2025 Jordan Love

[Yoop]

I’m not sure how anyone can say Love is a bust at this point. He was taking late in the first round and is a starting caliber QB that has led his team to the playoffs twice. That counts for something all while suffering from the same fate as late Aaron Rodgers where he is playing some some of the most mediocre WR talent in the league.

Now if you want to say he’s a mid tier starting QB that is fair to say. He’s not in the elite tier but it is fair to criticize when he’s being paid in that tier.

Love can't do things his predecessor thrived at, the dancing and never actually planting, never really amounted to the inaccuracy issues for Rodgers it does for Love, Rodgers style of play would be bad for almost any young QB to tutor under because that style defies the ability to coach proper technique, heck how many times have we heard that mentioned over the years, my point is, to watch Rodgers bouncing on his toes, and then abruptly tossing a dime 40 yards with both feet off the ground becomes ingrained in the physic of everyone witnessing it, specially when ya watch that stuff over and over for 3 years, so when things go bad (and they did for Love to start last season) then old habits, which includes emulating his predecessor rears it's ugly head.

we saw Loves full tool box opened late 2023, so we know he has the gifts, just needs to get back on the right track.

[go pak go]

As to say that’s his only flaw I think he makes some really poor choices in giving players contracts outside of 2nd contracts. Jimmy Graham, Preston Smith, Kenny Clark, Devondre Campbell, Aaron Rodgers, then not paying Adams… the only one actually deserving. He’s gotta clean that up and make better decisions. It’s why we have been in the bottom 3rd of the league in dead money 3 straight seasons.

I'm sorry but if this is the next "worst thing" you can find then that just shows how good BG has done.

Smith was great in 2023 and his contracts kept getting pay cuts to stay with the team - he was well worth it. Clark was mid in 2024. Not stellar but certainly not a bust. Campbell fell flat in a 2nd contract period (not 3rd contract age) after 1 year being All Pro - never really had that true "2nd contract" until GB. Definitely wrong looking back but hard to indict Brian as he was in SB window going into 2021.

So honestly the two indictments of Jimmy Graham over Jordy Nelson and trading Aaron Rodgers one year too late. Those are valid criticisms where he got it wrong. But in the grand scheme of things he's doing better than many, many other GMs and it shows.

5 playoff appearances in 7 years. 2 NFC Title appearances and a transition at quarterback and really 2 complete roster turnovers in that span. He's upper tier but not at that elite tier yet and to get there....I believe he needs to do better with this first round draft capital.

As for dead cap criticism, you are going to have a field day with your boy Howie Roseman in a couple years. Dude is the king of can kicking contracts. We just haven't seen the consequences yet.

[Pckfn23]

As for dead cap criticism, you are going to have a field day with your boy Howie Roseman in a couple years. Dude is the king of can kicking contracts. We just haven't seen the consequences yet.

By far the most void year money currently under contract.

[texas]

The point is, I am somewhat close to joining @lupedafiasco in calling him Gutenbumst. I'm not there yet because we have seemingly a really bright future, but I look at our roster and I just get the feeling that Gutekunst is an underwhelming drafter. He knocked it out of the park with Jaire. Love is really good. But the bulk of his work is underwhelming so car. Zero blue chip guys, our best players most years during his tenure have been MM/TT guys or FAs. How much of our success is talent versus coaching? I think the offensive success is almost entirely MLF. We could be a lot worse. I would rather stick with BG, but I think he should be on notice, or just trade away our 1st rd picks, because we haven't been drafting well enough imo.

Let's not just blanket statement that BG is not a good drafter. He is a fantastic drafter....on Friday and Saturday.

Yes he does get too cute on Thursday. That's his only real knock on his resume up to this point.

I sort of agree, and I thought I mentioned that in my post but turns out I didn't. But yes, my main gripe is that he does not pick blue chip guys. On draft days 2 and 3, that's acceptable (although we'd of course like a blue chip or even red chip guy every now and then from the later rounds). But in round 1 it is a big failure. And overall it is a big failure if he's not drafting any. Jaire is his only drafted blue chip, imo.

^That is what I had typed out until I went to go look at his actual draft results since being named GM. It's worse than we are remembering imo. Part of that depends on how the 6 WRs progress (they notably regressed in 2024, so what looked like a stroke of brilliance from BG now looks like more of the same underwhelming). And of course BG has a thumbs up at by far the most important selection, Jordan Love, although Love is definitely not yet blue chip and is only borderline red chip.

