Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 06 Apr 2022 10:13
Just get one person to cash in their packer stock.
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Packers Mocks Around the Media
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Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 06 Apr 2022 11:40
Bofe Moye, meh. 'Sounds like a fine prospect, but either of our 1st's on EDGE-3 (even if future EDGE-2/starter) is not justifiable value, IMO.
We have our ascending young elite/blue, and we have our high-end #2. Some quality rotational pieces definitely should be added, but in this league, it's too easy to make EDGE rushers useless to make two star-players at the position worthwhile (and, for that matter, worth the money if the player works out).
The position is just not what it used to be. Most QBs are not Aaron Rodgers, most QBs are more than willing to check passes down to avoid taking hits/sacks even at the expense of the big play, and offenses have increasingly emphasized getting the ball out more quickly than the EDGE rush can get home. Also, lots of teams now invest in RTs almost like LTs. The league has over-corrected for Von Miller/Demarcus Ware-type duos.
I imagine this coming from me an outspoken Gary pick proponent might ruffle some feathers, but I don't view that situation as analogous to now. It's worth a 1st if you don't have a dominant, elite talent at the position; it's still an impact position. We do, though. And it's not like CB where being *stacked* makes sense because EDGE can pretty easily be schemed out, in a way that positions like CB cannot.
We have our ascending young elite/blue, and we have our high-end #2. Some quality rotational pieces definitely should be added, but in this league, it's too easy to make EDGE rushers useless to make two star-players at the position worthwhile (and, for that matter, worth the money if the player works out).
The position is just not what it used to be. Most QBs are not Aaron Rodgers, most QBs are more than willing to check passes down to avoid taking hits/sacks even at the expense of the big play, and offenses have increasingly emphasized getting the ball out more quickly than the EDGE rush can get home. Also, lots of teams now invest in RTs almost like LTs. The league has over-corrected for Von Miller/Demarcus Ware-type duos.
I imagine this coming from me an outspoken Gary pick proponent might ruffle some feathers, but I don't view that situation as analogous to now. It's worth a 1st if you don't have a dominant, elite talent at the position; it's still an impact position. We do, though. And it's not like CB where being *stacked* makes sense because EDGE can pretty easily be schemed out, in a way that positions like CB cannot.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 06 Apr 2022 11:47
We have an edge turning 30 this year on a year to year contract and literally no one else other than Gary and you don’t think a first round pick on an edge isnt justified??
Especially given the success rate of day 2+ edges, you either get one early or your not likely to get a good one.
Especially given the success rate of day 2+ edges, you either get one early or your not likely to get a good one.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 06 Apr 2022 11:56
Everyone thinks the Packers are going wr. Hopefully teams jump ahead of us and someone falls to us at another position. Not a fan of Gute but I don't think he will draft for need in the first unless he loves a wr. Draft can't come soon enough.BF004 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2022 11:47We have an edge turning 30 this year on a year to year contract and literally no one else other than Gary and you don’t think a first round pick on an edge isnt justified??
Especially given the success rate of day 2+ edges, you either get one early or your not likely to get a good one.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 06 Apr 2022 12:13
Well, considering how I already explained how neither one of those points is compelling, your performative shocked disbelief kind of loses something.
If that's all the argument for it comes down to, then I'm even more convinced of my position.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 07 Apr 2022 06:55
Pete Schrager has us picking Treylon Burks at 22 and Devonta Wyatt at 28. I could definitely live with that.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 07 Apr 2022 08:13
P Smith could be gone after this season, even if he stays he and Gary have to have a few plays off here and there to stay fresh.Labrev wrote: ↑06 Apr 2022 11:40Bofe Moye, meh. 'Sounds like a fine prospect, but either of our 1st's on EDGE-3 (even if future EDGE-2/starter) is not justifiable value, IMO.
We have our ascending young elite/blue, and we have our high-end #2. Some quality rotational pieces definitely should be added, but in this league, it's too easy to make EDGE rushers useless to make two star-players at the position worthwhile (and, for that matter, worth the money if the player works out).
The position is just not what it used to be. Most QBs are not Aaron Rodgers, most QBs are more than willing to check passes down to avoid taking hits/sacks even at the expense of the big play, and offenses have increasingly emphasized getting the ball out more quickly than the EDGE rush can get home. Also, lots of teams now invest in RTs almost like LTs. The league has over-corrected for Von Miller/Demarcus Ware-type duos.
