Packers Huddle

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:21

go pak go wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 10:28

When you don't have a lot of speed,

It's too bad that this misconception won't die.

It’s not a misconception.

Lazard has adequate speed. He doesn’t have “a lot of speed.”

You like to point out that he has similar speed to Adams. But Adams has insane separation skills, release skills, hands, and “jukiness”

In terms of speed, he’s not a Geronimo Alison liability, but it certainly isn’t an asset.

A Rodgers will probably be our #2 receiver, went with Stokes today, Rodgers for sure tomorrow, a slot receiver from the Moon would have been our #2 last year.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:21

go pak go wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 10:28

When you don't have a lot of speed,

It's too bad that this misconception won't die.

Well when ya compare him to Davante, MVS and Amari he is the most lacking of that group.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:30

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:21

go pak go wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 10:28

When you don't have a lot of speed,

It's too bad that this misconception won't die.

It’s not a misconception.

Lazard has adequate speed. He doesn’t have “a lot of speed.”

You like to point out that he has similar speed to Adams. But Adams has insane separation skills, release skills, hands, and “jukiness”

In terms of speed, he’s not a Geronimo Alison liability, but it certainly isn’t an asset.

It is a misconception. He ran a 4.56 at 227 points at the NFL combine. 2 years ago he dropped 15ish pounds to get faster. This is a guy that caught up/kept pace with MVS on an MVS TD, 2 years ago. He is in the 4.4s, even if it is high 4.4s. That is more than adequate.

When one mentions that a guy, "doesn't have a lot of speed," it is pointing to a guy not being fast or that he needs to be good at other things because he lacks speed.

go pak go wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:30

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:21

go pak go wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 10:28

When you don't have a lot of speed,

It's too bad that this misconception won't die.

Well when ya compare him to Davante, MVS and Amari he is the most lacking of that group.

Adams - 4.56
Lazard - 4.56
Rodgers - 4.52 - Hand timed Pro Day
MVS - 4.37

Those are combine or Pro Day times. He is tied with Adams there. He dropped 15ish pounds and did get faster 2 years ago, which led to a breakout season. He was hampered by injury last year. There is no issue with Lazard's top end speed. It's not worth mentioning as if it is something he needs to overcome.

I found it! - https://youtu.be/gzk7JOuP7Uw?t=106

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:44

When one mentions that a guy, "doesn't have a lot of speed," it is pointing to a guy not being fast or that he needs to be good at other things because he lacks speed.

Yes. And that's exactly what a 4.56 is. Adams is good at the other things because he lacks top-end speed. And he's the best at them. And his speed is enough.

4.56 is "you need to be really good at route running and creating separation and/or catching contested balls, and have great hands. That's what that means. Lazard is fine at those things--better at some than others. And a plus blocker. But he is a person who needs to excel at the little things because his speed is only adequate. There's nothing controversial about that.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:53

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:44

When one mentions that a guy, "doesn't have a lot of speed," it is pointing to a guy not being fast or that he needs to be good at other things because he lacks speed.

Yes. And that's exactly what a 4.56 is. Adams is good at the other things because he lacks top-end speed. And he's the best at them. And his speed is enough.

4.56 is "you need to be really good at route running and creating separation and/or catching contested balls, and have great hands. That's what that means. Lazard is fine at those things--better at some than others. And a plus blocker. But he is a person who needs to excel at the little things because his speed is only adequate. There's nothing controversial about that.

He doesn't run a 4.56 any longer!!!!!! He is without a doubt faster than that now.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:47

go pak go wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:30

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:21

It's too bad that this misconception won't die.

Well when ya compare him to Davante, MVS and Amari he is the most lacking of that group.

Adams - 4.56
Lazard - 4.56
Rodgers - 4.52 - Hand timed Pro Day
MVS - 4.37

Those are combine or Pro Day times. He is tied with Adams there. He dropped 15ish pounds and did get faster 2 years ago, which led to a breakout season. He was hampered by injury last year. There is no issue with Lazard's top end speed. It's not worth mentioning as if it is something he needs to overcome.

Yeah. I just don't think 40 times for comparison sake makes a lot of sense here.

MVS is clearly a faster player.
Adams is clearly a faster, quicker, and shiftier player
Amari Rodgers has been noted that his Pro Day was not representative what he usually does which is in the 4.4's and his play speed based on the tape reflects that.

I'm not arguing or stating that Lazard is slow. I am more arguing that against his peers on the Packers, there are likely 3 players who are faster/quicker/whatever adjective you want to place there on the team than Lazard.

I am really, really bullish on Amari Rodgers.

go pak go wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:55

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:47

go pak go wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 11:30

Well when ya compare him to Davante, MVS and Amari he is the most lacking of that group.

Adams - 4.56
Lazard - 4.56
Rodgers - 4.52 - Hand timed Pro Day
MVS - 4.37

Those are combine or Pro Day times. He is tied with Adams there. He dropped 15ish pounds and did get faster 2 years ago, which led to a breakout season. He was hampered by injury last year. There is no issue with Lazard's top end speed. It's not worth mentioning as if it is something he needs to overcome.

