Packers Huddle

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2021 12:26

Or run past the line of scrimmage and then throw an illegal shuffle pass...

It's shovel pass!

lake shark wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2021 12:02

The consecutive games one will be tough to beat now that there’s concussion protocol. Maybe Russ Wilson has a chance but he needs to play 9 more years without missing a game. Think about that.

Good one, Favre will always be the Iron Man of QB's.

I think if Favre would have had a few more Freemans or Walkers his stat line would be even better, when a receiver like Shroader is your main target it's bound to skew production and reflect poorly on the QB, as Ron Wolf said, if he could have a do over it would be providing Favre with better receivers prior to that SB run, Rison and Jackson got us over the top, I think he made a valid confession.

Ghost_Lombardi wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2021 12:26

RingoCStarrQB wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2021 12:04

Brett was as tough as any football player ever.

And most of us know darn well that had Brett been under center with a first and goal from the north endzone 8 yard line line ........... he would have either ran for first down, ran for a touchdown, or thrown for a touchdown (or threw an interception).

I'll take Brett Favre any game just due his toughness, passion, intensity, drive and attitude. Same goes for Bart.

Or run past the line of scrimmage and then throw an illegal shuffle pass...

ya but he made up for it when he did it legally on a busted play from the 5 in a playoff game and we won, Favre was a very good improvisor, I think most fans remember the bad stuff far more then the good as time goes by.

Yoop wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2021 12:43

ya but he made up for it when he did it legally on a busted play from the 5 in a playoff game and we won, Favre was a very good improvisor, I think most fans remember the bad stuff far more then the good as time goes by.

Yeah, my memories of Favre are unfortunately skewed by the 2005 season, first half of 2006, and the 2007 NFCCG. Oh, and the un-retirement drama.

From 1995-1998 he was a joy to watch though. 2001, 2003, 2004, and 2007 were pretty fun, too. (I wish I would've seen the 1994 season, but I didn't have any awareness of football at the time.)

TheSkeptic wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2021 09:37

APB wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2021 07:49

You consider HOF’er Brett Favre striking silver? A QB who started 321 consecutive games spanning nearly 2 decades for this team?

Silver is not cheap. Yes, Farve was a very good QB but he was not Peyton or Brady or Rodgers quality. There are lots of players in the HOF that were good players but I am reserving Gold for the elite, not just very good. Rodgers has been the 2nd best QB of the last 20 years.

Farve's career overlapped with Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Dan Marino and John Elway, all of whom were better than he was. You can make an argument about Farve being better than Elway but many people will also think that Brees, Young and Warner were better than Farve. Just my opinion of course.

You can make whatever argument you want whether those players listed were better or worse than Favre. Fact is, they were all very close in talent and success. They were all “gold” standard as far as I’m concerned.

Now, had you included Majkowski in that group and graded him a “silver”, I’d have thought nothing of it. His talent and success was linear to that of a “gold/silver” grading system. But Favre a silver? No way.

Yoop wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2021 12:38

lake shark wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2021 12:02

The consecutive games one will be tough to beat now that there’s concussion protocol. Maybe Russ Wilson has a chance but he needs to play 9 more years without missing a game. Think about that.

Good one, Favre will always be the Iron Man of QB's.

I think if Favre would have had a few more Freemans or Walkers his stat line would be even better, when a receiver like Shroader is your main target it's bound to skew production and reflect poorly on the QB, as Ron Wolf said, if he could have a do over it would be providing Favre with better receivers prior to that SB run, Rice and Jackson got us over the top, I think he made a valid confession.

Meh, I don't really buy the lack of weapons for Favre argument. There were brief periods of time where it got ugly, but for the majority of his career he had:

Sterling Sharpe
Robert Brooks
Mark Chmura
Antonio Freeman
Bubba Franks
Donald Driver
Javon Walker
Greg Jennings

Same for Rodgers. For the most part, we have always been in good shape. Some transitions have been a little rougher than others, but the talent pipeline has never run fully dry.

Donald Driver
Greg Jennings
James Jones
Jordy Nelson
Jermichael Finley
Randall Cobb
Davante Adams

Hopefully MVS and Tonyan will belong on Rodgers' list by the time this season is over.

If that was a troll comment that would have been top 5 haha. Since it wasnt..it was either a failed analogy if it didnt convey what was intended, or it was just plain blasphemous!

Either way, my opinion is that I loved Brett Favre. Like Kobe Bryant, history is forgetting his greatness as the time passes on. Sad to me.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

27 Aug 2021 19:46

If that was a troll comment that would have been top 5 haha. Since it wasnt..it was either a failed analogy if it didnt convey what was intended, or it was just plain blasphemous!