I imagine this coming from me an outspoken Gary pick proponent might ruffle some feathers, but I don't view that situation as analogous to now. It's worth a 1st if you don't have a dominant, elite talent at the position; it's still an impact position. We do, though. And it's not like CB where being *stacked* makes sense because EDGE can pretty easily be schemed out, in a way that positions like CB cannot.
and offenses now use far more up tempo, get the ball out quick schemes, times change, now unless you get pressure fast these new offenses will destroy a defense, you might be able to scheme out one OLB, but not the other, or a pass rush supreme DT, Pass rush now is more important then coverage
For years the win rate for pass rush hovered around 40%, the last 3 to 4 years teams are bumping 50% success, that is a concerted effort to combat up tempo, we'd be wise to follow suit and take a edge rusher from this loaded class of edge rushers, we could get a good one in either of the first two rounds.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 07 Apr 2022 08:18
This one is pretty outside the box, although it does have the Packers double-dipping at WR. Skyy Moore and Travis Jones as 1st-rounders and probably the only mock I have seen with a 1st-round RB going.
https://underdognetwork.com/football/20 ... -norris-v1
https://underdognetwork.com/football/20 ... -norris-v1
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 07 Apr 2022 09:05
Burks and Watson would be good picks for us, between the two could replace the production lost with Adams.NCF wrote: ↑07 Apr 2022 08:18This one is pretty outside the box, although it does have the Packers double-dipping at WR. Skyy Moore and Travis Jones as 1st-rounders and probably the only mock I have seen with a 1st-round RB going.
https://underdognetwork.com/football/20 ... -norris-v1
not shocked at all that Skyy is mocked in the first, just not top 20, doubt he last long in round two though if not taken in the first, some say he's to small, but he's about the size of Cobb only faster, and up tempo increases the need for quality slot receivers, and he flourish in that roll.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 07 Apr 2022 09:12
I concur, which is exactly why I much rather spend a Round 1 pick on a DT that can pass-rush from the middle. I would even rather have an ILB who has a talent for getting pressure and/or sacks when blitzing.
That's the other thing annoying about the Packer obsession with edge-rush guys, is that it leads to neglecting interior positions that are arguably a lot more valuable overall, so the emphasis on pass-rush should start there and then work its way out.
A straight line is a way more efficient path to the QB than around the OT (and a more disruptive one, as interior rush forces the QB to move and throws off the passing game's timing and takes the QB's eyes off the field for a bit, whereas neither of those are true to the same degree with edge rush).
It's definitely a good idea to have some guys to develop and/or takeover from Preston Smith in a few years, but that's not something that warrants a 1st-rounder. Smith is still an effective, high-end #2 guy, and his game is not based on pure speed but length, technique, and power. I think his game will age well and we can expect him to be effective for a while yet.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 07 Apr 2022 09:12
Big disagree. Given "up tempo, get the ball out quick schemes" coverage becomes more important. It used to be the case that you would field a strong pass-rush to mask a weak secondary, leading to lots of errant throws and PBUs/INTs, but now the opposite is true, you field a strong secondary to make the QB hold the ball longer, leading to them taking sacks or other broken plays.Pass rush now is more important then coverage
The Browns drafted Myles Garrett #1 overall, and had to spend #4 overall on a CB (Denzel Ward) the next year because Garrett's talent was going completely to waste since opposing teams could reliably pass the ball on them quickly. The Browns mgmt very explicitly said that that was their reason for drafting Ward. If it were still true that pass-rush masks coverage weakness, an elite edge-rusher like Garrett should have prevented them from needing to invest a high pick into the secondary.
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On that note, a big part of the reason why you give Rasul Douglas the contract we just did is so you DON'T have to put a lot of resources into edge-rush guys. If the QB has nowhere to throw the ball for a full 4 or more seconds, they will be under heavy pressure and/or sacked even by an average pass-rush unit in this league.
A 1st-round EDGE will be due for a long-term extension only a year after Stokes is due for the same. By then, we would probably have Jaire and Gary on big contracts.
So are we expecting to have loads of money invested in CB and EDGE positions, two of the most expensive positions to pony up for quality starters?
That does not seem like very wise long-term planning to me.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 07 Apr 2022 09:23
[mention]Labrev[/mention] I get what you are saying and agree with parts of it. My issue with EDGE rushers is you need more than 2. Currently, we have 2, long-term we have 1, and we have absolutely no developmental talent behind either of them. I am not saying we need to use a 1st-round pick, but we need a higher end prospect to eventually replace Preston and in the shorter-term, we need a more naturally talented player so that Galeai and Garvin never have to see the field again.
I am with you 100% on the interior rushers, too. I would be glad to get one of those guys. I do prefer the Kenny Clark clone (obviously) but I mean that type versus a pure penetrator that is going to be a liability in the run game. This defense, much like the version before it, wants to sit in nickel and be able to hold up equally well against the run and pass. The problem in this Draft is there seem to be more EDGE guys available than high-end interior guys. That is not the case every Draft, but I think it is more times than not. That is why TT always said take the big guy because there is only so many of them on Earth. Even with Reed signing, I think we are a prospect short for a really solid rotation in both the short and long-term.
