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Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 14:54
by salmar80
BSA wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 14:39
salmar80 wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 14:11
Marcedes was a dependable and VERY effective blocker last season, but at 37 years old, I'd imagine the Packers will look for a y
oung & cheap blocking TE before dishing money his way.
Marcedes just wants a little more cash..nothing wrong with asking. Gute was glowing in his post-season review and Rodgers needs a peer on the age front. As far as young and cheeep - the Packers are attempting to convert former DL Bronson Kaufusi into a TE. He dropped 15 lbs and has been working in the offseason to remake his body into a TE. Marcedes would be the perfect tutor for the guy.
Here's his stats when he was a 285 lb DE, he's already down to 270 now. That 3 cone is damn good for that weight
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/bronson-kaufusi
I would really love a nasty blocking TE named Bronson.
Yeah, I'm not saying "never" to Marcedes. Just that I think it's more likely we sign him during camp if the younger options don't seem to cut it, than sign him now for more money than past seasons.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 14:54
by Labrev
meh, I would just move on, even for vet-minimum.
He's slow as molasses in the open field, the only real value he brings is is in his blocking but we get Deguara back, and Dafney proved quite capable as a blocker (and we gave him A LOT of blocking responsibilities when we bumped him to the active roster). Tonyan and Sternberger are not that bad at it, either -- at least, neither one of them is a Jimmy Graham-caliber liability.
The only thing that gives me pause is I don't know who can take Lewis's place as a leader. That doesn't mean that player does not exist, though, or that it alone justifies a roster spot.
I just don't think a 0-upside slow old guy justifies a roster spot anymore when we have guys who can more than adequately do the stuff he's good at minus the stuff he's not good at.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 15:35
by BSA
Labrev wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 14:54
The only thing that gives me pause is I don't know who can take Lewis's place as a leader. That doesn't mean that player does not exist, though, or that it alone justifies a roster spot.
I just don't think a 0-upside slow old guy justifies a roster spot anymore when
we have guys who can more than adequately do the stuff he's good at minus the stuff he's not good at.
Learning how to be NFL TE is one of the hardest things in sports and having Lewis to teach the young guys the tricks of the trade is super valuable.
The other part to consider is that not all blocking is the same. GB really does not have somebody who can do what he does.
Deguara and Dafney are move TEs, but neither has the bulk to line up in 3 pt stance vs a DE and handle him in the run game the way Lewis does. Deguerra and Daffney are much better athletes but they're closer to a "FB" than a TE, while Lewis is closer to an OL than a FB.
And really, the 53rd spot on the roster for a guy who played 40% of the snaps for a team with powerful running game is totally worth it imo.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 15:38
by go pak go
Agreed on all front for Lewis in that I would really love for him to return.
However I think we have paid him a lot the last few years and don't think he should be paid more this year when the cap is squeezed further and he is a year older.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 16:19
by Labrev
BSA wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 15:35
Learning how to be NFL TE is one of the hardest things in sports and having Lewis to teach the young guys the tricks of the trade is super valuable.
I agree that vets are valuable for that reason, but I feel like this gets a bit overstated sometimes. In this case, the young guys have all had a year to learn under him. In Jace and Tonyan's case, two. I am skeptical they would learn much more from another year of him than they would from actual playing experience.
Young guys also lose practice reps when vets are starting ahead of them, and they need it more for their development than the vets do.
At some point, you have to pass the torch.
The other part to consider is that not all blocking is the same. GB really does not have somebody who can do what he does.
Deguara and Dafney are move TEs, but neither has the bulk to line up in 3 pt stance vs a DE and handle him in the run game the way Lewis does. Deguerra and Daffney are much better athletes but they're closer to a "FB" than a TE, while Lewis is closer to an OL than a FB.
And really, the 53rd spot on the roster for a guy who played 40% of the snaps for a team with powerful running game is totally worth it imo.
Alternatively, we can just line up an extra OL out there.
At this point, you probably are not sacrificing any speed to do that, and I'm pretty sure his last year's 10 Rec/100 Yds can be easily matched by replacing his passing game snaps with any combination of the other four.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 16:23
by lupedafiasco
Lewis has not been worth what’s he’s made the last few years. He’s a good blocker and all but his legs are dead.
You’ve got 3 young TEs that need the experience and offer way more in the passing game not to mention Dafney and possible rookies whether they’re drafted or undrafted.
It’s just time to move on.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 16:31
by BSA
Labrev wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 16:19
Young guys also lose practice reps when vets are starting ahead of them, and they need it more for their development than the vets do.
