Black Monday

[go pak go]

Which one? Matt LaFleur or Vince Lombardi?

BOTH!


People say Jim Harbaugh "wins" where ever he goes, but he actually hasn't won anything... I always find that interesting.

He took a Stanford program that was &%$@ and turned it around.

He took a SF organization that was &%$@ and turned it around.

He just took MI to the playoff.

Harbaugh is a great coach. That he is a &%$@ person doesn't change that.

There is only one coach in the NFL with a better winning %. And that coach has the league MVP playing for him and hasn't gotten to a Super Bowl yet.

100% agree he is a good coach. He is definitely a good recruiter.

I just find it funny when people people say he just wins when he hasn't won anything of note. He isn't this exceptional coach that would have put Vikings on top the north for a decade.

In 2019 this forum was bashing MM and praising MLF so much saying, "MLF just knows how to win! He has that "it" factor" (whatever that means)

And I remembered just saying "wait. You will all find ways to bash MLF in due time. Just give him enough seasons"

And here we are with the same tired cliches "lights are too bright for him. Can't win the big game. yada yada yada."

[go pak go]

he aint won nothing either, if the definition is winning a SB, Harbaugh is a very good coach, get a real laugh out of people knocking Jim Harbaugh

why did you quote me?

Ghost Lombardi asked a question and I answered.

sorry just seemed disengenious since Matt needed Rodgers and near 3 perfect seasons to do it 2 with a MVP HOF QB

Or maybe Rodgers needed Matt?

[Pckfn23]

He took a Stanford program that was &%$@ and turned it around.

He took a SF organization that was &%$@ and turned it around.

He just took MI to the playoff.

Harbaugh is a great coach. That he is a &%$@ person doesn't change that.

There is only one coach in the NFL with a better winning %. And that coach has the league MVP playing for him and hasn't gotten to a Super Bowl yet.

100% agree he is a good coach. He is definitely a good recruiter.

I just find it funny when people people say he just wins when he hasn't won anything of note. He isn't this exceptional coach that would have put Vikings on top the north for a decade.

how can we know that he would fail as the Vikings coach? He took SF to a SB and Mich to the big ten champs, and Georgia would have probably beaten a half doz NFL last year.

Did I say I knew he would fail? My lord...

Georgia would have beat 6 NFL teams. Ha, what nonsense.

[Pckfn23]

He took a Stanford program that was &%$@ and turned it around.

He took a SF organization that was &%$@ and turned it around.

He just took MI to the playoff.

Harbaugh is a great coach. That he is a &%$@ person doesn't change that.

There is only one coach in the NFL with a better winning %. And that coach has the league MVP playing for him and hasn't gotten to a Super Bowl yet.

100% agree he is a good coach. He is definitely a good recruiter.

I just find it funny when people people say he just wins when he hasn't won anything of note. He isn't this exceptional coach that would have put Vikings on top the north for a decade.

In 2019 this forum was bashing MM and praising MLF so much saying, "MLF just knows how to win! He has that "it" factor" (whatever that means)

And I remembered just saying "wait. You will all find ways to bash MLF in due time. Just give him enough seasons"

And here we are with the same tired cliches "lights are too bright for him. Can't win the big game. yada yada yada."

Interestingly, it is the same people in both cases.

[Yoop]

I just find it funny when people people say he just wins when he hasn't won anything of note. He isn't this exceptional coach that would have put Vikings on top the north for a decade.

here is you claiming Harbaugh wouldn't be able to succedd in Minny.

[Pckfn23]

I just find it funny when people people say he just wins when he hasn't won anything of note. He isn't this exceptional coach that would have put Vikings on top the north for a decade.

here is you claiming Harbaugh wouldn't be able to succedd in Minny.

Nope, read it again... slowly...

[Yoop]

He took a Stanford program that was &%$@ and turned it around.

He took a SF organization that was &%$@ and turned it around.

He just took MI to the playoff.

Harbaugh is a great coach. That he is a &%$@ person doesn't change that.

There is only one coach in the NFL with a better winning %. And that coach has the league MVP playing for him and hasn't gotten to a Super Bowl yet.

100% agree he is a good coach. He is definitely a good recruiter.