We had all of 3 BG players get Pro Bowl selections according to wikipedia (Jaire, Gary, Jenkins), and frankly Gary is in question of being a one-year wonder at this point (I think he will end up being elite again but he has been invisible a lot recently). No draftees have made the Pro Bowl since the 2019 draft class. Part of that could be because we are a young team with no veterans, but I can remember that nobody has really stepped up for an extended period of time recently among players drafted by BG.

Even in the years that our draft classes don't look totally underwhelming, they're nothing like an average Eagles draft class or some of those draft classes TT put together around the time of our SB run.

Luckily, BG has done a great job of overall roster construction and he hired a tremendous coach. He did well on the most important pick. This does not change my overall optimism regarding the youngest team in the league for 2 years (and the only youngest team in the league to make the playoffs of the last what like 2 decades). But we need to maybe re-asses our opinion of his drafting ability because it is not good.

[go pak go]

Luckily, BG has done a great job of overall roster construction and he hired a tremendous coach. He did well on the most important pick. This does not change my overall optimism regarding the youngest team in the league for 2 years (and the only youngest team in the league to make the playoffs of the last what like 2 decades). But we need to maybe re-asses our opinion of his drafting ability because it is not good.

I would say it's incomplete. The 2023 and 2024 class could definitely change this but like you said it's too early to tell.

If you get Kraft, Reed, Cooper as Pro Bowl guys (which I could buy for any of these players if it clicks) and then Williams, Valentine and Morgan as solid starters you have a completely different conversation or grade process of BG. Then you still have LVN who could make that leap.

But if these don't make that jump...then we are probably starting to ask the question if BG is the man for the job (because if they don't step up we aren't likely a winning team)

[texas]

Luckily, BG has done a great job of overall roster construction and he hired a tremendous coach. He did well on the most important pick. This does not change my overall optimism regarding the youngest team in the league for 2 years (and the only youngest team in the league to make the playoffs of the last what like 2 decades). But we need to maybe re-asses our opinion of his drafting ability because it is not good.

I would say it's incomplete. The 2023 and 2024 class could definitely change this but like you said it's too early to tell.

If you get Kraft, Reed, Cooper as Pro Bowl guys (which I could buy for any of these players if it clicks) and then Williams, Valentine and Morgan as solid starters you have a completely different conversation or grade process of BG. Then you still have LVN who could make that leap.

But if these don't make that jump...then we are probably starting to ask the question if BG is the man for the job (because if they don't step up we aren't likely a winning team)

Yes, this is undoubtedly true. A lot can change from year to year. I also think that Christian Watson could be a blue chip guy if he didn't get injured so much (and we utilized him in our offense more, which would be counterproductive actually). This is another reason why I'm not close to calling for him to be fired or anything like that. But as of right now, for the past 5 years of draft classes, we have 0 stars or even 2nd-tier stars. Rookies and 2nd year guys show enough to make the Pro Bowl all the time. None of ours have.

I am fine with giving him the benefit of the doubt with the current guys, but if we are relying on the "incomplete" argument that maybe the young 1st/2nd year guys will develop into stars, then we have 6 years of track record to show that BG's picks usually don't. Usually when they have talent, it has been obvious right away. In fact, all 3 of his Pro Bowlers immediately flashed, including Gary, who was the subject of a stat floating around in year 2 or whatever that he was actually Aaron Donald-level at pressures. (and even given all that, I would still as of right now consider Gary a slight bust!)

[lupedafiasco]

As to say that’s his only flaw I think he makes some really poor choices in giving players contracts outside of 2nd contracts. Jimmy Graham, Preston Smith, Kenny Clark, Devondre Campbell, Aaron Rodgers, then not paying Adams… the only one actually deserving. He’s gotta clean that up and make better decisions. It’s why we have been in the bottom 3rd of the league in dead money 3 straight seasons.

I'm sorry but if this is the next "worst thing" you can find then that just shows how good BG has done.

Smith was great in 2023 and his contracts kept getting pay cuts to stay with the team - he was well worth it. Clark was mid in 2024. Not stellar but certainly not a bust. Campbell fell flat in a 2nd contract period (not 3rd contract age) after 1 year being All Pro - never really had that true "2nd contract" until GB. Definitely wrong looking back but hard to indict Brian as he was in SB window going into 2021.

