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Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 16 Apr 2021 12:45
by NCF
I still wonder short and long term if our best line might be:
Bak/Turner - Runyan - Patrick - Stepaniak - Jenkins
Looks weird because it puts Turner on the bench when Bak gets... well, back, but I think we found out last year the value a swing tackle can have. Draft and develop another and release Turner after 2021 like is probably in the cards, anyway. Draft and develop another OC or pay Patrick. Jenkins is the key in all of this and is going to cost us a crap ton of money to re-sign. Wouldn't we feel much better paying a bona fide RT than investing all that at OG? I also hate that every injury we have involves us shifting 3 guys around and I would like to limit that more than we have recently.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 16 Apr 2021 12:53
by YoHoChecko
NCF wrote: ↑16 Apr 2021 12:45
I still wonder short and long term if our best line might be:
Bak/Turner - Runyan - Patrick - Stepaniak - Jenkins
Looks weird because it puts Turner on the bench when Bak gets... well, back, but I think we found out last year the value a swing tackle can have. Draft and develop another and release Turner after 2021 like is probably in the cards, anyway. Draft and develop another OC or pay Patrick. Jenkins is the key in all of this and is going to cost us a crap ton of money to re-sign. Wouldn't we feel much better paying a bona fide RT than investing all that at OG? I also hate that every injury we have involves us shifting 3 guys around and I would like to limit that more than we have recently.
I can see no possible outcome in which both Patrick and Stepaniak represent our "top 5" ahead of Turner. Short term, this idea is absolutely whack.
I do wonder about Jenkins' best position both long and short term, and do like your thinking a bit about paying OTs not OGs. But the staff will have to evaluate Jenkins and make that determination in ways I am wildly unqualified for.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 16 Apr 2021 13:50
by lupedafiasco
It might be a year early for Runyan, Patrick, and Stepaniak on the interior. I think Bak is good to go week one. They probably keep Turner at RT much to my dismay. The added void years make me think hes here for the length of his contract. I always thought the plan was to move Jenkins to center after Linsley but I also didnt expect him to be so dominant at guard. Patrick does make sense as hes the most limited at guard.
Depending on the draft I would bet its Bak, Jenkins, Patrick, Stepaniak, Turner week one with the potential of Patrick being replaced during the course of the season. I cant see Hanson starting with his limited athleticism based on his combine and I really think Stepaniak might have the higher ceiling at OG with Runyan having a higher potential to be that versatile swing lineman.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 16 Apr 2021 14:16
by NCF
What I can't decide for myself is what this staff's willingness to move Jenkins is. Where do they want him and why? I think once we understand that the other pieces will be much, much easier to slot.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 16 Apr 2021 14:33
by BSA
NCF wrote: ↑16 Apr 2021 14:16
What I can't decide for myself is what this staff's willingness to move Jenkins is. Where do they want him and why? I think once we understand that the other pieces will be much, much easier to slot.
IF you slot Jenkins at Center, then you aren't going to move him around - he would be locked in. Same if you put him at RT. So if you value his versatility, he plays LG and I think that's gonna be the choice. Lucas Patrick is a better Center than he is an OG, so I think Center is his spot to lose, while Hanson and any new guys develop. Plus Rodgers "likes" Lucas Patrick and they've worked together before
Stepaniak seems like an OG-only, so if he beats out Runyan at RG,its his. Runyan will give him a run for his money- but one added value with Runyan is that he has some experience at OT - so he brings added value as 6th OL- whereas Stepaniak really doesn't. I'd bring in Veldheer or another vet to hold down LT in Sept while keeping all of the other guys in their spots. Bak(+ vet) -Jenkins- Patrick- Stepaniak/Runyan - Turner
I've read comments that Jenkins at LG is good enough that he could end up in Josh Sitton territory- and that pairing him with Bakh would give GB a top end left side, both in pass pro and running. And one more data point - Lane Taylor and his agent looked at GB depth chart at OG and concluded their chances were better elsewhere and that's cool to see from a Packers POV.
