Packers Huddle

NCF wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 13:26

Labrev wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 13:17

Just pretend we drafted Tonyan there and that Sternberger was some raw project UDFA who never put it together. What matters is our TE position is good now.

Absolutely, this. It's not like this is a common occurrence, either. Draft busts hurt because you usually don't have an answer at a position when you bust a pick. Here, we spent a 3rd and we're all good. I won't lose sleep over this one.

right on, I can't believe Guty is getting the 3rd degree here, he's brought in a lot of talent, and every GM misses on players, even if Stern would have been a hit Tonyan is better, so many late round or undrafted FA that are contributing, unless a player becomes a star or PB player some people consider them a miss, I didn't see Hank Blacks name mentioned, yet he was one of our best ST's players, Savage is headed to the PB, Jenkins is a very good OL, Alexander to, we have 3 rookies anchoring the interior of our OL, a little early to call out Guty for draft misses.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:44

go pak go wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:34

paco wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:30

Its all good. I understand the premise. We haven't done great. Seems we should stay out of the 3rd round altogether! But, I think Gutey has enough hits so far to make it ok. I'd like to analyze all other GM's over the same span and see where he sits compared to others. But I don't have the patience to go through all that.

Anyway, to go back on topic, I still hope we find a way to keep Jace. But I do think a couple of teams may claim him. Or he'll choose another practice squad to go to.

To me Gute's legacy is built on his 2019 draft picks (Gary and Savage) and 2020 picks (Love and Dillon). If even half of Gary, Savage, Dillon and Stokes rises to being a legit contributer/star on this 2021 Packers team, I would call Gute a success contingent on Love. If 3 or more turn into stars, I would call Gute a success depsite Love's outlook.

None of those players though have reached star mode yet. Savage is the closest. But has a ways to go.

So you expect nothing from 3-7 ever in the draft? I would like a few quality starters found in those rounds over time. Might have found it this draft with the guards.

I think we have plenty of production from 3-7 in our drafts. I think you have to include UDFA or UDFA equivalent too.

MVS, Lazard, Newman, Runyan, Hill, Barnes, Slayton.

I think that's pretty good for 3 - 7. Couple of starters in there. Others immediate role players.

No question though the 2018 draft after Jaire was pretty much garbage. And that is something that I would not have believed had you told me 3 years ago.

NCF wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 13:26

Labrev wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 13:17

Just pretend we drafted Tonyan there and that Sternberger was some raw project UDFA who never put it together. What matters is our TE position is good now.

Absolutely, this. It's not like this is a common occurrence, either. Draft busts hurt because you usually don't have an answer at a position when you bust a pick. Here, we spent a 3rd and we're all good. I won't lose sleep over this one.

This is the thought process that kept TT here longer than he should.

go pak go wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:34

paco wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:30

Drj820 wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:27

true. Viable was not the most accurate term.

Its all good. I understand the premise. We haven't done great. Seems we should stay out of the 3rd round altogether! But, I think Gutey has enough hits so far to make it ok. I'd like to analyze all other GM's over the same span and see where he sits compared to others. But I don't have the patience to go through all that.

Anyway, to go back on topic, I still hope we find a way to keep Jace. But I do think a couple of teams may claim him. Or he'll choose another practice squad to go to.

To me Gute's legacy is built on his 2019 draft picks (Gary and Savage) and 2020 picks (Love and Dillon). If even half of Gary, Savage, Dillon and Stokes rises to being a legit contributer/star on this 2021 Packers team, I would call Gute a success contingent on Love. If 3 or more turn into stars, I would call Gute a success depsite Love's outlook.

None of those players though have reached star mode yet. Savage is the closest. But has a ways to go.

