Packer 2022 Defense Thoughts

[LombardiTime]

Za’Darius Smith is the NFC defensive player of the month.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... the-month/

I fully understand why, after last season's shenanigans and due to cap realities, Z had to be released.

I am also wondering if Z not getting named a captain/not getting a new deal and souring on the team, despite his play on the field, might be symbolic of some of the endemic problems with the Packers defense. I say this because Jaire was similarly miffed about not being named a captain this season. What do both Z and Jaire have in common, other than being very good players? They play the game with obvious swagger, passion, attitude or whatever one wants to call it. So does Rasul Douglas.

For far too long, the Packers have lacked an aggressive approach to defense and I am coming around to the notion that the Packers shying away from certain personality types might be a contributing factor to the defensive struggles. (Or I am desperately trying to come up with some reason for why the defense continues to struggle when I thought it would shine.)

Looking at other teams, Aaron Donald is an awesome player, but he is also a dirt bag. When the Bucs won the Super Bowl in 2020, the ultimate dirt bag Suh helped make them almost impossible to run against.

Neither Z nor Jaire are dirt bags on the field, but they are both excellent defenders who wear their passion on their sleeves and neither became captains of the defense. Could also be they are just selfish guys, I am spitballing here.

Just some possibly nonsensical food for thought as to why our defense continues to struggle despite all the high draft picks and at least on paper all that talent.

[Realist]

…or he is just honorable enough that he doesn’t want to set a mid-season precedent of firing coaches. Just a thought.

Many even casual Packers' fans recognized the Special Teams Coordinator was in over his head by mid-season last year.

I believe and certainly would hope MLF recognized that reality much earlier.

Unfortunately, but not unsurprisingly, Drayton's Special Teams were absolutely brutal in the playoff loss to the 49ers.

Thus, in my view, whatever "honor" MLF gained by waiting until after the playoff debacle to fire Drayton, was more than offset by the dishonor of allowing Drayton's incompetence to so greatly contribute to a loss that negatively impacted not just Drayton but the players, coaches, and fans of the Packers as well.

Ignoring a known problem, hoping it will go away, and not acting upon it until after it leads to disastrous results is, in my opinion, evidence not of honor but of cowardice.

CUCK = an insulting word for a weak man.

Not a fan of MLF myself. If he is weak then what is Gute? He is the major problem in my opinion. EVERYTHING starts with the GM.

[Yoop]

Or I am desperately trying to come up with some reason for why the defense continues to struggle when I thought it would shine.)

a bit maybe, but where all doing the same, looking for logical reasons for this defensive decline, I thought the players also contributed there opinion about who should Captain there squads?? maybe that formula has changed, or the nucleus of players felt Z and this years Alexander both coming off IR seasons didn't merit such lofty status, who knows

we do have some tough players, Clark, Gary, Campbell, Amos, are talented if not boisterous, defenses shouldn't need a gangster to perform better then we have.

for a unit so loaded with talent, mass confusion at times seems to common, thats a coaching issue, but I don't expect that to change mid season minus players refusing to play for Berry, look how hard, and the stuff AR had to do to get Murphy ( the real cuprite of our woes) to dump McCarthy, it's rare to see coaches replaced mid season, I was a little surprised Lafluer didn't promote from within, if we don't give the cord Job to Gray at the end of the season, I expect some other coach will, year in year out his secondary ranks very high, unless a cord like Berry screws it up.

obviously I don't see this as a talent issue, or lack of dirt bag players

[Yoop]

Many even casual Packers' fans recognized the Special Teams Coordinator was in over his head by mid-season last year.

I believe and certainly would hope MLF recognized that reality much earlier.

Unfortunately, but not unsurprisingly, Drayton's Special Teams were absolutely brutal in the playoff loss to the 49ers.

Thus, in my view, whatever "honor" MLF gained by waiting until after the playoff debacle to fire Drayton, was more than offset by the dishonor of allowing Drayton's incompetence to so greatly contribute to a loss that negatively impacted not just Drayton but the players, coaches, and fans of the Packers as well.

Ignoring a known problem, hoping it will go away, and not acting upon it until after it leads to disastrous results is, in my opinion, evidence not of honor but of cowardice.

CUCK = an insulting word for a weak man.

Not a fan of MLF myself. If he is weak then what is Gute? He is the major problem in my opinion. EVERYTHING starts with the GM.

no it doesn't, not since 2018, Murphy over see's football operations now, the coach and GM report to him, Gutekunst can't hire and fire minus his approval, unless he's handed control back to Guty, which I havn't heard, Murphy is the big dog.

[packman114]

OK, I hate to be this type of guy but I'm not really impressed with Joe Barry's press conferences. MLF said Monday that the defense needs to be more aggressive in the run game but none of the writers asked Barry about that and he did not make that point. He talked about working on tackling better and then said we've played the run good 90% of the time. Didn't sound like a guy who was worried about it. He said it was 4-5 plays each week that gashed us and it was different mistakes every time.

