Drj820 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2022 08:37
go pak go wrote: ↑05 Feb 2022 08:08
Drj820 wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022 19:55
There are definitely levels to this.
Making the playoffs as a coach
Winning the Division as a coach
Winning a playoff game as a coach
Winning the conference as a coach
Coaching in a super bowl
Winning the super bowl
Appearing in a super bowl with a marginal QB? pretty nice feather to have in the cap.
Better than say, not appearing in a super bowl with an MVP.
Im not hating on Lafleur in any way in this, and i feel like I am about to barf defending Harbough...but his thing is his act gets tired, hes sort of a clown, and the wheels eventually fall off.
For short periods of time he has had a tremendous amount of success. I would say I prefer him not in our division, as opposed to in it.
That actual new Vikings coach is also taking a DrJ patented "bum" or "marginal QB" to the Super Bowl.
You’ve completely lost the plot if you think kaepernick and Stafford are on the same level, and if you can’t see how there are levels of success in the coaching world.
Yeah I don't think that is fair. My stance on this board is pretty consistent in that I believe most top half franchises, players and coaches are all really, really good. I get made fun for it all the time. I have always respected Stafford's ability incredibly. Just as I have always respected the 49ers front 7 incredibly. It was honestly pretty rare for me to say someone is bad. Which is why I always said, "this team is really good" before games. (I was really on the 49ers and Cincy train earlier this season when we played them)
Having said all that, I believe you have lost the plot as well by discounting a young coach in O'Connel who is moving up and also just how effective, though short term, the running QB era was in the early 2010's before defenses started to better figure it out.
Running QBs catch lightening in a bottle for one or two years and then start gravitating toward the mean either due to injury or defenses figuring them out. Harbaugh caught Kaepernick in a bottle in 2012 with also a talent-loaded defense from sucking for a decade. If anything, Jim's 2011 season with Alex Smith and his brother beating Jim in the SB with an even more "average QB" Flacco was more impressive (though even that is stupid because the game was incredibly close and decided on a controversial call like all close games are)
Harbaugh absolutely deserves to be respected. He has earned that. I never said he doesn't deserve respect. His 2011 - 2013 season was amazing. But he isn't to be any more respected than other successful coaches, such as our own, who has seen similar success. What we know about Jim is he builds a strong program but hasn't reached the pinnacle at any of them. He fell short at Stanford (with college's best QB), fell short at SF and was honestly a disappointment in Anne Arbor until this year when they finally beat Ohio State...only to get embarrassed on the national stage.
Another thing we know about Harbaugh is he allowed this young and promising team in SF implode. His message fell flat on professional players really quickly. I honestly don't care if MN is going to be great in 2022 or 2023 because we won't be a threat to get what we want those years anyway (maybe 2022 we can be a slimmed down version of our 2021 and still have the fake hope we can do it)
Overall my largest standpoint is judging coaches on future success by and large is a folly endeavor period. Excluding the outliers, fans and media are really bad at it. And we are bad at it because every tenured coach has a history of really good things and bad things. Also, debates always seem to change depending on what point one wants to prove.
I respect Harbaugh as a professional. I really respect his brother. But I think an argument could easily be made that the former man in MN or current man in GB is just as qualified and respected as a coach. And the guy they are going to get also has tons of reasons to be excited as a MN fan as well.
What will be a big turning point for MN is if they get a cheaper, yet effective QB or if Cousins decides to stay in MN after next season but at a lower contract. They will be picking low in the draft again. If they use 2022 as a foundational building year, clear some cap for 2023 and get some CBs and finally figure out that Oline, this could be a team to contend with for a few years.
My lord...