I just find it funny when people people say he just wins when he hasn't won anything of note. He isn't this exceptional coach that would have put Vikings on top the north for a decade.

In 2019 this forum was bashing MM and praising MLF so much saying, "MLF just knows how to win! He has that "it" factor" (whatever that means)

And I remembered just saying "wait. You will all find ways to bash MLF in due time. Just give him enough seasons"

And here we are with the same tired cliches "lights are too bright for him. Can't win the big game. yada yada yada."

here we go with another "told ya so" blah blah blah, reality, Rodgers needed more coaching and help from Lafluer in that &%$@ loss to the Niners. lights did seem to bright.

[Yoop]

I just find it funny when people people say he just wins when he hasn't won anything of note. He isn't this exceptional coach that would have put Vikings on top the north for a decade.

here is you claiming Harbaugh wouldn't be able to succedd in Minny.

Nope, read it again... slowly...

same thing, top of the north is just a play on words, fact is you slammed him down as not a winning coach and he is one.

[Yoop]

100% agree he is a good coach. He is definitely a good recruiter.

I just find it funny when people people say he just wins when he hasn't won anything of note. He isn't this exceptional coach that would have put Vikings on top the north for a decade.

In 2019 this forum was bashing MM and praising MLF so much saying, "MLF just knows how to win! He has that "it" factor" (whatever that means)

And I remembered just saying "wait. You will all find ways to bash MLF in due time. Just give him enough seasons"

And here we are with the same tired cliches "lights are too bright for him. Can't win the big game. yada yada yada."

Interestingly, it is the same people in both cases.

I agree, it's the same ol HOMERS defending the same ol &%$@

[Pckfn23]

here is you claiming Harbaugh wouldn't be able to succedd in Minny.

Nope, read it again... slowly...

same thing, top of the north is just a play on words, fact is you slammed him down as not a winning coach and he is one.

Nope again, not the same thing, not a play on words. And I did not slam him for winning games. In fact, I didn't actually slam him at all. I slammed those that claim all he does is win as if he has won something of note, which he has not.

[go pak go]

100% agree he is a good coach. He is definitely a good recruiter.

I just find it funny when people people say he just wins when he hasn't won anything of note. He isn't this exceptional coach that would have put Vikings on top the north for a decade.

In 2019 this forum was bashing MM and praising MLF so much saying, "MLF just knows how to win! He has that "it" factor" (whatever that means)

And I remembered just saying "wait. You will all find ways to bash MLF in due time. Just give him enough seasons"

And here we are with the same tired cliches "lights are too bright for him. Can't win the big game. yada yada yada."

here we go with another "told ya so" blah blah blah, reality, Rodgers needed more coaching and help from Lafluer in that &%$@ loss to the Niners. lights did seem to bright.

Agreed. MLF is 0-2 for great opportunties. Honestly probably the last best opportunity he had at a ring. When the opportunities come, you need to take advantage and he fell short twice.

He was part of the losing effort. No doubt about it.

Now when comparing to Harbugh, MLF and Jim have the same thing in common. Both come up short in the big game.

[Yoop]

In 2019 this forum was bashing MM and praising MLF so much saying, "MLF just knows how to win! He has that "it" factor" (whatever that means)

And I remembered just saying "wait. You will all find ways to bash MLF in due time. Just give him enough seasons"

And here we are with the same tired cliches "lights are too bright for him. Can't win the big game. yada yada yada."

here we go with another "told ya so" blah blah blah, reality, Rodgers needed more coaching and help from Lafluer in that &%$@ loss to the Niners. lights did seem to bright.

Agreed. MLF is 0-2 for great opportunties. Honestly probably the last best opportunity he had at a ring. When the opportunities come, you need to take advantage and he fell short twice.

He was part of the losing effort. No doubt about it.

Now when comparing to Harbugh, MLF and Jim have the same thing in common. Both come up short in the big game.

obviously I feel Lafluer is a much better coach, but for people to rag on Harbaugh simply because they don't like him shouldn't extend to his ability as a teacher and coach.

Lafluer needs to be a better CEO, and this FO needs to allow him to be that, no more hagling over money to bring in quality assistents and cords, I don't like our chain of command, it has hampered our HC.