Yeah. I just don't think 40 times for comparison sake makes a lot of sense here.

MVS is clearly a faster player.
Adams is clearly a faster, quicker, and shiftier player
Amari Rodgers has been noted that his Pro Day was not representative what he usually does which is in the 4.4's and his play speed based on the tape reflects that.

I'm not arguing or stating that Lazard is slow. I am more arguing that against his peers on the Packers, there are likely 3 players who are faster/quicker/whatever adjective you want to place there on the team than Lazard.

I am really, really bullish on Amari Rodgers.

MVS is clearly faster.
Adams is not faster. Quicker and shiftier for sure.
Rodgers, no idea, not enough evidence to say he is or isn't, right now, today. Lazard is faster today than his 40 time. Rodgers looks faster than his 40 time in college. Hard to compare.

Lazard's top speed is not something he needs to overcome with other attributes.

I guess I don't really care about top speed if your name isn't MVS for Packers players.

He certainly isn't a "tight end" subsitiute some like to claim. But I have him currently pegged at that #3/#4 spot. I think MVS is clearly ahead of him and I am really excited for Amari Rodgers.

go pak go wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 12:14

I guess I don't really care about top speed if your name isn't MVS for Packers players.

He certainly isn't a "tight end" subsitiute some like to claim. But I have him currently pegged at that #3/#4 spot. I think MVS is clearly ahead of him and I am really excited for Amari Rodgers.

And that is fine. I personally think he had an injury hampered year last year and will shine this season.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 12:18

go pak go wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 12:14

I guess I don't really care about top speed if your name isn't MVS for Packers players.

He certainly isn't a "tight end" subsitiute some like to claim. But I have him currently pegged at that #3/#4 spot. I think MVS is clearly ahead of him and I am really excited for Amari Rodgers.

And that is fine. I personally think he had an injury hampered year last year and will shine this season.

And I hope you are right but NOT at the expense of my boy MVS.

Snap count will definitely be a thing. The advantage for Lazard is he is a great dual threat both in terms of blocking and receiving threat. You can't keep that off the field.

I think we have a very, very good WR group.

What-What!

Yeah. After reading all the Lazard news today....sounds like he should have been voted weeks ago

NCF wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 09:48

Personally, I don't think Patrick is a lock for the starting line-up. He is on a contract that pays him as a swing IOL. He wasn't a preferred starter out of camp last season. I think RG is a wide open battle.

Yes.

I'm guessing if who the starter at RG is going to be was put to a vote, Runyan would win that vote.

It isn't just Runyan's name; he tested quite well, very close to Ted's ideal thresholds in both size and athleticism. Ted, until the last couple years, almost always took players with exceptionally good shuttle and 3 cone times, and targeting bigger players that could do it. Lang, Sitton, Colledge were some of the hits, but Ted OL picks almost always went on to play elsewhere if they couldn't cut it in GB (Breno,Tretter, few others whose names escape me). Runyan would have almost certainly have been a Ted target.

Though its time to start taking Royce Newman serious, he has rapidly been elevated up the depth chart here in minicamp/ota's.

APB wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 10:34

NCF wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 10:01

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 09:55

I am definitely into the bubbling competition between 23's expectations for Lazard and @go pak go's expectations for MVS.

Haven't even got to NCF's expectations for Funchess, yet... but I think a lot of it comes at the expense of Lazard's playing time.

So with all these guys coming into their own, coupled with Dillon and Jones being more involved in the passing game, we might as well bump Amari Rodgers off the list until we hit 40 or so...

Is Amari Rodgers a punt return guy?

If so, that raises his value quite a bit vs just offensive play time.

Deguara is another guy that will factor in snap distribution. Though its possible that Dillon will take some of that role away, MLF is going to want to have Dillon on the field as much as possible. Either way, there is a pretty heavy FB/H-B role in an MLF offense that was underutilized last year that will also poach snaps from the #3/#4 WR's.

Waldo wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 13:36

APB wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 10:34

NCF wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 10:01

Haven't even got to NCF's expectations for Funchess, yet... but I think a lot of it comes at the expense of Lazard's playing time.

So with all these guys coming into their own, coupled with Dillon and Jones being more involved in the passing game, we might as well bump Amari Rodgers off the list until we hit 40 or so...

Is Amari Rodgers a punt return guy?

If so, that raises his value quite a bit vs just offensive play time.

Yep and word was he was getting reps as the #1, yesterday.

Waldo wrote: ↑

09 Jun 2021 13:36

Is Amari Rodgers a punt return guy?

If so, that raises his value quite a bit vs just offensive play time.

He is, yes. Both in college and thus far in OTAs and such. He's been twice reported to be the first guy in the rotation at practices there.

Ok, nice, that will definitely tip me toward Rodgers pretty soon here.