Packers Huddle

Posted: **12 Apr 2025 21:22**

musclestang wrote: ↑
12 Apr 2025 11:43
There's a lot that goes into being a GM. Is he the best over, heck no. Is he good, i'd say yes. Is he as bad as some of his draft picks, I'd say definitely not. heck, Bill B. had stinkers of drafts everywhere, but he made up for it in other ways.

Gutey has had some poor drafts, he's had some good ones. He's picked horrible players and hit some dandys. He's done pretty well in FA, he's released, cut and added responsibly and with some aggression at times and done very well. All in all, it's a definite good from me.

Yeah I think Gute is probably in that 5th to 8th range in terms of ranking in his tenure.

Philly, Detroit, SF, BAL, BUF, KC are probably GMs that could be argued as rated higher.

MN could be close in that camp as well.

Posted: **12 Apr 2025 23:30**

Too much credit. Offensively Gutenbumst has been one of the worst drafters. A lot of this orgs offensive success under Gutenbumst was to the credit of TT players like Rodgers, Adams, Jones, Bak. He’s done very well getting OL to give credit where it’s due but the failures everywhere else on offense is staggering. He’s consistently missed badly at WR and it took 4 swings at TE to find one that is competent. He’s not done well at RB either. Honestly Matt LaFleur the offensive mastermind has carried the garbage that’s been supplied to him. Even Love is a borderline top 10 QB which basically means you are on the edge of looking for a new one.

Defensively this team has poured draft resources to really not have drafted any elite players outside of Alexander. Maybe Cooper is on his way. Draft position can’t be blamed when he’s had 2 first round picks twice and top 16 picks 3 times.

A lot of Gutes best moves have come from FA which is only confirmation of how poorly he has drafted. If the players he was bringing in were any good he would be resigning them and not have the money for the big FA deals.

Posted: **13 Apr 2025 06:08**

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑
12 Apr 2025 18:36

texas wrote: ↑
12 Apr 2025 14:19
Yeah, this can be debated forever, but I am definitely in the camp that thinks that without Love being drafted, Rodgers has no motivation to snap out of his complacency. IIRC I even said before we drafted Love that we should take a QB so Rodgers can get his head out of his behind, even if that QB ends up being a total bust. Rodgers sort of confirmed the effect it had on his psyche in his Netflix documentary.
While I completely have always disagreed with this thought process, if true it’s an indictment on the entire organization that they couldn’t find any other way to motivate Rodgers than drafting a QB in the first round… trading up for one on top of that. It’s a total failure on the ability to lead Rodgers of its true.

You could have just as easily motivated Rodgers by taking a QB in the 2nd round and still getting a useful piece in the 1st round.

spot on, what would actually have motivated Rodgers would have been to draft a couple stud receivers to go with Adams, maybe a receiver and TE, versus every draft class loaded with defensive busts, for two years Rodgers voiced his complaints, and NO one listened

Posted: **13 Apr 2025 08:24**

lupedafiasco wrote: And the fan base loves to blame Rodgers for some reason… arguably the greatest statistical player in GB history for losses in 2021 and 2022 when that 2020 class should have been the one pushing it for a championship. Instead that entire class was either backups or bums and in most cases both like Dillon and Deguara.

You consistently like to use the 2020 draft as proof in your indictment against Gutekunst as a poor GM. It’s true, the 2020 draft didn’t produce much for the Packers, especially if you consider Love to be a marginally talented QB, as you clearly do.

But take a look at the 2020 draft in its entirety and you begin to recognize some things.

First, it was a draft rich in QBs but not much anything else. Sure, there were a couple superstars among them but, for the most part, it was a draft relatively sparse of elite talent. Which teams actually did fare well? I’d consider the Cowboys, Ravens, Vikings, and Bucs as having “good” drafts. The rest? Meh.

Second, it was the Covid draft. The entire evaluation process was thrown off because everything - the draft venue, team facilities, university pro-days, interviews - was shut down. There was literally nothing of substance outside of game film to base decisions on. Yeah, the Packers struggled with finding talent based on the limited information that was available but so did the vast majority of other teams.

I’m not excusing Gutekunst for picks like Deguara or Dillon - Gute gambled on finding unique talents that fit what he was trying to build…and lost - or the overall poor haul of picks but I’m also allowing full context accounting for why that draft sucked. The Packers, like 85% of teams, struggled with acquiring draft talent that year.

