Packers Huddle

Interesting breakdown from 2008.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2023 09:18

Interesting breakdown from 2008.

He threw in the middle of the field!!!

Yeah I believe the middle of the field dropoff happened in 2014. The offense was just so killer that year with long strikes to score quick and if all else failed, Rodgers and Nelson had such a ridiculous connection that converting on third down was a given because all that needed to happen was Rodgers to escape the pocket, Nelson come back to Rodgers and catch the ball at the sidelines to move the chains.

In 2015 Nelson wasn't available and the production plummeted as a result because the chains didn't move on 3rd down, but the offensive passing mentality didn't adjust.

Those outside attempts look wildly low. Then I noticed it’s outside the numbers, not outside the hash marks.

Once I saw that he had 34 attempts behind the line of scrimmage “in the middle” and only 14 outside, I realized they’re either using a ton of jet sweep touch passes in 2008 (definitely not) or quick WR screens are still “in the middle” in this chart.

I think most would agree that Rodgers wanted more input than what he was allowed to give. The organization made at least some attempt to either get more feedback or minimally to try to placate Rodgers. The real question for me is if there was any tenable amount of feedback from Rodgers that would have made Rodgers feel included enough that the org would be able to accommodate based on their much greater responsibility of keeping the organization healthy. As I mentioned a few pages back, there is a possibility of greater alienation if you allow more feedback and still go a different direction.

Madcity_matt wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2023 12:31

I think most would agree that Rodgers wanted more input than what he was allowed to give. The organization made at least some attempt to either get more feedback or minimally to try to placate Rodgers. The real question for me is if there was any tenable amount of feedback from Rodgers that would have made Rodgers feel included enough that the org would be able to accommodate based on their much greater responsibility of keeping the organization healthy. As I mentioned a few pages back, there is a possibility of greater alienation if you allow more feedback and still go a different direction.

It's a catch 22. As someone who is in a management role in my company, I always strive for my employees to feel like they are heard and I encourage them to bring solutions to the table, but they have to have an understanding that not everything they bring to the table will be implemented, and in the cases where it's not implemented, they need to accept it and move forward. I even personally experienced an issue a year or two back where an employee was given the opportunity to be consulted more than other employees based on his tenure, and it was a complete disaster. Anything that didn't go his way turned into a badmouthing drama fest. Hate to say it, but Rodgers doesn't seem like the easiest to get along with as it is, so I can assume that this is why the Packers gave him the amount of say that they did. If he wanted a different coach than MLF, they probably anticipated a drama fest that they didn't want to deal with.

The issue stems from packers org treating Rodgers like “an employee” or “just another player”.

Rodgers def felt like he was above that status.

Many other organizations would agree. They would understand what life without a HOF qb is like and would do anything to keep him happy.

The packers took a different approach. Maybe they forgot what life was like without a HOF Qb. Maybe they made the right decision and can do just fine without Rodgers. Time will tell.

But this was where the problems originated. Gutey really referred to Rodgers as “the player”. Very disrespectful to a HOF QB with a ring.

imo it started to derail for Rodgers in 2017, he wasn't privy to those changes either, and I have my doubts that Gute would have been his choice for GM, it's possible Murph chose Gute because all the others where wrapped around Rodgers wants and wishes and Gute would play hard ball.

to pacify his QB Murphy opened the vault and renegotiated AR's contract with a 120 mil. raise, ever since then Rodgers has been a complainer and harder to get along with.

It's always seemed like a battle of wills between the two ever since, Rodgers wanting receiver help, and Gute giving him the middle finger salute and drafting defense.

keeping the receiver position stocked as it had been his first 5 or 6 years would have kept this offense tops in scoring and that would have been easier to do then building a defense that can hold opponents to less then 17 points per game, a offense wiht the ability to score as quickly as those first half doz years under Rodgers doesn't need a top 5 defense, league average ST's and defense would have been a very tough combo to beat, our GM's didn't just drop the ball for Rodgers, they dropped it for all of us too

Yoop wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2023 13:57

Rodgers wanting receiver help,

No evidence for this pet-theory.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2023 13:44

The issue stems from packers org treating Rodgers like “an employee” or “just another player”.

Rodgers def felt like he was above that status.

Many other organizations would agree. They would understand what life without a HOF qb is like and would do anything to keep him happy.

The packers took a different approach. Maybe they forgot what life was like without a HOF Qb. Maybe they made the right decision and can do just fine without Rodgers. Time will tell.

But this was where the problems originated. Gutey really referred to Rodgers as “the player”. Very disrespectful to a HOF QB with a ring.

Again, such a catch 22 though. Thankfully, we haven't had the inmates running the asylum because of this approach, where other franchises have culture problems all the time.

If we were some dumpster franchise like the Jets or the GM was as bad as his detractors on here claim, then I could have actually been supportive of the idea of Rodgers having some weight on the team-building decisions, and at least seeing if it would produce better results.

But for one thing, no, we are not a dumpster; we are objectively one of the better franchises in the league, and the Gute detractors have not sold me on their beliefs.

