Rodgers wants out

[Drj820]

What is interesting to me you see that you shouldn’t compare love to rodgers or expect love to be like Rodgers (I completely agree)

But then often the same people bring up rodgers second year appearance against New England to...i think...say, Rodgers sucked in year two and turned out great, so can Love.

Because I don’t want to compare love to Rodgers, I also won’t think that their career arch’s should be compared in year two.

The game film of Rodgers appearance coming off the bench in year 2 against the Pats does not impact my opinions or evaluation of Love one bit.

I didn't bring it up. He did.

Texas said Rodgers wasn't complete garbage... when he was.

I remember VERY well how completely garbage the whole world though Aaron Rodgers was until his 3rd preseason. It was literally the biggest story in Packersworld for like 2-3 years. To be fair to me, I didn't pre-judge Rodgers, either. But the fact that he got himself injured twice in reserve roles when Ironman Favre was out there was held against him greatly, and out on the field he looked a bit lost.

I don't like what I've seen from Love much, but if you want to make the case that a great QB would have showed something by now, and you bring up Rodgers as any bar for comparison, we're gonna call it out. Rodgers stunk in Baltimore as a rookie, and I was at that game, 10-12 feet from Ted Thompson who spent the whole game looking like he'd seen a ghost (or looking like he later looked every day about 10 years later). I remember how bad he was very clearly. And he stunk in year two in New England, albeit briefly.

And that obviously doesn't mean everyone who stinks early will get better over time; but it is a case for making no assumptions based on a couple of reserve halves of football in a player's first couple of years. We're not making the comparison to say Love will be Rodgers. We're using logic to point out that Rodgers is an example of evidence that players can struggle early in their QBing careers as small sample-size reserves-in-waiting without that having much relevance to how their career pans out. It's not a rationally inconsistent use of comparisons.

I didn’t actually say anyone specific because I didn’t want to misquote anyone. Just figured it would be “if the shoe fits kind of thing” but that argument that you are defending...is unfair to love.

Because it compares him to Rodgers. Who if he was as awful as you describe, is the biggest outlier in the history of the game outside of maybe Brady of examples of people who sucked and then went God Mode. When you use Rodgers as that example, you are using an extreme outlier. You aren’t comparing Love to anything close to the norm at all.

So I just choose to not compare Rodgers to Love.

[Pckfn23]

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Steve Young
Joe Montana
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner

That's only picking from the list of top 25 QBs of all time... Not sure it is as much of an outlier as you want to believe.

[bud fox]

If Rodgers leaves and Love takes over people comparing Love to Rodgers are in for a very tough time.

Rodgers is extremely unique - IQ, Arm, Work Ethic - special player.

It is basically impossible to have 3 HOF QBS back to back.

[Drj820]

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Steve Young
Joe Montana
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner

That's only picking from the list of top 25 QBs of all time... Not sure it is as much of an outlier as you want to believe.

???

I only said Brady because of his draft position. Bradys first year as a starter he was 11-3.
Joe Montanas first year as a starter he was 13-3. His second year he had top 5 highest completion percentages of his career and threw 15 tds.
Kurt Warner is a nice example on the surface, but he was just waiting for his opportunity. His second year in the NFL, first year as a starter..he was
13-3.
Statistically i do give you Steve young..looks like a nice example.

So you are comfortable with making direct comparisons between Love in year two and Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young? I am not gonna do that to Love. Comparing two QBs who allegedly sucked and then went on to be HOFers when there are hundreds who sucked and went on to be high school football coaches (honorable career), is not fair to love.

[texas]

Wait, what has now made this look more likely? Love's game yesterday?

The thawing of the ice between him and management. Going into the season, the predominant opinion was that we were headed for divorce because Rodgers no longer wanted to be a Packer because of management (but that we wanted him, but also could stand to gain so many draft picks that it wouldn't be so terrible to move on).

Now the presumption is that the ice has melted, everyone is happy, and that he possibly will retire but people aren't thinking we're headed for divorce anymore.

1 year ago today there was no need to presume anything, because there was no thing, until there was a thing. Couple that with the answer given to the question, "So you like being a Green Bay Packer," and I don't think we can say that "everyone is happy." Everyone is happy because we are winning. That doesn't mean everything is fine between the 2 parties.

Ok, great, so there are still many who doubt (or possibly doubt) that things are fine, including you. The sense I get is that the majority opinion now is that things are fine. But maybe not.

Either way, I'm still of the position (as I was in September) that things will work out with Rodgers being a Packer next year.