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Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 16 Apr 2021 15:12
by paco
Snacks trying to help us out! I'd be very happy if we can find a way to bring him in.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 16 Apr 2021 15:26
by Labrev
Jenkins has been dominant at LG, so I am hesitant to want to move him from there.
Then again, if he came into 'camp as the starting C and focused on that position, maybe that would elevate his play there.
Also, moving him to C will make keeping him long-term more affordable, because C contracts tend to be more affordable than Gs'.
I think you go with whichever one of Jenkins or Patrick looks more comfortable there with Rodgers while giving Hanson an outside shot at it.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 17 Apr 2021 12:08
by TheSkeptic
Bak, Runyan, Patrick, Stepaniak, Jenkins
Turner backs up every position except center
Pay Jenkins whatever is necessary to keep him long term
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 17 Apr 2021 12:14
by BF004
I wanted Lane back.
A hell of a lot more than I wanted Corderelle Patterson.
Let us not forget Taylor won starting jobs both years in LaFleurs offense. And with zero experience in LaFleurs offense, beat out pro bowler Elgton Jenkins just 18 months ago.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 17 Apr 2021 13:09
by YoHoChecko
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021 12:08
Bak, Runyan, Patrick, Stepaniak, Jenkins
Turner backs up every position except center
Pay Jenkins whatever is necessary to keep him long term
You guys. For real. Turner is our starting RT. I don't understand this resistance/hesitance around him. He was a solid RT on one of the league's best OLines. He moved around in response to injuries and Wagner started a lot at RT, too, but we don't cut Ricky Wagner to demote Billy Turner. He's a starter on this line, for sure, and all this Stepianik talk is absolutely silly for a guy no one has ever seen play a single snap.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 17 Apr 2021 13:47
by go pak go
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021 13:09
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021 12:08
Bak, Runyan, Patrick, Stepaniak, Jenkins
Turner backs up every position except center
Pay Jenkins whatever is necessary to keep him long term
You guys. For real. Turner is our starting RT. I don't understand this resistance/hesitance around him. He was a solid RT on one of the league's best OLines. He moved around in response to injuries and Wagner started a lot at RT, too, but we don't cut Ricky Wagner to demote Billy Turner. He's a starter on this line, for sure, and all this Stepianik talk is absolutely silly for a guy no one has ever seen play a single snap.
I thought Turner was a better RT for us in 2020 than he was a RG for us in 2019. I don't get the hate for Turner.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 17 Apr 2021 15:06
by TheSkeptic
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021 13:09
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021 12:08
Bak, Runyan, Patrick, Stepaniak, Jenkins
Turner backs up every position except center
Pay Jenkins whatever is necessary to keep him long term
You guys. For real. Turner is our starting RT. I don't understand this resistance/hesitance around him. He was a solid RT on one of the league's best OLines. He moved around in response to injuries and Wagner started a lot at RT, too, but we don't cut Ricky Wagner to demote Billy Turner. He's a starter on this line, for sure, and all this Stepianik talk is absolutely silly for a guy no one has ever seen play a single snap.
There are a number of issues here. First is that if Turner is used to back up 4 positions he is likely to play as much as a starter unless he gets hurt himself.
Secondly, keeping Jenkins long term is important. If the Packers don't move Jenkins to RT, another team will pay him and will move him to OT. Moving him to center only makes it more certain that the Packers will lose him.
