Packers Huddle

German_Panzer wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2020 16:13

go pak go wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2020 16:06

After your review what was the primary sticking point?

No playmakers! Recall this one bomb from Rivers into a couple of our players? That had to be intercepted. We lack a guy like Woodson or Collins in the backfield. I feel our defense in 2010 was not much different from what we had afterwards up to now, but with one exception: we got some INT's back then, whereas our later defenses don't.

I’m not sure how that pass didn’t get intercepted. For all the speed in the secondary not one guy could get in position to make a play on that duck?

Drj820 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2020 19:34

Majority of our guys def seem like they are out there to try to “play an assignment” (not a horrible thing) and they think about their assignment all play long, instead of having a handful that can keep their eye on their assignment while also looking to hawk the ball or take someone’s head off. Don’t have too many that live to put a lick on the ball carrier it seems, even if the ball carrier is ñot is his assigned area. Lots of mechanical play, not a lot of free flowing high football IQ loose play going on.

Yep it seems the assignment has higher priority than making plays.........like when the opponents receiver is continually/consistently/pervasively/ wide open with no one covering him in that 7 to 20 yard past the line of scrimmage area and well past the first down line. This happens game after game after game......2nd or 3rd down (most irritating on 3rd down). I can see if the DB or LB slips once in awhile, but not week after week. This is as bad or worse than watching Perry year after year (with or without him falling down). This is fixable by bringing in a new defensive scheme.

HOF Packers outside LB Dave Robinson proved that its OK to Favregettabout your assignment periodically and switch to improvisation mode .... when he got to Don Meredith in the 1966 season NFL Championship Game at the Cotton Bowl ..... led to a game ending interception by Tom Brown. Charles Woodson was the master at improvising on defense. We have no improvisation right now ......... maybe Z will perk up more. Or maybe not if the coaches beat up Z in the meeting rooms for improvising from his assignment.

I believe we have given up points 100% of the time our opponent is in the red-zone.

I just don't get it. Pettine is calling the D like he's trying to mask some big hole on the field... but, there is none. Our guys are pretty solid across the board. You don't want to give up the big play, fine, keep Savage deep. Underneath/intermediate stuff? You're already giving them up left and right!!

That's the most frustrating thing about our defense. It sucks, and there is no "good" reason for why it's sucking, just that our D-Coord apparently is chicken'&%$@ or something.

Labrev wrote: ↑

30 Nov 2020 11:18

I believe we have given up points 100% of the time our opponent is in the red-zone.

I just don't get it. Pettine is calling the D like he's trying to mask some big hole on the field... but, there is none. Our guys are pretty solid across the board. You don't want to give up the big play, fine, keep Savage deep. Underneath/intermediate stuff? You're already giving them up left and right!!

That's the most frustrating thing about our defense. It sucks, and there is no "good" reason for why it's sucking, just that our D-Coord apparently is chicken'&%$@ or something.

The red one defense this year hasn’t been so bad. It’s allowing people to get there that’s the problem. Last night we give up a huge run but we stabilized and held them to 3.

66.67% TD in the red zone, 23rd. Red zone TDs per game, 2.2, 20th. Red zone trips per game, 3.3, 14th.

I haven't been able to post as much recently, but the past couple of weeks I have been thinking that it might be time to move on from Pettine, depending on how the rest of the season goes. He is not as bad as Dom, but he's not what we want either. It also sort of depends on who we would bring in. We could do worse, but we could do better too. If we fired him and picked a random DC candidate, what are the odds we would improve? I'd say between 35-65% so that means go for it. Because he is not what we want and he has had 3 years, and the defense looks as bad as it has since he has been here.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

24 Nov 2020 03:10

Drj820 wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2020 11:59

go pak go wrote: ↑

23 Nov 2020 11:40

For sure. It's hard for me to yell too much at MVS when the only reason we were in OT is because of MVS.

I just cannot understand how we cant find someone on a practice squad, the wire, or sitting at home right now who can competently return a kick. Thats it, thats the only skillset they need to possess. We dont need them to do anything else. There have to be thousands walking planet earth right now who can do that and only that better than shepherd right now...yet we keep shepherd on the roster and keep letting him be a liability. I dont get it.

Incompetence at GM.

It was very clear last season teams were skyballing to force Sheppard to return and we had the worst starting field positioning in the league during that time.

For some reason we expected different. The Colts did their homework. It’s odd they can scout how poor of a returner Sheppard is and Gutey can’t. Bad GMs gonna bad GM.

he's so much like Ted in that he prioritizes some positions very high and all but avoids others, kick returner is one just as ILB is another.

not having a returner that can force teams to kick it into the end zone creats added risk of not only poor field position, but also the possibly of a turn over.

and imo the revolving door at the ILB position has been the biggest reason for why our defense can't get off the field, they don't play the run well, and they can't cover.

