Packers @ Buccaneers GDT: Sunday, Sept. 25th, 3:25 PM CST

[Acrobat]

We have to be happy that we won this game with defense and STs. We all knew the offense would be a work in progress and to win this game not playing great is huge for the team's confidence. Going to be tough going against the Pats D next week as well but I like that we're playing against some good defenses early.

I just wish that one time when the offense is in a funk MLF would call something outside our game plan. Seems to me he put Dillon in motion out of the 2 back set more than he did Jones. It was obvious that was his game plan and he never wavered from it. I would have liked to get Jones the ball more in the passing game in the second half. I think he only threw one pass to Jones in the 2nd half and that was on a 3rd down checkdown for no yards.

Rodgers must have thrown a doz passes that required yac to gain a stinking yard, and another doz that required yac to get a first down, who the heck designs plays like that? everything we saw in the first half that produced points was non existent the rest of the game.

Defenses also adjust midgame. It's quite possible that what worked no longer worked because they have a really good defensive coach on the other side of the ball.

[Drj820]

We have to be happy that we won this game with defense and STs. We all knew the offense would be a work in progress and to win this game not playing great is huge for the team's confidence. Going to be tough going against the Pats D next week as well but I like that we're playing against some good defenses early.

I just wish that one time when the offense is in a funk MLF would call something outside our game plan. Seems to me he put Dillon in motion out of the 2 back set more than he did Jones. It was obvious that was his game plan and he never wavered from it. I would have liked to get Jones the ball more in the passing game in the second half. I think he only threw one pass to Jones in the 2nd half and that was on a 3rd down checkdown for no yards.

Rodgers must have thrown a doz passes that required yac to gain a stinking yard, and another doz that required yac to get a first down, who the heck designs plays like that? everything we saw in the first half that produced points was non existent the rest of the game.

Defenses also adjust midgame. It's quite possible that what worked no longer worked because they have a really good defensive coach on the other side of the ball.

Defenses do adjust, and our offense has to learn how to make adjustments once the original plan is figured out by a defense

[go pak go]

Yeah the defense went into more man and press coverage the 2nd half.

What really killed us the 2nd half on offense from my perspective was the following:

1. Absolutely zero production on the ground
2. Every time we had a good play on first down (AJ Dillon run and Doubs WR screen) the refs called a penalty on Lazard that didn't really impact the actual play
3. Missed plays on execution that were potential big plays
a. Rodgers misses Jones on a crosser on 3rd down that was a 20+ yard play
b. Rodgers is forced off his spot and can't get the ball to Cobb which would have been a score
c. Rodgers for whatever reason doesn't hit Doubs on the slant on the final 3rd down that at minimum gives Crosby a shot and likely nets us a first down.
d. Winfree and Doubs run into each other on our one shot play attempt.

Honestly there was stuff there. It just ended up being a perfect storm of red calls and poor execution when opportunity arrived to not score beyond 14 points.

Honestly everyone is to blame on that.

[Yoop]

Yeah the defense went into more man and press coverage the 2nd half.

What really killed us the 2nd half on offense from my perspective was the following:

1. Absolutely zero production on the ground
2. Every time we had a good play on first down (AJ Dillon run and Doubs WR screen) the refs called a penalty on Lazard that didn't really impact the actual play
3. Missed plays on execution that were potential big plays
a. Rodgers misses Jones on a crosser on 3rd down that was a 20+ yard play
b. Rodgers is forced off his spot and can't get the ball to Cobb which would have been a score
c. Rodgers for whatever reason doesn't hit Doubs on the slant on the final 3rd down that at minimum gives Crosby a shot and likely nets us a first down.
d. Winfree and Doubs run into each other on our one shot play attempt.

Honestly there was stuff there. It just ended up being a perfect storm of red calls and poor execution when opportunity arrived to not score beyond 14 points.

Honestly everyone is to blame on that.

this is the second time you've defended Rodgers for not pulling the trigger to Cobb, he had time and Cobb was wide open for a 10 yrd gain before Rodgers was pressured, Rodgers wasn't forced to bounce out, he chose to extend the play because he wanted a bigger gain, result was a free play and that is a rodgers response to free plays.

yes Tampa went man and press more in the 2nd half, but that doesn't mean you need to revert to stupid &%$@ we saw in the 2nd half, the behind the los sideline throws that everyone in the NFL is aware of and has designed to defend, the almost non existent backfield pre snap motion that was the catalyst for our first half production, Rodgers spread the ball to 8 different receivers in the first half, are we to believe non of those guys got open in the 2nd half?

[go pak go]

Yeah the defense went into more man and press coverage the 2nd half.