Agreed. But Marcedes doesn't take a lot of reps from them, MLF knows that he doesn't need em and Lewis gets rest days both in camp and during the reg season. And as I said before- those guys play a different role, lining up out wide or behind the LOS, moving around. They aren't inline and they aren't in a 3 point stance. So while they are all listed as TEs - they have different jobs.
Labrev wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 16:19
Alternatively, we can just line up an extra OL out there
You can, but that takes away the intrinsic value of a TE, in that he can and does go out for a pass. That forces the defense to account for him.
He's certainly not a weapon anymore, but MLF puts a huge emphasis on making run/pass look the same, running different plays from similar alignments. If you use an OL, that kills the multiplicity.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 16:36
by Backthepack4ever
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 14:26
to who though, he's still faster then most tackles and blocks just as well, I'd say let him go if we new more about Dequara, but he's a ? mark, and if Sternberger doesn't do better then last year in TC I"D send him packing.
I cant argue any of that yoop. You are right he blocks well. Maybe not faster then Bak but would be a good race
I love the guy and player but at this point hes not making or breaking this team. I would say he would be missed more for leadership then play.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 16:49
by Yoop
Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 16:36
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 14:26
to who though, he's still faster then most tackles and blocks just as well, I'd say let him go if we new more about Dequara, but he's a ? mark, and if Sternberger doesn't do better then last year in TC I"D send him packing.
I cant argue any of that yoop. You are right he blocks well. Maybe not faster then Bak but would be a good race
I love the guy and player but at this point hes not making or breaking this team. I would say he would be missed more for leadership then play.
Lupe pointed out that he only caught 10 Passes for a 100 yrds, but of the 10 catches 3 where for TD's and 6 where for 1st downs, he's a chain mover, I think we've done well getting the best he has to offer at his age, and he's the type player that ages well, I'd bet he's a Packer come August.
he's caught as many passes in 1 year then Sternbergers caught in 2.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 17:20
by lupedafiasco
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 16:49
Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 16:36
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 14:26
to who though, he's still faster then most tackles and blocks just as well, I'd say let him go if we new more about Dequara, but he's a ? mark, and if Sternberger doesn't do better then last year in TC I"D send him packing.
I cant argue any of that yoop. You are right he blocks well. Maybe not faster then Bak but would be a good race
I love the guy and player but at this point hes not making or breaking this team. I would say he would be missed more for leadership then play.
Lupe pointed out that he only caught 10 Passes for a 100 yrds, but of the 10 catches 3 where for TD's and 6 where for 1st downs, he's a chain mover, I think we've done well getting the best he has to offer at his age, and he's the type player that ages well, I'd bet he's a Packer come August.
he's caught as many passes in 1 year then Sternbergers caught in 2.
6 first downs and hes a chain mover huh?
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 17:28
by Yoop
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 17:20
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 16:49
Backthepack4ever wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 16:36
I cant argue any of that yoop. You are right he blocks well. Maybe not faster then Bak but would be a good race
I love the guy and player but at this point hes not making or breaking this team. I would say he would be missed more for leadership then play.
Lupe pointed out that he only caught 10 Passes for a 100 yrds, but of the 10 catches 3 where for TD's and 6 where for 1st downs, he's a chain mover, I think we've done well getting the best he has to offer at his age, and he's the type player that ages well, I'd bet he's a Packer come August.
he's caught as many passes in 1 year then Sternbergers caught in 2.
6 first downs and hes a chain mover huh?
9 out of 10 times, he's moved the chain more then any other TE except Tonyan.
did you even watch Sternberger last year? he sucks, can't run a route, can't block, if I have a choice, knowing that we need a strong side TE that can lay wood I'd take Lewis in a NY minute, he's always been slow, but he's big and can rumble and get ya a 1st down, I want that dependability.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 17:33
by Pckfn23
And yet he had more receptions than Lewis... And the same number of first downs. Jace must be a chain mover too!
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 18:00
by go pak go
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 17:33
And yet he had more receptions than Lewis... And the same number of first downs. Jace must be a chain mover too!
that's not how this works.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 18:01
by go pak go
Yeah I was really on board to bring Lewis.
But I was hoping at a lower price not a higher price. The dude never practices. The dude is slow and as many have stated, we have reinforcements behind him. If we have allocate $2.5 million or so to Lewis to keep him....there are better ways to utilize that at this point.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 18:09
by lupedafiasco
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 17:28
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 17:20
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 16:49
Lupe pointed out that he only caught 10 Passes for a 100 yrds, but of the 10 catches 3 where for TD's and 6 where for 1st downs, he's a chain mover, I think we've done well getting the best he has to offer at his age, and he's the type player that ages well, I'd bet he's a Packer come August.
he's caught as many passes in 1 year then Sternbergers caught in 2.
