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Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 14:06
by Pugger
Rodgers? Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 14:15
by Yoop
go pak go wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 14:01
Yoop wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 13:58
true he didn't play up to his ability, but there are valid reason why, course no one wants to hear any of that.
You can use this phrase for every player on the 53 man roster and every coach on the sideline.
It's football. It is the sport with the most players, most personnel and most variables. Of course there can always be "other things"
The interesting part is how people at arriving at the final "who to blame spot"
Normally that spot is reserved for the lowest paid, lowest impacted players on the team. Which I find weird.
we ran out of offensive impact players against the 49ers, the year prior the best receivers we had couldn't hold onto the ball.
again I'll keep harping on this because I know I'am right, when facing a team with great pass rush ability the QB has to be able to get rid of the ball quicker then the pressure gets to him, so when ya only have one receiver that can get open fast enough then you are at a disadvantage, and your offense will struggle.
this is common knowledge every where except right here, you act as though I'am just making this stuff up, I'am not, when you see a QB target one receiver as much as Rodgers targets Adams, it's because the others don't get open quick or on schedule with the route tree progressions, this isn't some big secret, when Cobb was/is healthy Rodgers feeds him the ball, it was the same with Nelson, or Jones or back when we had Jennings, guys like Lazard, MVS, Brown lack the quicks to do so, we should have gotten another top tier receiver to pair with Adams years ago.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 14:30
by Foosball
British wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 12:08
Foosball wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 11:49
To me, it’s mortgaging the future for a ship that’s already passed.
So yes I’ll enjoy the next few years knowing the Packers will more than likely win the NFC north or at least get the wild card. Rodgers will get his stats. Then I’ll watch them fizzle in the playoffs…mainly due to Rodgers.
All the while knowing in the back of my mind that they’re headed straight to cap hell.
Cap hell for one year.
We've had 30 years of HoF QB play. We can survive a single year dead cap hit of 45m on a cap of 300m.
I can understand that if you think Rodgers is past it and now some kind of choke artist you'll probably hate it. My view is that the playoffs are a bit of a lottery - all you can do is get there and hope to get hot for a couple of games. The Rams weren't the best team this year, a couple of bounces the other way and they don't even make the post season.
Rodgers is still the back to back MVP and paired with MLF they give us a punchers chance. That's all you can ask for in the NFL.
You’re leaving out the likelihood of additional dead money from restructured contracts of other players to make all this happen. And the draft picks and cap capital to sign free agents if the FO had gone in a different direction.
If Rodgers top priority was winning a SB, he would have signed for less money allowing the FO to build a better team around
Him. Didn’t happen did it.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 14:30
by packman114
Yoop wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 14:15
go pak go wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 14:01
Yoop wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 13:58
true he didn't play up to his ability, but there are valid reason why, course no one wants to hear any of that.
You can use this phrase for every player on the 53 man roster and every coach on the sideline.
It's football. It is the sport with the most players, most personnel and most variables. Of course there can always be "other things"
The interesting part is how people at arriving at the final "who to blame spot"
Normally that spot is reserved for the lowest paid, lowest impacted players on the team. Which I find weird.
we ran out of offensive impact players against the 49ers, the year prior the best receivers we had couldn't hold onto the ball.
again I'll keep harping on this because I know I'am right, when facing a team with great pass rush ability the QB has to be able to get rid of the ball quicker then the pressure gets to him, so when ya only have one receiver that can get open fast enough then you are at a disadvantage, and your offense will struggle.
this is common knowledge every where except right here, you act as though I'am just making this stuff up, I'am not, when you see a QB target one receiver as much as Rodgers targets Adams, it's because the others don't get open quick or on schedule with the route tree progressions, this isn't some big secret, when Cobb was/is healthy Rodgers feeds him the ball, it was the same with Nelson, or Jones or back when we had Jennings, guys like Lazard, MVS, Brown lack the quicks to do so, we should have gotten another top tier receiver to pair with Adams years ago.
By your logic, Yoop, then KC has terrible receivers too because Tampa Bay shut them down in the Super Bowl last year. Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce aren't enough, they need at least 4 good receivers when your OLine can't stop the pass rush. It's not plausible at all that injuries to our OLine last year and this year caused us to lose, more than the lack of receivers? Oh and MVS was out as well, and Dillon got hurt, like Jones did last year. Rodgers beat the 49ers earlier in the year with unbelievable plays to Adams, why wasn't that possible in the championship game? Rodgers play wasn't better in the first meeting against the Niners, it was the WRs who played better and got open on schedule unlike the championship game?
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 14:32
by YoHoChecko
I'm sorry but the title of the thread clearly states 2022, so maybe let's not rehash all the Reasons Why We Lost (tm) again? Please? This is literally why I vacated the board for 2 months.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 14:37
by YoHoChecko
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 14:55
by BF004
I have been adamant since the Love pick that we made a QB pick about 2 years too early.
