Week 17 Games

[texas]

signal-2022-01-04-020112.jpeg (83.3 KiB) Viewed 328 times

[RingoCStarrQB]

The Browns are just refusing to run the ball a week after dominating us on the ground, and a week after Pittsburgh gave up 125 rushing to the Cheifs without CE-H and over 200 to the Titans the week prior.

Like, COME ON Browns. Don't be silly. It's Nick Chubb

This is why they are the Browns. They have a lot of talent but find more ways to screw up than anyone this side of Detroit.

[Drj820]

I thought the most Browns thing ever was them having no shot at winning and continuing to stay in the gun and throwing the ball, trying to rob Big Ben of his moment of getting that final kneel down. So happy Awful Baker threw that last Pick and Ben got his moment anyways. That was some poetic justice. I thought Ben going around the stadium high fiving fans was awesome. I was laughing that he never took his helmet off during his interview or anything.

I like Big Ben and think he is an all time great. I think he gets overlooked a bit due to Pitts lack of balance the last couple years and their lack of playoff success that last half decade or so..but overall...Ben has been a joy to watch.

[Scott4Pack]

signal-2022-01-04-020112.jpeg

Um, you are not really comparing these two. Right?

One of these people created hardship for his entire team and embarrassed the HC and GM. He also just walked off the field in a truly pitiful display of selfishness.

The other, after facing death of a family member, competed at a high level, still winning a bronze medal. She pulled out of some competition. But she discussed it with her coach and team before hand and had their full support. Even so, she competed before hand and all realized that she was not near top form. It was after giving her team a chance that she pulled out.

One is an narcissist and not a team player.

The other might've disappointed. But she competed as she could, asked her coach for wisdom, and they made their decision. Oh yeah, she still competed on floor exercise and won a medal.

So you're really comparing these two? These two are night and day. Neither perfect. But one was willing to submit to coaches and team during a hardship. The other?

[Pugger]

signal-2022-01-04-020112.jpeg

Football is the ultimate team sport. If memory serves Simone performed with her team (and they won silver?) but not in the individual events in Tokyo in 2020.

[YoHoChecko]

Um, you are not really comparing these two. Right?

One of these people created hardship for his entire team and embarrassed the HC and GM. He also just walked off the field in a truly pitiful display of selfishness.

The other, after facing death of a family member, competed at a high level, still winning a bronze medal. She pulled out of some competition. But she discussed it with her coach and team before hand and had their full support. Even so, she competed before hand and all realized that she was not near top form. It was after giving her team a chance that she pulled out.

One is an narcissist and not a team player.

The other might've disappointed. But she competed as she could, asked her coach for wisdom, and they made their decision. Oh yeah, she still competed on floor exercise and won a medal.

So you're really comparing these two? These two are night and day. Neither perfect. But one was willing to submit to coaches and team during a hardship. The other?

I like this post a lot and agree with it

But what I will say as a caveat is that the comparison could be that both are facing mental health challenges and both deserve some level of empathy in the desire to get their heads right after challenges. One could also attempt to make the point that gender dynamics in the US and sports culture give women more leeway to express their mental health challenges than men are granted in a culture of toughness, and that may have impacted their abilities to seek timely help or how they are able to express it.

I agree more with your post than with my own, but I think mine adds some nuance and worthwhile caveats to the conversation that I'd like to see, even if I lean away from them.

[Pckfn23]

signal-2022-01-04-020112.jpeg

Um, you are not really comparing these two. Right?

One of these people created hardship for his entire team and embarrassed the HC and GM. He also just walked off the field in a truly pitiful display of selfishness.

The other, after facing death of a family member, competed at a high level, still winning a bronze medal. She pulled out of some competition. But she discussed it with her coach and team before hand and had their full support. Even so, she competed before hand and all realized that she was not near top form. It was after giving her team a chance that she pulled out.

One is an narcissist and not a team player.

The other might've disappointed. But she competed as she could, asked her coach for wisdom, and they made their decision. Oh yeah, she still competed on floor exercise and won a medal.

So you're really comparing these two? These two are night and day. Neither perfect. But one was willing to submit to coaches and team during a hardship. The other?

Also the comparison was incorrect. Both were vilified to an extent, Brown being more so, obviously.

[Pugger]

I thought the most Browns thing ever was them having no shot at winning and continuing to stay in the gun and throwing the ball, trying to rob Big Ben of his moment of getting that final kneel down. So happy Awful Baker threw that last Pick and Ben got his moment anyways. That was some poetic justice. I thought Ben going around the stadium high fiving fans was awesome. I was laughing that he never took his helmet off during his interview or anything.

I like Big Ben and think he is an all time great. I think he gets overlooked a bit due to Pitts lack of balance the last couple years and their lack of playoff success that last half decade or so..but overall...Ben has been a joy to watch.

