2020 General Draft Discussion

[Pckfn23]

One thought I have had and let roll around in my head is that with so little media contact with these players since the beginning of March. There might be a huge divide with what the media thinks and with what teams think. I believe that was the case to an extent this year. There were some bafflingly high picks that the media ranked low and some guys picked low that the media loved, more so that in other years.

I also think that with teams being so isolated they developed their own opinions on players and to an extent didn't know what other teams were thinking. This could lead to some reaches and such.

Now I was thinking this before our unorthodox draft. I believe that you may really get to see what the best scouting departments are because of these rankings in isolation.

So to conclude, either the Packers are utterly good at what they do or they screwed the pooch and their scouts need a thorough cleaning. We probably won't know that answer for 3-4 years.

[YoHoChecko]

MVS had 3 big ones

Chicago, at KC and I think against MN.

Lazard had at Detroit and against Oakland (it was the play right before Kumerow)

What's also interesting though. Is every game that showed a drop (except one smaller drop vs LAC)...the Packers still won. Drops weren't reasons we lost games.

They were close....but not the reason.

I think my favorite was the one where Graham sorta ended up chucking the ball behind him as he fell backwards.

Honestly, I'm in a weirdly good mood right now where I have no problem laughing at this calamity of errors--both the draft grades and the drops. Its the offseason! What's done is done. Stoked to move forward, and happy to be a Packers fan! (I just got off the phone with my new girlfriend who asked me why I was a Packers fan, so I got to re-live the whole story and experience again; feeling that packers pride, ya know?)

[YoHoChecko]

One thought I have had and let roll around in my head is that with so little media contact with these players since the beginning of March. There might be a huge divide with what the media thinks and with what teams think. I believe that was the case to an extent this year. There were some bafflingly high picks that the media ranked low and some guys picked low that the media loved, more so that in other years.

I also think that with teams being so isolated they developed their own opinions on players and to an extent didn't know what other teams were thinking. This could lead to some reaches and such.

Now I was thinking this before our unorthodox draft. I believe that you may really get to see what the best scouting departments are because of these rankings in isolation.

So to conclude, either the Packers are utterly good at what they do or they screwed the pooch and their scouts need a thorough cleaning. We probably won't know that answer for 3-4 years.

Yeah, a handful of reporters were saying that teams were telling them this before the draft--that it would be VERY different from media expectations, and that teams have way less groupthink because they haven't been at the Pro Days together and comparing notes as often through casual interactions.

I think it was Gutey before the draft talking about getting started in the 90s when the internet was barely a part of life and how much this year's preparation felt a lot more like that (in terms of the teams being separated and having less common info--obviously there was a lot more in-person stuff at the Pro Days then, also, that didn't happen). But it might not have been Gutey; mighta just been some random GM I heard in an interview.

[APB]

I don’t typically put a lot of stock in these immediate post-draft grading pieces but I’ll be damned if I can find a single analyst who gives the Packers draft a positive grade. Some of them are brutal.

Some respected posters here have managed to talk the collective forum off the ledge but there is no denying there are a lot of questions about this draft. I’m not sold yet whether this draft was good or bad. Won’t know that for some time. Can’t deny I’m feeling a little less than positive, though.

[Waldo]

I don’t typically put a lot of stock in these immediate post-draft grading pieces but I’ll be damned if I can find a single analyst who gives the Packers draft a positive grade. Some of them are brutal.

Some respected posters here have managed to talk the collective forum off the ledge but there is no denying there are a lot of questions about this draft. I’m not sold yet whether this draft was good or bad. Won’t know that for some time. Can’t deny I’m feeling a little less than positive, though.

Well its all about the QB. He hits and its an A- draft minimum. He misses and best it could be is a B/B-. Realistically, outside of Love, you could have 4-5 starters if everything goes well (OLx2, RB, MLB, H Back). Unlikely, but also I think the chance of 3 starters (OL, RB, H Back) has a pretty high probability, which would be worth a decent draft grade even ignoring Love.

[YoHoChecko]

I don’t typically put a lot of stock in these immediate post-draft grading pieces but I’ll be damned if I can find a single analyst who gives the Packers draft a positive grade. Some of them are brutal.

Some respected posters here have managed to talk the collective forum off the ledge but there is no denying there are a lot of questions about this draft. I’m not sold yet whether this draft was good or bad. Won’t know that for some time. Can’t deny I’m feeling a little less than positive, though.

