Packers Huddle

Yoop wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 09:24

I think a lot of the angst for him is because we used slot 22 to draft him and many thought it was a reach, including me

He was a reach by all accounts but I don't care about that. I was actually pretty damn excited to have a LB with that pedigree and athleticism. I have argued for years that if that hits, it is well worth spending a 1st round pick at that position. The hesitancy and lack of instincts have been so damning though. I want to see this consistency that you seem to, but the only thing I see is consistent inconsistency.

musclestang wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 09:13

Quay has is mistakes, that's been obvious. Quay has also made plays that are overshadowed and many played exactly how they want that get lost in the increasing yells to get rid of him. Wilson nor McDuffie are breaking up that pass play later in the game and that was a huge play.

How many plays can you say that Quay Walker is truly making plays?

What we saw on Sunday was his only pass defense of the year.
He has 4 TFLs on the season.
He has 1.5 sacks on the season.

Tackles within 2 yards of LoS:
Bears - 1
Lions - 1 (2 at 3 yards)
Jaguars - 0 (OUT)
Texans - 1
Cardinals - 3
Rams - 1 (1 at 3 yards)
Vikings - 3 (1 at 3 yards)
Titans - 2
Colts - 0 (2 at 3 yards)
Eagles - 4 (1 at 3 yards)


24 plays the entire year where you can say he really made a play and that his big mistakes are overshadowing those 24 plays? 24 plays in 532 snaps?

Not even looking into the tackles here are the stats for our other linebackers:
Cooper - 2 PDs, 5 TFLs, 2.5 sacks, 1 FF, 1 FR (289 snaps)
McDuffie - 2 PDs, 1 TFL, .5 sack (412 snaps)
Wilson - 2 PDs, 7 TFLs, 2 sacks, 1 FF (243 snaps)

I’m not saying he’s been a stud. He hesitates and misses too often. But mcduffie isn’t better. Wilson has made some huge plays in very limited action. I’m a fan of his. But I also see him get swallowed and beaten in limited action too.

Tackles made at 2 yards or less (3 yards in parenthesis)
Eric Wilson
Eagles - 4 (1 for 3 yards)
Colts - 0
Titans - 0
Vikings - 0 (1 for 3 yards)
Rams - 0
Cardinals - 1
Texans - 5 (1 for 3 yards)
Jaguars - 4
Lions - 1 (1 for 3 yards)
Bears - 1

Edgerrin Cooper
Eagles - 2
Colts - 0
Titans - 2
Vikings - 2
Rams - 3
Cardinals - 2
Texans - 3
Jaguars - 4
Lions - 2
Bears - 3 (1 for 3 yards)

Isaiah McDuffie
Eagles - 3
Colts - 0
Titans - 4 (1 for 3 yards)
Vikings - 0 (1 for 3 yards)
Rams - 2 (1 for 3 yards)
Cardinals - 0 (1 for 3 yards)
Texans - 2 (1 for 3 yards)
Jaguars - 2 (2 for 3 yards)
Lions - 4
Bears - 2

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 09:37

Yoop wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 09:02

simple, he's performed more consistently than anyone else at ILB, every game he ranks top 5 on defense

Top 5 by what measure?

by tackles and what we see of PFF grades.

Let's look at this as impact plays per snap (3 yard or less tackles (includes sacks and TFLs), PDs, FFs, FRs)

Quay Walker - 24 in 532 snaps, 1 impact play every 22.17 snaps
Eric Wilson - 23 in 243 snaps, 1 impact play every 10.57 snaps
Edgerrin Cooper - 28 in 289 snaps, 1 impact play every 10.32 snaps
Isaiah McDuffie - 28 in 412 snaps, 1 impact play every 14.71 snaps

Quay Walker is our least impactful LB and it isn't really close. Couple that with his really bad/lazy play and he should not be starting.

