Packers Huddle

Drj820 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:21

The fact that fans don’t hold the org to this standard is why we haven’t won in over a decade.

The fact that you believe that is adorable.

This argument is so stupid.

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:48

Drj820 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:21

The fact that fans don’t hold the org to this standard is why we haven’t won in over a decade.

The fact that you believe that is adorable.

[mention]NCF[/mention] you should know by now that the key to SB wins is complaining more, hating on Packers players instead of supporting them, and firing everyone every year or two if a SB isn't won.

There must have been A LOT of complaining, hating and firing of people in the Lombardi years...

salmar80 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:54

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:48

Drj820 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:21

The fact that fans don’t hold the org to this standard is why we haven’t won in over a decade.

The fact that you believe that is adorable.

@NCF you should know by now that the key to SB wins is complaining more, hating on Packers players instead of supporting them, and firing everyone every year or two if a SB isn't won.

There must have been A LOT of complaining, hating and firing of people in the Lombardi years...

Or maybe Jeff built the place originally so both sides of the coin could be heard. Those of you not along for the ride when Julie's world was the thing don't understand it was Packer's positive on steroids and if you so much as thought about negative waves you got booted.... that's why Jeff created the forum with louder. (so everyone could have their opinion heard)

Do you know what's really boring? An entire topic/forum that has no differing opinions or viewpoints. What would be the point if everyone was always glass 3/4 full and sunshine? Food for thought.

You call it complaining and whining....I call it a passionate fan base that cares and doesn't mind expressing themselves as such.

wizard 87 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:10

salmar80 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:54

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:48

The fact that you believe that is adorable.

@NCF you should know by now that the key to SB wins is complaining more, hating on Packers players instead of supporting them, and firing everyone every year or two if a SB isn't won.

There must have been A LOT of complaining, hating and firing of people in the Lombardi years...

Or maybe Jeff built the place originally so both sides of the coin could be heard. Those of you not along for the ride when Julie's world was the thing don't understand it was Packer's positive on steroids and if you so much as thought about negative waves you got booted.... that's why Jeff created the forum with louder. (so everyone could have their opinion heard)

Do you know what's really boring? An entire topic/forum that has no differing opinions or viewpoints. What would be the point if everyone was always glass 3/4 full and sunshine? Food for thought.

You call it complaining and whining....I call it a passionate fan base that cares and doesn't mind expressing themselves as such.

Thank you wizard. Great post. It’s true, salmar 23 and nfc want a 24/7 slurp fest of everything the org does or all of a sudden we are bad fans.

I enjoy the banter and different perspectives

wizard 87 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:10

You call it complaining and whining....I call it a passionate fan base that cares and doesn't mind expressing themselves as such.

Express yourself all you want, but if you think that is going to do anything to help drive wins and losses for the organization, you are wrong.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:15

wizard 87 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:10

salmar80 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:54

@NCF you should know by now that the key to SB wins is complaining more, hating on Packers players instead of supporting them, and firing everyone every year or two if a SB isn't won.

There must have been A LOT of complaining, hating and firing of people in the Lombardi years...

Or maybe Jeff built the place originally so both sides of the coin could be heard. Those of you not along for the ride when Julie's world was the thing don't understand it was Packer's positive on steroids and if you so much as thought about negative waves you got booted.... that's why Jeff created the forum with louder. (so everyone could have their opinion heard)

Do you know what's really boring? An entire topic/forum that has no differing opinions or viewpoints. What would be the point if everyone was always glass 3/4 full and sunshine? Food for thought.

You call it complaining and whining....I call it a passionate fan base that cares and doesn't mind expressing themselves as such.

Thank you wizard. Great post. It’s true, salmar 23 and nfc want a 24/7 slurp fest of everything the org does or all of a sudden we are bad fans.

I enjoy the banter and different perspectives

You enjoy stirring the pot. That's it.

wizard 87 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:10

Or maybe Jeff built the place originally so both sides of the coin could be heard. Those of you not along for the ride when Julie's world was the thing don't understand it was Packer's positive on steroids and if you so much as thought about negative waves you got booted.... that's why Jeff created the forum with louder. (so everyone could have their opinion heard)

Do you know what's really boring? An entire topic/forum that has no differing opinions or viewpoints. What would be the point if everyone was always glass 3/4 full and sunshine? Food for thought.

