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Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 12:57
by Pckfn23
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:11
Says about players being treated on their way out; guys who were allowed to leave who were part of the core. LOOONNNG list of actual players. Says they were either not offered a contract, lowballed, or not "treated well"
Here is one that also is a bit interesting. All along I have agreed that they need to be more upfront with these guys, but to suggest guys were mad because they were lowballed or not offered a contract is really just damned if you do. So the front office must, in all cases, offer contracts the players feel are respectful? No low ball? No, no offers? That's just a a completely unrealistic expectation.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 12:58
by Crazylegs Starks
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:53
The league is changing. The org will never have a star again for his entire career if they refuse to reform or “modernize” things. You don’t have to bend the knee to “the player”, but there is nothing wrong with understanding stars have egos, and stroking those egos in small ways along the way.
Teams already do that, they always have. The question is where do they draw the line? Favre had a private locker room for crying out loud!
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 12:59
by Pckfn23
Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:58
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:53
The league is changing. The org will never have a star again for his entire career if they refuse to reform or “modernize” things. You don’t have to bend the knee to “the player”, but there is nothing wrong with understanding stars have egos, and stroking those egos in small ways along the way.
Teams already do that, they always have. The question is where do they draw the line? Favre had a private locker room for crying out loud!
Lots of generalizations too. What kinds of reforms and modernizing are needed? What kinds of small ways do these stars need their egos stroked?
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:03
by paco
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:09
by YoHoChecko
Honestly.
Rodgers gave me all the answers I could have wanted him to.
We know what he was thinking. We know what he was feeling. He's given his reasons for talking or not talking. We've heard the timeline of his evolving reactions.
That said, he's also back. He's playing this year. He's in the building. So it worked out, regardless of what the concessions actually are/aren't, regardless of how the dynamic is between him and the FO ("professional")
So, for me? I'm done with this now. I'm not going to rehash much my stance. I don't think the answers changed it all that much. I don't think they will change anyone's stance all that much. It turns out, mostly, when it comes to the drafting of Love removing his sense of control, which he has already said numerous times, his disappointment about Kumerow being released; his disappointment about the previous veterans who have been allowed to walk or released.... most of what we thought is now confirmed.
So the facts match the theories. So I doubt there's a reason to rehash or change minds. I'm going to do my best to refrain from posting here after this. I think this topic, for me, has resolved and is dead...
...until next year.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:15
by paco
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:09
Honestly.
Rodgers gave me all the answers I could have wanted him to.
We know what he was thinking. We know what he was feeling. He's given his reasons for talking or not talking. We've heard the timeline of his evolving reactions.
That said, he's also back. He's playing this year. He's in the building. So it worked out, regardless of what the concessions actually are/aren't, regardless of how the dynamic is between him and the FO ("professional")
So, for me? I'm done with this now. I'm not going to rehash much my stance. I don't think the answers changed it all that much. I don't think they will change anyone's stance all that much. It turns out, mostly, when it comes to the drafting of Love removing his sense of control, which he has already said numerous times, his disappointment about Kumerow being released; his disappointment about the previous veterans who have been allowed to walk or released.... most of what we thought is now confirmed.
So the facts match the theories. So I doubt there's a reason to rehash or change minds. I'm going to do my best to refrain from posting here after this. I think this topic, for me, has resolved and is dead...
...until next year.
I'm with you. I doubt anything new comes out during the season. Rodgers is resigned to the situation and is focused on playing and winning this year here. After this year, you pick it back up and whatever happens, happens.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:21
by Drj820
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:59
Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:58
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:53
The league is changing. The org will never have a star again for his entire career if they refuse to reform or “modernize” things. You don’t have to bend the knee to “the player”, but there is nothing wrong with understanding stars have egos, and stroking those egos in small ways along the way.
Teams already do that, they always have. The question is where do they draw the line? Favre had a private locker room for crying out loud!
Lots of generalizations too. What kinds of reforms and modernizing are needed? What kinds of small ways do these stars need their egos stroked?