What really killed us the 2nd half on offense from my perspective was the following:

1. Absolutely zero production on the ground
2. Every time we had a good play on first down (AJ Dillon run and Doubs WR screen) the refs called a penalty on Lazard that didn't really impact the actual play
3. Missed plays on execution that were potential big plays
a. Rodgers misses Jones on a crosser on 3rd down that was a 20+ yard play
b. Rodgers is forced off his spot and can't get the ball to Cobb which would have been a score
c. Rodgers for whatever reason doesn't hit Doubs on the slant on the final 3rd down that at minimum gives Crosby a shot and likely nets us a first down.
d. Winfree and Doubs run into each other on our one shot play attempt.

Honestly there was stuff there. It just ended up being a perfect storm of red calls and poor execution when opportunity arrived to not score beyond 14 points.

Honestly everyone is to blame on that.

this is the second time you've defended Rodgers for not pulling the trigger to Cobb, he had time and Cobb was wide open for a 10 yrd gain before Rodgers was pressured, Rodgers wasn't forced to bounce out, he chose to extend the play because he wanted a bigger gain, result was a free play and that is a rodgers response to free plays.

I would love to see the play again as I admit I am going off memory. But if the complaint is "Rodgers shoulda got the 10 yard gain" then I absolutely will defend Rodgers on that.

He knew there was 12 men on the field. So Rodgers knew it was a free play. You always go for the shot play on a free play. I do know that Rodgers was forced to step to his right to avoid a rush and then was too late to get the ball to Cobb. The ideal time was throwing a second earlier than he did because he hits Cobb at about the 45 yardline and Cobb is gone. But I thought I remembered Rodgers had pressure and therefore he had to adjust his spot.

[wallyuwl]

He knew there was 12 men on the field. So Rodgers knew it was a free play. You always go for the shot play on a free play. I do know that Rodgers was forced to step to his right to avoid a rush and then was too late to get the ball to Cobb. The ideal time was throwing a second earlier than he did because he hits Cobb at about the 45 yardline and Cobb is gone. But I thought I remembered Rodgers had pressure and therefore he had to adjust his spot.

Yeah, AR had pressure and wasn't able to throw it early enough. And when he did throw it he was on the move and not able to set his feet.

[NCF]

[Labrev]

I tend to be in the more optimistic camp, but I am on the negative side of this win. We are a contender, or we tell ourselves that, so we need to be able to beat teams like this in the playoffs. It does not bode well that we only barely beat them with numerous key players out.

Yeah, we lost Jaire, but they lost several more players, and the replacement (Nixon) was more than adequate so let's not overstate the setback. If they are more healthy next time, we will need to do a lot better than that to win.

There's lots of season to go so I am not going to go full Doomer on this one, but I expected better.

On a side note, their resilience stinks. Jones fumbles the ball early in the game and the O loses momentum for the rest of the game. It was like the Lewis fumble last year. Yeah, it sucked, but get over it. It's like this team has internalized Rodgers's perfectionism, letting perfect be the enemy of good. "oops, INT, now my QBR won't be 100+. Welp, I'm just gonna check outta this game, better luck next week!"

[go pak go]

I tend to be in the more optimistic camp, but I am on the negative side of this win. We are a contender, or we tell ourselves that, so we need to be able to beat teams like this in the playoffs. It does not bode well that we only barely beat them with numerous key players out.

Yeah, we lost Jaire, but they lost several more players, and the replacement (Nixon) was more than adequate so let's not overstate the setback. If they are more healthy next time, we will need to do a lot better than that to win.

There's lots of season to go so I am not going to go full Doomer on this one, but I expected better.

On a side note, their resilience stinks. Jones fumbles the ball early in the game and the O loses momentum for the rest of the game. It was like the Lewis fumble last year. Yeah, it sucked, but get over it. It's like this team has internalized Rodgers's perfectionism, letting perfect be the enemy of good. "oops, INT, now my QBR won't be 100+. Welp, I'm just gonna check outta this game, better luck next week!"

I haven't wanted to say anything because of history on this forum any time it is brought up, but I think the largest reason we didn't win by more scores beyond the obvious Jones fumble and poor ref flag on the punt is that Rodgers simply did not have a good game yesterday.

I thought it was one of his worst games in a long while. At the level of 2019 LAC/SF, 2020 MN/JAX/TB, 2021 NO/DET/SF. He for whatever reason stinks against these types of defenses and yesterday the excuses started to run out for him. The Oline actually held up decent. Not great, but decent. And he had multiple plays available that he just didn't make.

It was disappointing because against great defenses, you have to take the plays when they are available and he just didn't. The biggest differentiator in the 2nd half is our run game became absolutely worthless and once that happened...Rodgers had no response. At some point your MVP needs to elevate the team. I thought by and large Rodgers let the team down the 2nd half rather than the other way around of players letting him down outside of the Doubs/Winfree route mixup play. Especially because plays were there to add anywhere from likely 3 to 14 additional points in the 2nd half.