[bud fox]

Always find it funny how some posters say they don't hate Rodgers or downplay his value but are always on the negative side of any Rodgers discussion.

We have recent evidence of Aaron Rodgers play this year and of Jordan Love's play. I know who I want.

[Drj820]

Always find it funny how some posters say they don't hate Rodgers or downplay his value but are always on the negative side of any Rodgers discussion.

We have recent evidence of Aaron Rodgers play this year and of Jordan Love's play. I know who I want.

Lucky for you, both are under contract with the Packers next year!

[bud fox]

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Steve Young
Joe Montana
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner

That's only picking from the list of top 25 QBs of all time... Not sure it is as much of an outlier as you want to believe.

???

I only said Brady because of his draft position. Bradys first year as a starter he was 11-3.
Joe Montanas first year as a starter he was 13-3. His second year he had top 5 highest completion percentages of his career and threw 15 tds.
Kurt Warner is a nice example on the surface, but he was just waiting for his opportunity. His second year in the NFL, first year as a starter..he was
13-3.
Statistically i do give you Steve young..looks like a nice example.

So you are comfortable with making direct comparisons between Love in year two and Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young? I am not gonna do that to Love. Comparing two QBs who allegedly sucked and then went on to be HOFers when there are hundreds who sucked and went on to be high school football coaches (honorable career), is not fair to love.

Rodgers didn't suck - I know you know this. People using a subbed in game against a pats team allowing 14.8 points a game.

There was a video piece on Rodgers years ago which had packers brass/coaches stating that when Rodgers came back for his second year he was doing unbelievable things in practice. They knew they had something special.

Never heard that on Love.

[Drj820]

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Steve Young
Joe Montana
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner

That's only picking from the list of top 25 QBs of all time... Not sure it is as much of an outlier as you want to believe.

???

I only said Brady because of his draft position. Bradys first year as a starter he was 11-3.
Joe Montanas first year as a starter he was 13-3. His second year he had top 5 highest completion percentages of his career and threw 15 tds.
Kurt Warner is a nice example on the surface, but he was just waiting for his opportunity. His second year in the NFL, first year as a starter..he was
13-3.
Statistically i do give you Steve young..looks like a nice example.

So you are comfortable with making direct comparisons between Love in year two and Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young? I am not gonna do that to Love. Comparing two QBs who allegedly sucked and then went on to be HOFers when there are hundreds who sucked and went on to be high school football coaches (honorable career), is not fair to love.

Rodgers didn't suck - I know you know this. People using a subbed in game against a pats team allowing 14.8 points a game.

There was a video piece on Rodgers years ago which had packers brass/coaches stating that when Rodgers came back for his second year he was doing unbelievable things in practice. They knew they had something special.

Never heard that on Love.

I too have heard that the team knew they had something special with Rodgers and had made the decision to move forward with him, therefore they were unaffected in resolve by Favres retirement flip flops. I have not sensed the same calmness in the org over the current situation.

[Pckfn23]

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Steve Young
Joe Montana
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner

That's only picking from the list of top 25 QBs of all time... Not sure it is as much of an outlier as you want to believe.

???

I only said Brady because of his draft position. Bradys first year as a starter he was 11-3.
Joe Montanas first year as a starter he was 13-3. His second year he had top 5 highest completion percentages of his career and threw 15 tds.
Kurt Warner is a nice example on the surface, but he was just waiting for his opportunity. His second year in the NFL, first year as a starter..he was
13-3.
Statistically i do give you Steve young..looks like a nice example.

So you are comfortable with making direct comparisons between Love in year two and Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young? I am not gonna do that to Love. Comparing two QBs who allegedly sucked and then went on to be HOFers when there are hundreds who sucked and went on to be high school football coaches (honorable career), is not fair to love.

Lol, I didn't make a comparison. I didn't to even mention Love. Why are you only saying first year as a starter. Ha. Nice try. The original comment wasn't even about Rodgers first year as a starter, it was about his 2nd year in the league.

[YoHoChecko]

I too have heard that the team knew they had something special with Rodgers and had made the decision to move forward with him, therefore they were unaffected in resolve by Favres retirement flip flops. I have not sensed the same calmness in the org over the current situation.

I love the assessment of 2005 through 2007 as a period of "calmness" within the organization.

