Packers Huddle

The Packers current DVOA defensive ranking is 23rd.

23rd.

(Offensive DVOA ranking is 8).

The play of the defense thus far in 2022 is absolutely unfathomable to me based upon my view of the talent, the past performances of the members of the defense, the lack of serious injuries to date, and the underwhelming level of competition.

I had the day off yesterday and spent considerable time trying to ascertain what others are saying about why the defense is underperforming.

There are a number of explanations being bandied about, but the principal one seems to be that the defense is being held back by a passive, don't give up a big play, heavy reliance on zone, and rarely blitz scheme.

I agree with that explanation.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is a problem that can just be blamed on the defensive coordinator Joe Barry because I came away from way too much time looking into the issue convinced that Barry is employing the scheme Matt Lafleur wants him to employ and the one he specifically hired Barry to implement just last year.

In other words, if the scheme is the number one reason the Packers' defense is performing so far below expectations, or at least my expectations, that performance is unlikely to improve much because the scheme is likely to remain in place, at least for 2022. Thus, while the defense may well get better, my dream of seeing a SF, TB, or now even Dallas (gulp) style attacking defense in Green Bay is probably dead for now.

Really disappointing.

BF004 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2022 19:53

I honestly didn’t think we were blitzing all that much. It seems we are, relative to other teams anyway.

APB wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 05:27

BF004 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2022 19:53

I honestly didn’t think we were blitzing all that much. It seems we are, relative to other teams anyway.

We are in the sense that we will bring 5, but we aren't in the sense that it is always OLB and DL.

So far this season, the Packers have gone up against Kirk Cousins, Justin Fields, Tom Brady (without his top 3 receivers), Brian Hoyer/Bailey Zappe, and Daniel Jones (without 4 of his top receivers).

Somehow, despite this not exactly murder's row of opposing QBs, the Packers have permitted an NFL worst 72.9 completion % and have an NFL low 7 passes defensed. Just mind boggling.

I did not expect the Special Teams to be the worst in the NFL in 2021 but based on years of poor performance I did not expect them to be very good either, so when they turned out to be the worst I was not all that shocked.

In contrast, I firmly believed this would be a top 10 if not top 5 defense in 2022.

At the moment, I don't know if I am more disappointed in the play of the defense or in myself for being so stupid as to think GB would finally field a top defense.

APB wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 05:27

BF004 wrote: ↑

11 Oct 2022 19:53

I honestly didn’t think we were blitzing all that much. It seems we are, relative to other teams anyway.

what gives you that impression, mostly we are playing more 3-4 base front, sure we do blitz, but the pass rush is good because of the 30 fronts, it limits doubling our D lineman

But the Packers’ third-down performance is also a product of their changing fronts. The Packers lead the league in blitz rate on first and second down at 43.2 percent—but they aren’t really blitzing. They’re sending five-plus rushers because of how often they line up in five-down fronts. With three interior defensive linemen flanked by big outside linebackers in Rashan Gary and Preston Smith, the Packers don’t really have anyone they want to drop in coverage off the line (remember how funny it was to watch Smith drop into coverage across from Justin Jefferson?). So they tend to just rush all five.

But that’s … not actually a blitz. The Packers don’t have a defensive back with more than four pass-rushing snaps this season. At linebacker, Smith and Gary are rushing on over 90 percent of their snaps, while the true off-ball linebackers, Quay Walker and De’Vondre Campbell, are rushing on 15.6 percent and 3.9 percent of their snaps, respectively. Campbell’s number is the sixth lowest among NFL linebackers this year.

On early downs, the Packers line up four or five rushers, and send those four or five dudes. They don’t run many stunts or twists, or change where the rushers are coming from. The Packers are one of only two teams with no snaps of only three rushers, and their four total snaps of six-plus rushers is one of the league’s lowest numbers.

Behind those rushers, they play zone coverage—either Cover 3 or quarters. Then they hope that you’ll stumble your way into a third down. When you eventually do, it’s usually a long one. Their pass rushers can tee off, they can play stickier coverage, and they can get off the field.

This is an unacceptably passive, straightforward, and predictable way to play defense. Opposing offenses know what they’re getting from the Packers, and that makes execution easier. Their weak points (defensive tackles not named Kenny Clark; Gary in run defense; Walker in zone conflict) are easier to exploit when they are never relocated or concealed in any way. The Packers are static, and their talented unit underperforms accordingly.

What’s the solution here? The solution is to grow up. Get creative. Assume the other team also has talent and realize that you have to adjust, week to week, half to half, drive to drive if you want to survive in the NFL. Staley’s Rams played tons of quarter-quarter-half to change up zone coverage tendencies and get a safety dropping on the ever-dangerous crossing route—the Packers aren’t doing that. Other Fangio-inspired teams, like the Eagles under Jonathan Gannon, are dropping one of their outside linebackers in their bear fronts to create confusion—the Packers aren’t doing that. The Broncos under Ejiro Evero are gaming the front—the Packers aren’t.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/10/1 ... on-rodgers

I can get not wanting to open up the playbook too much and getting "figured out" late in the year when we need to turn on the jets.