But even more than that, Rodgers's ideas sound terrible. When we had Jimmy Graham, he kept saying in post-game pressers that we needed to get the ball to him more, making him seemingly the only person who couldn't see that Graham was washed. He had that hissy fit over Jake Kumerow, so that guy would probably have been on the team forever, alongside Randall Cobb, also assured a permanent roster spot. He was ecstatic about the Sammy Watkins signing. And when given a good talent like Doubs, rather than help him along and get him good quickly so he'd have a better WR to throw to, he wanted to "cUt rEpS" for him and just keep throwing to Cobb and Watkins.

Rodgers needed to just stay in his own damn lane. Not only should Rodgers not be given a say from Gute on roster-building, which is totally outside of his job description, frankly, it was a mistake for MLF to listen to him on running the offense as much as we did, which does fall within the scope of his duties.

Drj820 wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2023 13:44

The issue stems from packers org treating Rodgers like “an employee” or “just another player”.

Rodgers def felt like he was above that status.

Many other organizations would agree. They would understand what life without a HOF qb is like and would do anything to keep him happy.

The packers took a different approach. Maybe they forgot what life was like without a HOF Qb. Maybe they made the right decision and can do just fine without Rodgers. Time will tell.

But this was where the problems originated. Gutey really referred to Rodgers as “the player”. Very disrespectful to a HOF QB with a ring.

The counter to this logic, though, is what Shanon Sharpe was saying--Rodgers speaks a lot more often in terms of "I" and openly about his accomplishments than typical HoF QBs do in such an overwhelmingly team sport.

If Gutey erred too far in the "player" direction, Rodgers too erred too far in the "above the team" direction. I think it took both of those things being true, and pretty obviously true, for the split to reach where it did.


At the end of the day everything Rodgers said had me believing that truly, he preferred for the team to make sentimental choices ahead of on-field football choices; and that was never going to find a home in a GM's office. He believed that being good to the players who gave it all for your team, to the legends of the franchise, was more important than winning Super Bowls. I believe that because he said over and over again how important it was to treat people well, how he said the "people" are the team, and how he always wanted his best friends on the team with him, versus how he almost never mentioned winning Super Bowls until he went to the Jets.

I genuinely think that while he is a competitive guy who wants to win every game while he's competing, once he won one, that box was checked for the career and he would have preferred to keep football fun and about the people and personalities, rather than about the money and cost-cutting and salary cap... all while he wanted to be the highest paid player in the league.

And that's why even though I acknowledge that Gutey erred in his early-tenure communication and management styles, I still feel Rodgers' flawed approach toward a team sport was always going to find itself at odds with any front office, because moving on from Jordy and Wood' and Sitton and Lang and James Jones and Randall Cobb... and yes, eventually from Rodgers; those are the kind of moves front offices have to make sometimes.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2023 15:51

And that's why even though I acknowledge that Gutey erred in his early-tenure communication and management styles, I still feel Rodgers' flawed approach toward a team sport was always going to find itself at odds with any front office, because moving on from Jordy and Wood' and Sitton and Lang and James Jones and Randall Cobb... and yes, eventually from Rodgers; those are the kind of moves front offices have to make sometimes.

Good examples, but I think it's critically important to separate those that fall on Ted Thompson versus those that fall on Gute. Of those, all of which I do believe soured the relationship between Rodgers and Team, Gute was responsible for exactly two of them, Nelson and Cobb. Further to that, despite the blunder, Rodgers apparently loved Jimmy Graham, so hard to argue with the trade off of overpriced vets who can't perform anymore.

Second, I think it is also important to acknowledge the segregation of duties that was put in place when Gute got the job. Murphy basically gave him the full football ops without the authority to manage, fully, the football ops. I seriously do not get why Mark Murphy is not a bigger villain in this story (fully acknowledging that, personally, I think it is solely Rodgers crying victim).

Finally, and this pisses me off more than anything because Rodgers, himself, was the poster boy for this. Front offices DO have to make these moves sometimes. Forget the fanfare and maybe the personal embarrassment, I think Rodgers primary issue is on the business side and the almighty dollar. If NFL players got guaranteed contracts, these moves would be far more palatable. Because they are not, NFL FO's are seen as these heartless bastards when they are really just doing the job they are paid to do. Rodgers had A LOT of momentum on his side to get a fully guaranteed contract back in 2018 and he pussed out, big time. Instead, Deshaun Watson sets that bar and the NFL, understandable so, ignores that as an anomaly. Does anyone really believe that happens if Aaron gets that bag?

Jets are playing with fire giving Wilson first-team reps...#rodgerswrath

APB wrote: ↑

07 Jun 2023 07:14

Jets are playing with fire giving Wilson first-team reps...#rodgerswrath

is there such a thing as first team reps for QB's in OTA's? QB's need to rotate, Wilson just like Love last year rotate in to rest the QB's arms, Wilson will be groomed just as Love was with us to hopefully take over in a couple years.

nice to see your following Wilsons progress with the Jets

One of the best Aaron Wisconsin based jerseys. I'll likely be wearing mine at the home opener versus the Saints. I'll be calling it "Aaron Day".