And definitely coming to fruition here.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 14:56
by Drj820
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 14:32
I'm sorry but the title of the thread clearly states 2022, so maybe let's not rehash all the Reasons Why We Lost (tm) again? Please? This is literally why I vacated the board for 2 months.
your take is fair but i think these things are coming up again because our current plan is to basically trot the same crew out again and try it over. People are understanding of that approach, but a little spooked by it.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 15:18
by Yoop
Drj820 wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 14:56
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 14:32
I'm sorry but the title of the thread clearly states 2022, so maybe let's not rehash all the Reasons Why We Lost (tm) again? Please? This is literally why I vacated the board for 2 months.
your take is fair but i think these things are coming up again because our current plan is to basically trot the same crew out again and try it over. People are understanding of that approach, but a little spooked by it.
NO, there coming up because people continue to blame Rodgers for not carrying this team as he has had to for ages, and complaining because we didn't trade him and try and win with Love, I guess that seems less spooky
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 15:46
by Labrev
Yoop wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 12:23
over all Rodgers has played well in all the PO games,
Rodgers has by-and-large *not* played well in our playoff losses, no.
Hilariously, one of the only exceptions (playoff loss where Rodgers actually played well) was that Arizona game, which is one of the best games of Rodgers's entire career -- quite possibly THE best game of his career -- but also one of the worst WR groups he ever had to play with -- quite possibly THE worst receivers he ever had to play a game with.
Yet another example that Rodgers's QB play has almost nothing to do with receivers being good enough or not. They were not good enough, but he balled out. Every other playoff lost, they were more than good enough, but Rodgers was not.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 15:50
by Labrev
Pugger wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 14:06
Rodgers? Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Of course not, but it is a reasonably accurate predictor.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 15:55
by Drj820
So we brought the gang back and ran it back in 2021 and it did not get us closer to a championship. Were we close enough to justify rinsing and repeating for 2022? Im fine with bringing Rodgers back, certainly Rasul and Campbell....I do see some potential to try new things with regards to cutting Cobb, Crosby, and even Lewis....and trading D Adams.
If we cut those three, we save 18 million I think.
If we cut Adams, I guess we some premium picks and even more room to sign maybe 2 WRs.
For instance...what would be better...1 adams and all scrubs, or no adams and maybe a Landry and Robinson? Not that they would come, but i think without paying Adams we could afford to field a competent crew with more depth.
I do think Rodgers being back helps in 2022 the most, Im just not sure now that we have paid him 150m that we should be forced to bring back all his buddies too. I think there is room to move on from old or even quality, and try a few new things.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 17:14
by British
Foosball wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 14:30
British wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 12:08
Foosball wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 11:49
To me, it’s mortgaging the future for a ship that’s already passed.
So yes I’ll enjoy the next few years knowing the Packers will more than likely win the NFC north or at least get the wild card. Rodgers will get his stats. Then I’ll watch them fizzle in the playoffs…mainly due to Rodgers.
All the while knowing in the back of my mind that they’re headed straight to cap hell.
Cap hell for one year.
We've had 30 years of HoF QB play. We can survive a single year dead cap hit of 45m on a cap of 300m.
I can understand that if you think Rodgers is past it and now some kind of choke artist you'll probably hate it. My view is that the playoffs are a bit of a lottery - all you can do is get there and hope to get hot for a couple of games. The Rams weren't the best team this year, a couple of bounces the other way and they don't even make the post season.
Rodgers is still the back to back MVP and paired with MLF they give us a punchers chance. That's all you can ask for in the NFL.
You’re leaving out the likelihood of additional dead money from restructured contracts of other players to make all this happen. And the draft picks and cap capital to sign free agents if the FO had gone in a different direction.
If Rodgers top priority was winning a SB, he would have signed for less money allowing the FO to build a better team around
Him. Didn’t happen did it.
Rodgers has never just been about winning a Superbowl. He, and nearly every other NFL player, also wants to be paid the market rate. As balancing acts go, I'm very happy with this deal. Yes, Brady is playing for cheaper, I guess it helps when you're wife is the real earner in the family.
Sure, there will likely be more dead cap in '25. Pile it on I say. I'd rather a full tank job and a top 5 pick anyway. None of this Viking-esque purgatory.
Like the Rams that went all in for a ring over the past few years, the Packers are doing the same and looking to max the cap to get a ring. Maybe it doesn't work out but I'm glad they're going for it.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 17:17
by Foosball
I’m not anti Aaron Rodgers. I’d be really happy he is back if it weren’t for the salary cap ramifications combined with what the Packers could have received in trade compensation.
As for how Rodgers has played in the last 2 Championship games, he had numerous 3 and outs in both contests in the 2nd half during critical parts of the games. That is just fact not anti-Rodgers.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 17:21
by British
Drj820 wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 15:55
So we brought the gang back and ran it back in 2021 and it did not get us closer to a championship. Were we close enough to justify rinsing and repeating for 2022? Im fine with bringing Rodgers back, certainly Rasul and Campbell....I do see some potential to try new things with regards to cutting Cobb, Crosby, and even Lewis....and trading D Adams.