6 first downs and hes a chain mover huh?
9 out of 10 times, he's moved the chain more then any other TE except Tonyan.
did you even watch Sternberger last year? he sucks, can't run a route, can't block, if I have a choice, knowing that we need a strong side TE that can lay wood I'd take Lewis in a NY minute, he's always been slow, but he's big and can rumble and get ya a 1st down, I want that dependability.
TEs take time to come along. Remember how bad Finley was year one? He couldnt track a ball and couldnt catch a cold. Tonyan didnt do anything year 1 either.
The thing with Lewis is no one on the defense gives a damn if he catches the ball. Most of his receptions were just block and release stuff when the defense forgot about him. We paid him 2.25M last season and he wants more. Im moving on.He shouldnt be making a penny more than 1.5M.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 18:42
by YoHoChecko
lupedafiasco wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 18:09
The thing with Lewis is no one on the defense gives a damn if he catches the ball. Most of his receptions were just block and release stuff when the defense forgot about him. We paid him 2.25M last season and he wants more. Im moving on.He shouldnt be making a penny more than 1.5M.
I don't disagree with you overall, but having a guy the defense forgets about allowing easy completions while also being a dominant blocker the rest of the time isn't necessarily a negative.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 20:04
by Yoop
go pak go wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 18:00
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 17:33
And yet he had more receptions than Lewis... And the same number of first downs. Jace must be a chain mover too!
that's not how this works.
PFF graded Lewis at 67.6 and Sterno at 56.8, I didn't realize Lewis wanted more money, course the guy knows he's the best blocking TE in the league and deserves it.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 20:29
by Backthepack4ever
Yoop wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 20:04
go pak go wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 18:00
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 17:33
And yet he had more receptions than Lewis... And the same number of first downs. Jace must be a chain mover too!
that's not how this works.
PFF graded Lewis at 67.6 and Sterno at 56.8, I didn't realize Lewis wanted more money, course the guy knows he's the best blocking TE in the league and deserves it.
Behind kittle of course...
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 21:11
by Christo
Labrev wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 14:54
meh, I would just move on, even for vet-minimum.
He's slow as molasses in the open field, the only real value he brings is is in his blocking but we get Deguara back, and Dafney proved quite capable as a blocker (and we gave him A LOT of blocking responsibilities when we bumped him to the active roster). Tonyan and Sternberger are not that bad at it, either -- at least, neither one of them is a Jimmy Graham-caliber liability.
The only thing that gives me pause is I don't know who can take Lewis's place as a leader. That doesn't mean that player does not exist, though, or that it alone justifies a roster spot.
I just don't think a 0-upside slow old guy justifies a roster spot anymore when we have guys who can more than adequately do the stuff he's good at minus the stuff he's not good at.
You do realize Rodgers loves the guy, as do the rest of his teammates. As for being slow as molasses, nobody's asking him to run 25 yard out routes.
Right now you have Tonyan [ 1 good year ] Deguara [ coming off a knee injury ] and Sternberger who can't stay healthy.
I think there's a place for Lewis.
Re: General Packer News 2021
Posted: 18 Mar 2021 21:18
by go pak go
Christo wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 21:11
Labrev wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021 14:54
meh, I would just move on, even for vet-minimum.
He's slow as molasses in the open field, the only real value he brings is is in his blocking but we get Deguara back, and Dafney proved quite capable as a blocker (and we gave him A LOT of blocking responsibilities when we bumped him to the active roster). Tonyan and Sternberger are not that bad at it, either -- at least, neither one of them is a Jimmy Graham-caliber liability.
The only thing that gives me pause is I don't know who can take Lewis's place as a leader. That doesn't mean that player does not exist, though, or that it alone justifies a roster spot.
I just don't think a 0-upside slow old guy justifies a roster spot anymore when we have guys who can more than adequately do the stuff he's good at minus the stuff he's not good at.
You do realize Rodgers loves the guy, as do the rest of his teammates. As for being slow as molasses, nobody's asking him to run 25 yard out routes.
Right now you have Tonyan [ 1 good year ] Deguara [ coming off a knee injury ] and Sternberger who can't stay healthy.
I think there's a place for Lewis.
There is absoluely a place for Lewis. But at the right price. There is an even bigger and better place for a good starting CB.