Packers Huddle

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 22:28

go pak go wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 20:43

lol.

Rodgers had 2.5 seconds to get the ball off AFTER he reached the back of his 3 step drop. Get real people.

Division II college quarterbacks get graded harder than Rodgers by his ardent supporters. Like what is being said doesn't make any sense. 3rd read? It is 3 slants all converging in the middle of the field (just different depths). You can and should be able to see all three players in your periphery and if you have any idea how to read a defense...you will know Wilson will become wide open with the easiest of throwing lanes.

It blows my mind a quarterback that good and that smart has such a problem making that play.

Honestly it doesn't get more basic and fundamentally true than this post.

2.5 seconds from SNAP to release is a quick pass. 2.5 seconds from the back of your drop to release is an eternity in the NFL. This is exactly what we're trying to say. You can nitpick it all you want, but Rodgers had probably 4-6 seconds from the snap to execute a 3-step drop and decided to hold the ball and try to bail from the pocket.

That's a bad play, no matter what else happens.

no where close to that time, and there was no drop back or 3 step drop, he was in shotgun Yoho, and whether he changed out of a called play or not, we don't know, least Saleh to my knowledge never said it, whatever several camera angle show him looking to the right as soon as the ball is snapped, and by the time he looks left ( about a 2 count) Floyd had already jumped over the chop block and was barreling down on Rodgers.

while you claim he should have dirted it, thats not Rodgers M O, he tried his classic spin out but Floyd was to quick, now I hav't not seen a timed clock of snap to sack, but my guess is a 3 count, maybe a tad more.

Rodgers did this same stunt with us many times, and pulled it off on most of time, because our tackles don't punk out doing chop blocks, just maybe the Jets coaches should have listened.

APB wrote: ↑

13 Sep 2023 11:57

Gotta say, this thought occurred to me, as well...


Tweet

Rodgers has always been one tough sonofabitch

Yup, can't knock the guy's toughness.

Also, I hadn't seen that footage of Mac Jones. For an ankle sprain?? What a baby.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 22:28

go pak go wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2023 20:43

lol.

Rodgers had 2.5 seconds to get the ball off AFTER he reached the back of his 3 step drop. Get real people.

Division II college quarterbacks get graded harder than Rodgers by his ardent supporters. Like what is being said doesn't make any sense. 3rd read? It is 3 slants all converging in the middle of the field (just different depths). You can and should be able to see all three players in your periphery and if you have any idea how to read a defense...you will know Wilson will become wide open with the easiest of throwing lanes.

It blows my mind a quarterback that good and that smart has such a problem making that play.

Honestly it doesn't get more basic and fundamentally true than this post.

2.5 seconds from SNAP to release is a quick pass. 2.5 seconds from the back of your drop to release is an eternity in the NFL. This is exactly what we're trying to say. You can nitpick it all you want, but Rodgers had probably 4-6 seconds from the snap to execute a 3-step drop and decided to hold the ball and try to bail from the pocket.

That's a bad play, no matter what else happens.

Turning down a short pass cost him the rest of his career and may have cost the Jets a playoff berth. Really bad play.

Sometimes I read these and wonder if my eyes are that bad or theirs. 6 seconds? Lol

musclestang wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 10:15

Sometimes I read these and wonder if my eyes are that bad or theirs. 6 seconds? Lol

Again you’re nitpicking details on this one play. I said probably 4-6 seconds based on the fact that it’s easily 2.5 seconds from his plant foot hitting.

And Mike pointed out it was shotgun not a “drop”

But look. You want to nitpick the details, let’s roll.

The ball is snapped somewhere after 11:41 on the clock, as it rolls to 11:40.

He takes the snap at the 39.

He takes 2-3 steps to get into throwing position with his front foot on the 37 and back foot at the 36. There is 11:39 on the clock—1 to 1.5 seconds.

From there, he moves through his reads and sorta posts the ball or shuffles.

When he breaks to spin away from Floyd, the clock reads 11:37. So we’re at 4 seconds from the snap. And as GoPackGo said, 2.5 seconds from when his plant foot hit throwing position.