Honestly, ya'll trying to re-write history about the public perception of Aaron Rodgers his first few years is doing nothing but sapping your commentary of credibility. Everyone remembers the boos, the injuries, the talking heads, the Chris Collinsworth "the Packers aren't going to win many games with Aaron Rodgers" comment, the fire Ted website, the occasional death threats.... like, it was absolute chaos. Between just plain loyalty to Favre, uncertainty about what we had in Rodgers, brief glimpses of poor performances... all this "yeah, everyone felt good about it" talk is absolutely insane.

There's just no version of reality in which the first two seasons of Rodgers' NFL career could be called promising or calm. It simply is not true.

[bud fox]

I too have heard that the team knew they had something special with Rodgers and had made the decision to move forward with him, therefore they were unaffected in resolve by Favres retirement flip flops. I have not sensed the same calmness in the org over the current situation.

I love the assessment of 2005 through 2007 as a period of "calmness" within the organization.

Honestly, ya'll trying to re-write history about the public perception of Aaron Rodgers his first few years is doing nothing but sapping your commentary of credibility. Everyone remembers the boos, the injuries, the talking heads, the Chris Collinsworth "the Packers aren't going to win many games with Aaron Rodgers" comment, the fire Ted website, the occasional death threats.... like, it was absolute chaos. Between just plain loyalty to Favre, uncertainty about what we had in Rodgers, brief glimpses of poor performances... all this "yeah, everyone felt good about it" talk is absolutely insane.

There's just no version of reality in which the first two seasons of Rodgers' NFL career could be called promising or calm. It simply is not true.

Well then those packer people are lying.

I didn't mention the media but the media was crazy all the way up to Brett leaving and beyond. They had no idea what the packers knew.

Dr was just trying to say everyone should have measured expectations of Love. Do you truly expect him to ever get to Rodgers level? I didn't expect Rodgers to get to Favre's level. It happened once I would be even more shocked if it happened again.

[salmar80]

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Steve Young
Joe Montana
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner

That's only picking from the list of top 25 QBs of all time... Not sure it is as much of an outlier as you want to believe.

???

I only said Brady because of his draft position. Bradys first year as a starter he was 11-3.
Joe Montanas first year as a starter he was 13-3. His second year he had top 5 highest completion percentages of his career and threw 15 tds.
Kurt Warner is a nice example on the surface, but he was just waiting for his opportunity. His second year in the NFL, first year as a starter..he was
13-3.
Statistically i do give you Steve young..looks like a nice example.

So you are comfortable with making direct comparisons between Love in year two and Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young? I am not gonna do that to Love. Comparing two QBs who allegedly sucked and then went on to be HOFers when there are hundreds who sucked and went on to be high school football coaches (honorable career), is not fair to love.

I think the point is that if you had made judgements on a lot of HoF QBs after as many NFL snaps as Love has under his belt now, there are a bunch that looked pretty horrible at that point.

Which doesn't mean Love is destined for greatness. Rather illustrates how little we can tell from this small of a sample size. But judge away. You'll most likely be right. The chance of Love becoming a great player is slim.

Actually: If one wants to feel good about their ability to scout NFL prospects, then one should just claim that NONE one of them will be great. One would be automatically correct vast majority of the time. No need for any proof or waiting for meaningful evidence or tiresome tape watching. A cynic really couldn't lose!

[Drj820]

Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Steve Young
Joe Montana
Brett Favre
Kurt Warner

That's only picking from the list of top 25 QBs of all time... Not sure it is as much of an outlier as you want to believe.

???

I only said Brady because of his draft position. Bradys first year as a starter he was 11-3.
Joe Montanas first year as a starter he was 13-3. His second year he had top 5 highest completion percentages of his career and threw 15 tds.
Kurt Warner is a nice example on the surface, but he was just waiting for his opportunity. His second year in the NFL, first year as a starter..he was
13-3.
Statistically i do give you Steve young..looks like a nice example.

So you are comfortable with making direct comparisons between Love in year two and Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young? I am not gonna do that to Love. Comparing two QBs who allegedly sucked and then went on to be HOFers when there are hundreds who sucked and went on to be high school football coaches (honorable career), is not fair to love.

Lol, I didn't make a comparison. I didn't to even mention Love. Why are you only saying first year as a starter. Ha. Nice try. The original comment wasn't even about Rodgers first year as a starter, it was about his 2nd year in the league.

Oh ok, ya you were responding to me when you said “not as much as an outlier as you might think” so thought you were responding to me saying IF Rodgers allegedly sucked like it is being said he did...than he is an extreme outlier in sucking after multiple years in the league and then going on to be a HOFer.