You call it complaining and whining....I call it a passionate fan base that cares and doesn't mind expressing themselves as such.

Gotta be honest, I hate takes like this, for a number of reasons.

First, it assumes and describes a permanence or entrenchment in the debates that happen, as if there are only two sides, a Packers-positive side and a Packers-negative side. But within whatever people THINK the dividing lines are here among members, they don't always wind up on opposite sides. I argue against and in concert with many of the same posters, and I've seen the same from others. We all have a spectrum of beliefs and let a couple intransigent debates define the board like it's black and white.

Second, it is always framed as if the posts that are Packers-positive are the oppressive tyrants of information and discourse, and those which are Packers-negative are the insurgent, valuable diversity. It's a take that sounds like it's praising the both-sides-ness but is actually framed against positivity. It assumes that the reasons for praise are blind homerism, rather than a 30-year stretch of NFL success that is second to maybe one franchise in the league.

When packers positive opinions are shared to combat Packers-negative posts, that is an opinion that is very much part of debate you describe, not an act of oppression against dissent.

Someone literally suggested that fan sentiment accepting less than Super Bowls is "the reason" the franchise hasn't won more Super Bowls. Arguing against that is valid debate, not one-sided attempt at censorship

Drj820 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:15

wizard 87 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:10

salmar80 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:54

@NCF you should know by now that the key to SB wins is complaining more, hating on Packers players instead of supporting them, and firing everyone every year or two if a SB isn't won.

There must have been A LOT of complaining, hating and firing of people in the Lombardi years...

Or maybe Jeff built the place originally so both sides of the coin could be heard. Those of you not along for the ride when Julie's world was the thing don't understand it was Packer's positive on steroids and if you so much as thought about negative waves you got booted.... that's why Jeff created the forum with louder. (so everyone could have their opinion heard)

Do you know what's really boring? An entire topic/forum that has no differing opinions or viewpoints. What would be the point if everyone was always glass 3/4 full and sunshine? Food for thought.

You call it complaining and whining....I call it a passionate fan base that cares and doesn't mind expressing themselves as such.

Thank you wizard. Great post. It’s true, salmar 23 and nfc want a 24/7 slurp fest of everything the org does or all of a sudden we are bad fans.

I enjoy the banter and different perspectives

Naah, I enjoy y'all's silly and wrong opinions and am glad you are posting here. I hope you like my silly and wrong opinions, too.

There IS one thing that can put a poster on my black list: Wishing an injury or other harm on a Packers player or other member of the organization. That's where the line between this being a hobby/entertainment and Packers being real human beings is crossed.

wizard 87 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:10

salmar80 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:54

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:48

The fact that you believe that is adorable.

@NCF you should know by now that the key to SB wins is complaining more, hating on Packers players instead of supporting them, and firing everyone every year or two if a SB isn't won.

There must have been A LOT of complaining, hating and firing of people in the Lombardi years...

Or maybe Jeff built the place originally so both sides of the coin could be heard. Those of you not along for the ride when Julie's world was the thing don't understand it was Packer's positive on steroids and if you so much as thought about negative waves you got booted.... that's why Jeff created the forum with louder. (so everyone could have their opinion heard)

Do you know what's really boring? An entire topic/forum that has no differing opinions or viewpoints. What would be the point if everyone was always glass 3/4 full and sunshine? Food for thought.

You call it complaining and whining....I call it a passionate fan base that cares and doesn't mind expressing themselves as such.

It doesn't look to me like the quotes in question are taking exception with the idea of voicing complaints against the team on this forum per-se, rather they seem to be ridiculing the idea that complaining about the team is a practical exercise that improves the team.

Also, what YoHo said; everybody here has criticisms of the team from time to time. Yes, there are posters who lean more positive and more negative overall, but even the positive ground (which I count myself in) has complaints about the team.

wizard 87 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:10

salmar80 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:54

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 12:48

The fact that you believe that is adorable.