Gute got nothing from his first draft except Alexander. If you want to argue MVS I would allow it as he’s a 5th round pick but he is not a very good player. All speed and no skill. His 2nd class I don’t even think is that good. Gary does very little warranting a 12th overall pick. He wasn’t the BPA and he wasn’t even the best at his position. Savage I feel like is just an average player. Which is fine you need those on your team but if you hit as rarely as Gutey has he needs to be better. Jenkins clearly is a great player. The rest of that class is not good enough. The next class we are barely getting anything out of. You’ve got Dillon and Deguara getting some snaps per game and JRJ is in there by way of injury.

We have not gotten enough from the draft.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 15:36

go pak go wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:34

paco wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:30

Its all good. I understand the premise. We haven't done great. Seems we should stay out of the 3rd round altogether! But, I think Gutey has enough hits so far to make it ok. I'd like to analyze all other GM's over the same span and see where he sits compared to others. But I don't have the patience to go through all that.

Anyway, to go back on topic, I still hope we find a way to keep Jace. But I do think a couple of teams may claim him. Or he'll choose another practice squad to go to.

To me Gute's legacy is built on his 2019 draft picks (Gary and Savage) and 2020 picks (Love and Dillon). If even half of Gary, Savage, Dillon and Stokes rises to being a legit contributer/star on this 2021 Packers team, I would call Gute a success contingent on Love. If 3 or more turn into stars, I would call Gute a success depsite Love's outlook.

None of those players though have reached star mode yet. Savage is the closest. But has a ways to go.

Gute got nothing from his first draft except Alexander. If you want to argue MVS I would allow it as he’s a 5th round pick but he is not a very good player. All speed and no skill. His 2nd class I don’t even think is that good. Gary does very little warranting a 12th overall pick. He wasn’t the BPA and he wasn’t even the best at his position. Savage I feel like is just an average player. Which is fine you need those on your team but if you hit as rarely as Gutey has he needs to be better. Jenkins clearly is a great player. The rest of that class is not good enough. The next class we are barely getting anything out of. You’ve got Dillon and Deguara getting some snaps per game and JRJ is in there by way of injury.

We have not gotten enough from the draft.

Yeah at this point there is no disagreement with your post.

Realist wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 13:13

Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 12:49

Whenever I see a talented guy like Sternberger flash, but never get consistent, I wonder if he has trouble learning the playbook.

When did he flash? Must have missed it.

The flashes were few and far between, but in the 2019 NFCCG, he had a TD on a scramble drill where he found the hole in the zone. A pretty nice play for a rookie, I thought.

I did not expect this, especially after Z went on IR and they would not have had to cut anyone to keep him.

I guess it is very good for Big Bob. He is now the only real TE on the roster if you define a TE as 6'4 or more, 240 pounds or more with the speed to beat a LB. Lewis can't outrun a LB anymore. The other 2 are fullbacks first. They do have a TE on the PS and maybe they like him better than Sternberger. I suppose that Lazard could play TE if Tonyan gets hurt. But it seems to me that if there was any doubt about Tonyan getting resigned, that doubt is gone now.

A bust is a bust. Sterny had the athletic makeup to be everything Tonyan is (maybe more), but he just never had it.

I thought the theory of drafting raw, athletic, receiving TE in the mid rounds to develop is super sound (colleges don't really produce fully NFL-ready TEs, anyways), but with Sterny, the development part never happened.

Doing a thread comparing GMs' draft performace around the league might be a good idea. I doubt there are any in the history of the league that come even close to meeting lupe's standards, but would be interesting to see how Gutey compares to other GMs in recent years. My gut feeling is he hasn't done bad, but not great either.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:27

paco wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:14

Drj820 wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:00

so currently, no.

Bradley doing well this year and has been a starter.
Summers is a fixture on ST, what else do you want for a 7th rounder?
Runyan, started last night, played really well and may start from here on out.
Scott, another ST fixture right now, and again 7th rounder.
Martin is solid already and playing a decent amount of snaps.

Maybe you meant another word other than viable, but I'd say all these guys easily meet that description and more.

true. Viable was not the most accurate term.