Yoop wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 10:59

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 09:37

Yoop wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 09:02

simple, he's performed more consistently than anyone else at ILB, every game he ranks top 5 on defense

Top 5 by what measure?

by tackles and what we see of PFF grades.

https://ftnfantasy.com/nfl/2024-linebac ... -midseason

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 11:08

Let's look at this as impact plays per snap (3 yard or less tackles (includes sacks and TFLs), PDs, FFs, FRs)

Quay Walker - 24 in 532 snaps, 1 impact play every 22.17 snaps
Eric Wilson - 23 in 243 snaps, 1 impact play every 10.57 snaps
Edgerrin Cooper - 28 in 289 snaps, 1 impact play every 10.32 snaps
Isaiah McDuffie - 28 in 412 snaps, 1 impact play every 14.71 snaps

Quay Walker is our least impactful LB and it isn't really close. Couple that with his really bad/lazy play and he should not be starting.

your numbers don't even match your stats

just counting them

Wilson=16, not 23
Cooper 23 not 28
McDuffie 19 not 28

and WAlker wears the green dot, if any of these 3 were better Hafely would have them do it, and the success for some of the others relied on scheming them for success and help from Walker

Yoop wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 10:59

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 09:37

Yoop wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 09:02

simple, he's performed more consistently than anyone else at ILB, every game he ranks top 5 on defense

Top 5 by what measure?

by tackles and what we see of PFF grades.

OK, that would make some sense... but PFF doesn't show that and his tackle stats are very middle of the pack.

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 11:31

Yoop wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 10:59

NCF wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 09:37

Top 5 by what measure?

by tackles and what we see of PFF grades.

OK, that would make some sense... but PFF doesn't show that and his tackle stats are very middle of the pack.

to me not much about Walker has been reason enough to draft him when we did, course that can be said about a few of Guty's first-rounders (LVN immediately comes to mind, how about Gary)

Walker was a well-thought-of college prospect pre draft, heck there are hardly any negative comments, I still think he is better than what we've seen, again the comment that he is pro active is a pretty good description, same with afraid to make a mistake.
often it seems IMO that players are over coached and as a result, we see less instinctive play, this is probably a result of D&D, how often have we seen guys like Cooper take a step back in year two, or in this case Walker in year 3 under a new defensive scheme.
Walker is prototypical MLB, I think we are seeing growing pains, also think the coaches will let him play through this hoping for improvement, we took him to high to discard what he was as a college player, jmo

Yoop wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 11:25

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 11:08

Let's look at this as impact plays per snap (3 yard or less tackles (includes sacks and TFLs), PDs, FFs, FRs)

Quay Walker - 24 in 532 snaps, 1 impact play every 22.17 snaps
Eric Wilson - 23 in 243 snaps, 1 impact play every 10.57 snaps
Edgerrin Cooper - 28 in 289 snaps, 1 impact play every 10.32 snaps
Isaiah McDuffie - 28 in 412 snaps, 1 impact play every 14.71 snaps

Quay Walker is our least impactful LB and it isn't really close. Couple that with his really bad/lazy play and he should not be starting.

your numbers don't even match your stats

just counting them

Wilson=16, not 23
Cooper 23 not 28
McDuffie 19 not 28

Wilson - 20 tackles of 3 or less yards (16 for 2 or less), 2 PDs , 1 FF - 23 impact plays
Cooper - 24 tackles of 3 or less yards (23 for 2 or less), 2 PDs, 1 FF, 1 FR - 28 impact plays
McDuffie - 26 tackles of 3 or less yards (19 for 2 or less), 2 PDs - 28 impact plays
Walker - 23 tackles of 3 or less yards (16 for 2 or less), 1 PD - 24 impact plays

My numbers exactly match my stats and the stats kept by the NFL. This is what I wrote:

Tackles made at 2 yards or less (3 yards in parenthesis)

Quay Walker is our least impactful Linebacker.

Our most impactful day for our linebackers was against the Texans. Not a coincidence.

As I have already mentioned, Quay should be an OLB. His speed and size is perfect for that position. It’s become obvious he does not have what it takes to play MLB.

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 11:08

Let's look at this as impact plays per snap (3 yard or less tackles (includes sacks and TFLs), PDs, FFs, FRs)

Quay Walker - 24 in 532 snaps, 1 impact play every 22.17 snaps
Eric Wilson - 23 in 243 snaps, 1 impact play every 10.57 snaps
Edgerrin Cooper - 28 in 289 snaps, 1 impact play every 10.32 snaps
Isaiah McDuffie - 28 in 412 snaps, 1 impact play every 14.71 snaps

Quay Walker is our least impactful LB and it isn't really close. Couple that with his really bad/lazy play and he should not be starting.