You can’t think of any ideas?
When you have a HOF qb in the building and you are deciding between Malik and kumerow, go with the one the qb wants.
When Jordy is willing to take a pay cut and you know how close he is to the qb, tell jordy exactly what you can offer and see if he will agree.
JP will play for 3m to retire a packer? Just do it.
Give the HOF QB a call and ask him what he thinks of the potential coaches, then make your own decision, just pretend you care about his input.
All of these things do nothing to effect the cap for multiple years, are light hits to the cap for one year, only effect the last man on the 53 man roster, and all are worth doing to keep the HOF QB happy and smiling to avoid off-season drama and sabotaging a potential extended championship window.
Everything the guy mentioned in the presser would really be nbd at all to do if you thought of him as anything more than “the player”.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:35
by Pckfn23
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:21
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:59
Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:58
Teams already do that, they always have. The question is where do they draw the line? Favre had a private locker room for crying out loud!
Lots of generalizations too. What kinds of reforms and modernizing are needed? What kinds of small ways do these stars need their egos stroked?
You can’t think of any ideas?
I can, but want to know what you are meaning
When you have a HOF qb in the building and you are deciding between Malik and kumerow, go with the one the qb wants.
This I can 100% get on board with. Involve him in conversations about offensive guys on cut down decisions.
When Jordy is willing to take a pay cut and you know how close he is to the qb, tell jordy exactly what you can offer and see if he will agree.
Wouldn't that be lowballing?
JP will play for 3m to retire a packer? Just do it.
For $3.5 million I can agree. Would that have been lowballing him though? Did he go back to Carolina making less than he wanted? I think most of us have wished we had signed low cost veterans. We have done that to an extent the last few years.
Give the HOF QB a call and ask him what he thinks of the potential coaches, then make your own decision, just pretend you care about his input.
I believe they did so when hiring Lafleur.
All of these things do nothing to effect the cap for multiple years, are light hits to the cap for one year, only effect the last man on the 53 man roster, and all are worth doing to keep the HOF QB happy and smiling to avoid off-season drama and sabotaging a potential extended championship window.
It all adds up though. You start signing a bunch of aging vets, there was a long list, and you are a team in decline. How many of those guys resigning would have appeased him?
Everything the guy mentioned in the presser would really be nbd at all to do if you thought of him as anything more than “the player”.
I think there was a good amount he mentioned that I wouldn't be comfortable with any player getting involved in.
To me it sounded like Rodgers wants to just continue playing with his buddies. When you are in the league 17 years, that's just not going to happen. I want an aging vet or 2 on a low contract. I want Rodgers to be able to give some insights into cuts on offense. I want him to be able to recruit for the team if the office says they want to go after a guy.
Some of the things he mentions though, like character and lockerroom, just doesn't go with the reality of the Packers. The Packers have been lockerroom/character to a fault.
I appreciate that he voiced his concerns. I just don't think he realizes how hard it is to balance. We can't sign all those vets just because they wanted to continue to play in Green Bay and continue to be a competitive team.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:43
by Drj820
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:35
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:21
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:59
Lots of generalizations too. What kinds of reforms and modernizing are needed? What kinds of small ways do these stars need their egos stroked?
You can’t think of any ideas?
I can, but want to know what you are meaning
When you have a HOF qb in the building and you are deciding between Malik and kumerow, go with the one the qb wants.
This I can 100% get on board with. Involve him in conversations about offensive guys on cut down decisions.
When Jordy is willing to take a pay cut and you know how close he is to the qb, tell jordy exactly what you can offer and see if he will agree.
Wouldn't that be lowballing?
JP will play for 3m to retire a packer? Just do it.
For $3.5 million I can agree. Would that have been lowballing him though? Did he go back to Carolina making less than he wanted? I think most of us have wished we had signed low cost veterans. We have done that to an extent the last few years.
Give the HOF QB a call and ask him what he thinks of the potential coaches, then make your own decision, just pretend you care about his input.