Now I see you were just mentioning names and talking about something no one else was talking about. Got it

I went back and bolded the part in my post I assumed you were responding to

[YoHoChecko]

Dr was just trying to say everyone should have measured expectations of Love. Do you truly expect him to ever get to Rodgers level? I didn't expect Rodgers to get to Favre's level. It happened once I would be even more shocked if it happened again.

No that's what's nuts about this.

Like I am here arguing, and I know there are other commentors. But like, I have said that Jordan Love has not looked good; that he has proven nothing; that he has left us uncertain and not knowing what to expect from him in the future. I didn't expect Rodgers to be much more than an efficient ball distributor. I thought he was the kind of guy you could win with but wasn't special. So yeah.

I have expressly stated that I do not make this comparison to say that Jordan Love can or will ever be Rodgers. I am simply using an example to show that very limited sample sizes over the first couple years of a QB's career, coming in in reserve action, is not necessarily indicative of that player's future or overall quality. The future cannot be proven. I get the impression that many people are looking to project the future of Love, and are using his poor performances to sap themselves of hope for his future. I am not trying to prove the future. I am using examples to show that the future isn't knowable. I could (and have) use converse examples such as Vince Young to show that early success also does not necessarily mean career success.

My ONLY point is that the fact that Jordan Love doesn't look good right now doesn't tell us what kind of career he'll have, and because Rodgers developed right here, under our noses, and created a massive uproar of drama and derision, I thought remembering how that transpired and how dicey and ugly the situation was at times during the first two to three years, might be a good reminder for everyone to allow the process to play out. But if people are just going to pretend that Rodgers was getting glowing reviews over his first two years and that everyone felt calm and confident about moving on from Favre, well then... you're just making things up. And I can't argue with someone who has no loyalty to facts.

[Pckfn23]

???

I only said Brady because of his draft position. Bradys first year as a starter he was 11-3.
Joe Montanas first year as a starter he was 13-3. His second year he had top 5 highest completion percentages of his career and threw 15 tds.
Kurt Warner is a nice example on the surface, but he was just waiting for his opportunity. His second year in the NFL, first year as a starter..he was
13-3.
Statistically i do give you Steve young..looks like a nice example.

So you are comfortable with making direct comparisons between Love in year two and Aaron Rodgers and Steve Young? I am not gonna do that to Love. Comparing two QBs who allegedly sucked and then went on to be HOFers when there are hundreds who sucked and went on to be high school football coaches (honorable career), is not fair to love.

Lol, I didn't make a comparison. I didn't to even mention Love. Why are you only saying first year as a starter. Ha. Nice try. The original comment wasn't even about Rodgers first year as a starter, it was about his 2nd year in the league.

Oh ok, ya you were responding to me when you said “not as much as an outlier as you might think” so thought you were responding to me saying IF Rodgers allegedly sucked like it is being said he did...than he is an extreme outlier in sucking after multiple years in the league and then going on to be a HOFer.

Now I see you were just mentioning names and talking about something no one else was talking about. Got it

I went back and bolded the part in my post I assumed you were responding to

Ha! Oh, you weren't talking about it?

Who if he was as awful as you describe, is the biggest outlier in the history of the game outside of maybe Brady of examples of people who sucked and then went God Mode. When you use Rodgers as that example, you are using an extreme outlier.

Oh wait, you were... Nice try gaslighting!

[Drj820]

Dr was just trying to say everyone should have measured expectations of Love. Do you truly expect him to ever get to Rodgers level? I didn't expect Rodgers to get to Favre's level. It happened once I would be even more shocked if it happened again.

No that's what's nuts about this.

Like I am here arguing, and I know there are other commentors. But like, I have said that Jordan Love has not looked good; that he has proven nothing; that he has left us uncertain and not knowing what to expect from him in the future. I didn't expect Rodgers to be much more than an efficient ball distributor. I thought he was the kind of guy you could win with but wasn't special. So yeah.

I have expressly stated that I do not make this comparison to say that Jordan Love can or will ever be Rodgers. I am simply using an example to show that very limited sample sizes over the first couple years of a QB's career, coming in in reserve action, is not necessarily indicative of that player's future or overall quality. The future cannot be proven. I get the impression that many people are looking to project the future of Love, and are using his poor performances to sap themselves of hope for his future. I am not trying to prove the future. I am using examples to show that the future isn't knowable. I could (and have) use converse examples such as Vince Young to show that early success also does not necessarily mean career success.