If we cut those three, we save 18 million I think.
If we cut Adams, I guess we some premium picks and even more room to sign maybe 2 WRs.
For instance...what would be better...1 adams and all scrubs, or no adams and maybe a Landry and Robinson? Not that they would come, but i think without paying Adams we could afford to field a competent crew with more depth.
I do think Rodgers being back helps in 2022 the most, Im just not sure now that we have paid him 150m that we should be forced to bring back all his buddies too. I think there is room to move on from old or even quality, and try a few new things.
I can understand your frustration at the results in recent years, but I'm not sure the "doing the same thing and expecting different results = insanity" like works.
There are so many different variables that no one year is the same as the next. The roster will be different, we'll have a whole new draft class, young players will develop, coaches will change and bring new ideas, we'll have a new special teams coach and unit. That alone would have seen us progress to the NFC title game this year.
The margins are so small, and often quite random, and the changes will be multiple. For starters getting our injury luck to regress back to the norm would give us a huge boost on '21.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 17:24
by Drj820
British wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 17:21
Drj820 wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 15:55
So we brought the gang back and ran it back in 2021 and it did not get us closer to a championship. Were we close enough to justify rinsing and repeating for 2022? Im fine with bringing Rodgers back, certainly Rasul and Campbell....I do see some potential to try new things with regards to cutting Cobb, Crosby, and even Lewis....and trading D Adams.
If we cut those three, we save 18 million I think.
If we cut Adams, I guess we some premium picks and even more room to sign maybe 2 WRs.
For instance...what would be better...1 adams and all scrubs, or no adams and maybe a Landry and Robinson? Not that they would come, but i think without paying Adams we could afford to field a competent crew with more depth.
I do think Rodgers being back helps in 2022 the most, Im just not sure now that we have paid him 150m that we should be forced to bring back all his buddies too. I think there is room to move on from old or even quality, and try a few new things.
I can understand your frustration at the results in recent years, but I'm not sure the "doing the same thing and expecting different results = insanity" like works.
There are so many different variables that no one year is the same as the next. The roster will be different, we'll have a whole new draft class, young players will develop, coaches will change and bring new ideas, we'll have a new special teams coach and unit. That alone would have seen us progress to the NFC title game this year.
The margins are so small, and often quite random, and the changes will be multiple. For starters getting our injury luck to regress back to the norm would give us a huge boost on '21.
I dont disagree with you, and I am overall pretty excited about our 2022 outlook at this point...i would just say that the O has done the same thing now for a LONG time in the playoffs. Trying a new approach may be the wisest thing.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 17:57
by British
Foosball wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 17:17
I’m not anti Aaron Rodgers. I’d be really happy he is back if it weren’t for the salary cap ramifications combined with what the Packers could have received in trade compensation.
As for how Rodgers has played in the last 2 Championship games, he had numerous 3 and outs in both contests in the 2nd half during critical parts of the games. That is just fact not anti-Rodgers.
I agree with you on this. I was looking forward to a whole changed mindset, with a rebuild around Love and a couple of years without crushing playoff defeats and all the pressure that comes with going all in.
And I agree that Rodgers has under performed, along with many other coaches and players, in the last two defeats.
But a) I have to trust Gute knows best about Love's development and b) in terms of a strategy for winning a SB in the next 5 years, I reckon 3 more "all ins" with Rodgers and 2 years rebuilding is probably a better bet than the mystery of a rebuild now and maybe always wondering whether we could have made the extra step in just one of these coming 3 years.
But no doubt, there's a part of me that looks forward to the pressure free future of a rebuild and leaving the playoff heartbreak for others to endure.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 18:03
by go pak go
I don't have any pressure anymore.
I had expectations and hope for 2020 and 2021.
I don't for 2022. I have seen the movie. Maybe that will make the season more loose and fun.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 18:06
by BF004
go pak go wrote: ↑15 Mar 2022 18:03
I don't have any pressure anymore.
I had expectations and hope for 2020 and 2021.
I don't for 2022. I have seen the movie. Maybe that will make the season more loose and fun.
I mean even best of odds going into a season, a team can maybe have like a 10% chance of winning the Super Bowl at best. I can't think of a team that should have any better odds than us. The AFC getting so stacked and gunna be really tough for anyone from the AFC West like the Chiefs to get any type of homefield advantage in that division. Pretty much us, Rams and Bucs in the NFC that stand out, they are in very similar cap situations as us and likely to lose some guys.
It isn't any sort of matter of fact thing either way.
Just enjoy the games and root for the victory.
Re: Aaron Rodgers V2022
Posted: 15 Mar 2022 19:49
by Foosball
If the Packers somehow win the SB in the next few years I’ll admit I was wrong and the FO (and most of you) were right. It would be more than worth it.
Go Pack!