But it's time to abandon all this zone coverage and just go man. That's a personnel thing, not much will be revealed that isn't already known about our DBs/LBs. You win some and you lose some but they will probably be winning a lot more than they are now, and it will probably translate into more success up front if the QB has nowhere to go.

Seems like both the quickest and easiest fix.

Labrev wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 09:44

But it's time to abandon all this zone coverage and just go man. T

We can't do that, but our mix should be much closer to 50/50 than the 80/20 it is now.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 10:22

Labrev wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 09:44

But it's time to abandon all this zone coverage and just go man. T

We can't do that, but our mix should be much closer to 50/50 than the 80/20 it is now.

Yes. Mix it up. Play match ups. Come in and out of it. Doesn't need to be 50/50, either, just what works the best. Some days it may be the 80/20 we are playing now, but when it isn't, GTF out of it.

Yoop wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 09:21

what gives you that impression, mostly we are playing more 3-4 base front, sure we do blitz, but the pass rush is good because of the 30 fronts, it limits doubling our D lineman

See the post from [mention]Pckfn23[/mention] ( ) following this one from you. It's spelled out there.

NCF wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 10:24

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 10:22

Labrev wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 09:44

But it's time to abandon all this zone coverage and just go man. T

We can't do that, but our mix should be much closer to 50/50 than the 80/20 it is now.

Yes. Mix it up. Play match ups. Come in and out of it. Doesn't need to be 50/50, either, just what works the best. Some days it may be the 80/20 we are playing now, but when it isn't, GTF out of it.

I get the coverage of 2 high safety vs QBs like Josh Allen.

I don't get the coverage of "keeping everyting in front of you" vs QBs like Zappe and Daniel Jones with lower tier WRs. We should not be afraid to put Jaire Alexander in a 1 on 1 situation - press man coverage vs a Practice Squad WR when it is 2nd and 19.

My gawd I hated that play.

There are a couple things about Barry that just confound me.

First, he has a pass rush that creates consistent pressure. You would think coupling that rush with playing solid man coverage behind it - you know, the technique our top 3 CBs happen to excel at - would consistently create an extra 0.5 seconds or so for those pressures to turn into sacks. Instead, Barry sits his secondary in a predictable zone and invites the opposing QB to just pick him apart.

I guess his hope is to pressure the QB into a mistake where his CBs can react and create turnovers. I get that. But when the turnovers ain't happening, or worse, when the zone coverage is anticipated, diagnosed immediately and picked apart without errors, it's time to mix things up a bit.

And that leads to the second thing: Barry's absolute refusal to make any adjustments when it's completely obvious his preferred scheme/alignment isn't being effective. I mean, he just sat and watched his defense get gashed drive after drive against Daniel f'ing Jones and didn't think to change anything. Just kept on keepin' on.

I still have high hopes for this defense going forward, there's just too much talent on that side of the ball to lose all hope. But for god's sake, Barry, you can't make it easy for the opposing offense. You've got to incorporate some creativity into your scheme. He doesn't necessarily need to go all mad scientist, either. Just mix things up and disguise the looks. FFS it isn't hard to do.

APB wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 10:27

Yoop wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 09:21

what gives you that impression, mostly we are playing more 3-4 base front, sure we do blitz, but the pass rush is good because of the 30 fronts, it limits doubling our D lineman

See the post from @Pckfn23 ( ) following this one from you. It's spelled out there.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 10:22

Labrev wrote: ↑

12 Oct 2022 09:44

But it's time to abandon all this zone coverage and just go man. T

We can't do that, but our mix should be much closer to 50/50 than the 80/20 it is now.

Oh I agree, not sure why I used the hyperbolic language that I did.

At least he is not being obstinate. I'll take this as a sign things will get better soon.

NCF wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2022 07:22

At least he is not being obstinate. I'll take this as a sign things will get better soon.

Rasul outside will make GPG happy

It's about time Barry woke up and smelled the fire burning in his own locker room, or was it a pink slip Matt showed him if he didn't change his stubborn ways, who cares, as long as this defense improves.

If you want to listen yourself, here is the presser.

Yoop wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2022 07:54

NCF wrote: ↑

14 Oct 2022 07:22

At least he is not being obstinate. I'll take this as a sign things will get better soon.

Rasul outside will make GPG happy

It's about time Barry woke up and smelled the fire burning in his own locker room, or was it a pink slip Matt showed him if he didn't change his stubborn ways, who cares, as long as this defense improves.

Now let these corners press every now and then and start doing sh*t with your ILBs.