I'm in the very weird position, which I have outlined a bit, of being one of those posters talking people off of ledges while also being extremely disappointed that we didn't get a top flight WR or ILB while also being extremely excited that the Packers took 2 of my favorites in this draft and another in the next tier down (Deguara and Runyan, Dillon) while also being disappointed that we didn't seem to maximize the value of our draft capital through moving around and manipulating the board while also being pretty excited about Jordan Love the player.

The result is pretty neutral. But more in a "let's put it behind us and be excited by what we have rather than dwelling on what we don't," even though we all share the same concerns about what we don't, to wildly varying degrees of course.

We were a good team last year, and we'll be a good team this year. Let's see how good

[Pugger]

you make my point, they didn't do enough either, why do you keep comparing us to other teams, NE is the bench mark, yet I've never said anything about winning a BUNCH of SB's, can't I want to win just one or two more then we have, or for that matter expect to at least play in them.

I'm comparing us to other teams because I have long held the mantra that evaluation requires you to compare against peers, rather than against perfection.

You're right, though, New England is the gold standard. And here's the thing (two things) I'll just say.

• Bill Belichick is the best football coach at least in the modern era. There is only one of him.

• Tom Brady is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers (not more talented, but better). I have long said I want Aaron Rodger sto be Tom Brady when he grows up. What I mean by that is that as Rodgers' escapability and mobility becomes less a part of his game, I want him to win by getting the ball out quickly and not taking sacks. By moving the ball methodically and not fishing for big plays. By winning with that great, beautiful brain of his more than with that rare golden arm of his.

If Rodgers adjusts his game as he ages, there's NO reason the Packers can't win the next 3 Super Bowls (plenty of reasons why they might not, but no reason why they can't). But he seemed to be going the opposite direction in the latter years of MM. That's why it was time for a change. That's why I support paying big money for the defense and investing in running. Rodgers takes too many sacks, he holds the ball too long, and he throws WAY too many 50/50 heaves instead of finding an easier outlet. I's not because he's not talented. It's not because he's not smart. It's not because his team sucks. It's because he's been honing the wrong skills and practicing the wrong approach for a QB moving toward his late 30s.

Aaron Rodgers can do it. He is SO talented; he has a firm grasp on football. But I want to see more Brees and Brady in his game these days than I used to. Those guys focus on COMPLETING passes and doing it quickly. Risks are measured; the safe completion is prioritized on early downs and early in games. Heck, even look at Favre. He had the best completion percentages of his career in his last year with us and his following years with the Jets and Vikings (his 3 highest were 2007, 2008, and 2009). And he went to two NFC Championship games with 2 different teams in those 3 years.

That's what I want. Tom Brady does it. And it's one of the reasons why he's the best. And that's one of the reasons why the Patriots win so much (and Belichick. Always Belichick.)

This post is what Rodgers has to embrace going forward. He has to learn to take what the damn defense gives him instead of trying to hit the home run on every drive. And I don't think Gute and/or MLF were sending a message to AR by drafting Love. They were thinking of the future because #12 ain't no spring chicken. They had a chance to acquire a QB with a ton of upside even this late in the round and they took it.

[Yoop]

what else can a Packer fan do but hope the GM did the right thing, it's job security, baring the team having a total collapse Guty will get the time it takes for Love to prove himself one way or anothe, I wasn't happy with last years draft, or this one, he just spent another top pick on backup player, barring injury and both could be backups there entire rookie contract.

meanwhile last years SB winner got more explosive for the coming season, I'am just not feeling the Love thing here.

[British]

I'm revelling in the F grades.

Will be fun to look back at them in 5 years time if Love hits and/or we've won a Superbowl with Rodgers and some of the these players in that time.

[Yoop]

I love how people that want to support the draft also want to wait until most people don't care, then grade that particulor class, on the surface this draft class garnered a QB that needs a lot of grooming, a reach at RB and TE and a bunch of maybe's, so right now it gets a D grade, and it's deserving of it.

[paco]

All you have to do is go back and look at draft grades every year and see how nobody knows squat. Here's 3 for you from USA Today in 2017...

8. Christian McCaffrey, RB Stanford — Carolina Panthers
Grade: D+
Analysis: McCaffrey will be make the Panthers offense better. Like Darren Sproles, he’ll make an impact on all four downs. But is he worth a No. 8 pick? I’m not so sure. You can get a good running back in the later rounds. Dalvin Cook may end up a better NFL running back and he didn’t even go in the first round.