If the D keeps trending in this direction, Pettine is probably not getting fired. Playing better each week.

paco wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 09:38

If the D keeps trending in this direction, Pettine is probably not getting fired. Playing better each week.

I kept posting this before the Colts game for a reason. Our defense should be easily top 10 ranked at the end of the season solely based on who we are playing in December.

We should be 5 to 8th in yards and 10 to 12 in points. We actually up until yesterday trended in the wrong direction. Yesterday we improved our yards and improved our points. Sucks for the defense that 14 points were scored on fluke plays but that's how the ranking works.

Packers Team Defense:

Total Yards Allowed: 11th in the league at 339.3 Yards per Game
Total Passing Allowed: 11th in the league at 224.7 Yards per Game
Total Rushing Allowed: 13th in the league at 114.6 Yards per Game

Total Points Allowed per Game: 15th in the league at 24.9 Points per Game.
If we were to take away the 28 points that the offense allowed with Pick 6's vs TB (14 points) and two PR's for TD's, the defense would be 12th in points. But again, other teams have this happen to them too. For instance, Brady has a lot of Pick 6's that are going against the Bucs.

Honestly, we are behind where I thought we would be. We were actually 9th in yards before the Bears game so I would say it is a little disappointing for us to go backwards these two games when we played the Bears and Eagles.

paco wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 09:38

If the D keeps trending in this direction, Pettine is probably not getting fired. Playing better each week.

Yeah, you sport the 11th best D in the league and you are not getting fired. We have had injuries, and they are still bending not breaking. They need to force turnovers, something has to give there, but no way if this continues he is fired.

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 09:48

Packers Team Defense:

Total Yards Allowed: 11th in the league at 339.3 Yards per Game
Total Passing Allowed: 11th in the league at 224.7 Yards per Game
Total Rushing Allowed: 13th in the league at 114.6 Yards per Game

Total Points Allowed per Game: 15th in the league at 24.9 Points per Game.
If we were to take away the 28 points that the offense allowed with Pick 6's vs TB (14 points) and two PR's for TD's, the defense would be 12th in points. But again, other teams have this happen to them too. For instance, Brady has a lot of Pick 6's that are going against the Bucs.

Honestly, we are behind where I thought we would be. We were actually 9th in yards before the Bears game so I would say it is a little disappointing for us to go backwards these two games when we played the Bears and Eagles.

I always consider these type ratings as inconclusive, obviously a lot depends on WHO you've played and to what degree of ability they where able to produce when we played them, and most of our opponents this year sucked for 57 minutes, and we became complacent and they moved the ball in big chunks for those 3 minutes, basically I agree, we are better then our complacency for those few plays in most games.

thing is we have yet to play well for the full 60 minutes, and all it takes is a couple plays to lose, we need more of the pass rush we saw yesterday, we had 7 sacks however we probably had a doz pressures

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 10:12

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 09:48

Packers Team Defense:

Total Yards Allowed: 11th in the league at 339.3 Yards per Game
Total Passing Allowed: 11th in the league at 224.7 Yards per Game
Total Rushing Allowed: 13th in the league at 114.6 Yards per Game

Total Points Allowed per Game: 15th in the league at 24.9 Points per Game.
If we were to take away the 28 points that the offense allowed with Pick 6's vs TB (14 points) and two PR's for TD's, the defense would be 12th in points. But again, other teams have this happen to them too. For instance, Brady has a lot of Pick 6's that are going against the Bucs.

Honestly, we are behind where I thought we would be. We were actually 9th in yards before the Bears game so I would say it is a little disappointing for us to go backwards these two games when we played the Bears and Eagles.

I always consider these type ratings as inconclusive, obviously a lot depends on WHO you've played and to what degree of ability they where able to produce when we played them, and most of our opponents this year sucked for 57 minutes, and we became complacent and they moved the ball in big chunks for those 3 minutes, basically I agree, we are better then our complacency for those few plays in most games.

thing is we have yet to play well for the full 60 minutes, and all it takes is a couple plays to lose.

I mean doesn't paragraph Two respond, counter and retort to your entire Paragraph 1?

Fact is we lost to IND because we couldn't make the plays when the plays were available to be made. The Colts scored the first half because of busted coverage and the Colts scored the 2nd half because of dropped INTs opportunities and horrendous 3rd/4th and long situations.

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 10:22

Fact is we lost to IND because we couldn't make the plays when the plays were available to be made. The Colts scored the first half because of busted coverage and the Colts scored the 2nd half because of dropped INTs opportunities and horrendous 3rd/4th and long situations.

