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Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 15:24
by YoHoChecko
British wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 15:21
If Rodgers is going, I don't see them keeping Adams, nor him wanting to stay.
So you want us to trot out Jordan Love with Allen Lazard, Amari Rodgers, and rookies? You're begging the heir apparent to fail like that.
I get that maybe Adams wouldn't be as into staying, but we need Adams
MORE if Rodgers leaves.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 15:53
by go pak go
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 15:24
British wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 15:21
If Rodgers is going, I don't see them keeping Adams, nor him wanting to stay.
So you want us to trot out Jordan Love with Allen Lazard, Amari Rodgers, and rookies? You're begging the heir apparent to fail like that.
I get that maybe Adams wouldn't be as into staying, but we need Adams
MORE if Rodgers leaves.
Yeah I'd give up the Smith boys, MVS, Tonyan (I wonder how much he actually will be) to keep Adams in a heartbeat if we move onto Jordan Love. Adams is the only real offensive player at that point where I'm like, "we gotta make this happen" if we move on from Rodgers.
Boost up your defense with the 3 CBs, Amos, Savage, Gary, Draft Pick Edge, Campbell and then draft pick Oline (probably an awesome guard or development LT), the patented Rd 2 WR to be the eventual #2 with the rest of the roster and we can be a solid football team.
Keep the opponent score low. Prioritize STs. Run the ball. Ask Love to throw like 25 times a game and I think the team could be in that 10 to 12 win range.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 16:03
by British
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 15:24
British wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 15:21
If Rodgers is going, I don't see them keeping Adams, nor him wanting to stay.
So you want us to trot out Jordan Love with Allen Lazard, Amari Rodgers, and rookies? You're begging the heir apparent to fail like that.
I get that maybe Adams wouldn't be as into staying, but we need Adams
MORE if Rodgers leaves.
Personally I don't see Adams wanting to stay without Rodgers. Without Rodgers I believe he will refuse to sign an extension.
So we would be tagging him and forcing him to play under the tag against his will. In a rebuilding year where we won't be contending for the Superbowl.
Adams will be extremely pissed off. I'm not sure that's the atmosphere we will want from our best player in Love's first year leading the locker room. We would then lose Adams for a comp pick.
I'd rather trade Adams, use that 1st round pick to get one of the excellent crop of WRs in this '22 draft class who can forge a relationship with Love as they grow together.
We then use a good chunk of Adams' cap space to re-sign a vet WR who can help Love. Maybe Allen Robinson, Christian Kirk etc. It might also mean we could keep MVS or Tonyan who will be somewhat familiar with Love.
With a rock solid OL and the best running game in the league I think Love will be in a position to grow.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 16:19
by bud fox
Davante Adams had his lowest YPC and total yards game with Love this year.
If Packers trade Rodgers and Tag Adams I don't see it being pretty. Adams does not want to play a contract year with Jordan Love at QB.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 16:20
by Drj820
Adams hinted it would be ugly today in his presser when asked. He didnt elaborate, but the connotation was obvious.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 16:38
by Drj820
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 16:38
by go pak go
Yeah Tagging ain't happening.
Like financially we can't swing it. And personally it would be a d*ck move. This is just something the Packers don't do. We won't do it with Adams.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 16:46
by BF004
Scrolling through the list of teams that might be interested in Rodgers.
Trading Love is a real outside shot, we'd only save <10K by trading him. No big reason to do that unless we are talking a 1st rounder +.
But good teams who could contend with Aaron: (4 teams)
Miami - Lot of smoke of them wanting Watson, really really good D and promising young O
Cleveland - Team can either try to bring in a vet or blow the whole thing up. They are gunna be too good likely to get a high QB in the draft, and they are already peaking on salary. Might combine to have the two best trenches in football. Baker is on his 5th year option, not exactly sure what that means for trying to move on, but I think clear his time is Cleveland is over this year or next.
Pittsburgh - Good coach, no QB plan whatsoever, some elite talent, Aaron would get them to compete.
Saints - Not sure on their cap hell still and not sure we wanna trade him to the NFC, but I would try not to worry to much about that. They aren't afraid to make aggressive moves.
Teams who are think they are better than they are and think Aaron could be their missing piece. (3 teams)
Las Vegas - No coach, no direction, subpar roster, yet they think they can compete. Get the right coach, maybe..
Denver - Same, just not a good enough roster. Few flashy pieces on O, but appears more draft hype than quality players right now.
Washington - If you could veto a trade, I would here.
Teams who need QB's, draft, trade or FA and aren't an Aaron away from competing. Maybe Jordan Love possibilities (outside of Detroit) (5 teams)
Houston
Detroit
Atlanta
Giants
Panthers
Outside chances if they happen to move on from their own QB's or retirements (2 teams)
Seattle - This would be kind of a net neutral if they move Wilson and then immediately need someone else. I don't think their roster is good enough. Carroll is on borrowed and might wanna make a big move in his dying days, but they are more likely to be interested in Love.
Tampa Bay - Pretty stacked roster if Aaron decides to hang them up. Would honestly be pretty of Tampa to move on from TB12 to ARod.