Thirdly, although Stepianik is the most likely to take a starting guard position, it could just as well be someone else, even a rookie drafted this spring. The name isn't critical, being young and on a rookie contract is. Nevertheless, you don't draft a guy who tore his ACL post-season unless you see something, which the Packers apparently did. Here is what the Indiana Oline coach had to say about him:
“As a football player, he can bend. He’s loose,” Hiller said. “He’s not a big, stiff kind of guy. He’s loose in the hips and loose in the joints. He’s got good fluidity to his movement skills and all those things." “I think he fits well,” Hiller said. “He understands angles and he’s smart. He’s just got to continue to get better on the outside zone. Just watching the Packers, I know they run quite a bit of outside zone. Simon fits in. To me, because of his athletic ability and his strength, I think he can thrive in any type of scheme. I’ve coached guys who were maybe a little bit bigger and stiffer. The zone scheme, you have to have some athletic ability. It’s not just get on a track and block whatever’s on that track. There’s some concepts and combinations that you have to be able to get onto linebackers and run some combo blocks. He has that fluidity.” And everyone says Stepianik is incredibly strong and tough.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 17 Apr 2021 17:02
by lupedafiasco
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021 15:06
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021 13:09
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021 12:08
Bak, Runyan, Patrick, Stepaniak, Jenkins
Turner backs up every position except center
Pay Jenkins whatever is necessary to keep him long term
You guys. For real. Turner is our starting RT. I don't understand this resistance/hesitance around him. He was a solid RT on one of the league's best OLines. He moved around in response to injuries and Wagner started a lot at RT, too, but we don't cut Ricky Wagner to demote Billy Turner. He's a starter on this line, for sure, and all this Stepianik talk is absolutely silly for a guy no one has ever seen play a single snap.
There are a number of issues here. First is that if Turner is used to back up 4 positions he is likely to play as much as a starter unless he gets hurt himself.
Secondly, keeping Jenkins long term is important. If the Packers don't move Jenkins to RT, another team will pay him and will move him to OT. Moving him to center only makes it more certain that the Packers will lose him.
Thirdly, although Stepianik is the most likely to take a starting guard position, it could just as well be someone else, even a rookie drafted this spring. The name isn't critical, being young and on a rookie contract is. Nevertheless, you don't draft a guy who tore his ACL post-season unless you see something, which the Packers apparently did. Here is what the Indiana Oline coach had to say about him:
“As a football player, he can bend. He’s loose,” Hiller said. “He’s not a big, stiff kind of guy. He’s loose in the hips and loose in the joints. He’s got good fluidity to his movement skills and all those things." “I think he fits well,” Hiller said. “He understands angles and he’s smart. He’s just got to continue to get better on the outside zone. Just watching the Packers, I know they run quite a bit of outside zone. Simon fits in. To me, because of his athletic ability and his strength, I think he can thrive in any type of scheme. I’ve coached guys who were maybe a little bit bigger and stiffer. The zone scheme, you have to have some athletic ability. It’s not just get on a track and block whatever’s on that track. There’s some concepts and combinations that you have to be able to get onto linebackers and run some combo blocks. He has that fluidity.” And everyone says Stepianik is incredibly strong and tough.
It doesnt matter what position Jenkins plays. The Packers keep players like him for at least a 2nd contract. No reason to draft and develop him and let him walk after 4 seasons regardless of position.
Re: 2021 Free Agency
Posted: 17 Apr 2021 17:26
by Yoop
YoHoChecko wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021 13:09
TheSkeptic wrote: ↑17 Apr 2021 12:08
Bak, Runyan, Patrick, Stepaniak, Jenkins
Turner backs up every position except center
Pay Jenkins whatever is necessary to keep him long term
You guys. For real. Turner is our starting RT. I don't understand this resistance/hesitance around him. He was a solid RT on one of the league's best OLines. He moved around in response to injuries and Wagner started a lot at RT, too, but we don't cut Ricky Wagner to demote Billy Turner. He's a starter on this line, for sure, and all this Stepianik talk is absolutely silly for a guy no one has ever seen play a single snap.
agreed, I've read several draft comments pre draft on Stepaniak and both said he needs work with pass pro, to wide a stance and gets pushed back, and has trouble defending his edges, DT's arm brush right around him, with comments like that I'd think he'll have to prove he's over come those tech issues, strength doesn't mean a lot if ya don't know how to use it