So honestly the two indictments of Jimmy Graham over Jordy Nelson and trading Aaron Rodgers one year too late. Those are valid criticisms where he got it wrong. But in the grand scheme of things he's doing better than many, many other GMs and it shows.

5 playoff appearances in 7 years. 2 NFC Title appearances and a transition at quarterback and really 2 complete roster turnovers in that span. He's upper tier but not at that elite tier yet and to get there....I believe he needs to do better with this first round draft capital.

As for dead cap criticism, you are going to have a field day with your boy Howie Roseman in a couple years. Dude is the king of can kicking contracts. We just haven't seen the consequences yet.

Preston Smith was not well worth it. 4 years and 52 million at the age of 31 is quite frankly retarded.

Clark has been trending downward now for a while. Statistically he had his best pass rush season before his extension but his run defense has been borderline average for 4 years. It didn’t make any sense to extend him at age 29.

Campbell was age 29 when we signed him to a long term deal. The same age that Clark was when receiving his 3rd contract. It’s closer to 3rd contract age than it is to 2nd contract age… unless we are talking about doj f something stupid like drafting a 24 year old rookie DT in the first round but why would anyone do something that dumb? Like I said with Nick Perry. You don’t sign one year wonders to long term deals. Should have been an easy franchise tag decision and make him prove it want an outlier.

As for him being better than a lot of other GMs. That really holds no weight to me. The league is literally run by a bunch of morons. That’s why every season we see near a fifth of executives get fired across the league. They’re a bunch of echo chamber buffoons. In my opinion it’s more damning that he can’t get this team over the hump when the paths for this team to win it all is so clear and he does everything he can to steer it somewhere else.

[texas]

As to say that’s his only flaw I think he makes some really poor choices in giving players contracts outside of 2nd contracts. Jimmy Graham, Preston Smith, Kenny Clark, Devondre Campbell, Aaron Rodgers, then not paying Adams… the only one actually deserving. He’s gotta clean that up and make better decisions. It’s why we have been in the bottom 3rd of the league in dead money 3 straight seasons.

I'm sorry but if this is the next "worst thing" you can find then that just shows how good BG has done.

Smith was great in 2023 and his contracts kept getting pay cuts to stay with the team - he was well worth it. Clark was mid in 2024. Not stellar but certainly not a bust. Campbell fell flat in a 2nd contract period (not 3rd contract age) after 1 year being All Pro - never really had that true "2nd contract" until GB. Definitely wrong looking back but hard to indict Brian as he was in SB window going into 2021.

So honestly the two indictments of Jimmy Graham over Jordy Nelson and trading Aaron Rodgers one year too late. Those are valid criticisms where he got it wrong. But in the grand scheme of things he's doing better than many, many other GMs and it shows.

5 playoff appearances in 7 years. 2 NFC Title appearances and a transition at quarterback and really 2 complete roster turnovers in that span. He's upper tier but not at that elite tier yet and to get there....I believe he needs to do better with this first round draft capital.

As for dead cap criticism, you are going to have a field day with your boy Howie Roseman in a couple years. Dude is the king of can kicking contracts. We just haven't seen the consequences yet.

Preston Smith was not well worth it. 4 years and 52 million at the age of 31 is quite frankly retarded.

Clark has been trending downward now for a while. Statistically he had his best pass rush season before his extension but his run defense has been borderline average for 4 years. It didn’t make any sense to extend him at age 29.

Campbell was age 29 when we signed him to a long term deal. The same age that Clark was when receiving his 3rd contract. It’s closer to 3rd contract age than it is to 2nd contract age… unless we are talking about doj f something stupid like drafting a 24 year old rookie DT in the first round but why would anyone do something that dumb? Like I said with Nick Perry. You don’t sign one year wonders to long term deals. Should have been an easy franchise tag decision and make him prove it want an outlier.

As for him being better than a lot of other GMs. That really holds no weight to me. The league is literally run by a bunch of morons. That’s why every season we see near a fifth of executives get fired across the league. They’re a bunch of echo chamber buffoons. In my opinion it’s more damning that he can’t get this team over the hump when the paths for this team to win it all is so clear and he does everything he can to steer it somewhere else.