I count that as up to 14 teams that could or should use a QB this offseason. Although more like 13 if Seattle trades Russell, since they wouldn't effect supply and demand. 12 if Brady comes back.
Available QBs: Watson, Rodgers/Love, Winston, maybe Matt Ryan, maybe Derek Carr (I think he's better than he is given credit for and just on a &%$@ team, 0 dead cap to move on from his this offseason), Wilson (but neutral move). So I maybe count that as a maximum of 5.
Not a good year for QB's, although you can see up to about 6 QB's in the first round in some mocks, almost never that high so doubting that will happen.
Seems like there is simply gunna be a fair shortage of QB's to go around this offseason. Might see the asking price in trades maybe be higher than anticipating.
This would be a good year for Brady to retire, feel like that could really open up another huge hole for a QB on a good team and probably end up being the favorite destination for a Rodgers/Wilson/Watson, only 3 who can win this year.
Way to crazy to even begin thinking about realistic possibilities. Should be a fun offseason. Let's just hope Love goes like 20-24 and 300 and 4 this Sunday and just makes us feel better about everything.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 16:48
by BF004
Things like this a fair reason it might be smart for Aaron to stray away from getting his nose in personnel decisions.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 16:48
by YoHoChecko
Adams said earlier this week that obviously there is some link between his fate and Rodgers' and that it is "not as simple as 'if he stays I stay, if he goes, I go.'"
Adams also was deep in contract talks before the season, even when Rodgers' fate was up in the air--had the Packers met his "highest paid" demand, he'd already be locked up. Gutey and Adams both spoke to the fact that that highest paid is what Davante deserves, but there are different interpretations of what that means, so it feels as confirmed as we can get what the sticking point was there.
Today he was asked if he's thinking about the Hall of Fame and whether his pursuit of that plays into his thinking about remaining paired with a great QB; he started with yes, the HoF is on his mind--not every day or anything, but in your mind is where great things have to start. Cool line, really. But to our point here, he said as far as the QB, he's played with the greatest ever, he knows it's made his job easier, he likes to think he's not the type who needs to lean on a QB and that if he didn't have a QB, he'd still be able to make some catches and ball out; but the team he's on, and the amount he wins, and whether he gets a ring will play into it. He specifically said "being a Green Bay Packer will help me" not "which team I'm on will matter."
Later he was asked about the tag, and THEN he made the franchise tag comment... I agree that he would not look kindly upon a franchise tag; I agreed with that before he said it. But I don't think we can or should view these two as a package deal by default. If he's offered the right contract, he will stay. If he is not, he will want to go.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 16:52
by YoHoChecko
Also, if you're listening to the Adams presser today, and if you think letting Davante go won't have a major impact on the development of whoever comes in to replace him, listen to his commentary on the type of hard coaching he provided to Lazard, and Lazard's expression of appreciation for bringing it to him and the guy he's been for him over the years....
plus earlier in the presser, Adams also talked about how with him and Cobb back at practice now, it's so good to have more veteran eyes on the guys and all the things they can teach.
Losing Davante will set back the Packers' WR group for like 2-3 years, as his replacements are unlikely to be as good as he is AND they will develop more slowly without his presence, because he is the absolutely perfect pro role model, worker, and tactician. The cupboard is really bare there.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 17:10
by BF004
Can we just turn off salary cap for 1 year like in madden?
RIP John
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 17:12
by British
Seems to me there are two good outcomes with Adams this off-season and one bad one.
The good: We sign him to an extension or we trade him for a 1st(+)
The bad: We lose him for a comp pick.
Those feel like the only three likely outcomes. 66% chance of success.
In Gute We Trust.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 17:14
by bud fox
Of course Davante will be fine if he gets long term deal but Rodgers leaves. He got the bag and just play out his career.
If he gets tagged though, he definitely would want Rodgers throwing him the ball because he wants that last contract. He plays next year with Love on the tag and has his worst season in recent years - good bye big money send off
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 17:15
by bud fox
British wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 17:12
Seems to me there are two good outcomes with Adams this off-season and one bad one.
The good: We sign him to an extension or we trade him for a 1st(+)
The bad: We lose him for a comp pick.
Those feel like the only three likely outcomes. 66% chance of success.
In Gute We Trust.
No way the packers let him hit free agency without tag. It is just beyond incompetent if that happens.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 17:20
by BF004
British wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 17:12
Seems to me there are two good outcomes with Adams this off-season and one bad one.
The good: We sign him to an extension or we trade him for a 1st(+)
The bad: We lose him for a comp pick.
Those feel like the only three likely outcomes. 66% chance of success.
In Gute We Trust.
Normally I would agree, but I crunching some numbers, I don't see how we can tag davante without inflicting pretty great personal harm. That being, you don't just let the top player at a 2nd most important position outside of QB just walk. You keep those players on your team.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 17:20
by BF004
British wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 17:12
Seems to me there are two good outcomes with Adams this off-season and one bad one.
The good: We sign him to an extension or we trade him for a 1st(+)
The bad: We lose him for a comp pick.
Those feel like the only three likely outcomes. 66% chance of success.
In Gute We Trust.