Yeah. OBVIOUSLY winning and losing matters tremendously, and it stinks to lose a game you could win, especially in a season of only 16 games--every W counts.

That said, I am not concerned with having a perfect season and watching the Colts game, I felt like by the eye test we were the better team. They were the team that deserved to win that day; had we pulled it out, it would have been because of 6 holding calls on one drive. But I didn't watch that game and think "here's a team that we don't match up with" or "here's a team that it takes a great performance from us to beat." I thought "we're better than them and we let that one slip away with far too many mistakes."

I found it very strange that a game that turned on 4 turnovers and back-to-back 3&outs on our first two offensive possessions after halftime was defined primarily as a defensive failure, but such is life when you give up 30+ points and allow a couple of long, arduous drives that are frustrating to watch.

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 10:22

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 10:12

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 09:48

Packers Team Defense:

Total Yards Allowed: 11th in the league at 339.3 Yards per Game
Total Passing Allowed: 11th in the league at 224.7 Yards per Game
Total Rushing Allowed: 13th in the league at 114.6 Yards per Game

Total Points Allowed per Game: 15th in the league at 24.9 Points per Game.
If we were to take away the 28 points that the offense allowed with Pick 6's vs TB (14 points) and two PR's for TD's, the defense would be 12th in points. But again, other teams have this happen to them too. For instance, Brady has a lot of Pick 6's that are going against the Bucs.

Honestly, we are behind where I thought we would be. We were actually 9th in yards before the Bears game so I would say it is a little disappointing for us to go backwards these two games when we played the Bears and Eagles.

I always consider these type ratings as inconclusive, obviously a lot depends on WHO you've played and to what degree of ability they where able to produce when we played them, and most of our opponents this year sucked for 57 minutes, and we became complacent and they moved the ball in big chunks for those 3 minutes, basically I agree, we are better then our complacency for those few plays in most games.

thing is we have yet to play well for the full 60 minutes, and all it takes is a couple plays to lose.

I mean doesn't paragraph Two respond, counter and retort to your entire Paragraph 1?

Fact is we lost to IND because we couldn't make the plays when the plays were available to be made. The Colts scored the first half because of busted coverage and the Colts scored the 2nd half because of dropped INTs opportunities and horrendous 3rd/4th and long situations.

lis, these ratings only give a over all perception,and are often mis leading, if ya play a bunch of wussie offenses the defense will appear to be better then it actually is, on the other shoe, if ya play a bunch of the best offenses and rank #15 over all, then obviously your defense is better then that rating portrays.

I never really thought Pettine would be fired, the revolving door at ILB is a real issue that he really has no control over, and he built the DL to rush the passer, who wouldn't, after all it is a passing league, problem is OC know this, so they run, the answer imho is we need improvement at ILB, player that wont handicap our coverage, yet are still stout enough to play the run, we accomplish that and you'll have your top 10 defense, least thats how I see this issue.

paco wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 09:38

If the D keeps trending in this direction, Pettine is probably not getting fired. Playing better each week.

I really think having Kevin King back on the field is a big difference-maker. Pettine's designs rely on his coverages to lock things down.

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 13:14

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 10:22

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 10:12

I always consider these type ratings as inconclusive, obviously a lot depends on WHO you've played and to what degree of ability they where able to produce when we played them, and most of our opponents this year sucked for 57 minutes, and we became complacent and they moved the ball in big chunks for those 3 minutes, basically I agree, we are better then our complacency for those few plays in most games.

thing is we have yet to play well for the full 60 minutes, and all it takes is a couple plays to lose.

I mean doesn't paragraph Two respond, counter and retort to your entire Paragraph 1?

Fact is we lost to IND because we couldn't make the plays when the plays were available to be made. The Colts scored the first half because of busted coverage and the Colts scored the 2nd half because of dropped INTs opportunities and horrendous 3rd/4th and long situations.

lis, these ratings only give a over all perception,and are often mis leading, if ya play a bunch of wussie offenses the defense will appear to be better then it actually is, on the other shoe, if ya play a bunch of the best offenses and rank #15 over all, then obviously your defense is better then that rating portrays.

This is true to a degree but the data tends to even itself out over a 16 game schedule. You tend to be who you are after 16 games.

Our defense played the league's better offenses the first 10 games of the schedule. Our last 6 games is by far our "easier" offensive stretch of opponents. So we would have the expectation that our defensive stats would improve this last month. So far, this hasn't happened which I think is a bit of a disappointment.

I mean absolutely you will have a case where the Saints play a practice squad WR turned QB and have more interceptions than the QB had completions. That game will absolutely skew the Saints total year defensive statistics to better than reality. But you also then watch the Saints play other teams and you start to see that their unit is just also a really good defense.