I believe they did so when hiring Lafleur.
All of these things do nothing to effect the cap for multiple years, are light hits to the cap for one year, only effect the last man on the 53 man roster, and all are worth doing to keep the HOF QB happy and smiling to avoid off-season drama and sabotaging a potential extended championship window.
It all adds up though. You start signing a bunch of aging vets, there was a long list, and you are a team in decline. How many of those guys resigning would have appeased him?
Everything the guy mentioned in the presser would really be nbd at all to do if you thought of him as anything more than “the player”.
I think there was a good amount he mentioned that I wouldn't be comfortable with any player getting involved in.
To me it sounded like Rodgers wants to just continue playing with his buddies. When you are in the league 17 years, that's just not going to happen. I want an aging vet or 2 on a low contract. I want Rodgers to be able to give some insights into cuts on offense. I want him to be able to recruit for the team if the office says they want to go after a guy.
Some of the things he mentions though, like character and lockerroom, just doesn't go with the reality of the Packers. The Packers have been lockerroom/character to a fault.
I appreciate that he voiced his concerns. I just don't think he realizes how hard it is to balance. We can't sign all those vets just because they wanted to continue to play in Green Bay and continue to be a competitive team.
Sounds like we agree on some stuff, not on others. I’m not worried about low balling though if you have good communication skills and explain with the offer, your rational behind the offer. I would prefer the offer be on the table, with an explanation of why it needs to be a number like that. 3million is the number Rodgers gave in the presser about JP. He also said Jordy was fine with a pay cut, I think you talk to Jordy and see what he had in mind.
Also, Rodgers directly said in presser he was not involved at all in talks about the HC, only learned of decision after it was done. I would bring him in on those convos just to stroke his ego and make him feel important. Then I would make the decision that needed to be made for a position like HC. For the small ones, I wouldn’t mind going kumerow just bc he likes kumerow
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:44
by Crazylegs Starks
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:21
When you have a HOF qb in the building and you are deciding between Malik and kumerow, go with the one the qb wants.
But if Taylor has more upside???
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:21
When Jordy is willing to take a pay cut and you know how close he is to the qb, tell jordy exactly what you can offer and see if he will agree.
What if the FO doesn't want him back due to declining play or injury risk? (I think they made the right call with Jordy.)
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:21
JP will play for 3m to retire a packer? Just do it.
Peppers isn't really relevant in my opinion. He was basically done and he wanted to return to Carolina anyway. Maybe Woodson would be a better example?
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:21
Give the HOF QB a call and ask him what he thinks of the potential coaches, then make your own decision, just pretend you care about his input.
No way, not after the way MM's term ended.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:45
by NCF
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:21
When you have a HOF qb in the building and you are deciding between Malik and kumerow, go with the one the qb wants.
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:35
This I can 100% get on board with. Involve him in conversations about offensive guys on cut down decisions.
I disagree that you go with what the QB wants. Taylor made the team because his value on ST trumped Kumerow as #5 WR. But, yes, have that conversation and explain why the move is being made when Rodgers believes he's that important to the offense.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:47
by Pckfn23
That's interesting because Bakhtiari confirmed, at the time, that he and other vets like Rodgers were given the ability to make their opinions known on the potential new head coaches.
The biggest thing is, where is the line draw? Why wouldn't "the player" be angry if they don't take his advise?
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:49
by Pckfn23
NCF wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:45
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:21
When you have a HOF qb in the building and you are deciding between Malik and kumerow, go with the one the qb wants.
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:35
This I can 100% get on board with. Involve him in conversations about offensive guys on cut down decisions.
I disagree with both of you here. Taylor made the team because his value on ST trumped Kumerow as #5 WR. But, yes, have that conversation and explain why the move is being made when Rodgers believes he's that important to the offense.
Sorry, I guess I didn't 100% agree. I agree with you that Taylor had more value.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:49
by NCF
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:49
Sorry, I guess I didn't 100% agree. I agree with you that Taylor had more value.