10. Patrick Mahomes, QB Texas Tech — Kansas City Chiefs (from Buffalo)
Grade: C-
Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.

12. Deshaun Watson, QB Clemson — Houston Texans (from CLE via PHI)
Grade: C+
Analysis: The Texans finally get their quarterback of the future. Or so they think. I’m not so sure Watson will ever develop into a top QB, but he’ll be an improvement over what they’ve had in Houston the last few years. That’s not saying a whole lot. The Clemson star needs to hit the deep ball more consistently and do a better job of reading defenses.

[Drj820]

Just heard an interview with niners gm john lynch. He is very impressive. He was saying some interesting things about their draft setup, and how they have been able to hit on so many skill players. He said he wasnt the one making all the calls in the draft for potential trades. He had 8 teams, and 3 other niners staff members also had 8 teams each that they would be responsible for negotiating with. Once that staff member had a deal with another team, they would present the offer for lynch to make a final decision on. He said he really had to trust other people this year, but he did and thats why they tied for the most trades in the draft.

He also said part of the reason they have drafted well is because they have put an emphasis on getting to know the college coaches. He praised South Carolinas muschamp for being really honest with them about Deebo samuel last year, and that made them trust special insight he gave about kinlaw this year. Also said they wanted Aiyuk very early and would have probably taken him even at 14 if Kinlaw wasnt available. He said his relationship with Herm edwards allowed him to believe that the 4.5 he ran at the combine was just a bad run and he played much faster. I completely agree with that as Aiyuk was my WR draft darling.

As kind of a side point, He also praised SEC players because they have tons of tape of going against guys who will probably be in the NFL one day also. He said that makes them easier to evaluate. I completely agree with this thought. The packers have a total of 10 players from the sec on the roster. Ive always wondered about the quality of our scouts in the South East region of the country. This scout has pointed us toward Montravious adams, Oren Burks, and what looks like a great pick with elgton jenkins. The other two drafted players from the sec are special teamers Jk Scott and Hunter Bradley. Thats it, a total of 5 drafted by the packers players from the hot bed of football in the country. 2 of our best FA additions came from the SEC in Preston and Zdarius smith, the rest of the players are wire pick ups or UDFAs.

Beyond that little side tangent,

I wonder if that draft set up was unique/cunning edge, or if thats how everyone does it? I wonder if Gutey has those kinds of relationships with college coaches around the country? Just with being impressed with Lynch tenure as GM, it led me to wonder if our front office can learn from them, or if they are just doing very standard stuff well.

[Freewheelingutey]

I mean it is a crap shoot. Who knows if the 2nd and 3rd round guys will play much. I am sure this whole lock down thing isn't going to help their development, maybe they're smart guys who can learn quickly. It might be hard for a new to develop chemistry with Rodgers no practice too.
After a few days of stewing..I hope this team is improved, but not sure if the defense will be any better. Still need a run stuffer or 2. Ilb is also alot of hoping and praying with these guys.

[Yoop]

All you have to do is go back and look at draft grades every year and see how nobody knows squat. Here's 3 for you from USA Today in 2017...

8. Christian McCaffrey, RB Stanford — Carolina Panthers
Grade: D+
Analysis: McCaffrey will be make the Panthers offense better. Like Darren Sproles, he’ll make an impact on all four downs. But is he worth a No. 8 pick? I’m not so sure. You can get a good running back in the later rounds. Dalvin Cook may end up a better NFL running back and he didn’t even go in the first round.

10. Patrick Mahomes, QB Texas Tech — Kansas City Chiefs (from Buffalo)
Grade: C-
Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.

12. Deshaun Watson, QB Clemson — Houston Texans (from CLE via PHI)
Grade: C+
Analysis: The Texans finally get their quarterback of the future. Or so they think. I’m not so sure Watson will ever develop into a top QB, but he’ll be an improvement over what they’ve had in Houston the last few years. That’s not saying a whole lot. The Clemson star needs to hit the deep ball more consistently and do a better job of reading defenses.

sorry I didn't explain myself better, let me try again, when a GM takes players most draft niks rate as a round or so early it's graded as a reach, thats just how it happens, so absolutely many turn out to be wrong, a lot of variables are involved that determine success, plus we took a qb that in all likelyhood will hold a clip board till ???? that's rarely gonna get a plus.