Posted: **13 Apr 2025 10:19**

Yoop wrote: ↑
13 Apr 2025 06:08

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑
12 Apr 2025 18:36

texas wrote: ↑
12 Apr 2025 14:19
Yeah, this can be debated forever, but I am definitely in the camp that thinks that without Love being drafted, Rodgers has no motivation to snap out of his complacency. IIRC I even said before we drafted Love that we should take a QB so Rodgers can get his head out of his behind, even if that QB ends up being a total bust. Rodgers sort of confirmed the effect it had on his psyche in his Netflix documentary.
While I completely have always disagreed with this thought process, if true it’s an indictment on the entire organization that they couldn’t find any other way to motivate Rodgers than drafting a QB in the first round… trading up for one on top of that. It’s a total failure on the ability to lead Rodgers of its true.

You could have just as easily motivated Rodgers by taking a QB in the 2nd round and still getting a useful piece in the 1st round.
spot on, what would actually have motivated Rodgers would have been to draft a couple stud receivers to go with Adams, maybe a receiver and TE, versus every draft class loaded with defensive busts, for two years Rodgers voiced his complaints, and NO one listened

If you do actually listen to his complaints, not once does he say anything about better receiver talent. It's just that he thought the FO was too mean to vets. The only instance of him actually complaining about what they did at receiver was cutting Kumerow, a JAG who played the fifth receiver spot.

You just twist his words to fit your pet narrative.

Posted: **13 Apr 2025 11:28**

Labrev wrote: ↑
13 Apr 2025 10:19

Yoop wrote: ↑
13 Apr 2025 06:08

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑
12 Apr 2025 18:36

While I completely have always disagreed with this thought process, if true it’s an indictment on the entire organization that they couldn’t find any other way to motivate Rodgers than drafting a QB in the first round… trading up for one on top of that. It’s a total failure on the ability to lead Rodgers of its true.

You could have just as easily motivated Rodgers by taking a QB in the 2nd round and still getting a useful piece in the 1st round.
spot on, what would actually have motivated Rodgers would have been to draft a couple stud receivers to go with Adams, maybe a receiver and TE, versus every draft class loaded with defensive busts, for two years Rodgers voiced his complaints, and NO one listened
If you do actually listen to his complaints, not once does he say anything about better receiver talent. It's just that he thought the FO was too mean to vets. The only instance of him actually complaining about what they did at receiver was cutting Kumerow, a JAG who played the fifth receiver spot.

You just twist his words to fit your pet narrative.

You're the twisted one

in 2017 he said we need to adjust schemes and run more, said it again in 2018, adjusting schemes is a reference to not being able continue spread vertical pass routes, which is obvious to anyone who watched those iso routes fail with the likes of Kumerow, Allison and the other jags he was forced to throw to, McCarthy made some adjustments, but we lacked the talent to make those adjustments work as well, and by that time Rodgers was so upset he wouldn't even throw the check downs in 2018, unlike you Labrev, I don't need a freaken billboard to get the message, I know how to read body languadge

why would a QB !@#$ off the FO making demands, it's the job of the FO to know the needs of the team, and why do you defend a FO that failed so miserably between 2015 and 2022, lousy defense, lousy ST's and lousy receivers, only a fool would fail to recognise that Rodgers is the main reason we stayed competitive during that span, we finally hired a more innovative coach, who was able to max out Rodgers ability, however we were still always short skill position talent to push us over the top.

and the actions of Guty the last 2 drafts brings my point home, 8 skill positions drafted and 1 UFA RB in that span, for his new QB, that's how this stuff is suppose to work, and he'll take another high end receiver this draft most likely to replace the lose of Doubs or Watson next year, remember, bullets matter, heck even Andy Herman agree's with me, come over from the dark side Labrev

Posted: **13 Apr 2025 13:54**

Yoop wrote: ↑
12 Apr 2025 11:06
I think Guty hated Rodgers, hated that he ruffled FO feathers over the last couple years with McCarthy and lack of receivers required for Mike's pass schemes to flourish, your right, Fans blamed Rodgers, when they should have blamed the insanity of using so many picks on defense when half never played up to draft status, so Gute wouldn't hop up and trade up for a receiver,

Ahhhhhhhh!!! Why do you put all these defensive players before receiver help?!

Are you INSANE?!?

Do you HATE our QB?!?!

