But honestly in those situation, run the ball. If they are dropping 8, they are asking you to run ball. And when you are up 21 to 3....isn't that what you would naturally want to do?
However, in the 2nd half especially, they put 7-8 in the box. Jones, Lafleur or Rodgers mentioned this.
I can agree. The 2nd half issues were more just lack of execution. Tonyan's missed blocked. Adams's dropped ball. Rodgers's poor read. These were 3 drives stopped because of poor execution. The plays were there but all three drives we didn't execute. Every person was to blame and this led to punting and our offense not getting into rhythm.
MLF also did say though the defense was asking them to run more and MLF is disappointed he didn't do it.
Watch 3:14 to like 5:30.
Re: 2020 Packer Pro Bowlers
Posted: 22 Dec 2020 10:41
by YoHoChecko
It looked to me on a couple of occasions, at least, that the Panthers were crowding the box pre-snap but playing coverage at the snap.
So there'd be 8 in the box and Rodgers would decide to go with the quick pass rather than the run, but at the snap the slot corner would sprint into the flat, the off corners would be moving downhill, and the LBs would drop and the quick pass option would get swallowed immediately. But it kept happening.
Re: 2020 Packer Pro Bowlers
Posted: 22 Dec 2020 10:49
by BF004
Only 2 rookies on the pro bowl rosters this year (Chase Young and Justin Jefferson).
Gave a quick google search and can't find historic numbers, but that seems very low to me. I know at least Josh Allen, Bosa, and Hardman made it last year off the top of my head.
It looked to me on a couple of occasions, at least, that the Panthers were crowding the box pre-snap but playing coverage at the snap.
So there'd be 8 in the box and Rodgers would decide to go with the quick pass rather than the run, but at the snap the slot corner would sprint into the flat, the off corners would be moving downhill, and the LBs would drop and the quick pass option would get swallowed immediately. But it kept happening.
Yeah I think it was Donte Jackson on a particular play that completely sniffed out a Read run Option and sprinted to get Adams on a quick out. Adams didn't stand a chance.
I just wonder if other teams will be able to do that and what we can do to counter it. Because those quick throws is an offensive lifeline for us that usually nets 6 to 12 yards a pop.
Only 2 rookies on the pro bowl rosters this year (Chase Young and Justin Jefferson).
Gave a quick google search and can't find historic numbers, but that seems very low to me. I know at least Josh Allen, Bosa, and Hardman made it last year off the top of my head.
It looked to me on a couple of occasions, at least, that the Panthers were crowding the box pre-snap but playing coverage at the snap.
So there'd be 8 in the box and Rodgers would decide to go with the quick pass rather than the run, but at the snap the slot corner would sprint into the flat, the off corners would be moving downhill, and the LBs would drop and the quick pass option would get swallowed immediately. But it kept happening.
Yeah I think it was Donte Jackson on a particular play that completely sniffed out a Read run Option and sprinted to get Adams on a quick out. Adams didn't stand a chance.
I just wonder if other teams will be able to do that and what we can do to counter it. Because those quick throws is an offensive lifeline for us that usually nets 6 to 12 yards a pop.
if ya want people to dance then ya have to play a tune that makes people move there feet?
translation= more pre snap motion is a 8 in the box destroyer, we only did it 3 or 4 times against the Panthers, I expect because Lafluer doesn't want to open his bag of tricks unless he has to, why put anything to game film for up coming opponents to study.
It looked to me on a couple of occasions, at least, that the Panthers were crowding the box pre-snap but playing coverage at the snap.
So there'd be 8 in the box and Rodgers would decide to go with the quick pass rather than the run, but at the snap the slot corner would sprint into the flat, the off corners would be moving downhill, and the LBs would drop and the quick pass option would get swallowed immediately. But it kept happening.
Yeah I think it was Donte Jackson on a particular play that completely sniffed out a Read run Option and sprinted to get Adams on a quick out. Adams didn't stand a chance.
I just wonder if other teams will be able to do that and what we can do to counter it. Because those quick throws is an offensive lifeline for us that usually nets 6 to 12 yards a pop.
if ya want people to dance then ya have to play a tune that makes people move there feet?
translation= more pre snap motion is a 8 in the box destroyer, we only did it 3 or 4 times against the Panthers, I expect because Lafluer doesn't want to open his bag of tricks unless he has to, why put anything to game film for up coming opponents to study.