To me Aaron absolutely needed to shut up and play and not get invested in personnel decisions.

At the same time I feel like I understand why he did. After 2016 the team couldn’t be trusted to make the right decisions. I remember arguing with people on this board and others that the team had very little ascending talent on top of bad contracts and everyone argued with me that it was a NFCC team. But anyone with half an analytical brain saw the disaster coming with that atrocious roster.

Rodgers felt he had to take matters into his own hands. He wasn’t wrong. He needed to take control of the team because both GMs were terrible. TT towards the end of his career and Gutenbumst early in his as evidenced by his atrocious first draft and free agency class.

The problem is Rodgers personnel decisions were just as bad. But credit is deserved when recognizing still a weakened or that someone is doing a bad job.

NCF wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2023 18:49

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

05 Jun 2023 15:51

And that's why even though I acknowledge that Gutey erred in his early-tenure communication and management styles, I still feel Rodgers' flawed approach toward a team sport was always going to find itself at odds with any front office, because moving on from Jordy and Wood' and Sitton and Lang and James Jones and Randall Cobb... and yes, eventually from Rodgers; those are the kind of moves front offices have to make sometimes.

Second, I think it is also important to acknowledge the segregation of duties that was put in place when Gute got the job. Murphy basically gave him the full football ops without the authority to manage, fully, the football ops. I seriously do not get why Mark Murphy is not a bigger villain in this story (fully acknowledging that, personally, I think it is solely Rodgers crying victim).

Could not agree more regarding Murphy’s role in the dysfunction.

As someone who badly wanted Rodgers gone after 2021 season because I saw no path to the Super Bowl with him at QB and who vehemently disagrees with his anti-Belichik sentimentality over production approach to the roster, I have no issues with all the criticism Rodgers has gotten and will surely get now that he is an ex-Packer from the fan base.

I am convinced that Gutey was interested in either moving on from Rodgers or taking him down a peg ever since the much discussed interest in drafting Deshone Kizer in 2017 (and yes I’m aware that Ted Thompson was the GM on paper during that draft). Gutey then traded for Kizer shortly after he assumed his GM duties.

Then there was significant buzz about Drew Lock in the 2019 draft and the 2020 Love selection. I firmly believe Gutey was not in the kowtow to Rodgers camp from the get go and would have traded him in 2022, at the latest, if he had the power to do so.

I also do not believe Gutey would have given Rodgers a new, expensive contract last offseason if Murphy was not in charge of such decisions.

I can only surmise that the relative lack of criticism directed towards Murphy is due to the fact he is still a member of the organization and or the discomfort some fans have with rebuking the person who is ultimately in control of the franchise.

Personally, July 2025 cannot arrive soon enough when it comes to
my beloved Green Bay Packers.

Rodgers and Lafleur took this team to 39-9 in lafleurs first 3 season, thats why Murphy gave Rodgers 120 mil early 2018 to stick around, but with Guty looking to replace him with Kizer, it's a damn good thing Murphy over ruled that idiocy.

everyone is now using hindsight to say we shouldn't have extended Rodgers a year ago, but that was done prior to losing Adams, and Adams with Lazard and Watson and Doubs it is impossible to say we couldn't compete for the SB, specially with a RB duo that produces 2500 yrd seasons, a defense loaded with talent, and a new ST's cord.

nahhhhhh, I think Guty was in on extending Rodgers, he'd be a complete fool not to, and Kizer was brought in because we actually did need a back up QB, however the key receiver wanted out, and he was the lynch key player that would help all the rest do better, and his production was sorely missed, along with the dysfunction with OL and the defense &%$@ the bed, Rodgers simply couldn't make up for those issues, and at times it looked as though he gave up trying.

the solution was to bring in higher quality receiver or two prior to the last 2 years of Tae Adams so the offense could continue to produce with Rodgers, everyone seems to argue against this, I think mostly to defend Guty, but that rational can't be over looked.

as to Murphy, I think his Loyalty to Ted stopped him from asking Ted to resign or demote himself, so much came to a head in 017 and 018, first the firing of long time DC Capers, the demotion of Ted and the promotion of Gutekunst, then the firing of McCarthy and hiring of Lafleur, and through all of this trying to appease a pissed off Rodgers, in all I consider it a success that we did as well as we did, last season just had to many things go wrong.

hopefully we can replace Murphy with another sharp minded team manager.

Kizer was brought in for Mike McMurthy. Rodgers's injury in 2017 exposed MM for not having a real offense, and MM tried to blame it on the backup QB situation being bad. It also allowed him to ship Damarious Randall out of town, who MM didn't like.

But also the FO was amenable to it because they overrate the QB position. It's this tired idea about how even when they had Favre, they still had good QBs. Hasselbeck! Brooks! Brunell! Warner!

Hundley actually outplayed Kizer but they doubled down on the move, dealt Hundley and made Kizer QB2. Later that year they finally realized, a season too late, that MM was the guy that had to go.