Yoop wrote: ↑
11 Apr 2025 13:23
7. Mason Graham DT
9. Jalon Walker OLB/ILB
10. Mykel Williams DE
12. Will Johnson CB
13. Derrick Harman DT
16. Shemar Stewart DE
17. Mike Green OLB
18. Jihead Campbell ILB
19. Kenneth Grant DT
21. Walter Nolen DT

22. Mathew Golden WR
23. Emeka Egbuka WR

and then did it for his futures QB,

He traded up for Watson when we had Rodgers.

In Love's first year he passed on JSN in Round 1, took Reed after trading DOWN.

Receiver is probably the position he has invested the most draft capital into, if we were to tally it all up. Three in his first, a TE in Day 2 of the next two drafts, then another two, then three again. It would no doubt be one of the positions he has given the most attention. You wailed that the three taken in his first draft because they were mid- and late-rounders. But Doubs is also a mid-rounder and you have not complained about that pick.

Your narrative is completely incoherent and ridiculous. The only strand of a consistent point amid all this jibber-jabber is:

"I want Gute to draft GOOD receivers, and not bad ones!"

That's it. That's all your whining amounts to, an obvious point that we needed to do much better than we did with drafting receiver help, which is far apart from your proposterous assertions that Gute deliberately neglected the position out of spite for Rodgers. He brought in loads of guys, it just did not work out by and large.

I guess the next step in your thinking... because you prefer to think it in terms of fantastical nonsense rather than rational thinking... is that Gute purposely spent all those picks on WRs/TEs he knew would fail, so that not only would he succeed in spiting Rodgers, but he would make it look like he tried to help him.

And he continued this by not taking a WR in Round 1 when Love became QB, but he slyly took receivers he thought would be good in those later rounds unlike with Rodgers, but then when those receivers did not look good last year as Year 2 players... umm, well he was behind that too, somehow, but nobody else in the world is smart enough to see this, only Yoop!

Posted: **13 Apr 2025 16:42**

Just got Greg Jennings' signature on my Rodgers, Driver, Jordy signed SB45 mini-helmet. That's a quality TT engineered receiving corp. Still digging for Jermichael and James Jones.

Posted: **13 Apr 2025 16:42**

No Kay Adams NFL Draft itinerary published yet.

Posted: **14 Apr 2025 06:53**

Labrev wrote: ↑
13 Apr 2025 13:54

Yoop wrote: ↑
12 Apr 2025 11:06
I think Guty hated Rodgers, hated that he ruffled FO feathers over the last couple years with McCarthy and lack of receivers required for Mike's pass schemes to flourish, your right, Fans blamed Rodgers, when they should have blamed the insanity of using so many picks on defense when half never played up to draft status, so Gute wouldn't hop up and trade up for a receiver,
Ahhhhhhhh!!! Why do you put all these defensive players before receiver help?! Are you INSANE?!? Do you HATE our QB?!?!

Yoop wrote: ↑
11 Apr 2025 13:23
7. Mason Graham DT
9. Jalon Walker OLB/ILB
10. Mykel Williams DE
12. Will Johnson CB
13. Derrick Harman DT
16. Shemar Stewart DE
17. Mike Green OLB
18. Jihead Campbell ILB
19. Kenneth Grant DT
21. Walter Nolen DT

22. Mathew Golden WR
23. Emeka Egbuka WR

and then did it for his futures QB,
He traded up for Watson when we had Rodgers.

In Love's first year he passed on JSN in Round 1, took Reed after trading DOWN.

Receiver is probably the position he has invested the most draft capital into, if we were to tally it all up. Three in his first, a TE in Day 2 of the next two drafts, then another two, then three again. It would no doubt be one of the positions he has given the most attention. You wailed that the three taken in his first draft because they were mid- and late-rounders. But Doubs is also a mid-rounder and you have not complained about that pick.

Your narrative is completely incoherent and ridiculous. The only strand of a consistent point amid all this jibber-jabber is:

"I want Gute to draft GOOD receivers, and not bad ones!"

That's it. That's all your whining amounts to, an obvious point that we needed to do much better than we did with drafting receiver help, which is far apart from your proposterous assertions that Gute deliberately neglected the position out of spite for Rodgers. He brought in loads of guys, it just did not work out by and large.

I guess the next step in your thinking... because you prefer to think it in terms of fantastical nonsense rather than rational thinking... is that Gute purposely spent all those picks on WRs/TEs he knew would fail, so that not only would he succeed in spiting Rodgers, but he would make it look like he tried to help him.

