked away from the game now, he'd have no regrets. Straight from the horse's mouth: he's content with only 1 ring. In stark contrast to Brady, who keeps coming back because he wants yet another.
Labrev, I agree with the top half of your post but I disagree with what you say about Rodgers. I don't think he needs a loaded roster in order to win. Think about the Miami game. Our defense was able to force a couple of turnovers. By objective NFL standards, it was a very good defensive performance. To many of us Packers fans who've long been deprived of anything resembling a very good defense, it looked like snow in the Sahara.
I think that most QB's and their offenses are able to rely on their defense to be able to produce a turnover or two per game. That performance we saw in Miami wouldn't be an anomaly for a Tom Brady-led team. I don't have the numbers to back it up, but I feel like I could count on one hand the number of times our defense forced 2+ turnovers this season, or over the past 2 seasons for that matter.
It's been said many times, but I really believe that if Rodgers had anything close to a reliable, consistent defense, he'd have more rings, and he'd still contend for a Super Bowl.
Agreed, that's why I hate the idea of bringing both Rodgers and Barry back together even though I don't think Barry is all that bad. If we want to win with Rodgers, this D has to look more like it did @MIA or v.MIN than v.DET.
Re: Green Bay Packers News 2022
Posted: 10 Jan 2023 13:21
by Labrev
I mean, I really think a QB being paid not just like the best player today but the best player EVER... should be able to lead us to score 21 points at home against the -worst defense- in the league without needing WRs that get 10 yards of separation and OL that give him 10 seconds to throw, or else we shouldn't be paying him like he can, but... here we are.
Re: Green Bay Packers News 2022
Posted: 10 Jan 2023 13:25
by Scott4Pack
I’ve thought about this now for an entire day. Lol.
I’m in favor of letting go of MLF. I do think he’s a good coach. But maybe he’s more suited to be a OC. It seems, despite everything else, that the discipline and motivation of this team was sub-par. And I mean that prior to this week and this year too. For four consecutive Januaries, the Packers have been out coached and outplayed in a big way. That speaks to my decision more than anything else.
I mean, I really think a QB being paid not just like the best player today but the best player EVER... should be able to lead us to score 21 points at home against the -worst defense- in the league without needing WRs that get 10 yards of separation and OL that give him 10 seconds to throw, or else we shouldn't be paying him like he can, but... here we are.
Yeah. We were 11th in takeaways in 2022. 8th in takeaways in 2021.
Since the SB, the Packers have lost 9 playoff games.
Of that, 4 playoff losses (2013, 2014, 2015, 2021) were in games where the opposing team was held to 22 points or less at the end of regulation.
As for turnovers, the Packers defense has provided more turnovers than we lost in the following games:
So 4 of the 9 playoff losses where the opposing team was held to 22 or less at end of 4 quarters and 5 of the 9 playoff losses where turnovers were even or Packers advantage.
I mean, I really think a QB being paid not just like the best player today but the best player EVER... should be able to lead us to score 21 points at home against the -worst defense- in the league without needing WRs that get 10 yards of separation and OL that give him 10 seconds to throw, or else we shouldn't be paying him like he can, but... here we are.
you keep bringing money into this, and Money isn't the reason we've been losing play off games, the direction our GM has been drafting is, seriously why is that so hard to understand? when you don't bring in starter ability at WR it's bound to bite you in the ass eventually, we lost the only real talent at that position, and brought in rookies to take his place, say all you want about Watson or Doubs, both dropped a bunch of passes, both lost games to injury, both ran wrong routes.
also did Detroits defense appear the worst in the league Sunday, the DL kicked our OL's butt for 60 minutes, our RB's rarely made it to the los without being mauled, and our receiver rarely gained separation, and when they did they dropped passes.
If Rodgers wants to stay, the FO will most likely let him, why? because they do actually know why this offense struggled this year, and it wont revolve around his contract. your reaching
If Rodgers wants to stay, the FO will most likely let him, why? because they do actually know why this offense struggled this year, and it wont revolve around his contract. your reaching
also yoop: doubling-down on Rodgers at QB is smart because the FO (the one that I just said is stupid and don't know what they're doing) think it's a good idea.
Re: Green Bay Packers News 2022
Posted: 10 Jan 2023 14:56
by Labrev
I actually typed up a response to the other parts of yoop's post, but the sheer amount of words was vastly disproportionate to any worthwhile purpose of replying to it, and frankly kind of embarrassing for doing at all let alone showing everyone.
Yeah I'm done with LaFleur. I got talked out of calling for his head earlier, and I do see him as a good coach in certain respects, but he's not the man for the job anymore.
MLF was a great choice in 2019, where the job was to rejuvenate a stagnant Rodgers, and there was a short window of opportunity (2020-21) where we may have been able to go the distance with him + Adams. Didn't work out. It is what it is. That window has slammed shut. Now this thing is in *desperate* need of a rebuild but LaFleur is stuck in the 2019-2021 model.
----------
The only team that can go the distance with Rodgers is a team like Denver pre-Peyton Manning, a team that built the best roster you can possibly build without having to pay for an elite (or even good) QB that is SO good that they can drag their washed-up, glorified game-manager QB across the finish line. If the game is put on Rodgers's shoulders, he will choke it away, 10 times out of 10, even if he has the best WR in the league on his team like in 2020.
Rodgers doesn't even want it that much. He just said two days ago that if he walked away from the game now, he'd have no regrets. Straight from the horse's mouth: he's content with only 1 ring. In stark contrast to Brady, who keeps coming back because he wants yet another.
Labrev, I agree with the top half of your post but I disagree with what you say about Rodgers. I don't think he needs a loaded roster in order to win. Think about the Miami game. Our defense was able to force a couple of turnovers. By objective NFL standards, it was a very good defensive performance. To many of us Packers fans who've long been deprived of anything resembling a very good defense, it looked like snow in the Sahara.
I think that most QB's and their offenses are able to rely on their defense to be able to produce a turnover or two per game. That performance we saw in Miami wouldn't be an anomaly for a Tom Brady-led team. I don't have the numbers to back it up, but I feel like I could count on one hand the number of times our defense forced 2+ turnovers this season, or over the past 2 seasons for that matter.
It's been said many times, but I really believe that if Rodgers had anything close to a reliable, consistent defense, he'd have more rings, and he'd still contend for a Super Bowl.
well said Ben, you explained that better then I've been trying to, our defense over the years has made it much harder for this offense to win games, specially so against teams with better defenses.
this season to many things didn't click on offense, first the inconsistent ability of the OL then the lack of experience at WR, I feel confident to say if Adams had still been on this team we'd have a few more wins, and probably be playing next week.
Agree. I also think that he was not given enough credit for playing through injury. He played half the season with a broken thumb. When Favre did the same in 2004 (?), we heard every week about how durable he was and how admirable it was that he was playing with a broken thumb. With Aaron it was kind of an asterisk at the bottom of the page- "oh by the way he broke his thumb against NYG and has been playing with it ever since."