Agree. Not even sure how the word viable is applicable in terms of football. Because a pick makes the team is irrelevant to me. The names in this post are just guys. Gotta fill the roster. Gute is not good at drafting.

Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 16:14

Realist wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 13:13

Crazylegs Starks wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 12:49

Whenever I see a talented guy like Sternberger flash, but never get consistent, I wonder if he has trouble learning the playbook.

When did he flash? Must have missed it.

The flashes were few and far between, but in the 2019 NFCCG, he had a TD on a scramble drill where he found the hole in the zone. A pretty nice play for a rookie, I thought.

I remember that play. I thought it was more about Aaron extended the play. Could be wrong though.

I would say though that Gute isn't one of those guys that will keep his guys around way too long; he isn't bashful at all about cutting bait with guys that just couldn't cut it.

Also its asking a bit much that these classes be full of stars. I mean players usually aren't even starting to peak until they've been in the league 4 years (not a coincidence rookie contracts are structured the way they are), its that 2nd contract where you get your top production. Davante Adams was straight garbo until his 3rd year. Most DL don't do squat until their 3rd year. Practically the whole team when GB drafted Aaron was built of late bloomers (A. Green, A. Kampman, D. Driver, J.Walker, Corey Williams, Al Harris, etc...)

salmar80 wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 16:49

A bust is a bust. Sterny had the athletic makeup to be everything Tonyan is (maybe more), but he just never had it.

I thought the theory of drafting raw, athletic, receiving TE in the mid rounds to develop is super sound (colleges don't really produce fully NFL-ready TEs, anyways), but with Sterny, the development part never happened.

Doing a thread comparing GMs' draft performace around the league might be a good idea. I doubt there are any in the history of the league that come even close to meeting lupe's standards, but would be interesting to see how Gutey compares to other GMs in recent years. My gut feeling is he hasn't done bad, but not great either.

No more Bob Fleck's please. A wasted pick if there ever was one.

Realist wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 17:26

Drj820 wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:27

paco wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 14:14

Bradley doing well this year and has been a starter.
Summers is a fixture on ST, what else do you want for a 7th rounder?
Runyan, started last night, played really well and may start from here on out.
Scott, another ST fixture right now, and again 7th rounder.
Martin is solid already and playing a decent amount of snaps.

Maybe you meant another word other than viable, but I'd say all these guys easily meet that description and more.

true. Viable was not the most accurate term.

Agree. Not even sure how the word viable is applicable in terms of football. Because a pick makes the team is irrelevant to me. The names in this post are just guys. Gotta fill the roster. Gute is not good at drafting.

We don't know if Gute is good at drafting yet. We will likely have more ammo for the Aanswer after the 2021 season though to be able to make a more assertive assessment. And we will for sure know likely after the 22 and 23 season.

But right now it's just simply too early.

Waldo wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021 19:32

I would say though that Gute isn't one of those guys that will keep his guys around way too long; he isn't bashful at all about cutting bait with guys that just couldn't cut it.

Also its asking a bit much that these classes be full of stars. I mean players usually aren't even starting to peak until they've been in the league 4 years (not a coincidence rookie contracts are structured the way they are), its that 2nd contract where you get your top production. Davante Adams was straight garbo until his 3rd year. Most DL don't do squat until their 3rd year. Practically the whole team when GB drafted Aaron was built of late bloomers (A. Green, A. Kampman, D. Driver, J.Walker, Corey Williams, Al Harris, etc...)

I disagree on a lot of this. You should know by year 3 if you have a player or not. That should be their breakout season. Year 4 if they duplicate theyre worthy of a 2nd contract. It was evident year 3 as you said Adams was going to be a player. I still dont understand that year 2 how you sprain an ankle and forget how to catch. If you want to pat Gutey on the back for cutting bait early on bad players I guess youre just one of those fans. If you are cutting players early into their contract you have done a poor job. This should not be celebrated.

