Packers Huddle

paco wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 12:23

Yoop wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 12:10

Labrev wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 11:48

Belichick teams have the right idea: exploit matchups/weaknesses. Lowry is not a great run-defender straight up, smart move to run at him.

Every other coach gets so focused on how to win with their system, Belichick just figures out how to beat you.

Lowry is tied with Reed with 16 tackles, they lead our DT's, Clark has 15 tackles, so why people say Lowry is weak against the run doesn't make sense, it's the best tech he has, NE has a pretty good OL.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/n ... ay-packers

Tackles is not the best indicator of play good defense. We've had numerous defenders over the years get blasted by this forum and fans in general who put up big tackle numbers (Ha Ha and Hawk to name a couple). Doesn't mean you are tackling them where you should.

I'm a Lowry fan. But he has been getting pushed back far too often. He's either hot or cold it seems. Much credit to the Pat's O-line. But Lowry isn't quite cutting the mustard right now. Hope we see the light come on for Wyatt soon.

I think it's do to more two gaping myself Paco, and also the lack of holding calls, the refs are allowing hooking, which is basically holding without using the hands, I wish we'd play more base front ( 3dt, 2 OLB) we saw Wyatt get stuffed against doubles too a week ago.

hard for me to figure out why Barry would play that scheme against a rookie QB, our main concern should have been stopping the run, instead he goes all Dom Capers with the wide pre sets and two gaping our interior, NE has a quick OL and where taking Campbell and Walker walled off from the run gaps, at least thats how it looked to me.

Right now the Packers are 5th in yards and 7th in points.

But it is important to note we would actually be 3rd in points if you take away the 10 points that Aaron Rodgers has give away personally.

LombardiTime wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 11:53

Gonna be honest, of the issues I saw on defense yesterday, Rudy Ford in for Amos was not in my top 5.

And, FWIW PFF graded Ford out as the second best defensive player.

I was far more concerned by what I saw or did not see from pretty much the entire front 6-7, other than Gary of course.

While I chalk up the repeated gashing in the run D primarily to scheme, OLB 3-4 is, in my opinion, becoming an issue.

'Looked to me like the TD pass may have been on him (or Campbell) not picking up Parker, but I'll give the benefit-of-the-doubt to both since I'm not sure.

Ford may not have played badly but the Pats didn't have anyone at QB to really test him much. I will feel assured if he holds his own against someone competent at QB.

PFF is useful but best taken with a grain of salt.

Yoop wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 12:10

Lowry is tied with Reed with 16 tackles, they lead our DT's, Clark has 15 tackles, so why people say Lowry is weak against the run doesn't make sense, it's the best tech he has, NE has a pretty good OL.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/n ... ay-packers

Lowry is not weak against the run per-se, didn't mean to imply that, he's just way better suited to attack and penetrate against the run than hold blockers at the point-of-attack, least of all against double-teams (as that play aptly shows).

Lowry has been way better in Barry's scheme than Pettine's because he doesn't have to two-gap as much. All I meant was, Belichick and Patricia figured out how to play to his weakness... just good coaching by one of the best to ever.

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 15:00

Right now the Packers are 5th in yards and 7th in points.

But it is important to note we would actually be 3rd in points if you take away the 10 points that Aaron Rodgers has give away personally.

So a pick 6 committed by a team's QB will count against his teams "scoring defense" stat?

Captain_Ben wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 17:00

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 15:00

Right now the Packers are 5th in yards and 7th in points.

But it is important to note we would actually be 3rd in points if you take away the 10 points that Aaron Rodgers has give away personally.

So a pick 6 committed by a team's QB will count against his teams "scoring defense" stat?

Yes

Captain_Ben wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 17:00

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 15:00

Right now the Packers are 5th in yards and 7th in points.

But it is important to note we would actually be 3rd in points if you take away the 10 points that Aaron Rodgers has give away personally.

So a pick 6 committed by a team's QB will count against his teams "scoring defense" stat?

Yes, there are places that will take out defensive and ST TD’s from the numbers, but it is rare.

But if you think as it as simple a teams points allowed stat, it makes sense too.

Captain_Ben wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 17:00

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 15:00

Right now the Packers are 5th in yards and 7th in points.

But it is important to note we would actually be 3rd in points if you take away the 10 points that Aaron Rodgers has give away personally.

So a pick 6 committed by a team's QB will count against his teams "scoring defense" stat?

It does officially yes.

72 points have been scored on the Packers this year which includes all points (the pick 6 and the fumble in MN territory where MN got 3 points even after the Packers made them lose yards on that drive)

Nice stats. But also must remember the one good offense we have played smoked us. We should absolutely have some of the best defensive stats in the league considering after week one we have played the bears putrid O, the Bucs with all their playmakers dead, and finally the pats with their 3rd string qb.