And he continued this by not taking a WR in Round 1 when Love became QB, but he slyly took receivers he thought would be good in those later rounds unlike with Rodgers, but then when those receivers did not look good last year as Year 2 players... umm, well he was behind that too, somehow, but nobody else in the world is smart enough to see this, only Yoop!

that's a talent list, not a wish list

so Guties answer to fix the dilapidated receiver room was to 4th on Moore, a 5th on MVS and a 6th on St Brown, of which MVS did pretty well as a straight line burner, and it was his only season he's caught more than 50% of targeted throws at 52%, wow, the other two never amounted to squat, same with Sternberger he used a 3rd round on in 2019, he didn't take any receiving help in 2020, our year we fell short again in the PO's, in 2021 he took another bust with Amari Rodgers in round 3, your right he tried using mid rounders,and mostly missed.

Rodgers was going into his last season, we had lost Adams, finally Guty uses a high 2nd on Watson, another receiver who can't stay healthy and he was a boom or bust player every step of the way, raw route runner, tracking issues, speed was his drawing card, Doubs was a hit in round 4, tori in round 7 rounded out that draft

for LOves first year Guty went all in with 2 2nd rounder, Musgrave and Reed, a 3rd on Kraft, a 5th on Wicks, and a 7th on Dubose,
we basically went from 2014 Adams till 2022 Watson never taking higher than a 3rd round pick on a receiver and that one was a miss.
now Guty hating Rodgers may have been a trifle over the top, but 4 jag receivers was a pitiful effort.

Posted: **14 Apr 2025 15:02**

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2025 ... per-report

Posted: **14 Apr 2025 15:04**

NCF wrote: ↑
14 Apr 2025 15:02
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2025 ... per-report

I’m taking that cheap chance 9 times out of ten. (The tenth time the player says no)

Posted: **14 Apr 2025 15:10**

I don't know how ARI used him so idk if he is a bust because he was misused or is bad at football, but at 26 it is unlikely he has any real upside either way. That said, I do not mind bringing him in and seeing if he can carve out a niche as a ST guy and/or role-player on D.

Posted: **14 Apr 2025 15:30**

Labrev wrote: ↑
14 Apr 2025 15:10
I don't know how ARI used him so idk if he is a bust because he was misused or is bad at football, but at 26 it is unlikely he has any real upside either way. That said, I do not mind bringing him in and seeing if he can carve out a niche as a ST guy and/or role-player on D.

I also didn't follow his demise closely, but I do know they moved him around a lot early on. He's someone who is a cautionary tale of "jack of all trades, master of none" versatility. Is he positionless in a good way? Or does he not have a position?

That said, now there's tape on him. Someone can go through and figure out what he did best and what he is comfortable with; there's no pressure to be a star. There are a TON of LBs who had middling to bad first contracts and then flashed real talent when used properly--Da'Vondre Campbell comes to mind, in fact. But there are plenty more.

I'd like to see what Hafley does with a guy like this. It's probably a limited role early that just allows him to use his length and athleticism to run and chase. But I'd find one thing he does well and focus on that first. I'm sure there's gotta be SOMETHING haha

Posted: **14 Apr 2025 15:34**

Arizona used him as a LB and NY used him at S. He is neither, apparently, but I still believe a smart DC could make the most out of him. I was convinced he was a future HOF talent when he came out.

Posted: **14 Apr 2025 15:36**

I hate the term overhang defender, but he is something along those lines. I think he could be a TE eraser.

Posted: **14 Apr 2025 15:56**

No real position for Simmons. Not instinctive or physical enough to play LB. Not good enough in coverage for a S. I always thought he would be best used as just a big nickel against specific teams. I was never a fan of how the Cardinals tried to use him. I thought the Giants might have more success. At this point in his career he should really focus on becoming a STs demon. Theres so much you can do with that size and speed on that front but it might be too late for him to learn.

Posted: **14 Apr 2025 20:20**

Oh lort, don’t tell Yoop Don Beebe is heralding the weapons Rodgers had…

Posted: **14 Apr 2025 20:57**

It's frankly just the factual position. Rodgers objectively had great supporting casts, minus like two seasons (oh boo hoo... every great QB has to go through a few seasons like that, most having to have far more of those than AR—deal with it).

Posted: **15 Apr 2025 00:16**

Oh for $%@# same. Rodgers had a great supporting cast until he didn’t. Everything was fine at WR until Gutenbumst took over. Then he went on to take 10 straight WRs that are incredibly average if not complete busts.

Love definitely has had it worse off at WR but that shouldn’t come as a surprise under the same GM who couldn’t do anything to help Rodgers either.

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