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Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 09:06
by NCF
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:04
Honestly, I do not think Love's readiness has much to do with the decision. We suck in 2022, so be it, we draft a replacement in 2023.
Yep. This goes back to fear. As if the world ends if we have one year of below par QB play.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 09:12
by Pugger
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:04
Pugger wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 08:58
Scott4Pack wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 08:51
It does have to do with fortitude. The GM/HC can say all day that they are looking to the future. But if they aren't willing to risk letting go of a legacy QB and a possible WC or better 2022, for the sake of loading up some prime draft picks and building... It takes courage to make that call.
Maybe you call that something else; faith, conviction, etc. I'm calling that fortitude because the GM/HC need to stand behind whatever they say and whatever they choose to do. That can be easier said than done.
Before they ship AR off to another team they had better be darn sure Love is ready. If not
their jobs are on the line too if Love falls on his face and the team struggles to win. Back in 2008 MM and TT could see what they had in AR so it wasn't as big of a gamble to move on from Favre even if those of us on the outside weren't so sure.
Honestly, I do not think Love's readiness has much to do with the decision. We suck in 2022, so be it, we draft a replacement in 2023.
If Love doesn't work out it isn't a good look seeing Gute moved up to take him.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 09:14
by Pckfn23
Pugger wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:12
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:04
Pugger wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 08:58
Before they ship AR off to another team they had better be darn sure Love is ready. If not
their jobs are on the line too if Love falls on his face and the team struggles to win. Back in 2008 MM and TT could see what they had in AR so it wasn't as big of a gamble to move on from Favre even if those of us on the outside weren't so sure.
Honestly, I do not think Love's readiness has much to do with the decision. We suck in 2022, so be it, we draft a replacement in 2023.
If Love doesn't work out it isn't a good look seeing Gute moved up to take him.
It's the draft. No GM hits even close to every pick. It doesn't really matter if it looks good or not. It matter if they can fix it.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 09:15
by paco
Pugger wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:12
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:04
Pugger wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 08:58
Before they ship AR off to another team they had better be darn sure Love is ready. If not
their jobs are on the line too if Love falls on his face and the team struggles to win. Back in 2008 MM and TT could see what they had in AR so it wasn't as big of a gamble to move on from Favre even if those of us on the outside weren't so sure.
Honestly, I do not think Love's readiness has much to do with the decision. We suck in 2022, so be it, we draft a replacement in 2023.
If Love doesn't work out it isn't a good look seeing Gute moved up to take him.
Bad decisions are made by GMs every day and in every draft. The key is overcoming them. Once a GM starts stacking back decisions, then you start to worry. Trading up in the 1st for a QB is more high profile yes. But not a deal breaker if he doesn't have a history of those types of bad calls.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 09:21
by NCF
Pugger wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:12
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:04
Pugger wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 08:58
Before they ship AR off to another team they had better be darn sure Love is ready. If not
their jobs are on the line too if Love falls on his face and the team struggles to win. Back in 2008 MM and TT could see what they had in AR so it wasn't as big of a gamble to move on from Favre even if those of us on the outside weren't so sure.
Honestly, I do not think Love's readiness has much to do with the decision. We suck in 2022, so be it, we draft a replacement in 2023.
If Love doesn't work out it isn't a good look seeing Gute moved up to take him.
How does it look if we keep Rodgers until he is done and don't even have a viable next option to try after him?
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 09:29
by Yoop
NCF wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:21
Pugger wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:12
Pckfn23 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:04
Honestly, I do not think Love's readiness has much to do with the decision. We suck in 2022, so be it, we draft a replacement in 2023.
If Love doesn't work out it isn't a good look seeing Gute moved up to take him.
How does it look if we keep Rodgers until he is done and don't even have a viable next option to try after him?
well if we keep Rodgers for 3 more years the staff should know if Love is a viable replacement, if not, draft or buy one that is.
easy to see why MLF and Guty want Rodgers back, it gives them some breathing room and time to asses Love more.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 09:31
by salmar80
NCF wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 08:41
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 08:38
I think hope and an inaccurate viewpoint is why so many think he's coming back.
I think it's fear. Fear of the unknown and fear of what life will be like without him.
Ain't fear for me. Just the chance that AR sees there's a good thing going with Gutey and LaFleur and the core of the team. He may just wanna stick around for a while.
Other teams will have more FA money and draft capital in 2022. But Gutey has made some bloody awesome value moves in his short time. With AR at the helm, we could be back at the pinnacle in 2023, could even sneak in as division champions in 2022.
Yeah, the Love pick is a bummer. But if we trade him or plant his ass publicly on the bench for a another year, threat is gone.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 09:40
by paco
Yoop wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:29
NCF wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:21
Pugger wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:12
If Love doesn't work out it isn't a good look seeing Gute moved up to take him.