I just realized that and edited my response.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:49
by Drj820
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:47
That's interesting because Bakhtiari confirmed, at the time, that he and other vets like Rodgers were given the ability to make their opinions known on the potential new head coaches.
The biggest thing is, where is the line draw? Why wouldn't "the player" be angry if they don't take his advise?
I would just say at that point if the player is still mad then no one will side with him when this kind of drama blows up. My main point is the packers could have taken several easy, non painful steps to prevent a lot of this from happening. They can’t prevent everything, but a lot of it sounds like legit gripes from an agin HOFer who knows it’s his legacy on the line.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:52
by Pckfn23
I agree, there were some small steps they could have taken, mentioned above. I don't think those lack of small steps warranted the reaction it got.
I did find it interesting that many of the players mentioned predated Gutenkunst as GM.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 13:58
by paco
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:52
I agree, there were some small steps they could have taken, mentioned above. I don't think those lack of small steps warranted the reaction it got.
I did find it interesting that many of the players mentioned predated Gutenkunst as GM.
I think this is an important point. It's not all about Gutey, these things go back before that (I hate to use the word systemic these days, but that's what it is). Rodgers and players want a progression toward the NBA in some ways. But it is barely, if at all, happening in the NFL. I think Brady, Peyton, and Brees were probably outliers in the say they've gotten at various points. Doesn't mean it shouldn't happen, but the NFL is so big, that it isn't happening any time soon. Again, players screwed themselves in the last CBA. Now they have to wait a decade to have any chance at real changes.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 14:02
by Drj820
Overall I think the reaction was just fine...at this point. I mean he played the last game of the season, and he’s at the first day of camp. I’m good!
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 14:40
by Foosball
Thinking about some of the things Rodgers said today and it made me think back to some of the players the Packers let go.
They let Clay Matthew’s go and then assigned their 1st round draft pick his number 52. Matthew’s was an all pro. He helped the Packers win a SB. He also agreed to play middle LBer for awhile. I did think it was weird at the time. The Packers could have waited a couple years. I remember Matthew’s tweet …”the body's not even cold yet…”
Also I never understood Thompson sending Favre’s locker to his home. I know Thompson was trying to force him to retire but I thought that was bizarre.
All in all, teams let go of star players once their play starts to diminish. Rodgers is saying uh uh…not going to be happen to me. I’m leaving the Packers on my own terms.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 28 Jul 2021 14:46
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 13:21
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:59
Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑28 Jul 2021 12:58
Teams already do that, they always have. The question is where do they draw the line? Favre had a private locker room for crying out loud!
Lots of generalizations too. What kinds of reforms and modernizing are needed? What kinds of small ways do these stars need their egos stroked?
You can’t think of any ideas?
When you have a HOF qb in the building and you are deciding between Malik and kumerow, go with the one the qb wants.
When Jordy is willing to take a pay cut and you know how close he is to the qb, tell jordy exactly what you can offer and see if he will agree.
JP will play for 3m to retire a packer? Just do it.
Give the HOF QB a call and ask him what he thinks of the potential coaches, then make your own decision, just pretend you care about his input.
All of these things do nothing to effect the cap for multiple years, are light hits to the cap for one year, only effect the last man on the 53 man roster, and all are worth doing to keep the HOF QB happy and smiling to avoid off-season drama and sabotaging a potential extended championship window.
Everything the guy mentioned in the presser would really be nbd at all to do if you thought of him as anything more than “the player”.
exactly, it's not as though he was asking for a private locker room, though he deserves one just as much as Favre ever did.
he's right, he's more then JUST a player, and knows talent, what does it hurt to listen to his opinion, not a damn thing.
and if we believe him then the media blew this all up, he and his agent didn't intentionally leak anything, yet for 5 months on a daily basis we heard rumor after non factual rumor, so blown out of preportion that fans started to hate the guy, some always will.
as he said, Cobb is a perfect fit for Lafluers offense, and he's wanted a slot receiver for a while, now we have two.