Either way, my opinion is that I loved Brett Favre. Like Kobe Bryant, history is forgetting his greatness as the time passes on. Sad to me.

Facts. People talk about Favre like he was a bum. I mean compared to Rodgers he was a bum but so is every other QB. Favre pulled this team out of the &%$@ show, won 3 straight MVPs and a SB and carried some mediocre teams to decent records.

Meh, I don't really buy the lack of weapons for Favre argument. There were brief periods of time where it got ugly, but for the majority of his career he had:

Robert Brooks
Mark Chmura
Antonio Freeman
Bubba Franks

I mean...looking back at his career...if this is what he had then...ouch.

Brooks had 2 1,000 yard seasons. One be the monster almost 1500 year.

The only compare to his Sharpe seasons was Freeman...and that was only 3 years too.

Mark had a high of 679, Bubba 442. How Bubba made it to a Pro Bowl...I have no idea. Even during a 241 yard season.

Favre worked with a lot of &%$@, looking back its sad to say.

Yeah Rodgers has had significantly better weapons. Sharpe was a bit before my time, but from what I have heard, he might be the top player on that list (what do you older fans say?). But then like all of the following slots are filled by Rodgers' WRs.

I mean, I liked Antonio Freeman, but he wasn't anything special tbh.

Rodgers was always in a different Galaxy than Favre to me until 2015 - 2019. That Rodgers era started to align himself more to Favre in terms of both having a "down period"

Now both are having a renaissance due to a new coach. Both are 3 Time MVPs. Both have a ring. Both choke in the playoffs.

Only real difference is Favre's achilles heal is throwing the INT and Rodgers's achilles heal is holding onto the damn ball.

I still think Rodgers is a better player, more talented player, smarter player.

go pak go wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2021 07:42

Rodgers was always in a different Galaxy than Favre to me until 2015 - 2019. That Rodgers era started to align himself more to Favre in terms of both having a "down period"

Now both are having a renaissance due to a new coach. Both are 3 Time MVPs. Both have a ring. Both choke in the playoffs.

Only real difference is Favre's achilles heal is throwing the INT and Rodgers's achilles heal is holding onto the damn ball.

I still think Rodgers is a better player, more talented player, smarter player.

Rodgers was taught to be more conservative, McCarthy did the risk analysis and figured less mistakes would equal more wins, and he was right, Holmgren figured trying to corral Favre would drastically reduce his production, and he was probably right too, the personal makeup of these two players couldn't be more opposite, where Rodgers is calculated, Favre is impulsive, theres both good and bad to both.

I know you and others may disagree, but to me the decline of the late Favre, and also Rodgers from 015 till late 019 has to do with the decline of the WR position, Lafluers pass schemes helped, but added experience of the existing receivers helped a lot to, doesn't matter who the QB is, minus quality receivers all will struggle.

just look at this list of receivers, between 2000 and 05 all of Favres receivers where on the downside, same for Rodgers from 015 to 019, take away the bullets and the gun don't shoot.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... eiving.htm

Yoop wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2021 08:11

I know you and others may disagree, but to me the decline of the late Favre, and also Rodgers from 015 till late 019 has to do with the decline of the WR position, Lafluers pass schemes helped, but added experience of the existing receivers helped a lot to, doesn't matter who the QB is, minus quality receivers all will struggle.

just look at this list of receivers, between 2000 and 05 all of Favres receivers where on the downside, same for Rodgers from 015 to 019, take away the bullets and the gun don't shoot.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... eiving.htm

Actually I don't believe anyone disagrees with you on this topic. Like at all. Everyone I know acknowledges that reduction in talent from the receiver position will lead to a decrease in production from the passing position.

Where this argument continues to fester is you leave zero room to place part of the blame on the passer. Very rarely in life will you see 100% correlation and causation to one variable. Usually it is a combination of things.

And this is no different. Especially when points have been brought up (I will not bring up again) about the gaping holes in the "nothing but crap at the WR position from 2015 - 2019" disproves your argument. Not to mention that Rodgers was clearly throwing to checkdowns more often last year and became more accurate again on his deep balls due to better footwork and fundamentals which was admitted to by Rodgers and MLF.

Again. Not going to say receiver doesn't matter. It does and I will also concede that the Packers had lesser value at that spot for periods (even though they were the same people - and this argument spreads because of who to blame which I am far more reluctant to blame the FO when it was injuries that knocked down these star WRs) but it is multiple variables and "chicken before the egg" argument. I think the answer is a little bit of everything. And I, as most others on this forum, have always maintained that position.