Just saying I think the defense is doing fine overall, but im Ñot making judgements yet until we play a couple more teams with capable offenses. Giants and Jets next two weeks won’t move the needle for me either.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 21:15

Nice stats. But also must remember the one good offense we have played smoked us. We should absolutely have some of the best defensive stats in the league considering after week one we have played the bears putrid O, the Bucs with all their playmakers dead, and finally the pats with their 3rd string qb.

Just saying I think the defense is doing fine overall, but im Ñot making judgements yet until we play a couple more teams with capable offenses. Giants and Jets next two weeks won’t move the needle for me either.

I generally am a data guy and don't get too much in the feels sides of things.

So all I did was state stats.

1. it is remarkable overall how low offensive production the league is in. 18 points allowed and being 7th in the league is crazy. Normally that is top 3 level.

2. "the only good offense we have played smoked us...." that offense scored 20 on us when you take away the Vikings starting a possession in FG range, losing yards and still making the long kick to get to 23.

Seriously. Not one offense has put up more than 20 points on this defense. I wouldn't ever consider that smoking us.

Ever.

I will agree we have 1 or two drives each game that are mind boggling how we let the opponent do that to us in a game...but that's the thing. It's seriously only 1 to 2 drives a game this happens. And that has been the consistent line for the first four games.

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 21:46

Drj820 wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 21:15

Nice stats. But also must remember the one good offense we have played smoked us. We should absolutely have some of the best defensive stats in the league considering after week one we have played the bears putrid O, the Bucs with all their playmakers dead, and finally the pats with their 3rd string qb.

Just saying I think the defense is doing fine overall, but im Ñot making judgements yet until we play a couple more teams with capable offenses. Giants and Jets next two weeks won’t move the needle for me either.

I generally am a data guy and don't get too much in the feels sides of things.

So all I did was state stats.

1. it is remarkable overall how low offensive production the league is in. 18 points allowed and being 7th in the league is crazy. Normally that is top 3 level.

2. "the only good offense we have played smoked us...." that offense scored 20 on us when you take away the Vikings starting a possession in FG range, losing yards and still making the long kick to get to 23.

Seriously. Not one offense has put up more than 20 points on this defense. I wouldn't ever consider that smoking us.

Ever.

I will agree we have 1 or two drives each game that are mind boggling how we let the opponent do that to us in a game...but that's the thing. It's seriously only 1 to 2 drives a game this happens. And that has been the consistent line for the first four games.

I like our defense and am not implying they’ve done poorly. Just saying I haven’t seen enough “data” to make a judgement on whether they are over or under achieving yet.

But also not sure you can marry yourself to the data and then offer several caveats about how the data is skewed due to cheap points opponents scored. If we can offer those caveats to the data then I feel fine pointing out the offenses we have faced off against this season.

Also I can assure you the other teams in those rankings have forfeited cheap points too

Decent amount of kvetching around the internet for a D that did this:

No caveats: 5th in yards allowed, 7th in scoring defense, 22nd in rush yards against, 3rd in passing yards against.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 21:54

go pak go wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 21:46

Drj820 wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 21:15

Nice stats. But also must remember the one good offense we have played smoked us. We should absolutely have some of the best defensive stats in the league considering after week one we have played the bears putrid O, the Bucs with all their playmakers dead, and finally the pats with their 3rd string qb.

Just saying I think the defense is doing fine overall, but im Ñot making judgements yet until we play a couple more teams with capable offenses. Giants and Jets next two weeks won’t move the needle for me either.

I generally am a data guy and don't get too much in the feels sides of things.

So all I did was state stats.

1. it is remarkable overall how low offensive production the league is in. 18 points allowed and being 7th in the league is crazy. Normally that is top 3 level.

2. "the only good offense we have played smoked us...." that offense scored 20 on us when you take away the Vikings starting a possession in FG range, losing yards and still making the long kick to get to 23.

Seriously. Not one offense has put up more than 20 points on this defense. I wouldn't ever consider that smoking us.

Ever.

I will agree we have 1 or two drives each game that are mind boggling how we let the opponent do that to us in a game...but that's the thing. It's seriously only 1 to 2 drives a game this happens. And that has been the consistent line for the first four games.

I like our defense and am not implying they’ve done poorly.

But you basically did. You outlined the stats of 5th in yards and 7th in points and said, "yeah but when we played a real offense we got smoked" when that smoked is allowing 20 points. That is the raw data dude.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

03 Oct 2022 21:15

Just saying I haven’t seen enough “data” to make a judgement on whether they are over or under achieving yet.

But also not sure you can marry yourself to the data and then offer several caveats about how the data is skewed due to cheap points opponents scored. If we can offer those caveats to the data then I feel fine pointing out the offenses we have faced off against this season.