[Acrobat]

Jones fumble and ridiculous penalty, and we score 20 points against a really good defense, and possibly run out the clock even more because that last first down wouldn't have seemed as urgent and we end up winning 20-6. We really did take it to a really good team in their house. Yeah there's stuff to work on. Of course there is. It's Week 3. You don't want to be peaking now.

[YoHoChecko]

We had a great first half on offense and defense (aside from the opening drive). Brady was on the whole game, but it didn't matter because we tackled the guys. He was something insane like 13/15 at halftime, with 3 points to show for it.

The running game and Rodgers both stunk in the second half, but I don't think I'd say anything about Rodgers not playing well for this game--definitely for the half. But it's also true that our running game was effective in the first half and then stymied.

Rodgers is an MVP-level player, obviously, and needs to be able to elevate the team, certainly, but I think until he gets into a better rhythm with a more consistent cast of offensive characters, we need the other aspects of the team to elevate the passing game, and the team is built to do just that. So I, in this game, am not at all on the side of "Rodgers needs to do more." I know there are 3-4 plays where I think his read or execution would have made a big difference, but 3-4 plays per game to is a fairly regular occurrence even for great QBs.

[Yoop]

I haven't wanted to say anything because of history on this forum any time it is brought up, but I think the largest reason we didn't win by more scores beyond the obvious Jones fumble and poor ref flag on the punt is that Rodgers simply did not have a good game yesterday.

Amen to that, thank you.

it's not so much that the team goes into funk after a turnover, Labrev nailed it, Rodgers is the guy that goes into protective mode, and conservative extremes.

in the first 3 drives our PA had Tampa reeling, after Jones fumble our PA consisted of fake runs and side line tosses that depended totally on yac to gain any yardage at all, which it obviously didn't, multiple 3 and outs

in the first half we see whats obviously Lafluer scripted plays, in the 2nd we see Rodgers improvisation, obviously not every play, but it's obvious that the onus goes from offensive attack mode to prevent another mistake at all cost ( the little brother of prevent defense) and the whole complexion of the offense changes, the run game goes to &%$@ because the blocking down right sucks ( Jenkins is a rust bucket, he's sucked at both pass pro and run blocking), and if your running against the likes of White and the other ILB the stretch zoners are a tough chore, we should have ran inside zone, that stuff is probably on Lafluer, under Rodgers control we see very little urgency to the offense, it's as though a switch was flipped, and my impression is that Rodgers is the biggest reason for it

[Scott4Pack]

I see no reason to pick on anyone from the Defense. Especially with Jaire ruled out early. Only person I want to answer a question from the defense is Barry. Would like to ask him why he went prevent style soft zone on last drive. Would make sure he knows he got bailed out by Bucs delay of game.

Nine out of ten coaches will always play that last drive to NOT LOSE instead of playing to WIN, like they had all the previous parts of the game. That’s why they call the “prevent” defense. And we all know that a prevent defense almost always results in an offense having a legit chance at scoring. It’s like the defense yields everything, a little at a time hopefully, until the offense gets to the Red Zone. Then, with the condensed field and less time, the D hopes to play that to their advantage.

I have never been a fan of this. Gregg Easterbrooke used to harp on that in his MMQB articles. He cited numerous examples of how the “prevent” defense rarely prevented much of anything.

Even so, our Packer D has more talent than most and has a legit chance to make plays, like 59 did yesterday. We cant take that away.

[Scott4Pack]

Not a win to be excited about. If we play them again they get back Evans, Godwin, Julio, Donovan Smith, probably Hicks on defense. Very concerning to have this game be this close. Sure we were down bad in receivers too but theirs are proven pro bowl level commodities.

I hear what you are saying. But I gotta suggest otherwise. Winning in the NFL is hard. Every win is worth being excited about. And if you dont think so, just consider how you’ll feel if we had lost. I could suggest that if the win isnt worth getting excited about, then a loss would also not be worth lamenting about. Right?

:-)

[go pak go]

We had a great first half on offense and defense (aside from the opening drive). Brady was on the whole game, but it didn't matter because we tackled the guys. He was something insane like 13/15 at halftime, with 3 points to show for it.

The running game and Rodgers both stunk in the second half, but I don't think I'd say anything about Rodgers not playing well for this game--definitely for the half. But it's also true that our running game was effective in the first half and then stymied.

Rodgers is an MVP-level player, obviously, and needs to be able to elevate the team, certainly, but I think until he gets into a better rhythm with a more consistent cast of offensive characters, we need the other aspects of the team to elevate the passing game, and the team is built to do just that. So I, in this game, am not at all on the side of "Rodgers needs to do more." I know there are 3-4 plays where I think his read or execution would have made a big difference, but 3-4 plays per game to is a fairly regular occurrence even for great QBs.

I agree on the half vs game thing. Rodgers was very good the first half.