As for who has had better receivers to work with during their careers?

It's Aaron Rodgers and it's not even close. I think it would be hard to find any QB in the history of league who has had more depth and talent at the receiver position over a 13 year span. I could say Peyton Manning. But again, is it the chicken or the egg (are the receivers good or did Manning make them good?)

I don’t think Rodgers is miles ahead of Favre. Favre at least won 2 NFCCGs. Rodgers is far more risk adverse, which 90% of the time Thats a good thing. But then this past year before the half Rodgers decided to get risky, throws a pick, and the bucs score before the half off of it. As someone else stated, I’m more confident Favre gets the ball in the end zone on that 3rd and 8, or as they said, at least goes down swinging with an INT. I think when people think of Favre now, they think of the end. I think of the mid 90s bc that’s when I was a little kid writing book reports on biographies of Vince Lombardi, the ice bowl, and obsessed with Brett Favre in mid elementary school.

As it’s been stated...3 MVPs, and 2 Súper bowl appearances, and a ring just doesn’t equal miles behind Rodgers when you consider that Rodgers came in and was handed the keys to a luxary vehicle. Favre came in and resurrected the franchise from the tomb. Could Rodgers have done that if asked to start year one? Maybe, but I’m not 100% certain.

I have been critical of Rodgers's ability to rise to the occasion in the playoffs, but Favre after 1997 was an order of magnitude worse in that respect. Rodgers shrinks, but with post-'97 Favre you either got (A) unmitigated dumpster fire, e.g. 2001 Rams game where he threw six picks or (B) critical mistake at the most critical moment of the game (for maximum pain infliction).

In fact, you could COUNT on Favre to throw the pick in situations like 3rd and 8. I literally called Favre's INT against the Saints as a Viking right before they ran that play because, since I was no longer rooting for the guy and thus no longer emotionally invested in his success, I was finally able to accept what all empirical evidence said about the guy.

"Never bet against Brett Favre" used to be a saying among delusional Packers fans. In reality, you could bet against him with confidence.

which came first, the decline of the wr position group, or the QB? in both cases between Favre and Rodgers ( and almost every great QB) the WR group had declined and the QB couldn't do as well with the WR's he had available.
Favre is a good example, he took more chances with riskier throws towards the end, and we saw a bounce back season from him as soon as we drafted Greg Jennings, once the receivers are unable to get open on schedule the QB will tend to gamble more, and do stuff they wouldn't normally do, which also happened with Rodgers, who while use to extending plays, was forced to do so more often with the decline of Nelson and Cobb, obviously bad habits will also develop ( off balance throws, poor footwork, etc.)

both are/where great when they had a few quality receivers to work with

Oh christ, here we go again...

Labrev wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2021 10:31

I have been critical of Rodgers's ability to rise to the occasion in the playoffs, but Favre after 1997 was an order of magnitude worse in that respect. Rodgers shrinks, but with post-'97 Favre you either got (A) unmitigated dumpster fire, e.g. 2001 Rams game where he threw six picks or (B) critical mistake at the most critical moment of the game (for maximum pain infliction).

In fact, you could COUNT on Favre to throw the pick in situations like 3rd and 8. I literally called Favre's INT against the Saints as a Viking right before they ran that play because, since I was no longer rooting for the guy and thus no longer emotionally invested in his success, I was finally able to accept what all empirical evidence said about the guy.

"Never bet against Brett Favre" used to be a saying among delusional Packers fans. In reality, you could bet against him with confidence.

Oh I knew our fate was sealed before Favre took a snap in OT vs New York.

I had absolutely zero faith he was going to lead us down the field.

But I think that was a combination of Favre looking like an incredibly old man in that cold and Favre's legacy in those moments.

APB wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2021 11:01

Oh christ, here we go again...

No I have said my piece.

Yoop wrote: ↑

28 Aug 2021 10:54

which came first, the decline of the wr position group, or the QB? in both cases between Favre and Rodgers ( and almost every great QB) the WR group had declined and the QB couldn't do as well with the WR's he had available.
Favre is a good example, he took more chances with riskier throws towards the end, and we saw a bounce back season from him as soon as we drafted Greg Jennings, once the receivers are unable to get open on schedule the QB will tend to gamble more, and do stuff they wouldn't normally do, which also happened with Rodgers, who while use to extending plays, was forced to do so more often with the decline of Nelson and Cobb, obviously bad habits will also develop ( off balance throws, poor footwork, etc.)

both are/where great when they had a few quality receivers to work with

I absolutely agree. Well worded post.