Also I can assure you the other teams in those rankings have forfeited cheap points too

Then just say that. Say it's week 4, you can't fault them too much at this point but hope for more based on the talent they have. I think it's very reaonable to want more. Personally I think this group could be Packers historic and their play hasn't matched that yet.

My only two caveats you mention are the 10 points that the offense allowed. Like literal direct points the offense allowed. Of the 72 points scored on the Packers, 10 of those points were the direct result of Aaron Rodgers. That's not twisting data. That is again pulling raw data and explaining the 72 points.

What we actually know from the defense is they have been quite frankly dominant this season for the exception of basically 2 drives per game. And that needs to tighten up.

Minnesota - opening drive and 99 yard drive
Chicago - opening drive and final drive
Tampa - opening drive and final drive
New England - opening drive/or first TD drive and final TD drive. (the first NE TD drive was more the result of penalties and broken plays in my eyes)

Other than that, I think they have been damn good. They just have to tighten up some of these drive lapses in the game.

we are ranked 3rd against the pass, but 22nd stopping the run, we still need to improve that, I think thats what people are complaining about, to many 10 yrd runs, or short 3rd downs.

I blame some of it on Barry and the 4 man spread fronts that we saw Sunday, he is relying to much on Campbell and Walker in those formations, even with our OLB's spread so wide we lose containment, thats unforgivable.
rarely ever can a team run to win, but with poor run defense it can sustain drives and try to pass it in when they get close, which NE did.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Oct 2022 07:56

we are ranked 3rd against the pass, but 22nd stopping the run, we still need to improve that, I think thats what people are complaining about, to many 10 yrd runs, or short 3rd downs.

I blame some of it on Barry and the 4 man spread fronts that we saw Sunday, he is relying to much on Campbell and Walker in those formations, even with our OLB's spread so wide we lose containment, thats unforgivable.
rarely ever can a team run to win, but with poor run defense it can sustain drives and try to pass it in when they get close, which NE did.

This week is our opportunity to show the league we can stop the run when we know they are gonna run.

We have to know that Barkley is going to be the focal point of the Giants attack.

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Oct 2022 08:10

This week is our opportunity to show the league we can stop the run when we know they are gonna run.

We have to know that Barkley is going to be the focal point of the Giants attack.

Especially considering Danny Dimes has a sprained ankle and is questionable, and Tyrod Taylor has a concussion and is questionable. Another 3rd-string QB?

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

04 Oct 2022 10:24

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Oct 2022 08:10

This week is our opportunity to show the league we can stop the run when we know they are gonna run.

We have to know that Barkley is going to be the focal point of the Giants attack.

Especially considering Danny Dimes has a sprained ankle and is questionable, and Tyrod Taylor has a concussion and is questionable. Another 3rd-string QB?

we love 3rd string QB's too is his name really Danny Dimes?

really baffling watching Barry trot out those 20 fronts against a 3rd string QB over and over, if he continues that stuff again I'am liable to swallow my dentures

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Oct 2022 10:36

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

04 Oct 2022 10:24

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Oct 2022 08:10

This week is our opportunity to show the league we can stop the run when we know they are gonna run.

We have to know that Barkley is going to be the focal point of the Giants attack.

Especially considering Danny Dimes has a sprained ankle and is questionable, and Tyrod Taylor has a concussion and is questionable. Another 3rd-string QB?

we love 3rd string QB's too is his name really Danny Dimes?

really baffling watching Barry trot out those 20 fronts against a 3rd string QB over and over, if he continues that stuff again I'am liable to swallow my dentures

Daniel Jones is the type of QB that will cause sleepless nights for Joe Barry. Strong running game, he can run himself, and he throws a really pretty deep ball. If you think this is the week we get out of the two-high looks, prepare to be disappointed.

This defense will get us through December in pretty decent shape. I really believe that. But I want them to play very well in JANUARY. That’s where SF and Tampa have killed us the past three years. And it looks like one or both of them might be in the same position this year.

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Oct 2022 10:55

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Oct 2022 10:36

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

04 Oct 2022 10:24

Especially considering Danny Dimes has a sprained ankle and is questionable, and Tyrod Taylor has a concussion and is questionable. Another 3rd-string QB?

we love 3rd string QB's too is his name really Danny Dimes?

really baffling watching Barry trot out those 20 fronts against a 3rd string QB over and over, if he continues that stuff again I'am liable to swallow my dentures

Daniel Jones is the type of QB that will cause sleepless nights for Joe Barry. Strong running game, he can run himself, and he throws a really pretty deep ball. If you think this is the week we get out of the two-high looks, prepare to be disappointed.

I have no problem using two high safety, I'd simply rather use a stronger front, less nickel, our corners have man coverage ability, and usually don't need over the top support, so often what looks like two high is just a disguise because one drops into interior coverage or in run support, isn't that what your seeing?

plus Jones has a leg I heard, so if he plays I doubt he scampers much, this should be a statement game, 2 score win