Can't find stats for it, but they were coming into the game 50-60% presnap motion on the season, so I guarantee you it was more than 3 or 4 times they did it. It did seem like they got away from some of their bread and butter stuff after the early lead. I was pretty disappointed in the non-leap made by Tavon Austin's usage in his second game. I felt Carolina got pretty lucky in how they attacked our offense and the Packers played into their hands by running into a brick wall and going for kill shots. They backed off on all the right plays and we didn't adjust to just running our offense.
Re: 2020 Packer Pro Bowlers
Posted: 22 Dec 2020 11:18
by YoHoChecko
Honestly, isn't the counter just "Hey Aaron, don't do the quick pass every time you think you can. Sometimes, run it against the tougher front. We can handle it."
That at least keeps the D a bit more honest. I mean can you imagine how easy the kick-out block would be off tackle if the DB is already moving toward the flat, or how easily a G could get a retreating LB off their spot if you get to the second level faster?
I know the D can read and react, too, but sometimes you just have to run it even if the front isn't ideal for it. Otherwise you're getting too predictable.
Honestly, isn't the counter just "Hey Aaron, don't do the quick pass every time you think you can. Sometimes, run it against the tougher front. We can handle it."
That at least keeps the D a bit more honest. I mean can you imagine how easy the kick-out block would be off tackle if the DB is already moving toward the flat, or how easily a G could get a retreating LB off their spot if you get to the second level faster?
I know the D can read and react, too, but sometimes you just have to run it even if the front isn't ideal for it. Otherwise you're getting too predictable.
Only 2 rookies on the pro bowl rosters this year (Chase Young and Justin Jefferson).
Gave a quick google search and can't find historic numbers, but that seems very low to me. I know at least Josh Allen, Bosa, and Hardman made it last year off the top of my head.
Justin Jefferson
If those tears are because we couldn't draft him we would have had to give up a boat load of picks to move up that much.
Only 2 rookies on the pro bowl rosters this year (Chase Young and Justin Jefferson).
Gave a quick google search and can't find historic numbers, but that seems very low to me. I know at least Josh Allen, Bosa, and Hardman made it last year off the top of my head.
Justin Jefferson
If those tears are because we couldn't draft him we would have had to give up a boat load of picks to move up that much.
didn't slow us down for moving up the same amount to get Savage in the 2019 draft class though Pugger, instead Gute took a player that depending on Rodgers health may never see the field his whole rookie contract, now it's impossible to say if Jefferson would have contributed for us what he has for the Vikes, but he has near single handidly revitalized Kirk Cousins fledgling career
If those tears are because we couldn't draft him we would have had to give up a boat load of picks to move up that much.
didn't slow us down for moving up the same amount to get Savage in the 2019 draft class though Pugger, instead Gute took a player that depending on Rodgers health may never see the field his whole rookie contract, now it's impossible to say if Jefferson would have contributed for us what he has for the Vikes, but he has near single handidly revitalized Kirk Cousins fledgling career
It cost us an extra pick in that draft move up 4 spots to get Love. It would have taken more than one to move up another 4 to get Jefferson. I seriously doubt MN was going to make a deal with us either.
Re: 2020 Packer Pro Bowlers
Posted: 22 Dec 2020 13:57
by BSA
Pro Bowlers cost more- and for a cash-strapped team- it has a little sting to it
Davante Adams, David Bakhtiari, and Za'Darius Smith all have earned 2021 Pro Bowl escalators in their contracts.
Their base salaries have increased by a combined $1,000,000 for next season.
Re: 2020 Packer Pro Bowlers
Posted: 22 Dec 2020 14:17
by APB
Yoop wrote:it's impossible to say if Jefferson would have contributed for us what he has for the Vikes...
Yet that doesn't stop you from continually bitching and moaning in thread after thread about the Packers not moving up to select him despite the considerable draft capital it would have taken to move up that far as well as the willingness, or lack thereof, for a team to even entertain a hypothetical offer.
On top of that, in order for Jefferson to have had the impact you seem to think he would have had, a great many of Davante Adams' targets would have likely had to go his way. Adams or Aaron Jones' touches, anyway. Its not like any of the other offensive players had that many touches to redirect to Jefferson. And if it's me, I'd just as soon our two proven playmakers get as many touches as I can feed them over some unproven rookie.
I mean, seriously. This continual carrying on about not getting Jefferson, a player long gone before we ever had a sniff of the draft board, is completely asinine.