I don't nitpick BG on contracts as much, I mostly (as of today) think his drafting is poor. I think the strategy of taking the projects which take a while to develop but have top athleticism has been shown to be a bad strategy. Doubly so even, because let's say they finally start flashing year 3 or 4, well guess what, you have to sign them to a big contract at that point. Part of the point of the 1st round deals is so you can get top players for 4-5 good years at a cheap rate, and if we are just getting guys who warm the bench for 2-3 of those years before finally playing, then we are eliminating a big advantage that we could have. And in the case of the Packers specifically, those "project" guys have almost always sucked (notable exceptions are the QBs). In fact I don't know if a "project" guy has ever panned out during the combined TT/BG era. Gary is maybe the closest, but he had better soon become the monster that he looked like he would become.

I agree about the league being run by morons. My Eagles friend always does a better job calling prospects than most of the GMs, as does my other friend who I mention from time to time. Both of them would outperform 2/3s of the NFL GMs if given a chance to run a team. The thing about sports is that the bar of required intelligence is very low when it comes to evaluating talent and making decisions, especially given the very limited player pool and open source availability of common evaluations.

[Pckfn23]

Preston Smith was 29 when he signed his 4 year, $52 million contract, not 31.

Kenny Clark was 28 coming off a Pro Bowl season in 2023, not 29 and trending downward.

De'Vondre Campbell was 28 when he signed his long term deal coming off an All Pro season. We signed Aaron Rodgers for a long term deal before he finished his first year starting.

Say whatever you want about Gutekunst and he sure hasn't hit on those 1st round picks, but if one wants to criticize him getting the facts straight might be a better way to go about it.

[lupedafiasco]

The real life Hermione.

[Pckfn23]

So thin skinned, I thought NJ guys were supposed to be tough...

[Yoop]

As to say that’s his only flaw I think he makes some really poor choices in giving players contracts outside of 2nd contracts. Jimmy Graham, Preston Smith, Kenny Clark, Devondre Campbell, Aaron Rodgers, then not paying Adams… the only one actually deserving. He’s gotta clean that up and make better decisions. It’s why we have been in the bottom 3rd of the league in dead money 3 straight seasons.

I'm sorry but if this is the next "worst thing" you can find then that just shows how good BG has done.

Smith was great in 2023 and his contracts kept getting pay cuts to stay with the team - he was well worth it. Clark was mid in 2024. Not stellar but certainly not a bust. Campbell fell flat in a 2nd contract period (not 3rd contract age) after 1 year being All Pro - never really had that true "2nd contract" until GB. Definitely wrong looking back but hard to indict Brian as he was in SB window going into 2021.

So honestly the two indictments of Jimmy Graham over Jordy Nelson and trading Aaron Rodgers one year too late. Those are valid criticisms where he got it wrong. But in the grand scheme of things he's doing better than many, many other GMs and it shows.

5 playoff appearances in 7 years. 2 NFC Title appearances and a transition at quarterback and really 2 complete roster turnovers in that span. He's upper tier but not at that elite tier yet and to get there....I believe he needs to do better with this first round draft capital.

As for dead cap criticism, you are going to have a field day with your boy Howie Roseman in a couple years. Dude is the king of can kicking contracts. We just haven't seen the consequences yet.

Preston Smith was not well worth it. 4 years and 52 million at the age of 31 is quite frankly retarded.

Clark has been trending downward now for a while. Statistically he had his best pass rush season before his extension but his run defense has been borderline average for 4 years. It didn’t make any sense to extend him at age 29.

Campbell was age 29 when we signed him to a long term deal. The same age that Clark was when receiving his 3rd contract. It’s closer to 3rd contract age than it is to 2nd contract age… unless we are talking about doj f something stupid like drafting a 24 year old rookie DT in the first round but why would anyone do something that dumb? Like I said with Nick Perry. You don’t sign one year wonders to long term deals. Should have been an easy franchise tag decision and make him prove it want an outlier.

As for him being better than a lot of other GMs. That really holds no weight to me. The league is literally run by a bunch of morons. That’s why every season we see near a fifth of executives get fired across the league. They’re a bunch of echo chamber buffoons. In my opinion it’s more damning that he can’t get this team over the hump when the paths for this team to win it all is so clear and he does everything he can to steer it somewhere else.

all good points, Gary is a great example of playing for a contract, his 3rd season was his best, then he was hurt for part of the 4th year, 1 good to great season out of 6, I expect LVN to boost his numbers this year, which wouldn't take much, he only has 22 total pressures in 2 seasons, 7 sacks, that's 2 top 15 picks that have shown very minimal return on investment.

why pay Rodgers, and then hamstring him with a bunch of scrub receivers, never will understand that, everyone complained about Adams getting most of the targets, simple, the drop off to #2 was staggering, can't name one that made a name for himself after leaving here.