My ONLY point is that the fact that Jordan Love doesn't look good right now doesn't tell us what kind of career he'll have, and because Rodgers developed right here, under our noses, and created a massive uproar of drama and derision, I thought remembering how that transpired and how dicey and ugly the situation was at times during the first two to three years, might be a good reminder for everyone to allow the process to play out. But if people are just going to pretend that Rodgers was getting glowing reviews over his first two years and that everyone felt calm and confident about moving on from Favre, well then... you're just making things up. And I can't argue with someone who has no loyalty to facts.

All we are saying is people within the org had been wowd by Rodgers at practice and had felt resolve about moving on from Favre in favor of Rodgers.

We aren’t talking fans, message board people, or media. We are talking people within the org who made the decision to move on. Which they did make.

You dispute this?

[Drj820]

Lol, I didn't make a comparison. I didn't to even mention Love. Why are you only saying first year as a starter. Ha. Nice try. The original comment wasn't even about Rodgers first year as a starter, it was about his 2nd year in the league.

Oh ok, ya you were responding to me when you said “not as much as an outlier as you might think” so thought you were responding to me saying IF Rodgers allegedly sucked like it is being said he did...than he is an extreme outlier in sucking after multiple years in the league and then going on to be a HOFer.

Now I see you were just mentioning names and talking about something no one else was talking about. Got it

I went back and bolded the part in my post I assumed you were responding to

Ha! Oh, you weren't talking about it?

Who if he was as awful as you describe, is the biggest outlier in the history of the game outside of maybe Brady of examples of people who sucked and then went God Mode. When you use Rodgers as that example, you are using an extreme outlier.

Oh wait, you were... Nice try gaslighting!

Dont even know what you talking about. I’m gonna debate Love with people that can follow conversations. Have a nice evening.

[bud fox]

Dr was just trying to say everyone should have measured expectations of Love. Do you truly expect him to ever get to Rodgers level? I didn't expect Rodgers to get to Favre's level. It happened once I would be even more shocked if it happened again.

No that's what's nuts about this.

Like I am here arguing, and I know there are other commentors. But like, I have said that Jordan Love has not looked good; that he has proven nothing; that he has left us uncertain and not knowing what to expect from him in the future. I didn't expect Rodgers to be much more than an efficient ball distributor. I thought he was the kind of guy you could win with but wasn't special. So yeah.

I have expressly stated that I do not make this comparison to say that Jordan Love can or will ever be Rodgers. I am simply using an example to show that very limited sample sizes over the first couple years of a QB's career, coming in in reserve action, is not necessarily indicative of that player's future or overall quality. The future cannot be proven. I get the impression that many people are looking to project the future of Love, and are using his poor performances to sap themselves of hope for his future. I am not trying to prove the future. I am using examples to show that the future isn't knowable. I could (and have) use converse examples such as Vince Young to show that early success also does not necessarily mean career success.

My ONLY point is that the fact that Jordan Love doesn't look good right now doesn't tell us what kind of career he'll have, and because Rodgers developed right here, under our noses, and created a massive uproar of drama and derision, I thought remembering how that transpired and how dicey and ugly the situation was at times during the first two to three years, might be a good reminder for everyone to allow the process to play out. But if people are just going to pretend that Rodgers was getting glowing reviews over his first two years and that everyone felt calm and confident about moving on from Favre, well then... you're just making things up. And I can't argue with someone who has no loyalty to facts.

Yuh that is fair. There is a chance he could be great at some stage.

At the moment my best guess is that he won't ever play a full season as starting QB. I think Rodgers stays and Love will leave at some stage and go to a team in a QB battle and maybe is named opening starter but won't last the year, as those teams are generally bad.

[Pckfn23]

Oh ok, ya you were responding to me when you said “not as much as an outlier as you might think” so thought you were responding to me saying IF Rodgers allegedly sucked like it is being said he did...than he is an extreme outlier in sucking after multiple years in the league and then going on to be a HOFer.

Now I see you were just mentioning names and talking about something no one else was talking about. Got it

I went back and bolded the part in my post I assumed you were responding to

Ha! Oh, you weren't talking about it?

Who if he was as awful as you describe, is the biggest outlier in the history of the game outside of maybe Brady of examples of people who sucked and then went God Mode. When you use Rodgers as that example, you are using an extreme outlier.

Oh wait, you were... Nice try gaslighting!

Dont even know what you talking about. I’m gonna debate Love with people that can follow conversations. Have a nice evening.

I imagine that would be tough when you can't even follow your own comments/thoughts.

Let me help and make it simple. You stated Rodgers going from suck to God was an extreme outlier. I brought a handful of examples to show that it really isn't an extreme outlier.