@NCF you should know by now that the key to SB wins is complaining more, hating on Packers players instead of supporting them, and firing everyone every year or two if a SB isn't won.

There must have been A LOT of complaining, hating and firing of people in the Lombardi years...

Or maybe Jeff built the place originally so both sides of the coin could be heard. Those of you not along for the ride when Julie's world was the thing don't understand it was Packer's positive on steroids and if you so much as thought about negative waves you got booted.... that's why Jeff created the forum with louder. (so everyone could have their opinion heard)

Do you know what's really boring? An entire topic/forum that has no differing opinions or viewpoints. What would be the point if everyone was always glass 3/4 full and sunshine? Food for thought.

You call it complaining and whining....I call it a passionate fan base that cares and doesn't mind expressing themselves as such.

The WIZARD rides again, miss your input Buddy

it takes a difference of opinions and disagreements for any forum to survive

what happened at Julies PG forum imo is the same thing happening here, this is just a smaller forum, those that defended Favre where shinned on the same way as here, and sides will form and since the group supporting getting rid of the old established vet far exceeds the number of those defending, it becomes gang war fare with those in the larger group calling the defenders hero worshipers, Ards and other degrading names.

as you said Wiz, we are all passionate Packer fans who are simply disagreeing on the fine points, no reason to destroy a forum over it or attempt to drive decenters away, we should be able to disagree on topic and still respect the other posters.

where also pseudo GM's, we think we know all there is to know about football, we read a lot

I have no problem with debate and differing sides.

But I call out disinformation, whether intentional, laziness, or by mistake (the mistakes are usually settled quickly. The other two turn into pages and pages of arguing and then victim carding). But accurate information should be valued. I want to be a well informed fan. It's why I started Packers forums to begin with.

And then there are just the pot stirrers who have no real intent beyond simply saying things to drive emotion and response.

salmar80 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:40

There IS one thing that can put a poster on my black list: Wishing an injury or other harm on a Packers player or other member of the organization. That's where the line between this being a hobby/entertainment and Packers being real human beings is crossed.

instead of asking for a list of members here that have done that, which I consider a sarcastic response, I'll just state I don't remember anyone even hinting at wanting any player, coach, or even the water boy to sustain injury

sarcasm destroys respect more I think then any other form of communication, and for quite some time this last couple years it has divided our forum, I know I've become guilty of that, and I hope to catch myself more and remove that from my vocabulary, lets make this the fun house it had been for so long.

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:59

I have no problem with debate and differing sides.

But I call out disinformation, whether intentional, laziness, or by mistake (the mistakes are usually settled quickly. The other two turn into pages and pages of arguing and then victim carding). But accurate information should be valued. I want to be a well informed fan. It's why I started Packers forums to begin with.

And then there are just the pot stirrers who have no real intent beyond simply saying things to drive emotion and response.

it's one thing to correct someone, it's another to ridicule or degrade another, and not everyone is as educated or on the same level as you and others.

and if a person is in the middle of typing something they shouldn't have to have exact stats, I hear corrections over the minimalist stuff, hear corrections as was the case with consultation, when I said consulted I obviously meant more then just a opinion of character traits, and those that questioned that new what I meant.

the lack of compassion some have for others in this forum has been at a all time high

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:59

salmar80 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:40

There IS one thing that can put a poster on my black list: Wishing an injury or other harm on a Packers player or other member of the organization. That's where the line between this being a hobby/entertainment and Packers being real human beings is crossed.

instead of asking for a list of members here that have done that, which I consider a sarcastic response, I'll just state I don't remember anyone even hinting at wanting any player, coach, or even the water boy to sustain injury

sarcasm destroys respect more I think then any other form of communication, and for quite some time this last couple years it has divided our forum, I know I've become guilty of that, and I hope to catch myself more and remove that from my vocabulary, lets make this the fun house it had been for so long.