I disagree with your opinion of GM's, I think the job is harder than your making it out to be, for one, the players they draft are often not there #1 choice, or even 2nd or 3rd choice in that particular slot, and most these days have to use UFA to over come draft misses, and even those players may be 2nd or 3rd choices, and to trade for a player requires another GM to be willing to trade with.

personally I believe draft and develop, while being the foundation of team building, is too slow to keep up with player rotation, if 3 years are required to groom up starting talent, then by the time they pop they want a new contract, and if ya can't out bid the competition your back to square one with D&D again, it's why we see teams more active buying UFA players.

I'd rather see Guty use first round picks on players more ready to start, versus taking guys with low-floor and high-ceiling, like the Gary's and LVN, Savages, Morgans, although OL often don't play much as rookies, and Alexander was fine till the injury bug.

[lupedafiasco]

that's 2 top 15 picks that have shown very minimal return on investment.

why pay Rodgers, and then hamstring him with a bunch of scrub receivers, never will understand that, everyone complained about Adams getting most of the targets, simple, the drop off to #2 was staggering, can't name one that made a name for himself after leaving here.

I disagree with your opinion of GM's, I think the job is harder than your making it out to be, for one, the players they draft are often not there #1 choice, or even 2nd or 3rd choice in that particular slot, and most these days have to use UFA to over come draft misses, and even those players may be 2nd or 3rd choices, and to trade for a player requires another GM to be willing to trade with.

personally I believe draft and develop, while being the foundation of team building, is too slow to keep up with player rotation, if 3 years are required to groom up starting talent, then by the time they pop they want a new contract, and if ya can't out bid the competition your back to square one with D&D again, it's why we see teams more active buying UFA players.

I'd rather see Guty use first round picks on players more ready to start, versus taking guys with low-floor and high-ceiling, like the Gary's and LVN, Savages, Morgans, although OL often don't play much as rookies, and Alexander was fine till the injury bug.

Yeah something I said prior to the draft where we picked Gary was that we had to expect we wouldn't be picking that high again. We needed to nail that pick. Garey is a fine player but he is what everyone kind of expected him to be which is a really athletic and good player but he is nowhere near great or elite. That pick frankly should have never been an edge considering the Z and P deals that had just been signed. Considering this team desperately needed help on the interior of their line and Wilkins, Simmons, and Lawrence went after Gary it really is an indictment on that pick.

As for the Rodgers deal I have said this multiple times. If you had the conviction to take Love you needed to stand by that pick and just move on with Love. I still believe that was a bad pick given the circumstances of where this team was and how close they were to winning in all but the minute Gutenbumst drafted Love he needed to commit to his plan of moving forward with a new QB. He tried to have his cake and eat it too by planning for the future and trying to win a SB and when you try to do both you end up with nothing.

Draft and develop is fine. That is ultimately the best way to build a team still but you need to draft and play while youre developing. Otherwise, you just arent getting the benefits of these cheap rookie deals.

[go pak go]

As to say that’s his only flaw I think he makes some really poor choices in giving players contracts outside of 2nd contracts. Jimmy Graham, Preston Smith, Kenny Clark, Devondre Campbell, Aaron Rodgers, then not paying Adams… the only one actually deserving. He’s gotta clean that up and make better decisions. It’s why we have been in the bottom 3rd of the league in dead money 3 straight seasons.

I'm sorry but if this is the next "worst thing" you can find then that just shows how good BG has done.

Smith was great in 2023 and his contracts kept getting pay cuts to stay with the team - he was well worth it. Clark was mid in 2024. Not stellar but certainly not a bust. Campbell fell flat in a 2nd contract period (not 3rd contract age) after 1 year being All Pro - never really had that true "2nd contract" until GB. Definitely wrong looking back but hard to indict Brian as he was in SB window going into 2021.

So honestly the two indictments of Jimmy Graham over Jordy Nelson and trading Aaron Rodgers one year too late. Those are valid criticisms where he got it wrong. But in the grand scheme of things he's doing better than many, many other GMs and it shows.