I can't argue the stats, but I will make an argument that it doesn't provide a full picture. McDuffie gets turned around often and is out of a lot of plays completely. He's really not that good overall and is limited. He's Ok in a pinch.

Wilson has had some huge plays but half the snaps. Because he too is limited, but seems to be really effective when they use him selectively to do what he does best. 2 things, I'd bet that rate goes way down if he's a down to down guy and never comes off the field and I think he's a failed test away from suspension. I'm not comfortable banking on him.

Cooper deserves more snaps, let the rookie make some mistakes, he's already what Walkers measurables say he should be too. Cooper is also being used in certain situations to set him up for success and work him in. Balancing exposing his inexperience with his playmaking ability. I'm excited for this kid.

Walker is going to be given more opportunity to "get it" before they start sitting him but if he's not getting as we find ourselves heading into crunch time i'm not going to be surprised to see his snap count go down. His window is getting much smaller this time of year I think.

musclestang wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 13:08

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 11:08

Let's look at this as impact plays per snap (3 yard or less tackles (includes sacks and TFLs), PDs, FFs, FRs)

Quay Walker - 24 in 532 snaps, 1 impact play every 22.17 snaps
Eric Wilson - 23 in 243 snaps, 1 impact play every 10.57 snaps
Edgerrin Cooper - 28 in 289 snaps, 1 impact play every 10.32 snaps
Isaiah McDuffie - 28 in 412 snaps, 1 impact play every 14.71 snaps

Quay Walker is our least impactful LB and it isn't really close. Couple that with his really bad/lazy play and he should not be starting.

I can't argue the stats, but I will make an argument that it doesn't provide a full picture. McDuffie gets turned around often and is out of a lot of plays completely. He's really not that good overall and is limited. He's Ok in a pinch.

Wouldn't you say Walker gets turned around often and is out of a lot of plays completely? See Bears TD run as just 1 of many examples of that. Walker is not limited athletically, but it's hard to say that he is any better than McDuffie right now, even with though McDuffie is more limited athletically.

Wilson has had some huge plays but half the snaps. Because he too is limited, but seems to be really effective when they use him selectively to do what he does best. 2 things, I'd bet that rate goes way down if he's a down to down guy and never comes off the field and I think he's a failed test away from suspension. I'm not comfortable banking on him.

Eric Wilson had a 9.48 RAS. He is not too limited. He has also done some really good things. There is only one way to find out if he can be effective with more snaps... give him more snaps.

Cooper deserves more snaps, let the rookie make some mistakes, he's already what Walkers measurables say he should be too. Cooper is also being used in certain situations to set him up for success and work him in. Balancing exposing his inexperience with his playmaking ability. I'm excited for this kid.

Can hardly be any worse than Walker even with the inexperience.

Walker is going to be given more opportunity to "get it" before they start sitting him but if he's not getting as we find ourselves heading into crunch time i'm not going to be surprised to see his snap count go down. His window is getting much smaller this time of year I think.

100% he will get all the opportunity because he was a 1st round pick. There is just very little at this point that points to him deserving many more opportunities.

It is just VERY hard to say that our other 3 linebackers aren't playing better than Quay Walker.

I guess i'm not going to argue too much that Walker is way above McD in his play currently. i just think McD is where he's always going to be. There is a potential for Walker to greatly exceed that. that said, his time is running out for potential to keep him on the field. Sooner or later "potential" gets sent to the bench and then out of the league.

Wilson makes me nervous because i think Wilson has a lot of help right now behind the scenes and it's not supplements. he would be the one to take more playing time I suspect though moving forward if Walker can't get it right.

I don't see Cooper as his competition for playing time though, I think they want them both on the field together, but yes, He needs more snaps and deserves them.

musclestang wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 13:28

Wilson makes me nervous because i think Wilson has a lot of help right now behind the scenes and it's not supplements.

Where is this coming from?

Pckfn23 wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 13:35

musclestang wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2024 13:28

Wilson makes me nervous because i think Wilson has a lot of help right now behind the scenes and it's not supplements.

Where is this coming from?

just my thought is all