If those tears are because we couldn't draft him we would have had to give up a boat load of picks to move up that much.
didn't slow us down for moving up the same amount to get Savage in the 2019 draft class though Pugger, instead Gute took a player that depending on Rodgers health may never see the field his whole rookie contract, now it's impossible to say if Jefferson would have contributed for us what he has for the Vikes, but he has near single handidly revitalized Kirk Cousins fledgling career
It cost us an extra pick in that draft move up 4 spots to get Love. It would have taken more than one to move up another 4 to get Jefferson. I seriously doubt MN was going to make a deal with us either.
No way Minny is trading us their pick. No way. Highly doubtful Philly at 21 trades with us, either. They were also looking for a WR, they picked Reagor, and the way the WRs were coming off the board it didn't take a rocket scientist to know they'd have all been gone at 30.
So that leaves Jacksonville at 20 as the most likely trade partner. Moving up 10 picks would have cost us pretty much the rest of the draft. The picks worth a darn, anyway. That, or likely a day 1-2 pick next year, as well.
So no, the trade up for Jefferson wish just was never gonna happen. He was out of our reach.
If those tears are because we couldn't draft him we would have had to give up a boat load of picks to move up that much.
didn't slow us down for moving up the same amount to get Savage in the 2019 draft class though Pugger, instead Gute took a player that depending on Rodgers health may never see the field his whole rookie contract, now it's impossible to say if Jefferson would have contributed for us what he has for the Vikes, but he has near single handidly revitalized Kirk Cousins fledgling career
Pretty sure whoever we called MN would have upped our price.
MN had way more draft capital than we did. I mean way more. So if we give up a 3rd to go from 30 to 20...which the Jaguars wouldn't have taken....I guarantee you the Jaguars would be on the phone with MN and Philly saying, "Hey. Green Bay is trying to trade up. Likely for a WR. You got an offer for me?" ....and the price just gets higher and higher.
I will at least understand complaints about not taking TJ Watt. Not taking Patrick Queen. Not taking Erik Kendricks or Myles Jack.
These are all players that were on the board when the Packers were on the clock. But to complain about not taking someone who went 8 spots before our pick is ridiculous yoop. We have no idea what the price would have been or if a team like the Jaguars or Eagles would have wanted to deal with us or drop that far. That is all speculation on your end.
Only 2 rookies on the pro bowl rosters this year (Chase Young and Justin Jefferson).
Gave a quick google search and can't find historic numbers, but that seems very low to me. I know at least Josh Allen, Bosa, and Hardman made it last year off the top of my head.
Justin Jefferson
I am right there with you. Won't make assumptions if we could have gotten up to, what, 21? or likely higher, division rival wouldn't trade with us. I wanted to give up our 1 and 2 for Lamb when he started dropping.
image.png (90.86 KiB) Viewed 248 times
My thought process at the time for a 2nd round grade was if I'd prefer the Packers take that player at 30 (1st round grade) or trade back and get more value. Hence only 21 guys with a 1st round grade, none of them named Jordan Love.
Re: 2020 Packer Pro Bowlers
Posted: 22 Dec 2020 14:59
by Labrev
Okay, nice set up, now let's just sit back and enjoy the show...
Yoop wrote:it's impossible to say if Jefferson would have contributed for us what he has for the Vikes...
Yet that doesn't stop you from continually bitching and moaning in thread after thread about the Packers not moving up to select him despite the considerable draft capital it would have taken to move up that far as well as the willingness, or lack thereof, for a team to even entertain a hypothetical offer.
On top of that, in order for Jefferson to have had the impact you seem to think he would have had, a great many of Davante Adams' targets would have likely had to go his way. Adams or Aaron Jones' touches, anyway. Its not like any of the other offensive players had that many touches to redirect to Jefferson. And if it's me, I'd just as soon our two proven playmakers get as many touches as I can feed them over some unproven rookie.
I mean, seriously. This continual carrying on about not getting Jefferson, a player long gone before we ever had a sniff of the draft board, is completely asinine.
quit your crying, it's worse then me simply pointing out our ability to do what we didn't, and your just making up excuses as to why JJ wouldn't have excelled here, he wouldn't have taken any away from Adams, what he would have done was get open faster then any receiver not named Adams, he would have juiced up our up tempo offense against teams with good coverage and excellent pass rush, which we lack now.
your just pissed off because I'am right, to funny.