PFF specifically stated the sack was credited to Rodgers for holding the ball too long.

The average time from snap to throw/pressure in the NFL was around 2.7/2.8 seconds last year.

And this play is simply one play emblematic off a greater issue we’ve documented at length. Rodgers takes sacks. Rodgers holds the ball. Rodgers avoids the middle of the field. He does all of those things at higher levels than most QBs and definitely below the elite standards of the rest of his game play. These are all things within the QB’s control that he could and should have adjusted as he got older and his injuries added up and high-level mobility declined to average mobility.

And these are all things that careful viewers of Rodgers have been aware of for years, and which played *a factor* in this one play.

The details are so much less important than the general observation that Rodgers held the ball, didn’t pull the trigger on a player over the middle, and took a sack. All things that have been flaws in his later career. And those things contributed to a play that, yes, in a bit of a fluke, ended his season as fast as it began.

What we’re saying is that this fluke is a fairly likely result of someone who tempted fate by trying to evade sacks and holding the ball too long as often as Rodgers does. And the fact that on this play, he had an opportunity to throw in rhythm and chose to attempt to extend the play is a typical Rodgers move that has brought down his game more than it has enhanced it in the latter stages of his career.

I remember a spin out and roll left setting up a game winner against Dallas.

Don’t dance around Barry, just run…

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 10:56

But look. You want to nitpick the details, let’s roll.

The ball is snapped somewhere after 11:41 on the clock, as it rolls to 11:40.

He takes the snap at the 39.

He takes 2-3 steps to get into throwing position with his front foot on the 37 and back foot at the 36. There is 11:39 on the clock—1 to 1.5 seconds.

From there, he moves through his reads and sorta posts the ball or shuffles.

When he breaks to spin away from Floyd, the clock reads 11:37. So we’re at 4 seconds from the snap. And as GoPackGo said, 2.5 seconds from when his plant foot hit throwing position.

PFF specifically stated the sack was credited to Rodgers for holding the ball too long.

The average time from snap to throw/pressure in the NFL was around 2.7/2.8 seconds last year.

musclestang wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 11:00

I remember a spin out and roll left setting up a game winner against Dallas.

Don’t dance around Barry, just run…

Great example!

That was a play from 2016 in which we absolutely needed to get the ball downfield and out of bounds on that snap.

On a play such as that, taking a crosser to the middle of the field ends the game. Doing so would be dumb.

But 7 years later and multiple injuries older, on a standard series at the beginning of the game, when a quick pass was called and a cut block was the protection to his blind side, it is equally as stupid not to throw the ball within 3-4 seconds. You’re likely going to take an L

then by your account Yoho Rodgers changed the planned called play, I say that because as soon as he got the ball he was set up to throw right and looking right.

and by the time he turned to look at Wilson Floyd had already beaten the chop block and was coming hard, should Rodgers have just dirted it as you've said, or do the old moves that we are used to seeing, (the spin out)

again I'll repeat myself, Rodgers has done far less of that since Matt became the coach, but as you've said he's never really broken that habit, my point is that he never will, when a person has as much success doing something imho they will never completely give up doing it.

If he did in fact change the called play then ok, he was wrong, or wait he did that so much for us with success was it so wrong to expect the same success again?

I've agreed plenty that he needed to be more of just a pocket passer as he aged, but I loved the Rodgers that extended plays and made more of what the defense offered.

and he still did that well most of the time for Lafleur

If there really are people out there that somehow see no noticeable decline in Rodgers's athleticism, and want him at almost Age 40 to keep playing like Prime Rodgers until he can no longer keep playing that way, and I guess only then bother trying to have him just change his game overnight.... if the sack by Floyd is not enough to convince you of the "can no longer keep playing that way"-part, I shudder to imagine what it will take. Probably something as painful as watching Favre's last season as a pro.