This has been very rare, and currently my blacklist has 0 people on it. It's really more of a problem on other forums like FF and the cesspit that was PackersPlanet... There were posters actually, non-sarcastically, wishing harm to people within the org. Those types tend to get banned here, which I consider to be a good thing.

Yoop wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 14:10

go pak go wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:59

I have no problem with debate and differing sides.

But I call out disinformation, whether intentional, laziness, or by mistake (the mistakes are usually settled quickly. The other two turn into pages and pages of arguing and then victim carding). But accurate information should be valued. I want to be a well informed fan. It's why I started Packers forums to begin with.

And then there are just the pot stirrers who have no real intent beyond simply saying things to drive emotion and response.

it's one thing to correct someone, it's another to ridicule or degrade another, and not everyone is as educated or on the same level as you and others.

and if a person is in the middle of typing something they shouldn't have to have exact stats, I hear corrections over the minimalist stuff, hear corrections as was the case with consultation, when I said consulted I obviously meant more then just a opinion of character traits, and those that questioned that new what I meant.

the lack of compassion some have for others in this forum has been at a all time high

When you make a comment saying there was absolutely no consultation and then an article is brought forth describing a player group who is being consulted on the type of coach the players would like to play for...it should not, in the slightest, be obvious what yoop's definition of "consultation" is.

It is reasonable to know what consultation is and accept a moderate range of what satisfies consultation. Consultation is not management. Consultation is not decision making. The players were consulted. What you eventually got to was the level of consultation was not enough which to yoop's definition was: at minimum "direct conversation and discussion over a specific coach prospect" and at most, "actually being on the decision making committee - which is not consulting.

A way this could have been resolved was

thank you for the article. I forgot about the player committee who was consulted on the type of coach they think would be an effective leader for the Packers. Still looking back, I think management made a mistake by not including Rodgers at a deeper level considering the importance of the relationship between QB and an offensive minded head coach. It was clear Rodgers thought communication between him and the team was poor and BG admitted as such after 2021. Having Rodgers be more involved would have likely led to better goodwill between he and the team.

That being said, the hire of MLF was a great hire. Rodgers got along great with MLF and Rodgers put together the best string of years in his career. So even with the personal Rodgers angst, in this situation, BG and Murphy got the hire right and ultimately Rodgers can't be mad about the results

Yoop is a good hearted old man, for some of you to ridicule his every literal word when we all know what he actually meant or was trying to say is shameful! That’s why I come to the defense of the yooper.

No, you are simply pot stirring, to put it kindly. He is not being ridiculed here. The only who did that was YOU.

We did NOT all know what he meant, which is why an article was brought and the argument did not start until days after when you brought it back up. You are little more than a pot stirrer. This is your time, your hay day, when there is little to talk about, so it makes it easy for you to do all that you love. It's the only reason you were upset when PackerNation was again banned. It's also why you use insulting monikers for coaches and players. You want arguments for their own sake.

Yoop gets upset when we can't decipher what he means instead of taking his words at face value. Yoop gets upset when he is asked questions to clarify what he means. It's a no win situation with him, which is why you love it.

NCF wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:16

wizard 87 wrote: ↑

04 Jun 2023 13:10

You call it complaining and whining....I call it a passionate fan base that cares and doesn't mind expressing themselves as such.

Express yourself all you want, but if you think that is going to do anything to help drive wins and losses for the organization, you are wrong.

Did I say that? No, I did not, I appreciate that you kept the dream alive here very much NFC but no matter where you go folks are going to bitch and complain and some are going to go over the top. I also more than you can know appreciate those that moderate and administrate any forum or message board, it's a thankless task most times. So Thank you.

Peace

My intent earlier was NOT to undermine anyone, if taken that way I apologize. I just 100% have seen 3 large packer boards go under when folks started taking things too positive/negative and skewing the board that way.

I said this in another thread, consider yourselves lucky Jeff or Louder aren't here after some of the posts the past few weeks. You would be on a vaca and get a very stern PM. Yeah, I miss Jeff and several others who are no longer with us. Yes, I am melancholy about the place.

Enjoy your summer, and see you all in July.