Starting to ramble and multi-task, but I think I want another high end guy to impact the QB in this class, either IDL or EDGE. Doesn't have to be Round 1, but someone you feel really good about because although our starters are very high end, we do have a lot of question marks when it comes to depth and longer term view.
I am with you 100% on the interior rushers, too. I would be glad to get one of those guys. I do prefer the Kenny Clark clone (obviously) but I mean that type versus a pure penetrator that is going to be a liability in the run game. This defense, much like the version before it, wants to sit in nickel and be able to hold up equally well against the run and pass. The problem in this Draft is there seem to be more EDGE guys available than high-end interior guys. That is not the case every Draft, but I think it is more times than not. That is why TT always said take the big guy because there is only so many of them on Earth. Even with Reed signing, I think we are a prospect short for a really solid rotation in both the short and long-term.
Starting to ramble and multi-task, but I think I want another high end guy to impact the QB in this class, either IDL or EDGE. Doesn't have to be Round 1, but someone you feel really good about because although our starters are very high end, we do have a lot of question marks when it comes to depth and longer term view.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 07 Apr 2022 09:37
you probably type 150 words a minute, congrats on thatLabrev wrote: ↑07 Apr 2022 09:12I concur, which is exactly why I much rather spend a Round 1 pick on a DT that can pass-rush from the middle. I would even rather have an ILB who has a talent for getting pressure and/or sacks when blitzing.
That's the other thing annoying about the Packer obsession with edge-rush guys, is that it leads to neglecting interior positions that are arguably a lot more valuable overall, so the emphasis on pass-rush should start there and then work its way out.
A straight line is a way more efficient path to the QB than around the OT (and a more disruptive one, as interior rush forces the QB to move and throws off the passing game's timing and takes the QB's eyes off the field for a bit, whereas neither of those are true to the same degree with edge rush).
It's definitely a good idea to have some guys to develop and/or takeover from Preston Smith in a few years, but that's not something that warrants a 1st-rounder. Smith is still an effective, high-end #2 guy, and his game is not based on pure speed but length, technique, and power. I think his game will age well and we can expect him to be effective for a while yet.
I don't, so as concisely as possible let me just say for every DT worth a first round grade there are 3 times as many edge rushers, so obviously that makes it 3 times as hard to find one late in the first where we normally pick, Clark was like finding the needle in the haystack, just look at all the misses Ted had trying to find them late first or early second, it's why I always say I hate drafting DT's unless it's a top 20 pick, it's one of the high bust rate positions.Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 07 Apr 2022 10:20
Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with every word of this. The depth sucks, we definitely need an infusion of talent/competition there. But as a depth need rather than a starter one, I would aim for more of a diversity of skills than more studs.NCF wrote: ↑07 Apr 2022 09:23@Labrev I get what you are saying and agree with parts of it. My issue with EDGE rushers is you need more than 2. Currently, we have 2, long-term we have 1, and we have absolutely no developmental talent behind either of them. I am not saying we need to use a 1st-round pick, but we need a higher end prospect to eventually replace Preston and in the shorter-term, we need a more naturally talented player so that Galeai and Garvin never have to see the field again.
Day 1 and 2 picks are for studs. Day 2 at EDGE could be justifiable as a guy who can take over Preston's spot in a few seasons and/or has versatility outside just EDGE. Day 1 on strict EDGE guy, though? I just find that a bit extravagant, ngl.
Especially considering the specific situations in which we were using Garvin and Galeai was early downs to keep Gary and Smith fresh for pass-rush situations. So their replacements will be early-down EDGE guys, typically guys you want to hold the edge and stop the run. You can fill that more than adequately with guys taken in the back half of the draft. Then a few guys who bring speed-rush to that would round out the position group nicely, yet again, those sorts of "one-trick pony" types you take later, or mids in the case of especially valuable tricks like pass-rush ability.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 07 Apr 2022 10:31
The more I think about it, the more I love double dipping for WR in Round 1. It not only doubles our chances of finding a stud, but even if both players become good long term starters (though not All Pro), then this offense should flourish for years to come. Just feels like a unique opportunity to stack the deck at that position while you also have two 2nd round picks to fill in other long term holes like Edge Rusher and Safety.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 12 Apr 2022 12:38
ESPN did a 7-Round Mock by someone named Reid:
Honestly pretty great22. Green Bay Packers (via LV)
Chris Olave, WR, Ohio State
The Packers' philosophy of waiting until Day 2 to draft wide receivers will be put to the test. They haven't selected a first-round receiver since Javon Walker in 2002, and general manager Brian Gutekunst could nix the trend as Olave is too tough to pass up.