[Drj820]

In 2019 this forum was bashing MM and praising MLF so much saying, "MLF just knows how to win! He has that "it" factor" (whatever that means)

And I remembered just saying "wait. You will all find ways to bash MLF in due time. Just give him enough seasons"

And here we are with the same tired cliches "lights are too bright for him. Can't win the big game. yada yada yada."

here we go with another "told ya so" blah blah blah, reality, Rodgers needed more coaching and help from Lafluer in that &%$@ loss to the Niners. lights did seem to bright.

Agreed. MLF is 0-2 for great opportunties. Honestly probably the last best opportunity he had at a ring. When the opportunities come, you need to take advantage and he fell short twice.

He was part of the losing effort. No doubt about it.

Now when comparing to Harbugh, MLF and Jim have the same thing in common. Both come up short in the big game.

Except for that Harbough waited a little longer to choke than Lafleur did

Call a spade a spade

[go pak go]

here we go with another "told ya so" blah blah blah, reality, Rodgers needed more coaching and help from Lafluer in that &%$@ loss to the Niners. lights did seem to bright.

Agreed. MLF is 0-2 for great opportunties. Honestly probably the last best opportunity he had at a ring. When the opportunities come, you need to take advantage and he fell short twice.

He was part of the losing effort. No doubt about it.

Now when comparing to Harbugh, MLF and Jim have the same thing in common. Both come up short in the big game.

Except for that Harbough waited a little longer to choke than Lafleur did

Call a spade a spade

[Drj820]

There are definitely levels to this.

Making the playoffs as a coach
Winning the Division as a coach
Winning a playoff game as a coach
Winning the conference as a coach
Coaching in a super bowl
Winning the super bowl

Appearing in a super bowl with a marginal QB? pretty nice feather to have in the cap.
Better than say, not appearing in a super bowl with an MVP.

Im not hating on Lafleur in any way in this, and i feel like I am about to barf defending Harbough...but his thing is his act gets tired, hes sort of a clown, and the wheels eventually fall off.

For short periods of time he has had a tremendous amount of success. I would say I prefer him not in our division, as opposed to in it.

[go pak go]

There are definitely levels to this.

Making the playoffs as a coach
Winning the Division as a coach
Winning a playoff game as a coach
Winning the conference as a coach
Coaching in a super bowl
Winning the super bowl

Appearing in a super bowl with a marginal QB? pretty nice feather to have in the cap.
Better than say, not appearing in a super bowl with an MVP.

Im not hating on Lafleur in any way in this, and i feel like I am about to barf defending Harbough...but his thing is his act gets tired, hes sort of a clown, and the wheels eventually fall off.

For short periods of time he has had a tremendous amount of success. I would say I prefer him not in our division, as opposed to in it.

That actual new Vikings coach is also taking a DrJ patented "bum" or "marginal QB" to the Super Bowl.

[Drj820]

There are definitely levels to this.

Making the playoffs as a coach
Winning the Division as a coach
Winning a playoff game as a coach
Winning the conference as a coach
Coaching in a super bowl
Winning the super bowl

Appearing in a super bowl with a marginal QB? pretty nice feather to have in the cap.
Better than say, not appearing in a super bowl with an MVP.

Im not hating on Lafleur in any way in this, and i feel like I am about to barf defending Harbough...but his thing is his act gets tired, hes sort of a clown, and the wheels eventually fall off.

For short periods of time he has had a tremendous amount of success. I would say I prefer him not in our division, as opposed to in it.

That actual new Vikings coach is also taking a DrJ patented "bum" or "marginal QB" to the Super Bowl.

You’ve completely lost the plot if you think kaepernick and Stafford are on the same level, and if you can’t see how there are levels of success in the coaching world.

[go pak go]

There are definitely levels to this.

Making the playoffs as a coach
Winning the Division as a coach
Winning a playoff game as a coach
Winning the conference as a coach
Coaching in a super bowl
Winning the super bowl

Appearing in a super bowl with a marginal QB? pretty nice feather to have in the cap.
Better than say, not appearing in a super bowl with an MVP.

Im not hating on Lafleur in any way in this, and i feel like I am about to barf defending Harbough...but his thing is his act gets tired, hes sort of a clown, and the wheels eventually fall off.

For short periods of time he has had a tremendous amount of success. I would say I prefer him not in our division, as opposed to in it.