Im not asking for star players but you need to come away with starters. That first class is dreadful. The 2nd class is not very good either. Gary isnt producing enough in terms of stats or snaps as he is coming off the bench until now where hes in because injury. 3rd year we are getting nothing right now. Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, and Kylin Hill all examples of why you dont go RB early and on top of that they resign Jones. Dillon is just being wasted.

Then youve got the FA signings. Wilkerson and Graham were bums. Preston is not living up to is deal. I dont think Turner is either but Im alone in the camp that finds it unacceptable the amount of pressures he gives up yearly. Kirksey sucked. I am luke warm on Campbell. Kevin King resign was beyond stupid. 4 million for Lewis I believe was dumb as well. Thats 10 mil right there. Cut Lowry and youve got a good shot acquiring JJ Watt.

Ya, about that Turner dude...

Doesn’t matter, I didn’t like the signing 30 months ago, therefore it is bad and he is bad.



Looking at the crazy last few RT contracts handed out, whether dumb luck or planned that he is a better tackle than guard, but he should have gotten a much bigger contract.

I like Billy Turner. Nice Find. He was bad at guard and often needs help, but his versatility and availability makes him well worth his deal.

BF004 wrote: ↑

22 Sep 2021 07:20

Doesn’t matter, I didn’t like the signing 30 months ago, therefore it is bad and he is bad.



Looking at the crazy last few RT contracts handed out, whether dumb luck or planned that he is a better tackle than guard, but he should have gotten a much bigger contract.

He was absolutely awful his first season. Last year he was bad but better than the first year. This season so far as been his best year but he hasnt been tested either. The Saints put Cam Jordan inside and had Davenport on Jenkins. The Lions are a joke. This week will be the real test for me as he will face Armstead and Ford. He gets through this he will have turned a corner.

Dude absolutely got his ass whipped and was exposed in the NFCC.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

22 Sep 2021 07:55

BF004 wrote: ↑

22 Sep 2021 07:20

Doesn’t matter, I didn’t like the signing 30 months ago, therefore it is bad and he is bad.



Looking at the crazy last few RT contracts handed out, whether dumb luck or planned that he is a better tackle than guard, but he should have gotten a much bigger contract.

He was absolutely awful his first season. Last year he was bad but better than the first year. This season so far as been his best year but he hasnt been tested either. The Saints put Cam Jordan inside and had Davenport on Jenkins. The Lions are a joke. This week will be the real test for me as he will face Armstead and Ford. He gets through this he will have turned a corner.

Dude absolutely got his ass whipped and was exposed in the NFCC.

He was not bad last year, that is verifiably false, by several metrics, grades, coach comments, commentators, scouts, Twitter, this forum. Isn’t true just because you want it to be true. The fact that you just double and triple down on that false narrative really makes me question any credibility you’ve built up over the years.

And yes, he was not good at all at LT in the NCF Championship games. He is not a LT.

BF004 wrote: ↑

22 Sep 2021 08:12

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

22 Sep 2021 07:55

BF004 wrote: ↑

22 Sep 2021 07:20

Doesn’t matter, I didn’t like the signing 30 months ago, therefore it is bad and he is bad.



Looking at the crazy last few RT contracts handed out, whether dumb luck or planned that he is a better tackle than guard, but he should have gotten a much bigger contract.

He was absolutely awful his first season. Last year he was bad but better than the first year. This season so far as been his best year but he hasnt been tested either. The Saints put Cam Jordan inside and had Davenport on Jenkins. The Lions are a joke. This week will be the real test for me as he will face Armstead and Ford. He gets through this he will have turned a corner.

Dude absolutely got his ass whipped and was exposed in the NFCC.

He was not bad last year, that is verifiably false, by several metrics, grades, coach comments, commentators, scouts, Twitter, this forum. Isn’t true just because you want it to be true. The fact that you just double and triple down on that false narrative really makes me question any credibility you’ve built up over the years.

And yes, he was not good at all at LT in the NCF Championship games. He is not a LT.