Normally I would agree, but I crunching some numbers, I don't see how we can tag davante without inflicting pretty great personal harm. That being, you don't just let the top player at a 2nd most important position outside of QB just walk. You keep those players on your team.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 17:26
by wallyuwl
BF004 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 16:46
Scrolling through the list of teams that might be interested in Rodgers.
Trading Love is a real outside shot, we'd only save <10K by trading him. No big reason to do that unless we are talking a 1st rounder +.
But good teams who could contend with Aaron: (4 teams)
Miami - Lot of smoke of them wanting Watson, really really good D and promising young O
Cleveland - Team can either try to bring in a vet or blow the whole thing up. They are gunna be too good likely to get a high QB in the draft, and they are already peaking on salary. Might combine to have the two best trenches in football. Baker is on his 5th year option, not exactly sure what that means for trying to move on, but I think clear his time is Cleveland is over this year or next.
Pittsburgh - Good coach, no QB plan whatsoever, some elite talent, Aaron would get them to compete.
Saints - Not sure on their cap hell still and not sure we wanna trade him to the NFC, but I would try not to worry to much about that. They aren't afraid to make aggressive moves.
Teams who are think they are better than they are and think Aaron could be their missing piece. (3 teams)
Las Vegas - No coach, no direction, subpar roster, yet they think they can compete. Get the right coach, maybe..
Denver - Same, just not a good enough roster. Few flashy pieces on O, but appears more draft hype than quality players right now.
Washington - If you could veto a trade, I would here.
Teams who need QB's, draft, trade or FA and aren't an Aaron away from competing. Maybe Jordan Love possibilities (outside of Detroit) (5 teams)
Houston
Detroit
Atlanta
Giants
Panthers
Outside chances if they happen to move on from their own QB's or retirements (2 teams)
Seattle - This would be kind of a net neutral if they move Wilson and then immediately need someone else. I don't think their roster is good enough. Carroll is on borrowed and might wanna make a big move in his dying days, but they are more likely to be interested in Love.
Tampa Bay - Pretty stacked roster if Aaron decides to hang them up. Would honestly be pretty of Tampa to move on from TB12 to ARod.
I count that as up to 14 teams that could or should use a QB this offseason. Although more like 13 if Seattle trades Russell, since they wouldn't effect supply and demand. 12 if Brady comes back.
Available QBs: Watson, Rodgers/Love, Winston, maybe Matt Ryan, maybe Derek Carr (I think he's better than he is given credit for and just on a &%$@ team, 0 dead cap to move on from his this offseason), Wilson (but neutral move). So I maybe count that as a maximum of 5.
Not a good year for QB's, although you can see up to about 6 QB's in the first round in some mocks, almost never that high so doubting that will happen.
Seems like there is simply gunna be a fair shortage of QB's to go around this offseason. Might see the asking price in trades maybe be higher than anticipating.
This would be a good year for Brady to retire, feel like that could really open up another huge hole for a QB on a good team and probably end up being the favorite destination for a Rodgers/Wilson/Watson, only 3 who can win this year.
Way to crazy to even begin thinking about realistic possibilities. Should be a fun offseason. Let's just hope Love goes like 20-24 and 300 and 4 this Sunday and just makes us feel better about everything.
Not a bad analysis, but no GM is going to offer more than a 5th for Love. And thatvwould take one that really liked him in the draft.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 17:34
by BF004
wallyuwl wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 17:26
Not a bad analysis, but no GM is going to offer more than a 5th for Love. And thatvwould take one that really liked him in the draft.
Very strongly disagree. As I showed there is a pretty large shortage of QBs. Let Love play in his second game, could move his stock a round; we just don’t know what we don’t know as fans.
Ron Wolf was in love with Favre and got in a position of power to make a play for him. Love was a coveted prospect GB did trade up for him.
Love still has 3 years of cheap control and about the best nurturing environment you could be in. Not a good QB class. I might be way more inclined to throw a 2nd for Love than waste a first on a random. Especially if I thought my team was ready to compete.
Re: 2022 Cap
Posted: 05 Jan 2022 17:38
by bud fox
BF004 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 17:34
wallyuwl wrote: ↑05 Jan 2022 17:26
Not a bad analysis, but no GM is going to offer more than a 5th for Love. And thatvwould take one that really liked him in the draft.
Very strongly disagree. As I showed there is a pretty large shortage of QBs. Let Love play in his second game, could move his stock a round; we just don’t know what we don’t know as fans.
Ron Wolf was in love with Favre and got in a position of power to make a play for him. Love was a coveted prospect GB did trade up for him.
Love still has 3 years of cheap control and about the best nurturing environment you could be in. Not a good QB class. I might be way more inclined to throw a 2nd for Love than waste a first on a random. Especially if I thought my team was ready to compete.
You might but that's because you're a packer fan. I would hope maybe we could get a 4th for him but probably unlikely. He didn't play good against the chiefs in his second year. The other day he had two proper throws (not screens) and missed on both. No other team wanted him up to wherever we picked him in the draft.
Maybe he plays against Lions and changes that - hopefully as it would be good to trade him for better value.