As for us. We don't really have too much for outliers. We don't have a 40+ points allowed game or a 500+ yard allowed game. So I would say our defensive statistics of being 10th to 15 right now is right where we would expect to be based on the eye test.

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 13:14

I never really thought Pettine would be fired, the revolving door at ILB is a real issue that he really has no control over, and he built the DL to rush the passer, who wouldn't, after all it is a passing league, problem is OC know this, so they run, the answer imho is we need improvement at ILB, player that wont handicap our coverage, yet are still stout enough to play the run, we accomplish that and you'll have your top 10 defense, least thats how I see this issue.

Yeah I can't get behind that. You should already have a top 10 defense when you have a top 5 secondary, particularly top 5 CB group, supposedly top 5 pass rushing group and a Blue Chip DT.

I mean we have far, far worse resources and players on our offensive line and yet look at what the scheme and coaching has done for that group.

This defense has the talent to be a top 10 unit. And honestly a top 10 unit isn't that GREAT of a defense. Super Bowl winning defenses are top 5 defenses. The Packers have never won a Super Bowl with a defense worse than a top 5 defense.

Our largest issues post bye is primarily us not being able to get off the field when we are supposed to get off the field. If that continues in the post season, that is what will end up ending this defense. And I do place blame on coaching there.

There clearly has been something off on defense this year where production isn't lining up with talent. By no means do you fire Pettine now. But I think you do need to move on and get Matt's guy if it doesn't improve the next two months.

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 09:48

Packers Team Defense:

Total Yards Allowed: 11th in the league at 339.3 Yards per Game
Total Passing Allowed: 11th in the league at 224.7 Yards per Game
Total Rushing Allowed: 13th in the league at 114.6 Yards per Game

Total Points Allowed per Game: 15th in the league at 24.9 Points per Game.
If we were to take away the 28 points that the offense allowed with Pick 6's vs TB (14 points) and two PR's for TD's, the defense would be 12th in points. But again, other teams have this happen to them too. For instance, Brady has a lot of Pick 6's that are going against the Bucs.

Honestly, we are behind where I thought we would be. We were actually 9th in yards before the Bears game so I would say it is a little disappointing for us to go backwards these two games when we played the Bears and Eagles.

We got Detroit, Carolina, Tennessee, and Chicago left, not exactly the who's who of offenses coming up. No particularly bad other than Chicago, but not one there that should scare anyone. I would expect us to end top 10 in yards, would be cool to get scoring in top 10 as well, enter January football with some real confidence on D.

go pak go wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 13:30

Yoop wrote: ↑

07 Dec 2020 13:14

I never really thought Pettine would be fired, the revolving door at ILB is a real issue that he really has no control over, and he built the DL to rush the passer, who wouldn't, after all it is a passing league, problem is OC know this, so they run, the answer imho is we need improvement at ILB, player that wont handicap our coverage, yet are still stout enough to play the run, we accomplish that and you'll have your top 10 defense, least thats how I see this issue.

Yeah I can't get behind that. You should already have a top 10 defense when you have a top 5 secondary, particularly top 5 CB group, supposedly top 5 pass rushing group and a Blue Chip DT.

I mean we have far, far worse resources and players on our offensive line and yet look at what the scheme and coaching has done for that group.

This defense has the talent to be a top 10 unit. And honestly a top 10 unit isn't that GREAT of a defense. Super Bowl winning defenses are top 5 defenses. The Packers have never won a Super Bowl with a defense worse than a top 5 defense.

Our largest issues post bye is primarily us not being able to get off the field when we are supposed to get off the field. If that continues in the post season, that is what will end up ending this defense. And I do place blame on coaching there.

There clearly has been something off on defense this year where production isn't lining up with talent. By no means do you fire Pettine now. But I think you do need to move on and get Matt's guy if it doesn't improve the next two months.

doesn't matter if you have a #1 coverage secondary, doesn't matter if you have great pass rushers, if you can't stop the run do those ratings even matter? and just as one rotten apple spoils the barrel, one weak position on defense taints the production against the better offenses, it always comes down to matchups, for instance offenses with excellent run blocking a stud RB will lock us into our run stopping group, and if they go no huddle, now they can pass against our weak coverage, just as the Colts did to start the 2nd half and they dinked and dunked us for 7 points.

look I'am not so concerned with retaining Pettine, but unless Kirksey, Martin and Barnes become better in coverage that position is going to kill us against teams like last years 49's, this years Bucs, or the Saints if Bree's gets healthy.

look I'am not trying to win a argument or debate about this, what I'am saying is obvious, there are a half doz articles at JS oline, acme, and other packers news sight that will tell you the same thing