How does it look if we keep Rodgers until he is done and don't even have a viable next option to try after him?
well if we keep Rodgers for 3 more years the staff should know if Love is a viable replacement, if not, draft or buy one that is.
easy to see why MLF and Guty want Rodgers back, it gives them some breathing room and time to asses Love more.
MLF and Gutey may know that, but we don't. No reason to think that Love won't ask for a trade if Rodgers is brought back.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 09:51
by Drj820
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:40
Yoop wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:29
NCF wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:21
How does it look if we keep Rodgers until he is done and don't even have a viable next option to try after him?
well if we keep Rodgers for 3 more years the staff should know if Love is a viable replacement, if not, draft or buy one that is.
easy to see why MLF and Guty want Rodgers back, it gives them some breathing room and time to asses Love more.
MLF and Gutey may know that, but we don't. No reason to think that Love won't ask for a trade if Rodgers is brought back.
If rodgers is back the league knows its because Love cant play. Where could Love go and start next year after asking for a trade? I doubt anywhere.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 09:54
by paco
Drj820 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:51
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:40
Yoop wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:29
well if we keep Rodgers for 3 more years the staff should know if Love is a viable replacement, if not, draft or buy one that is.
easy to see why MLF and Guty want Rodgers back, it gives them some breathing room and time to asses Love more.
MLF and Gutey may know that, but we don't. No reason to think that Love won't ask for a trade if Rodgers is brought back.
If rodgers is back the league knows its because Love cant play. Where could Love go and start next year after asking for a trade? I doubt anywhere.
Doesn't mean he's going to start. But I don't believe Rodgers is or would come back for 1 year. Love can go elsewhere and get a fresh start. Have a chance to start right away or in 1 more year.
How long would you sit on a bench for a team that doesn't seem to want you anymore?
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 10:09
by Pckfn23
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:54
Drj820 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:51
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:40
MLF and Gutey may know that, but we don't. No reason to think that Love won't ask for a trade if Rodgers is brought back.
If rodgers is back the league knows its because Love cant play. Where could Love go and start next year after asking for a trade? I doubt anywhere.
Doesn't mean he's going to start. But I don't believe Rodgers is or would come back for 1 year. Love can go elsewhere and get a fresh start. Have a chance to start right away or in 1 more year.
How long would you sit on a bench for a team that doesn't seem to want you anymore?
It also doesn't mean Love can't play or can never play. I could mean they believe Rodgers can play better for a good price for the next 3 years, which is a LONG time in the NFL. It would definitely mean they still have questions about Love, but nothing definitive.
I don't see Rodgers back without a new contract, so if that extension happens, then I fully expect Love to want to be traded. We don't need to trade him and might not this offseason.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 10:24
by Yoop
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:40
Yoop wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:29
NCF wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:21
How does it look if we keep Rodgers until he is done and don't even have a viable next option to try after him?
well if we keep Rodgers for 3 more years the staff should know if Love is a viable replacement, if not, draft or buy one that is.
easy to see why MLF and Guty want Rodgers back, it gives them some breathing room and time to asses Love more.
MLF and Gutey may know that, but we don't. No reason to think that Love won't ask for a trade if Rodgers is brought back.
Love can ask for whatever he wants, doesn't mean we have to cave to him, and Paco, who is going to spend equal compensation that we paid? Love has no bargaining power this off season, in fact imo Love would be smart to sit another season, play in more PS and possibly regular season games, if he does well, it will raise his value, impossible to even guess what Rodgers and the FO will do at this point for me.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 10:26
by Drj820
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:54
Drj820 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:51
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:40
MLF and Gutey may know that, but we don't. No reason to think that Love won't ask for a trade if Rodgers is brought back.
If rodgers is back the league knows its because Love cant play. Where could Love go and start next year after asking for a trade? I doubt anywhere.
Doesn't mean he's going to start. But I don't believe Rodgers is or would come back for 1 year. Love can go elsewhere and get a fresh start. Have a chance to start right away or in 1 more year.
How long would you sit on a bench for a team that doesn't seem to want you anymore?
ancient proverb: better to stay quiet and people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Same principle applies for Love here.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 10:33
by salmar80
Drj820 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:51
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:40
Yoop wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:29
well if we keep Rodgers for 3 more years the staff should know if Love is a viable replacement, if not, draft or buy one that is.
easy to see why MLF and Guty want Rodgers back, it gives them some breathing room and time to asses Love more.
MLF and Gutey may know that, but we don't. No reason to think that Love won't ask for a trade if Rodgers is brought back.
If rodgers is back the league knows its because Love cant play. Where could Love go and start next year after asking for a trade? I doubt anywhere.
If we had someone else than the MVP at QB, and Love couldn't beat him, that would dampen trade prospects. But if Love were better than the MVP, we wouldn't even discuss this, right?