5 playoff appearances in 7 years. 2 NFC Title appearances and a transition at quarterback and really 2 complete roster turnovers in that span. He's upper tier but not at that elite tier yet and to get there....I believe he needs to do better with this first round draft capital.

As for dead cap criticism, you are going to have a field day with your boy Howie Roseman in a couple years. Dude is the king of can kicking contracts. We just haven't seen the consequences yet.

Preston Smith was not well worth it. 4 years and 52 million at the age of 31 is quite frankly retarded.

Clark has been trending downward now for a while. Statistically he had his best pass rush season before his extension but his run defense has been borderline average for 4 years. It didn’t make any sense to extend him at age 29.

Campbell was age 29 when we signed him to a long term deal. The same age that Clark was when receiving his 3rd contract. It’s closer to 3rd contract age than it is to 2nd contract age… unless we are talking about doj f something stupid like drafting a 24 year old rookie DT in the first round but why would anyone do something that dumb? Like I said with Nick Perry. You don’t sign one year wonders to long term deals. Should have been an easy franchise tag decision and make him prove it want an outlier.

As for him being better than a lot of other GMs. That really holds no weight to me. The league is literally run by a bunch of morons. That’s why every season we see near a fifth of executives get fired across the league. They’re a bunch of echo chamber buffoons. In my opinion it’s more damning that he can’t get this team over the hump when the paths for this team to win it all is so clear and he does everything he can to steer it somewhere else.

Couple of things:

The difference between a signing bonus and franchise tag in terms of cap hit isn't all that different. It's just spread out differently. In fact, for guys like Campbell, the franchise tag would be overpaying for a season (and one we couldn't afford in 2022). So extending is often used more as a cap system play. Teams know the cap always goes up so it's cheaper to defer dollars forward and the players get the good feeling of "comittment" even though the team can get out of it.

For Campbell let's look at specifics:

2022 - $4.2 Million in cap hit
2023 - $5.5 Million in cap hit
2024+ - $14.25 Million in dead cap
Total Cap Hit = $23.95 Million for Two Years of service.

The Franchise Tag for LB is $27,050,000 for linebacker in 2025. Obviously this is higher than it would have been in 2022 but still probably around $25 Million or so at that time. So giving a long term deal gave us two years of service, longer rights if he was actually good, and showing the player comittment for less money than franchise tagging. It's win-win for both parties. The only time you see a franchise tag is if the team legit can't give a deal the player will sign which is because the player doesn't want to play there or because the player is going to get top money at his position.

NFL contracts aren't gauranteed beyond the signing bonus the team gives the player. A long term deal isn't really that different than a ridiculously overpriced franchise tag. The same dollars end up going to the player and out of the team. It's just an accounting method of how and when that cap hit is recognized.

As for a 5th of the GMs getting fired....it's not because they are necessarily stupid or echo chambers. It's because you have 32 teams who play each other and each team is judged on performance. Not every team can be a winner. Mathematically you have to have winners and losers no matter how good everyone is...someone has to lose. You will always have turnover on the bottom. Always. It's the law of the NFL.

[lupedafiasco]

The difference between a signing bonus and franchise tag in terms of cap hit isn't all that different. It's just spread out differently. In fact, for guys like Campbell, the franchise tag would be overpaying for a season (and one we couldn't afford in 2022).

NFL contracts aren't gauranteed beyond the signing bonus the team gives the player. A long term deal isn't really that different than a ridiculously overpriced franchise tag. The same dollars end up going to the player and out of the team. It's just an accounting method of how and when that cap hit is recognized.

As for a 5th of the GMs getting fired....it's not because they are necessarily stupid or echo chambers. It's because you have 32 teams who play each other and each team is judged on performance. Not every team can be a winner. Mathematically you have to have winners and losers no matter how good everyone is...someone has to lose. You will always have turnover on the bottom. Always. It's the law of the NFL.