Labrev wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 11:28

If there really are people out there that somehow see no noticeable decline in Rodgers's athleticism, and want him at almost Age 40 to keep playing like Prime Rodgers until he can no longer keep playing that way, and I guess only then bother trying to have him just change his game overnight.... if the sack by Floyd is not enough to convince you of the "can no longer keep playing that way"-part, I shudder to imagine what it will take. Probably something as painful as watching Favre's last season as a pro.

seriously, the reason Rodgers is hurt may be do to not being a robot, but the Jets coaches know full well that Rodgers was likely to change plays, doubt they ever said he couldn't, what could have happened here is the tackle didn't get the message, cause a chop block obviouslt didn't support the actions Rodgers took.

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 11:28

again I'll repeat myself, Rodgers has done far less of that since Matt became the coach, but as you've said he's never really broken that habit, my point is that he never will, when a person has as much success doing something imho they will never completely give up doing it.

You are correct about 2020. Rodgers really adjusted and played in rhythm virtually all season and he won the MVP playing that way. And that's why I was so disappointed to see him regress to taking sacks and playing slowly again after that.

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 11:28

then by your account Yoho Rodgers changed the planned called play, I say that because as soon as he got the ball he was set up to throw right and looking right.

Why would this mean he changed the play?

Bahahahahaha

Saleh said after the game that, on the play where Rodgers was injured, the 'play extended further than the timing of the play.'

https://theathletic.com/4861001/2023/09 ... cut-block/

Rodgers had expressed his distaste for plays involving offensive linemen cut-blocking at the line of scrimmage, multiple team sources said, because it forces Rodgers to get rid of the ball quickly rather than improvise, which he likes to do. The sources were granted anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss team matters publicly.

“There’s no chance to extend the play because the defensive lineman will get up quickly after the cut block,” said an assistant NFL coach from another team, who was granted anonymity to talk freely about the Jets’ play call. “If you cut, you’ve gotta throw it quick or get rid of the ball.”

Internally, the Jets coaching staff stands by the usage of cut blocks, even if they didn’t work according to plan on those first couple of plays. Jets coaches view the cut block as an effective technique to slow down the pass rush off the edge. They only use it sparingly, on plays that are expected to include a quick pass, to help the offensive tackles.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 11:43

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 11:28

again I'll repeat myself, Rodgers has done far less of that since Matt became the coach, but as you've said he's never really broken that habit, my point is that he never will, when a person has as much success doing something imho they will never completely give up doing it.

You are correct about 2020. Rodgers really adjusted and played in rhythm virtually all season and he won the MVP playing that way. And that's why I was so disappointed to see him regress to taking sacks and playing slowly again after that.

I thought he did it also in 2019, using 2022 Rodgers in disaray mostly do to blocking and lack of experience with receivers to say he reverted back to who he was in 2017, I think last year showed disfunction every where on the team, not just Rodgers, I never thought as so many did that Rodgers simply went from MVP to less then average as some suggest to be accurate.

not saying you as much as just a lot of people wanted Love to do great, Rodgers not so much, and now everything he does or did is picked apart.

to me the real screw up here is the jets, and that crazy chop blocking, if ya have a QB prone to changing and extending plays, why even do that stuff, doesn't even make sense.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 11:59

Bahahahahaha

Saleh said after the game that, on the play where Rodgers was injured, the 'play extended further than the timing of the play.'

https://theathletic.com/4861001/2023/09 ... cut-block/

Rodgers had expressed his distaste for plays involving offensive linemen cut-blocking at the line of scrimmage, multiple team sources said, because it forces Rodgers to get rid of the ball quickly rather than improvise, which he likes to do. The sources were granted anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss team matters publicly.

“There’s no chance to extend the play because the defensive lineman will get up quickly after the cut block,” said an assistant NFL coach from another team, who was granted anonymity to talk freely about the Jets’ play call. “If you cut, you’ve gotta throw it quick or get rid of the ball.”

Internally, the Jets coaching staff stands by the usage of cut blocks, even if they didn’t work according to plan on those first couple of plays. Jets coaches view the cut block as an effective technique to slow down the pass rush off the edge. They only use it sparingly, on plays that are expected to include a quick pass, to help the offensive tackles.

why would the Jets pay out what they did for a QB who is known to change plays at the LOS and is prone to extending plays with his feet, and then not listen to him concerning the use of chop blocks, not to defend Rodgers further ( who really cares at this point) but they new who he was, to continue to do stuff that is bound to be a issue for a QB like Rodgers is so lame.

you adjust to the talent, you don't ask the talent to adjust to something so crazy as chop blocks, if they actually worked to slow down a rusher everyone would be chop blocking.