What concerns me, and we saw this vs SF last year too, is the complete shutdown this offense goes through against good defenses. We scored nothing last January in the playoff loss. We converted zero first downs when we needed to bleed clock.

The same thing happened yesterday. Even just getting a first down on a series reduces the possessions for the count.

But instead, our complete lack of production beyond the Lazard play really put pressure on our defense.

Overall, I am far more elated than anything from yesterday. We played a "punch in the mouth" game and we won. Usually we are on the opposite side of these things. So I can't complain much. But for those saying we can't beat TB with their WRs actually playing...I disagree as long as our offense turns out a bit more.

And that is our final key.

[Scott4Pack]

I tend to be in the more optimistic camp, but I am on the negative side of this win. We are a contender, or we tell ourselves that, so we need to be able to beat teams like this in the playoffs. It does not bode well that we only barely beat them with numerous key players out.

Yeah, we lost Jaire, but they lost several more players, and the replacement (Nixon) was more than adequate so let's not overstate the setback. If they are more healthy next time, we will need to do a lot better than that to win.

There's lots of season to go so I am not going to go full Doomer on this one, but I expected better.

On a side note, their resilience stinks. Jones fumbles the ball early in the game and the O loses momentum for the rest of the game. It was like the Lewis fumble last year. Yeah, it sucked, but get over it. It's like this team has internalized Rodgers's perfectionism, letting perfect be the enemy of good. "oops, INT, now my QBR won't be 100+. Welp, I'm just gonna check outta this game, better luck next week!"

I haven't wanted to say anything because of history on this forum any time it is brought up, but I think the largest reason we didn't win by more scores beyond the obvious Jones fumble and poor ref flag on the punt is that Rodgers simply did not have a good game yesterday.

I thought it was one of his worst games in a long while. At the level of 2019 LAC/SF, 2020 MN/JAX/TB, 2021 NO/DET/SF. He for whatever reason stinks against these types of defenses and yesterday the excuses started to run out for him. The Oline actually held up decent. Not great, but decent. And he had multiple plays available that he just didn't make.

It was disappointing because against great defenses, you have to take the plays when they are available and he just didn't. The biggest differentiator in the 2nd half is our run game became absolutely worthless and once that happened...Rodgers had no response. At some point your MVP needs to elevate the team. I thought by and large Rodgers let the team down the 2nd half rather than the other way around of players letting him down outside of the Doubs/Winfree route mixup play. Especially because plays were there to add anywhere from likely 3 to 14 additional points in the 2nd half.

This!

Rodgers is a night and day different guy than Brady. Yet, it seemed that he took the plays that were in front of him in the first half. In second half, he and/or the play calling was ultra conservative.

We are seeing a trend on the play calling too. For three+ seasons, MLF shows that he has a diverse playbook. (That’s what we say about the McVay playbook, right?) Yet we get times like yesterday when the idea of throwing more than five yards downfield is thrown (no pun intended) our the window.

[Scott4Pack]

I would like to see why MLF didn’t throw his red hanky on that running into the punter call. Is that not challengable? Our guy was clearly pulled into the kicker. It clearly should not have been a penalty. And look at the impact of them being able to kick again. Could have been game-changing.

I’m thinking that MLF held his hanky because he didn’t want to risk the timeout if he loses. Would’ve needed that at the close of the game if we somehow fell behind.

[go pak go]

I would like to see why MLF didn’t throw his red hanky on that running into the punter call. Is that not challengable? Our guy was clearly pulled into the kicker. It clearly should not have been a penalty. And look at the impact of them being able to kick again. Could have been game-changing.

I’m thinking that MLF held his hanky because he didn’t want to risk the timeout if he loses. Would’ve needed that at the close of the game if we somehow fell behind.

I do not believe those are challengeable since it is a penalty.

Really sucks. Like I get it from the ref's standpoint. I get why they called it. But it was a bad call that cost us dearly.

[Acrobat]

I would like to see why MLF didn’t throw his red hanky on that running into the punter call. Is that not challengable? Our guy was clearly pulled into the kicker. It clearly should not have been a penalty. And look at the impact of them being able to kick again. Could have been game-changing.

I’m thinking that MLF held his hanky because he didn’t want to risk the timeout if he loses. Would’ve needed that at the close of the game if we somehow fell behind.

I do not believe those are challengeable since it is a penalty.

Really sucks. Like I get it from the ref's standpoint. I get why they called it. But it was a bad call that cost us dearly.

I was saying that to a friend yesterday. That seems like a call that should be challengeable based on the fact that the result of those penalties are almost the equivalent of a turnover sometimes.

[texas]

Honestly those refs were trying to screw us. Nothing too blatant but every little thing went against us after we got out to that quick 11 point lead. Admittedly we are usually the beneficiary of controversial officiating decisions, but yesterday I guess Brady's seniority won out.