Olave is a smooth route runner whose strengths align perfectly with what Green Bay wants to execute on offense. He is a dynamic three-level threat who would quickly become a dangerous target with Aaron Rodgers.
28. Green Bay Packers
Travis Jones, NT, UConn
Jones has helped himself during the pre-draft process more than any other prospect. At 6-foot-4, 325 pounds, he can play 0- or 1-technique with success because of how stout he is against the run while providing juice as a pass-rusher to collapse the pocket.
Whether it's Gilbert Brown, B.J. Raji, Mike Daniels and now Kenny Clark, historically, the Packers' defense has been at its best when there is a rock-solid option along the interior. Jones brings that skill set.
53. Green Bay Packers (via LV)
George Pickens, WR, Georgia
The Packers are strict about their thresholds in the early rounds, but the 6-foot-3 Pickens has a lot of the prerequisites the team has looked for when drafting other receivers. Green Bay has to get a boundary receiver, and Pickens has some high-end traits.
59. Green Bay Packers
Trey McBride, TE, Colorado State
There are many directions the franchise could go here, but I'll project the best prospect available. McBride is an F tight end Green Bay could use from multiple platforms in the passing game.
92. Green Bay Packers
Alex Wright, EDGE, UAB
At 6-foot-5, 271 pounds, Wright is an edge rusher with upside who could play a specific role for Green Bay. He has flown under the radar during the pre-draft process, but don't count out him playing early and often as a rookie.
132. Green Bay Packers: Kellen Diesch, OT, Arizona State
140. Green Bay Packers*: Leon O'Neal Jr., S, Texas A&M
171. Green Bay Packers: Zach Tom, OL, Wake Forest
228. Green Bay Packers (via CHI/HOU): D.J. Davidson, DT, Arizona State
249. Green Bay Packers: Smoke Monday, S, Auburn
258. Green Bay Packers*: Cordale Flott, CB, LSU
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 12 Apr 2022 13:31
Yea that's a home run for sure. Getting Tom late is a steal. That guy is going to start somewhere for a long time
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 12 Apr 2022 14:07
From another thread:
Well, Lance Zierlein coming out today making YoHo happy:
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022 14:20My current fever dream is somehow Jordan Davis slides to 22 and we create an absolutely dominant defensive front with him and Kenny, then we trade 28 and one of our seconds to the Seahawks for 40 and 41.
We take Christian Watson at 40 and George Pickens at 41, just to get his competitive fire going that he was our second choice.
Well, Lance Zierlein coming out today making YoHo happy:
Pick 22 Green Bay Packers (from LV)
Jordan Davis Georgia · DT · Senior
Green Bay needs a receiver, but the Packers won't reach for one if they see a better player on their board. Davis has rare traits, and his best football may be in front of him.
28 Green Bay Packers
Christian Watson North Dakota State · WR · Senior (RS)
Doesn't Watson just feel like a Packer? He's a little raw but ridiculously athletic, with the type of size (6-5, 208) that Aaron Rodgers seems to do well with vertically.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 12 Apr 2022 14:12
I think this is it for me, too. Get a premier player without trading up and then go to work. Although, the more we go along, the more I really like Travis Jones, as well.YoHoChecko wrote: ↑12 Apr 2022 14:07From another thread:
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑11 Apr 2022 14:20My current fever dream is somehow Jordan Davis slides to 22 and we create an absolutely dominant defensive front with him and Kenny, then we trade 28 and one of our seconds to the Seahawks for 40 and 41.
We take Christian Watson at 40 and George Pickens at 41, just to get his competitive fire going that he was our second choice.
Well, Lance Zierlein coming out today making YoHo happy:
Pick 22 Green Bay Packers (from LV)
Jordan Davis Georgia · DT · Senior
Green Bay needs a receiver, but the Packers won't reach for one if they see a better player on their board. Davis has rare traits, and his best football may be in front of him.
28 Green Bay Packers
Christian Watson North Dakota State · WR · Senior (RS)
Doesn't Watson just feel like a Packer? He's a little raw but ridiculously athletic, with the type of size (6-5, 208) that Aaron Rodgers seems to do well with vertically.
Re: Packers Mocks Around the Media
Posted: 12 Apr 2022 14:16
Absolutely.
For me there's Jordan Davis, Travis Jones, and then you might as well wait until Day 3 for a DL. Either of those two present rare, rare traits and seem to have fallen into a draft class where, at least to the knowledge of the outside world, they're being ridiculously undervalued. These guys are Dexter Lawrence, Derrick Brown, Vita Vea, BJ Raji, Dontari Poe rare. Those guys were top 15 picks, mostly. Lawrence went 17th. The highest I'm seeing Davis is 12. The highest I'm seeing Jones is like 25.