I didn't think the Browns throwing it from the gun in that situation was the wrong thing to do. I have no problem with it. They were still trying to win the game even if the odds were poor. What kind of message is that to his players if the Browns' coach didn't have Mayfield keep trying?

I'm not a big fan of Big Ben off the field. It was nice to see him emotional and giving fans high fives after the game
but I don't think I'd want him to find me all alone in a bathroom...

[texas]

signal-2022-01-04-020112.jpeg

Um, you are not really comparing these two. Right?

One of these people created hardship for his entire team and embarrassed the HC and GM. He also just walked off the field in a truly pitiful display of selfishness.

The other, after facing death of a family member, competed at a high level, still winning a bronze medal. She pulled out of some competition. But she discussed it with her coach and team before hand and had their full support. Even so, she competed before hand and all realized that she was not near top form. It was after giving her team a chance that she pulled out.

One is an narcissist and not a team player.

The other might've disappointed. But she competed as she could, asked her coach for wisdom, and they made their decision. Oh yeah, she still competed on floor exercise and won a medal.

So you're really comparing these two? These two are night and day. Neither perfect. But one was willing to submit to coaches and team during a hardship. The other?

Um, are you guys all making light of Antonio Brown's mental health issues?

The dude clearly has something wrong and needs help. Calling him a narcissist or selfish belittles the struggles he is going through.

[Yoop]

signal-2022-01-04-020112.jpeg

Um, you are not really comparing these two. Right?

One of these people created hardship for his entire team and embarrassed the HC and GM. He also just walked off the field in a truly pitiful display of selfishness.

The other, after facing death of a family member, competed at a high level, still winning a bronze medal. She pulled out of some competition. But she discussed it with her coach and team before hand and had their full support. Even so, she competed before hand and all realized that she was not near top form. It was after giving her team a chance that she pulled out.

One is an narcissist and not a team player.

The other might've disappointed. But she competed as she could, asked her coach for wisdom, and they made their decision. Oh yeah, she still competed on floor exercise and won a medal.

So you're really comparing these two? These two are night and day. Neither perfect. But one was willing to submit to coaches and team during a hardship. The other?

Um, are you guys all making light of Antonio Brown's mental health issues?

The dude clearly has something wrong and needs help. Calling him a narcissist or selfish belittles the struggles he is going through.

thing is the bad boy trying to be good, has been used by Brown for years, now it's changing to the sick boy needing to get well before he can be good, the point is that Brown has been told for a while now that he needs help, the way he acts is not acceptable, it's been up to him to accept help, ya can lead a horse to water, but ya can't get him to take a bath till he actually gets in the water.

I once took a guy to a alcohol rehab, after chatting with a couple therapists I headed home, only to have the guy pass me in a cab 3 miles away, AB does need help, but it's up to him to accept it.

[YoHoChecko]

The issue isn't about who is or isn't struggling with mental health issues.

It's who is holding that person accountable and ensuring they get the help they need. WR Brandon Marshall is the perfect example. He had a ton of behavioral issues, criminal stuff, I believe he was stabbed by his wife during a scary physical altercation.

He was working his way out of the league. But instead, he got diagnosed bipolar and received treatment, turned his career around, and was a "good egg" later on.

When someone is lashing out due to a mental health crisis, they still must be held accountable for those actions, and they must receive treatment. And an employer--especially a well-resourced employer like the NFL--has a role to play in that. If you want physical marvels like Brown to have successful careers and not to "embaraass the shield" there needs to be an action plan and accountability.

He needs to be receiving treatment (maybe therapy and likely also medication) as condition of his employment. He needs to be actively working on himself in order to also get the priviledge of maintaining his well-paid, high-visibility job.

Pointing out that two people are struggling with mental health issues is not the "so why do we treat them differently" silver bullet one may think it is. You are still accountable--as is the system in which you are functioning--to take corrective action. Antonio Brown has been allowed to demonstrate poor judgement and rash behavior for far too long without mandated treatment as a condition of his employment. Either that, or it's been kept quiet and the treatment isn't working, in which case it's time for him to exit the system he is in and focus solely on bettering and improving his condition before he can resume his life/lifestyle.

The league and players like Brown have the resources, and should be expected to handle themselves accordingly. This isn't like an indigent man on the street who needs help but has no place or way to get it. And this isn't simply a person "choosing not to play to protect their mental health." This is an ongoing breakdown that has been paired in recent years with multiple incidents of criminal activity for which the league placed him on an exempt list. Someone needs to create the accountability it takes to improve his situation, and anyone who seeks to employ him should have been doing so under the explicit condition that he was receiving treatment, not just making promises and trying hard in practice.

[texas]

Scott's post (which many of you liked), was pretty judgmental and condemning, to a greater degree than the explanation you just made. It did not make the arguments that your post did.