That actual new Vikings coach is also taking a DrJ patented "bum" or "marginal QB" to the Super Bowl.

You’ve completely lost the plot if you think kaepernick and Stafford are on the same level, and if you can’t see how there are levels of success in the coaching world.

Yeah I don't think that is fair. My stance on this board is pretty consistent in that I believe most top half franchises, players and coaches are all really, really good. I get made fun for it all the time. I have always respected Stafford's ability incredibly. Just as I have always respected the 49ers front 7 incredibly. It was honestly pretty rare for me to say someone is bad. Which is why I always said, "this team is really good" before games. (I was really on the 49ers and Cincy train earlier this season when we played them)

Having said all that, I believe you have lost the plot as well by discounting a young coach in O'Connel who is moving up and also just how effective, though short term, the running QB era was in the early 2010's before defenses started to better figure it out.

Running QBs catch lightening in a bottle for one or two years and then start gravitating toward the mean either due to injury or defenses figuring them out. Harbaugh caught Kaepernick in a bottle in 2012 with also a talent-loaded defense from sucking for a decade. If anything, Jim's 2011 season with Alex Smith and his brother beating Jim in the SB with an even more "average QB" Flacco was more impressive (though even that is stupid because the game was incredibly close and decided on a controversial call like all close games are)

Harbaugh absolutely deserves to be respected. He has earned that. I never said he doesn't deserve respect. His 2011 - 2013 season was amazing. But he isn't to be any more respected than other successful coaches, such as our own, who has seen similar success. What we know about Jim is he builds a strong program but hasn't reached the pinnacle at any of them. He fell short at Stanford (with college's best QB), fell short at SF and was honestly a disappointment in Anne Arbor until this year when they finally beat Ohio State...only to get embarrassed on the national stage.

Another thing we know about Harbaugh is he allowed this young and promising team in SF implode. His message fell flat on professional players really quickly. I honestly don't care if MN is going to be great in 2022 or 2023 because we won't be a threat to get what we want those years anyway (maybe 2022 we can be a slimmed down version of our 2021 and still have the fake hope we can do it)

Overall my largest standpoint is judging coaches on future success by and large is a folly endeavor period. Excluding the outliers, fans and media are really bad at it. And we are bad at it because every tenured coach has a history of really good things and bad things. Also, debates always seem to change depending on what point one wants to prove.

I respect Harbaugh as a professional. I really respect his brother. But I think an argument could easily be made that the former man in MN or current man in GB is just as qualified and respected as a coach. And the guy they are going to get also has tons of reasons to be excited as a MN fan as well.

What will be a big turning point for MN is if they get a cheaper, yet effective QB or if Cousins decides to stay in MN after next season but at a lower contract. They will be picking low in the draft again. If they use 2022 as a foundational building year, clear some cap for 2023 and get some CBs and finally figure out that Oline, this could be a team to contend with for a few years.

[Drj820]

That actual new Vikings coach is also taking a DrJ patented "bum" or "marginal QB" to the Super Bowl.

You’ve completely lost the plot if you think kaepernick and Stafford are on the same level, and if you can’t see how there are levels of success in the coaching world.

Having said all that, I believe you have lost the plot as well by discounting a young coach in O'Connel who is moving up and

I haven’t said one word of judgement on O’Connel though. I literally know nothing about him. I have no opinion at this point whether he will work out or not.

My plot was that Harbough brought a marginal QB to the SB in the amount of time that Lafleur failed to bring an MVP to the super bowl.

And I’m not saying that to bop Lafleur, I’m saying for the short term I’m sure Harbough may have brought some spark to minnesota.

[go pak go]

You’ve completely lost the plot if you think kaepernick and Stafford are on the same level, and if you can’t see how there are levels of success in the coaching world.

Having said all that, I believe you have lost the plot as well by discounting a young coach in O'Connel who is moving up and

I’m saying for the short term I’m sure Harbough may have brought some spark to minnesota.

Yes. I don't doubt he would. He wins everywhere he goes (Michigan can be argued either way)

MN has a lot to work with. They are like most teams in the NFL with a play here or there taking them from 10th best record in the conference to 3rd best record in the conference. A few bounces and a spark and they can be a very good football team.