Glad you brought up that we couldnt afford this in 2022. And the reason being was the other bad contracts we were shelling out and still dealing with ramifications of. Kevin King for $5M was dumb when it was clear he couldnt play. Mercedes Lewis getting $3M a year. The ATROCIOUS Billy Turder deal of $7M a year. Theres a reason he couldnt get more than $2M despite, according to Packer fans how well he played here (hint: he didnt play well here). Dealing with Jimmy Grahams contract dead money. Taking Savages 5th year option when it was very clear after his 2nd year the guy had no interest in tackling. There was the Aaron Jones deal, and I get it we all loved Jones and he was a great player but we had just drafted a 2nd round RB. That goes back to getting value from you rookie contracts. It was something that I said after the Covid cap slump. The Packers needed to dump their bad ocntracts and regroup but they kept pushing money out. I dont mind pushing money out but you cant do that on bad and wasteful contracts. Mistakes are going to happen but we were making compound errors that cost us a championship. 1 or a few of these errors made is fine. All of them together crippled us.

As for GMs getting fired sure there will always be bottom teams. The league is built for parity. Its the teams that capitalize on their picks at the bottom and transform their teams that survive. We do not do that. Its only happened twice now in recent years but the two times we had high picks we took Gary who is just a fine player and LVN who has been pretty bad. In that time we have had 2 first round picks twice and with those 4 picks we landed Gary, Savage, Walker, and Wyatt. Those should have been franchise altering drafts to get two players in the top 32 each year. Twice we have made 2 2nd rounds picks and you come away with Watson who cant stay healthy and even when he is hes pretty average. The other time you get Cooper who is amazing but then follow it up with Bullard who was a bad player at S, was moved to nickel and was still pretty bad. Not calling for him to be cut just calling it how it is. The ammo that Gutenbumst has had in recent years should have this team dominating the NFC.

Instead in the last 3 seasons we have missed the playoffs once, finished twice as the 7th seed, and twice have finished 3rd in the NFC North not winning the division once. That should be the wakeup call IMO to fans that something is wrong with the GM IMO.

[williewasgreat]

There is more than GM player acquisition in play here. How about coaching? It really is an important factor.

[Acrobat]

I think the realistic answer here is that Jordan Love is a good to above average QB with the ability to show flashes of greatness if he has the right personnel and coaching around him. Based on what we've seen, he most likely will not be able to carry the team on his back like Rodgers and Favre were able to do during stretches of their career. We may be able to win a Super Bowl with him in the right circumstances, and we have mixed results when it comes to playing great in clutch scenarios. He lost his cool in the SF game in the 2023 Playoffs. The Eagles game was a disaster all around from the start. Dallas game was superb. Again, look at the average of the 3 and you have a good, not great QB capable of getting his team to the playoffs, but the championship will be won by a compliment of Jordan playing above his mean, a great running game, strong WR corp, and great defense.

[texas]

As for the Rodgers deal I have said this multiple times. If you had the conviction to take Love you needed to stand by that pick and just move on with Love. I still believe that was a bad pick given the circumstances of where this team was and how close they were to winning in all but the minute Gutenbumst drafted Love he needed to commit to his plan of moving forward with a new QB. He tried to have his cake and eat it too by planning for the future and trying to win a SB and when you try to do both you end up with nothing.

Given his track record of 1st round picks, I doubt that whoever he picked would have put us over the top.

I think the Love pick was a home run even if he turned out to be a bust, because it lit a fire under Rodgers and provoked him into giving a &%$@ again. The result was 2 MVP seasons.

[texas]

There is more than GM player acquisition in play here. How about coaching? It really is an important factor.

I think our success has been largely due to coaching. We're just not that talented. Even in 2020/2021 our roster wasn't that great but MLF made us into a #1 seed.

Unfortunately, most of the teams that win the SB are teams that are among the most talented. The classic formula is nail 2-3 drafts in a row and win it year 3. Our 2008-2009 drafts were exceptional.

[Acrobat]

As for the Rodgers deal I have said this multiple times. If you had the conviction to take Love you needed to stand by that pick and just move on with Love. I still believe that was a bad pick given the circumstances of where this team was and how close they were to winning in all but the minute Gutenbumst drafted Love he needed to commit to his plan of moving forward with a new QB. He tried to have his cake and eat it too by planning for the future and trying to win a SB and when you try to do both you end up with nothing.

Given his track record of 1st round picks, I doubt that whoever he picked would have put us over the top.

I think the Love pick was a home run even if he turned out to be a bust, because it lit a fire under Rodgers and provoked him into giving a &%$@ again. The result was 2 MVP seasons.

And Love has given us 2 straight playoffs seasons, so he already avoided the "Bust" label. Now it's more of a matter of if he can take his game to another level. But even if he gives us 5 decent seasons and the Packers decide to move on, I'd still be happy with the pick.