[Scott4Pack]

Um, you are not really comparing these two. Right?

One of these people created hardship for his entire team and embarrassed the HC and GM. He also just walked off the field in a truly pitiful display of selfishness.

The other, after facing death of a family member, competed at a high level, still winning a bronze medal. She pulled out of some competition. But she discussed it with her coach and team before hand and had their full support. Even so, she competed before hand and all realized that she was not near top form. It was after giving her team a chance that she pulled out.

One is an narcissist and not a team player.

The other might've disappointed. But she competed as she could, asked her coach for wisdom, and they made their decision. Oh yeah, she still competed on floor exercise and won a medal.

So you're really comparing these two? These two are night and day. Neither perfect. But one was willing to submit to coaches and team during a hardship. The other?

I like this post a lot and agree with it

But what I will say as a caveat is that the comparison could be that both are facing mental health challenges and both deserve some level of empathy in the desire to get their heads right after challenges. One could also attempt to make the point that gender dynamics in the US and sports culture give women more leeway to express their mental health challenges than men are granted in a culture of toughness, and that may have impacted their abilities to seek timely help or how they are able to express it.

I agree more with your post than with my own, but I think mine adds some nuance and worthwhile caveats to the conversation that I'd like to see, even if I lean away from them.

Yeah. Agreed.
But AB did the very public (as in couldn't be more public) blow up thing. And she did hers discreetly, or as discreetly as you can do by publicly withdrawing from the Olympics.

As much as my comments are critical of the athletes above, I like your sympathy to them. Even AB is deserving of some empathy. There isn't a person alive who hasn't messed up, some more than others. When people are confused, angry, hateful, and non-motivated, the best thing is for all the rest of us to afford some level of grace. The question then is, will the person step up and take a walk of faith to improve the situation and make amends?
:-)
I find myself being very critical of AB. That said, I hope I am reminded to pray for him. And if I personally knew him, how then would I reach out to him? We can't leave things with our own open criticisms of public figures, without acting in grace toward them.

[Scott4Pack]

Scott's post (which many of you liked), was pretty judgmental and condemning, to a greater degree than the explanation you just made. It did not make the arguments that your post did.

Hey Texas. Peace, man.
:-)

Was my post judgmental? As much as I made a decision about the situation, yup. Sure was. About you? Not in the least. I asked you if you were comparing those two? And then I gave a reasoned chat about comparing the athletes/persons, not about you. Did I condemn you? No. But if you feel like I did, then accept my apologies. Brother, if I want to condemn you, I'll just speak that to you in no uncertain terms. I'm not doing that. And I won't.

My post was about the two athletes that you mentioned. Again, I'm not pointing this at you. Looking at the two DIFFERENT circumstances and discussing those. Please, let's get on with football and sports and let go of the personal issues. (I speak broadly to the entire forum here.) This kind of stuff makes forums very difficult.

[Scott4Pack]

The issue isn't about who is or isn't struggling with mental health issues.

It's who is holding that person accountable and ensuring they get the help they need. WR Brandon Marshall is the perfect example. He had a ton of behavioral issues, criminal stuff, I believe he was stabbed by his wife during a scary physical altercation.

He was working his way out of the league. But instead, he got diagnosed bipolar and received treatment, turned his career around, and was a "good egg" later on.

When someone is lashing out due to a mental health crisis, they still must be held accountable for those actions, and they must receive treatment. And an employer--especially a well-resourced employer like the NFL--has a role to play in that. If you want physical marvels like Brown to have successful careers and not to "embaraass the shield" there needs to be an action plan and accountability.

He needs to be receiving treatment (maybe therapy and likely also medication) as condition of his employment. He needs to be actively working on himself in order to also get the priviledge of maintaining his well-paid, high-visibility job.

Pointing out that two people are struggling with mental health issues is not the "so why do we treat them differently" silver bullet one may think it is. You are still accountable--as is the system in which you are functioning--to take corrective action. Antonio Brown has been allowed to demonstrate poor judgement and rash behavior for far too long without mandated treatment as a condition of his employment. Either that, or it's been kept quiet and the treatment isn't working, in which case it's time for him to exit the system he is in and focus solely on bettering and improving his condition before he can resume his life/lifestyle.

The league and players like Brown have the resources, and should be expected to handle themselves accordingly. This isn't like an indigent man on the street who needs help but has no place or way to get it. And this isn't simply a person "choosing not to play to protect their mental health." This is an ongoing breakdown that has been paired in recent years with multiple incidents of criminal activity for which the league placed him on an exempt list. Someone needs to create the accountability it takes to improve his situation, and anyone who seeks to employ him should have been doing so under the explicit condition that he was receiving treatment, not just making promises and trying hard in practice.