I will give one writer cudos for asking if he thought playing Savage at nickel and Douglas at safety would be better. He said we've never thought of Douglas at safety and that there was no one to put at safety if we moved Savage to nickel. I guess he doesn't like Ford as much as the fans do.

[LombardiTime]

I knew the run defense was bad, but if this article is accurate, I had no idea it was this bad.

The Packers’ horrific run defense is even worse than it seems. However bad you think it is, it’s been so much worse.

From the article, "Last year’s team, in Joe Barry’s first season, was the second-worst run defense of the last decade for the Packers. That this year has gotten substantially worse is stunning."

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-t ... n-it-seems

[go pak go]

I knew the run defense was bad, but if this article is accurate, I had no idea it was this bad.

The Packers’ horrific run defense is even worse than it seems. However bad you think it is, it’s been so much worse.

From the article, "Last year’s team, in Joe Barry’s first season, was the second-worst run defense of the last decade for the Packers. That this year has gotten substantially worse is stunning."

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-t ... n-it-seems

image.png (38.67 KiB) Viewed 347 times

[Pckfn23]

Ya, not good at all and it's almost exclusively on coaching. Why it's so passive this year is beyond me.

[go pak go]

Ya, not good at all and it's almost exclusively on coaching. Why it's so passive this year is beyond me.

What's crazy is this passivity is spanning now 3 DC's.

[Labrev]

It's not an elite QB league anymore, so it's no longer smart defense to focus on stopping the pass at the expense of the run. Barry has not caught up; he is playing like we are going up against Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, Tyler Boyd and Tee Higgins every week and that strategy is losing us games to teams like NYJ that have nothing but RB1.

[Pckfn23]

Ya, not good at all and it's almost exclusively on coaching. Why it's so passive this year is beyond me.

What's crazy is this passivity is spanning now 3 DC's.

It wasn't as bad last year though, that's why it is beyond me.

[Yoop]

It's not an elite QB league anymore, so it's no longer smart defense to focus on stopping the pass at the expense of the run. Barry has not caught up; he is playing like we are going up against Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, Tyler Boyd and Tee Higgins every week and that strategy is losing us games to teams like NYJ that have nothing but RB1.

come on now, I doubt you even believe what ya just typed , one poor tech (stopping the run) leads to the decline of the other and vice versa, so when your defense is great at stopping the run with poorer ability in coverage even below average QB's will beat ya.

imho it will always be a QB driven league, we are seeing a uptick in balance of run to pass because defenses are so much better in coverage ability lately, but the goal since like forever has been to establish the run so that it's easier to pass, I don't think that has changed, but teams have to have more success running because of the reason I mentioned, defensive pass coverage has been the focus point of every DC, pass coverage over all matters more because of the quick score ability.

as Barry said, we stop or limit the run most of the time, our problem is that we give up a few back breaking runs a game, and poor tackling is to often to blame, imo I think that has merit, it's what I see.

[LombardiTime]

Ya, not good at all and it's almost exclusively on coaching. Why it's so passive this year is beyond me.

What's crazy is this passivity is spanning now 3 DC's.

Yes that is absolutely crazy.

And spanning completely different players as well.

I just cannot comprehend how a defense with Kenny Clark, Jarran Reed, TJ Slaton, Dean Lowery, and Devonte Wyatt along the DL and seemingly competent inside linebackers can be the worst or about the worst in the league stopping the run.

I am sure Barry's passive and ineffective approach is mostly to blame but this has been such a recurring reality that I am coming to the conclusion that someone from outside the Packer organization needs to do a deep dive into the scheme, drafting philosophy, culture, the whole shebang to turn this defense around.

We have become to defense what the Bears are to the QBs and the passing game. Not a good place to be.

[go pak go]

Ya, not good at all and it's almost exclusively on coaching. Why it's so passive this year is beyond me.

What's crazy is this passivity is spanning now 3 DC's.

Yes that is absolutely crazy.

And spanning completely different players as well.

I just cannot comprehend how a defense with Kenny Clark, Jarran Reed, TJ Slaton, Dean Lowery, and Devonte Wyatt along the DL and seemingly competent inside linebackers can be the worst or about the worst in the league stopping the run.

I am sure Barry's passive and ineffective approach is mostly to blame but this has been such a recurring reality that I am coming to the conclusion that someone from outside the Packer organization needs to do a deep dive into the scheme, drafting philosophy, culture, the whole shebang to turn this defense around.

We have become to defense what the Bears are to the QBs and the passing game. Not a good place to be.

I have always been fascinated about how NFL teams seem to follow a culture no matter who is leading the team or playing for the team.