GB has essentially given Love a free major's degree at quarterbacking. No wear and tear. Also no certainty whether the student is now ready to handle a big job. Some team might be interested in seeing whether Love's doctorate would be good...
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 10:34
by paco
Yoop wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 10:24
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:40
Yoop wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:29
well if we keep Rodgers for 3 more years the staff should know if Love is a viable replacement, if not, draft or buy one that is.
easy to see why MLF and Guty want Rodgers back, it gives them some breathing room and time to asses Love more.
MLF and Gutey may know that, but we don't. No reason to think that Love won't ask for a trade if Rodgers is brought back.
Love can ask for whatever he wants, doesn't mean we have to cave to him, and Paco, who is going to spend equal compensation that we paid? Love has no bargaining power this off season, in fact imo Love would be smart to sit another season, play in more PS and possibly regular season games, if he does well, it will raise his value, impossible to even guess what Rodgers and the FO will do at this point for me.
Who says it will require equal value? Whose to say what's smart? We don't know how Love feels. We didn't know how Aaron felt either at that point.
Just saying, all options are on the table. But don't be surprised if he does ask for a trade and Packers oblige, IF the plan is to bring Rodgers back for an extended period of time.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 12:59
by TheSkeptic
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 10:34
Yoop wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 10:24
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 09:40
MLF and Gutey may know that, but we don't. No reason to think that Love won't ask for a trade if Rodgers is brought back.
Love can ask for whatever he wants, doesn't mean we have to cave to him, and Paco, who is going to spend equal compensation that we paid? Love has no bargaining power this off season, in fact imo Love would be smart to sit another season, play in more PS and possibly regular season games, if he does well, it will raise his value, impossible to even guess what Rodgers and the FO will do at this point for me.
Who says it will require equal value? Whose to say what's smart? We don't know how Love feels. We didn't know how Aaron felt either at that point.
Just saying, all options are on the table. But don't be surprised if he does ask for a trade and Packers oblige, IF the plan is to bring Rodgers back for an extended period of time.
The Packers cannot bring Rodgers back for 1 year or even 2. Why would Love want to wait 3 more seasons and then take over a team that owes Rodgers and others a boat load of dead cap money? Why would Love want to wait 3 years to take over a 2-15 team in salary cap hell?
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 13:26
by paco
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 12:59
paco wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 10:34
Yoop wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 10:24
Love can ask for whatever he wants, doesn't mean we have to cave to him, and Paco, who is going to spend equal compensation that we paid? Love has no bargaining power this off season, in fact imo Love would be smart to sit another season, play in more PS and possibly regular season games, if he does well, it will raise his value, impossible to even guess what Rodgers and the FO will do at this point for me.
Who says it will require equal value? Whose to say what's smart? We don't know how Love feels. We didn't know how Aaron felt either at that point.
Just saying, all options are on the table. But don't be surprised if he does ask for a trade and Packers oblige, IF the plan is to bring Rodgers back for an extended period of time.
The Packers cannot bring Rodgers back for 1 year or even 2. Why would Love want to wait 3 more seasons and then take over a team that owes Rodgers and others a boat load of dead cap money? Why would Love want to wait 3 years to take over a 2-15 team in salary cap hell?
Well, they can. If both they and Rodgers agree to it.
But I agree on Love. I don't think he wants to sit there a whole lot longer to have an opportunity to start. No one wants to sit on the bench for 3-6 years.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 13:57
by BF004
I kind of hope we at least ask around. Gutenkunst says he wants to be in every conversation.
So ask around on trading both Aaron and Love.
If someone might be willing to drop a 1 on Love, that means something, if it's just a 4 or a 5, something else.
Same on Aaron, if we are literally pushing something dumb like 3 firsts, that's just almost irresponsible to pass that up right now. If its just like a late 1 and another pick, then something else.
Just think the decision to keep Aaron and/or Jordan for years to come shouldn't exist in a vacuum, in my opinion.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 14:14
by paco
BF004 wrote: ↑02 Feb 2022 13:57
I kind of hope we at least ask around. Gutenkunst says he wants to be in every conversation.
So ask around on trading both Aaron and Love.
If someone might be willing to drop a 1 on Love, that means something, if it's just a 4 or a 5, something else.
Same on Aaron, if we are literally pushing something dumb like 3 firsts, that's just almost irresponsible to pass that up right now. If its just like a late 1 and another pick, then something else.
Just think the decision to keep Aaron and/or Jordan for years to come shouldn't exist in a vacuum, in my opinion.
Totally agree with all of this. I would find it strange if Gutey isn't doing all of this and probably was all year and last offseason.
Re: Rodgers wants out
Posted: 02 Feb 2022 14:41
by paco