And working in the NFL, a player is going to have more emotional support than most places in the world. The league and the teams offer so many choices to help players and coaches and staff with issues. That stuff is all there and publicly made known. The guys with the troubles need to do their part to admit an issue and ask for help before their careers and lives blow up.

[texas]

Scott's post (which many of you liked), was pretty judgmental and condemning, to a greater degree than the explanation you just made. It did not make the arguments that your post did.

Hey Texas. Peace, man.
:-)

Was my post judgmental? As much as I made a decision about the situation, yup. Sure was. About you? Not in the least. I asked you if you were comparing those two? And then I gave a reasoned chat about comparing the athletes/persons, not about you. Did I condemn you? No. But if you feel like I did, then accept my apologies. Brother, if I want to condemn you, I'll just speak that to you in no uncertain terms. I'm not doing that. And I won't.

My post was about the two athletes that you mentioned. Again, I'm not pointing this at you. Looking at the two DIFFERENT circumstances and discussing those. Please, let's get on with football and sports and let go of the personal issues. (I speak broadly to the entire forum here.) This kind of stuff makes forums very difficult.

Fair enough. Go Pack Go.

[APB]

The Browns opted to play D'Ernest Johnson over Nick Chubb on 55% of the offensive plays during MNF. They called for a Baker Mayfield pass play 49 times (38 pass attempts, 9 sacks, 2 scrambles for gain) on a night they were largely in the game up until late in the 4th quarter. Chubb touched the ball 12 times, rushing for 58 yards.

I get that Johnson is their preferred passing down back but why were they passing so much in the first place?? Mayfield only completed 16 of those 38 attempts for 185 yds with two INTs so it's not like they were having great success throwing it. And Chubb ain't a bad receiver out of the backfield, either.

If I'm a Browns reporter I'm asking HC Kevin Stefanski some direct questions. Why would he continue to expose his already known to be maimed QB to that pass rushing onslaught? Why leave your most talented offensive player chilling on the bench? Against your division rival you can knock out of the playoffs on national television?

Mayfield is now scheduled to have surgery on his injured shoulder and is done for the year. That he played out much of the season with that injury deserves it's own line of direct questioning. My guess is Chubb now shoulders the bulk of work in their meaningless week 18 game before going home for the off-season. Man, it must completely suck being a Browns fan.

[Scott4Pack]

The Browns opted to play D'Ernest Johnson over Nick Chubb on 55% of the offensive plays during MNF. They called for a Baker Mayfield pass play 49 times (38 pass attempts, 9 sacks, 2 scrambles for gain) on a night they were largely in the game up until late in the 4th quarter. Chubb touched the ball 12 times, rushing for 58 yards.

I get that Johnson is their preferred passing down back but why were they passing so much in the first place?? Mayfield only completed 16 of those 38 attempts for 185 yds with two INTs so it's not like they were having great success throwing it. And Chubb ain't a bad receiver out of the backfield, either.

If I'm a Browns reporter I'm asking HC Kevin Stefanski some direct questions. Why would he continue to expose his already known to be maimed QB to that pass rushing onslaught? Why leave your most talented offensive player chilling on the bench? Against your division rival you can knock out of the playoffs on national television?

Mayfield is now scheduled to have surgery on his injured shoulder and is done for the year. That he played out much of the season with that injury deserves it's own line of direct questioning. My guess is Chubb now shoulders the bulk of work in their meaningless week 18 game before going home for the off-season. Man, it must completely suck being a Browns fan.

It's almost like asking why the Green Bay Packers and MLF don't make enough commitment to the run. But they have Aaron MVP Rodgers in the fold, so they should naturally rely more on the run.
<JUST KIDDING>
By being sarcastic here, I'm trying to show how little sense it made for the Browns... It really isn't like Mayfield is THE guy who is going to drive that offense. Sure they obviously wanted to pass a decent amount. But Chubb is really a tackler-destroying RB. He really needs at least 15-20 touches/game.

Maybe they thought that after the Packer game that Mayfield would stop forcing so many passes? Nah.

[YoHoChecko]

The Mannings were CRUSHING the idea that Chubb was on the sidelines so much for most of the game during their manningcast. It was about the only thing they mentioned about the game, honestly.

[APB]

The Mannings were CRUSHING the idea that Chubb was on the sidelines so much for most of the game during their manningcast. It was about the only thing they mentioned about the game, honestly.

Yeah, I was watching the ManningCast, as well.

I liked it when they first started doing these broadcasts and focusing on game action it but it seems they've now shifted from commenting and doing gameplay analysis to a focus on maximizing their guest's airtime and asking awkward questions. The only reason I didn't switch to the real broadcast this past week is because I knew Rodgers was coming on otherwise I'd have switched due to a complete lack of entertainment value.