Examples: Chicago Bears are always good at running the ball and especially good at defense and special teams. But terrible at QB. Even when they bring in Cutler and a host of WR talent...they still rely on their strong defense and STs.

Minnesota Vikings are amazing at finding defensive linemen. However, until this year, the Vikings are absolutely atrocious at finding offensive linemen no matter how much resources they throw at it.

Green Bay is historically amazing at finding offensive linemen. However, the Packers are absolutely terrible finding DL and LBs even if they find "stars" the unit as a whole is always behind other teams with less star power.

The Lions no matter what are always terrible.

[Yoop]

Ya, not good at all and it's almost exclusively on coaching. Why it's so passive this year is beyond me.

coaches unable to adjust there scheme to players available, can easily be said of the last two ( pettine and Barry)

Injury's and lack of talent where the bigger issues I had with the Capers tenure, imho thats why we kept him so long, between 2011 till the day he left we went without a starter talent player at whole position groups one year to the next, how can anyone expect a coach to over come that, it's the reason I defended him so much, and the same reason I defend Rodgers, neither are perfect, but even the best need talent to be successful.

[Pckfn23]

Ya, not good at all and it's almost exclusively on coaching. Why it's so passive this year is beyond me.

coaches unable to adjust there scheme to players available, can easily be said of the last two ( pettine and Barry)

Injury's and lack of talent where the bigger issues I had with the Capers tenure, imho thats why we kept him so long, between 2011 till the day he left we went without a starter talent player at whole position groups one year to the next, how can anyone expect a coach to over come that, it's the reason I defended him so much, and the same reason I defend Rodgers, neither are perfect, but even the best need talent to be successful.

Capers has been gone for half a decade, let it go. It is astounding how you bring EVERYTHING around to your pet topics.

[Yoop]

Ya, not good at all and it's almost exclusively on coaching. Why it's so passive this year is beyond me.

coaches unable to adjust there scheme to players available, can easily be said of the last two ( pettine and Barry)

Injury's and lack of talent where the bigger issues I had with the Capers tenure, imho thats why we kept him so long, between 2011 till the day he left we went without a starter talent player at whole position groups one year to the next, how can anyone expect a coach to over come that, it's the reason I defended him so much, and the same reason I defend Rodgers, neither are perfect, but even the best need talent to be successful.

Capers has been gone for half a decade, let it go.

haha, OK, but look at the talent up grade the last 5 years, that was my point.

[go pak go]

coaches unable to adjust there scheme to players available, can easily be said of the last two ( pettine and Barry)

Injury's and lack of talent where the bigger issues I had with the Capers tenure, imho thats why we kept him so long, between 2011 till the day he left we went without a starter talent player at whole position groups one year to the next, how can anyone expect a coach to over come that, it's the reason I defended him so much, and the same reason I defend Rodgers, neither are perfect, but even the best need talent to be successful.

Capers has been gone for half a decade, let it go.

haha, OK, but look at the talent up grade the last 5 years, that was my point.

Certainly no real change in talent investment. We have always invested heavy in defense.

[LombardiTime]

Fangio consulting in Philly this season. Eagles are 4th in points allowed and 8-0 overall.

Not advocating for Fangio specifically, but maybe someone who has a track record of success on D can come in as a consultant an offer opinion on how to turn around the defense?

Zimmer? Anyone?

I concede I am lost and desperate when it comes to the D.

[Labrev]

It's not an elite QB league anymore, so it's no longer smart defense to focus on stopping the pass at the expense of the run. Barry has not caught up; he is playing like we are going up against Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, Tyler Boyd and Tee Higgins every week and that strategy is losing us games to teams like NYJ that have nothing but RB1.

come on now, I doubt you even believe what ya just typed ,

Why would you doubt that when I advocate more rushing all the time? A cursory look around the league supports what I am saying: the top QBs in the league right now are not leading the top teams in the league, Mahomes and Allen are the only ones.

so when your defense is great at stopping the run with poorer ability in coverage even below average QB's will beat ya.

I do not believe that.

A good QB might be able to overcome the lack of a running game, but even that can be dicey if all the other conditions are not favorable (e.g. receiver quality, weather, pass rush, etc). They would have to consistently convert down-and-distance throughout the span of a game, where just 1 incompletion on third down usually kills a drive; we see this struggle on our own team with a QB that is *above* average.

No "below-average" QB is beating a team that takes the run away and makes them have to convert down-and-distance all game. 9 out of 10 times, an average QB will not, either. You can only believe this if you imagine a pass defense *so bad* that it falls far below even the lowest threshold of NFL standards, a level of incompetence so extreme that it's not worth entertaining in serious discussion, like a team fielding only semi-pro players at DB.

What you are saying is crazy talk, I might as well argue that all-powerful wizards will show up and tilt the game back in the defense's favor.