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 12:16

why would the Jets pay out what they did for a QB who is known to change plays at the LOS and is prone to extending plays with his feet, and then not listen to him concerning the use of chop blocks, not to defend Rodgers further ( who really cares at this point) but they new who he was, to continue to do stuff that is bound to be a issue for a QB like Rodgers is so lame.

you adjust to the talent, you don't ask the talent to adjust to something so crazy as chop blocks, if they actually worked to slow down a rusher everyone would be chop blocking.

It's fair to say that the Jets should have known they were getting a guy who more often than not does what he wants and forces the coaches to adjust to him rather than making changes in his game.

But what we're saying is that the things Rodgers does HAVE to change--due to his advancing age and increasing tendency to get injured and declining athleticism. And that the fact that he has REFUSED to change has created a big flaw in his game. I posted sack rates compared to other aging elite QBs earlier in this thread to PROVE that Rodgers is taking significantly more sacks than they did. And sacks are bad. And you can't tell me that Brees and Brady didn't play well through their 30s or that they were "robots"

Older QBs adjust to the realities of the game and of their bodies. Rodgers' refusal to adjust created more sacks, more hits, more negative plays for him and for his team. And his refusal to execute a play as called, and to adhere to the mandate of getting rid of the ball quickly when a cut block is called, contributed to yet another sack. And that sack ended his season. And the chance of sustaining a season-ending injury on a sack goes up the more sacks you take. And Rodgers takes too many sacks.

It's so simple. We're pointing out a long-running detriment in his game that is fully within his control to change. You're saying "that detriment used to help him and he should never be expected to change."

That's fine. Don't change. Take sacks. Get injured. action==>consequence

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 12:16

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 11:59

Bahahahahaha

Saleh said after the game that, on the play where Rodgers was injured, the 'play extended further than the timing of the play.'

https://theathletic.com/4861001/2023/09 ... cut-block/

Rodgers had expressed his distaste for plays involving offensive linemen cut-blocking at the line of scrimmage, multiple team sources said, because it forces Rodgers to get rid of the ball quickly rather than improvise, which he likes to do. The sources were granted anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss team matters publicly.

“There’s no chance to extend the play because the defensive lineman will get up quickly after the cut block,” said an assistant NFL coach from another team, who was granted anonymity to talk freely about the Jets’ play call. “If you cut, you’ve gotta throw it quick or get rid of the ball.”

Internally, the Jets coaching staff stands by the usage of cut blocks, even if they didn’t work according to plan on those first couple of plays. Jets coaches view the cut block as an effective technique to slow down the pass rush off the edge. They only use it sparingly, on plays that are expected to include a quick pass, to help the offensive tackles.

why would the Jets pay out what they did for a QB who is known to change plays at the LOS and is prone to extending plays with his feet, and then not listen to him concerning the use of chop blocks, not to defend Rodgers further ( who really cares at this point) but they new who he was, to continue to do stuff that is bound to be a issue for a QB like Rodgers is so lame.

you adjust to the talent, you don't ask the talent to adjust to something so crazy as chop blocks, if they actually worked to slow down a rusher everyone would be chop blocking.

Because the coach is an idiot. You don't design plays and force your players to adjust, you design plays to take advantage of your player's best abilities.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

14 Sep 2023 12:23

It's so simple. We're pointing out a long-running detriment in his game that is fully within his control to change. You're saying "that detriment used to help him and he should never be expected to change."

That's fine. Don't change. Take sacks. Get injured. action==>consequence

The irony being that he has always been likely to take the extra second that leads to the sack, and he's been doing it for 15 years for the Packer and never got seriously hurt as a result. First time he tries it in New York, and bang. Gone for the season.

Yes, it's a fault. But it's also sheer bad luck. (Especially for the Jets and for Rodgers. Rather less so for the Packers!)