I still think Ron Wolf was spot on, even more so now with UFA, if you can produce 2 starter talent players from every draft class, then it was a successful draft, right now I think we did that with the 2nd and 3rd rounders, but thats best guess, and from a biased Packer fan, I wouldn't expect a lot of agreement bout that from anyone though, specially some neutral party rating team drafts, I think my point was lost some where, in there, I'am holding out hope that we get a couple WR's in the supplamental draft, guys with some name recognition that the graders have heard of so they can throw some LOVE our way (no pun intended)

[British]

All you have to do is go back and look at draft grades every year and see how nobody knows squat. Here's 3 for you from USA Today in 2017...

8. Christian McCaffrey, RB Stanford — Carolina Panthers
Grade: D+
Analysis: McCaffrey will be make the Panthers offense better. Like Darren Sproles, he’ll make an impact on all four downs. But is he worth a No. 8 pick? I’m not so sure. You can get a good running back in the later rounds. Dalvin Cook may end up a better NFL running back and he didn’t even go in the first round.

10. Patrick Mahomes, QB Texas Tech — Kansas City Chiefs (from Buffalo)
Grade: C-
Analysis: Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick.

12. Deshaun Watson, QB Clemson — Houston Texans (from CLE via PHI)
Grade: C+
Analysis: The Texans finally get their quarterback of the future. Or so they think. I’m not so sure Watson will ever develop into a top QB, but he’ll be an improvement over what they’ve had in Houston the last few years. That’s not saying a whole lot. The Clemson star needs to hit the deep ball more consistently and do a better job of reading defenses.

sorry I didn't explain myself better, let me try again, when a GM takes players most draft niks rate as a round or so early it's graded as a reach, thats just how it happens, so absolutely many turn out to be wrong, a lot of variables are involved that determine success, plus we took a qb that in all likelyhood will hold a clip board till ???? that's rarely gonna get a plus.

I still think Ron Wolf was spot on, even more so now with UFA, if you can produce 2 starter talent players from every draft class, then it was a successful draft, right now I think we did that with the 2nd and 3rd rounders, but thats best guess, and from a biased Packer fan, I wouldn't expect a lot of agreement bout that from anyone though, specially some neutral party rating team drafts, I think my point was lost some where, in there, I'am holding out hope that we get a couple WR's in the supplamental draft, guys with some name recognition that the graders have heard of so they can throw some LOVE our way (no pun intended)

Not sure why you want to court the grades of the NFL draft bloggers. The widespread derision for this draft only makes it sweeter if we win down the road. No one puts a Kiper A grade in their stadium trophy cabinet.

Rather than drafting a WR in the supplemental draft I'm looking forward to ESB, Funchess and Lazard radically improving on what we had last year and everyone realising maybe they should have stepped away from the ledge.

I don't really blame the media folks tbh. They have airtime and column inches to fill and the angrier the hot take the more attention and clicks they get. That's why I don't watch any of it. I reckon we honestly get better analysis on here and a few selected youtube film breakdowns. Give me that over Michael Irvin's top-of-head thoughts in NFL Network.

[lupedafiasco]

[Pckfn23]

Rodgers has TDs to the following players:
Jordy Nelson - 65 - Pick 36
Greg Jennings - 38 - Pick 52
Randall Cobb - 39 - Pick 64
Davante Adams - 39 - Pick 53
Eddie Lacy - 6 - Pick 61

So that is 187 TDs to 2nd round picks.

[YoHoChecko]

I legit can't wait for him to throw one to Jordan Love and make it 2.

[YoHoChecko]

Rodgers has TDs to the following players:
Jordy Nelson - 65 - Pick 36
Greg Jennings - 38 - Pick 52
Randall Cobb - 39 - Pick 64
Davante Adams - 39 - Pick 53
Eddie Lacy - 6 - Pick 61

So that is 187 TDs to 2nd round picks.

Thrown more TDs to 2nd round picks than all but one player has thrown to 1st round picks!

[Pckfn23]

Favre to 1st and 2nd Rounds:
Greg Jennings - 16
Javon Walker - 19
Sterling Sharpe - 46
Bubba Franks - 32
Robert Ferguson - 15
Keith Jackson - 13
Derrick Mayes - 5
Terry Glenn - 2
Wesley Walls - 1
Darrell Thompson - 1
Andre Rison - 3

So Favre had 153 to Both 2nd and 1st round picks INCLUDING Playoffs.

Give or take a few TD passes.